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This Is Interesting

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David Mathis
This Is Interesting
on Jul 29, 2015 at 7:39:23 am

Took a look at this: https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/378/10898

Could other stuff be available the old fashion way? Love to hear your thoughts.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: This Is Interesting - SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 9:57:33 am

Hey David,

No, this is another David trying his best to make you believe that the two products in his graphic are identical - they are not. One is "Acrobat only" and the other is "Acrobat DC".

One is sold as seen with no upgrades.

The other is an eco-system of cloud services including apps that works on IOS and Android + a number of innovative features for e-signing and storing documents.

One should keep in mind that the full Adobe CC package comes with Adobe DC as standard - so don't rush out to get it if you're already on CC.

However, as Acrobat continues to be a stand alone product with no need to become an integral part of a design/video/creative workflow. And that many of the corporate clients, law-firms, banks and other financial institutions using it, will never for security reasons allow any third-party software to store their products in another cloud, it makes sense to continue offer it under a permanent license.

Lightroom 6, Photoshop Elements 13 & Adobe Premiere Elements 13 can also be purchased outright. So there isn't really a sudden revolution going on at Adobe.

Obviously, there is nothing wrong with continuing to request Adobe CC to also be produced as a permanent license - However, if it slows down development and takes away the improved functionality between the various apps, then I can't see the benefit for anyone who is currently an Adobe customer.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Morten Ranmar
Re: This Is Interesting - SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 3:33:08 pm

Perpetual license or Cloud based, Adobe will continue to force outputs of their video applications up to NAB and IBC. This is why we continue to receive buggy updates, and why their argument for independant Cloud delivery does not hold water.

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC2014, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 4:03:04 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "Adobe will continue to force outputs of their video applications up to NAB and IBC. This is why we continue to receive buggy updates, and why their argument for independant Cloud delivery does not hold water."

Morten, I'm not sure how you can connect the timing of what Adobe demonstrated at NAB, with what they released 2 months past NAB? And neither has anything to do with cloud or not cloud delivery.

Adobe is spending more money on R&D, which is evidently if you compare the amount of code in CC2014 v CC2015 - and is also evidently in how fast the initial fixes started to appear after the main release of some the CC apps.

BTW: Would you rather have that Adobe told you nothing and did no marketing? Or would you rather wait for Christmas to come around and Santa drop you a CD-Rom through the chimney? There is two major shows in the calendar for showing tools to the video, broadcast and film production community - I would be deeply concerned if Adobe showed up with nothing, or like some; don't show at all.

In any case the latest version of CC is currently stable on my system whilst I'm hacking my way through a 3 camera production.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Morten Ranmar
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 4:24:05 pm

of course Adobe should innovate as well as keep us informed - but as they announce the new versions up to these events again and again, it forces them to whip their development team to deliver shortly after - and that is why we continue to see buggy software (and this does not only apply to Adobe).

I have personally stayed of the 2015 update until now, and am enjoying those great color features.

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC2014, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8


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Bill Davis
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 4:54:59 pm

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "There is two major shows in the calendar for showing tools to the video, broadcast and film production community - I would be deeply concerned if Adobe showed up with nothing, or like some; don't show at all."

Software development and delivery has changed 180 degrees over the past 10 years. It's ALL on-line now which changes the game from "It has to be perfect before we press the disks" to "Lets try to get it right, but we can't efficiently test for all the possible flaws until the software gets out to the customer base - so we'll fix the details as we get feedback."

That's as true for Apple as it is of Adobe.

And it has NOTHING to do with whether the software is sold via subscription or one-pay.

The cost of distributing software revision has been driven comparatively close to zero. (support staff training and manual revision et al, excepted) Trade show participation (or the lack thereof) change that not at all.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 5:26:10 pm

[Bill Davis] "Software development and delivery has changed 180 degrees over the past 10 years. It's ALL on-line now which changes the game from "It has to be perfect before we press the disks" to "Lets try to get it right, but we can't efficiently test for all the possible flaws until the software gets out to the customer base - so we'll fix the details as we get feedback." "

Internet delivery giveth, and Internet delivery taketh away. ;)

My memory might be rusty but I think the last two generations of video game consoles (PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, PS4, Xbox One and Wii U) all had day 1 patches waiting for users as soon as they got their brand new consoles home from the store. Around Christmas time I remember reading some articles suggesting that if you bought a gadget for someone (be it a tablet or a video game console) that you open it, download any patches and then wrap it so that when the gift is opened it's ready to go.


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Tim Wilson
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 5:40:07 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "all had day 1 patches waiting for users as soon as they got their brand new consoles home from the store."

Also true for my television, Blu-ray player, and network-connected home theater receiver. :-)

Flip on the power button for the first time, and a screen comes up that says, "There is new software available for your device," with buttons that say do it now or remind me later. Ignoring it not an option, and the intent was unmistakably, "Do it now, before you do anything else."


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Gary Huff
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 5:45:25 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Also true for my television, Blu-ray player, and network-connected home theater receiver. :-)"

Yup.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 5:55:24 pm

[Tim Wilson] "
Also true for my television, Blu-ray player, and network-connected home theater receiver. :-)"


Yeah, I still remember it feeling odd the first time I downloaded an update for my TV. Welcome to the future!


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Tim Wilson
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 6:10:39 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I still remember it feeling odd the first time I downloaded an update for my TV. Welcome to the future!"

The future will arrive when we download a virus to our TV.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 7:07:20 pm

Funny - there haven't been any updates to my CRT television available...guess I don't have my antenna pointed in the right direction...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Bret Williams
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 9:32:29 pm

No updates. I think you missed the recall though.


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Charlie Austin
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 8:22:01 pm

[Tim Wilson] "The future will arrive when we download a virus to our TV."

This, while tangentially off-topic, seems apropos... Vizio IPO plan shows how its TVs track what you're watching. :-0

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Mathis
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 11:06:15 pm

Tim, looks like we are at that pint already. I believed is called something like Reality TV, maybe started with Jerry Springer, who knows.


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Bill Davis
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 9:38:17 pm

With my most recent "internet able" TV, it sometimes takes up to 30 seconds before it will let me change a freeking channel upon startup. I presume it's checking out the zillion internet connections it has to manage.
Three steps forward, five steps backwards.
Sheesh.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 29, 2015 at 9:39:36 pm

[Bill Davis] "
And it has NOTHING to do with whether the software is sold via subscription or one-pay.

The cost of distributing software revision has been driven comparatively close to zero. (support staff training and manual revision et al, excepted) Trade show participation (or the lack thereof) change that not at all."


I agree with all of that, but the post that you part quoted me from was in response to someone else who was using trade shows as an example.

However, do not under-estimate the power of trade-shows, as much as they still attract the larger clients - the ones where the reward for executives and key people is to fly half-way round the planet to look at new "toys". Those clients are also the ones that may be equipping for 50 work-stations, network and software, rather than your small mum & pop garage business with 1/2 a work-station and what-ever software that will do the work.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Bill Davis
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 30, 2015 at 12:47:19 am

[Mads Nybo Jørgensen] "However, do not under-estimate the power of trade-shows, as much as they still attract the larger clients - the ones where the reward for executives and key people is to fly half-way round the planet to look at new "toys". Those clients are also the ones that may be equipping for 50 work-stations, network and software, rather than your small mum & pop garage business with 1/2 a work-station and what-ever software that will do the work."

We should neither under OR over estimate them. I personally LOVE trade shows. I'm a 25 year veteran of NAB and have attended half a dozen others. (Bummed I can't figure out a financial justification to go to IBC in September!) But I also know that they are a MUCH different experience than when I started attending them in the 80s.

And the personal networking landscape is different as well. In fact I got a private email today from the creative director of a major US city office for one of the top 10 ad agencies in the world asking if I could recommend any X editors in his city - they are looking to add to their current staff. I'm not sure I'd bet that that creative director goes to NAB. Might. But it wouldn't surprise me if he just surfs the internet for ideas about creative tools and techniques.

Trade shows have been under pressure to change for decades now. The internet makes product information instantly accessible and travel and lodging is quite expensive relative to sitting in your office and surfing the net for ideas and product opinions.

And so it goes.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Tim Wilson
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 30, 2015 at 1:30:49 am

[Bill Davis] "The internet makes product information instantly accessible"

Far be it from me to downplay the value of information derived from the web, but among the things that are now instantly available are reports from people attending trade shows, and vendors streaming demos from their booths. :-)


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Bill Davis
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 30, 2015 at 5:35:04 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Far be it from me to downplay the value of information derived from the web, but among the things that are now instantly available are reports from people attending trade shows, and vendors streaming demos from their booths. :-)"

Absolutely. I've produced and hosted some of those very videos over the last few years.

But pervasive high speed connectivity in most developed countries is still putting pressure on the trade show business model. If I can sit at my computer and get the information, then my justification for the travel time and expense increasingly needs to be tied to more than just information gathering.

I'm delighted that attendance at NAB this year was (iirc), modestly UP after some years of decline.

And I hope the trend continues.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 30, 2015 at 8:42:58 am

[Bill Davis] "We should neither under OR over estimate them. I personally LOVE trade shows. I'm a 25 year veteran of NAB and have attended half a dozen others. (Bummed I can't figure out a financial justification to go to IBC in September!) But I also know that they are a MUCH different experience than when I started attending them in the 80s."

I used to do the yearly trek from UK to NAB. Found a few clients there too, as I suddenly wasn't surrounded by all my local freelance competition. However, I stopped video/broadcast trade-shows a long time ago as there was more mileage in going to other exhibitions such as TV Connect, e-commerce and apps world.

However (& Tim W can possible give a better account of this), in the background of shows like NAB and IBC you have a number of meetings/seminars taking place where local and international organizations meets to discuss working practices and certification of standards + future developments. This is in part what attracts the manufacturers and the press too to participate. So suddenly these shows grows into an unstoppable behemoth with an ants nest of activity.

Back in the late 1990's, at a time where a basic tape to tape online editing suite did not get out of bed for less than $150,000, some of the larger manufacturers would spend upwards of $25 Million just for the NAB show. Part of the cost was off-set by all global senior staff and R&D flying to have meetings with one another in one place, but also be accessible to global client base, who too would be present. Although the internet and lower cost equipment have taken some of the "fun" out of that, the shows can still attract exhibitors and visitors.

Back to Morten's original notion about whether an Adobe needs to push so hard for getting as many features as possible ready for NAB and IBC. My thought is yes, as those trade shows in the mind the professional community is no different than Christmas and Black Friday - we are all suckers for seeing what is new, and if we like it, purchase it too. If all of the worlds major broadcasters and the press is situated in the same space, then it makes perfect sense to give them something to talk about.

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Jim Wiseman
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 30, 2015 at 5:53:49 pm

I stopped going to NAB when the web reporting and reviews got better, and my knees got worse. Went for many years before that, though. Was a great place to sell Avids, and to meet with production clients.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Tim Wilson
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 30, 2015 at 6:51:33 pm

[Jim Wiseman] " Was a great place to sell Avids, and to meet with production clients."

Those two to me are the primary values. Making deals and meeting people. Both of those are 10000% legit, and can't be done any other way.

Somebody invoked my name earlier about the dealmaking at NAB. I have no way to verify this, but my hunch is that there's more a lot money being made in head-to-head meetings among execs in suites (ie, not group demos to users) than on the floor.

But what drives those meetings in the first place is the trade show. "We're both gonna be there, let's get together." And there's an impetus for both parties to close the deal sooner rather than later. Even if it's not at the show, it's "When can you come to New York?" I've never left a show with vague plans.

(Not wanting to suggest that I ever made any deals at Avid. Those ppl wisely kept me locked out of the room. They'd tell me the meeting was in one hotel when it was really in another hotel across town. But I knew some guys who knew some guys.)

Same thing with meeting people. Speaking respectfully to what happens inside the room at trade show user group meetings (where I presented more times than I can count), the most important part of the event is what happens in the lobby. Like the show itself, it's a good hub to connect to a lot of people that you'd otherwise not be able to fit into the schedule.

But even for people who don't have deals to close or a bunch of people to meet, I think that, increasingly, most people will get a lot more out of the show by spending less time on the floor. Signal to noise ratio is dialed almost entirely up to noise. Sessions, seminars, all that kind of stuff, a lot of the best of it free...with the same benefits of seeing cool gear and meeting new friends.

So yeah, there's my NAB Pro Tip: stay the hell off the show floor. LOL THAT's the stuff you can go back to your hotel room and stream instead of wasting your precious time on it when you're in town. LOL


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Jim Wiseman
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 31, 2015 at 4:47:10 am

The best stuff at NAB happens in the hotel suites.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Mads Nybo Jørgensen
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 31, 2015 at 7:40:05 am

[Jim Wiseman] "The best stuff at NAB happens in the hotel suites."

My imagination is running wild ;-)

All the Best
Mads

@madsvid, London, UK
Check out my other hangouts:
Twitter: @madsvid
http://mads-thinkingoutloud.blogspot.co.uk


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Mitch Ives
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 30, 2015 at 10:05:27 pm

[Bill Davis] "Software development and delivery has changed 180 degrees over the past 10 years. It's ALL on-line now which changes the game from "It has to be perfect before we press the disks" to "Lets try to get it right, but we can't efficiently test for all the possible flaws until the software gets out to the customer base - so we'll fix the details as we get feedback." "

I think you're right Bill. However, I'm not convinced the "will fix it in the next downloadable file" is necessarily a better approach for us users? :-)

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Andrew Kimery
Re: This Is Interesting - MORE SPOILER ALERT :-)
on Jul 30, 2015 at 10:19:47 pm

[Mitch Ives] "I think you're right Bill. However, I'm not convinced the "will fix it in the next downloadable file" is necessarily a better approach for us users? :-)"

It's not, but it's the world we currently live in. It's the old 'Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two' routine. Well, consumers certainly vote with their wallets and they like Cheap. And given the nature of the Internet and the desire for instant gratification, Fast is a no brainer as well. So once again, Good gets the short end of the stick. ;)


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