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Resolve 12 Pros and Cons

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Morten Ranmar
Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 28, 2015 at 7:35:15 pm

After some initial testing with Resolve 12, here are some of the Pros and Cons:

Pros:
- Nice tidy layout, and I love the easy expand- and collapsible side panels.
- Great to have Ingest, Edit, Color and delivery in same application.
- Editing features are nice and simple.
- Audio FX actually have an option for great intuitive interfaces.
- Great performance in the color module compared to for example Speedgrade.
- Bypassing grades in Color module is reflected in Edit module.
- Lots of delivery codecs and clean output.
- Has only crashed a single time.

Cons:
- Edit performance is still not totally up to Par with FCPX and Premiere (but getting there).
- Not possible to create Timeines with different settings in same project.
- Timeline keyframe editor expands strange, and is not intuitive to use.
- Playback Render management is crude.
- Only few built in video effects.
- Time remapping has bad performance.
- No OMF export (guess it's a dinosaur).
- I find the way Looks are saved and applied a little confusing.

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC2014, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8


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David Powell
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 28, 2015 at 8:06:11 pm

Does it allow for multiple timelines to be opened at once?


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Eric Santiago
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 28, 2015 at 8:42:40 pm

Not at once but you can toggle from one to the other similar to FCPX.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 28, 2015 at 11:58:47 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Not at once but you can toggle from one to the other similar to FCPX."

I know it's the same - timeline at a time - setup in avid, but pancaking timelines in premiere, with the way you can set it up, is a solid workflow if you're skimming for b-roll or selects string-outs for a music based edit.

the ability to scrub selects in context of your edit without actually shutting that edit down, part of me is genuinely surprised more people aren't irritated by not having that. For the stuff it works for, it's deadly serious kit. It works in spades. Any editing system that can only show one timeline at a go is, on some level, missing a real trick.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Powell
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 6:01:04 am

Its extremely annoying that I can't do it in X. Avid allows source side sequence loading in the monitor which inherit the markers. So functionally you can do the same thing, though its not a stack. As of CC 2014, the marker targeting or lack thereof wasted too much time to make the pancake function a net gain for me. Or at least if felt that way.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 11:06:58 am

General question:

Are there plug-ins that can get color correction in close to Resolve? I would rather eliminate the roundtrip altogether and stay in X.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 12:19:42 pm

Color correction plug-ins for X? A ton. If you want something with wheels, then Hawaiki Color, Yanobox Moods, Color Finale, Film Convert and Colorista III.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tony West
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 1:17:24 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "I would rather eliminate the roundtrip altogether and stay in X."

I would also Scott. I think a lot of people would. I think that's the whole point behind Resolve's move in the first place.

As more and more people stay in their chosen NLE and use the grading tools right inside there (or plugins) in there, Resolve becomes more and more irrelevant.

That is........UNLESS............you become your own NLE.

I thought it was ironic that in one of the videos that was posted on here, the guy that was demoing it said something like"we want you to stay inside this program for everything"

I'm sure that's the goal of all of these NLEs

I know it would be my goal if I ran the zoo.

Once you go out you may not come back : )


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 3:39:04 pm

I get the feeling BMD is spreading itself thin. Why make an NLE? That's like becoming another craft brewery. Too many already.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Walter Soyka
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 3:49:37 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "I get the feeling BMD is spreading itself thin. Why make an NLE?"

Resolve was already really close to being an NLE. They already had the hardest part down as core functionality for colorists: an mutable timeline representation of the edit. The rest is (relatively) easy.


[Scott Witthaus] "That's like becoming another craft brewery. Too many already."

Competition and choice are good, with beer and with software.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 5:49:55 pm
Last Edited By Ricardo Marty on Jul 29, 2015 at 5:52:04 pm

If you read the resolve12 press release you get a feeling that they are out to grab adobe by the neck. i think its their driving motive.

ricardo marty


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 30, 2015 at 12:56:05 am

[Ricardo Marty] "If you read the resolve12 press release you get a feeling that they are out to grab adobe by the neck. "

Well... maybe. BMD has been on the move to become the next big tv/video company - a la Sony, GVG, RCA, etc. - for quite awhile. Grant Petty has pointedly said he hates the subscription model. A lot of his product moves have been to open the industry by lowering the cost of entry. So this is all consistent with those goals.

And yes, Resolve was pretty close already. Ultimately every NLE can or does have good color correction tools, so moving a color correction tool more into editing makes sense. Unfortunately many editors don't have the slightest idea how to do color correction. It's not that they can't twiddle the controls, but rather they don't really know what to do to get the effect they desire. It's a specialty and that's even more true when you have a complex tool like Resolve. The danger is devaluing the skill set.

Ironically a lot of effort is going into make better "online" editing tools for finishing, but very little towards make better "offline" (i.e. creative) editing tools. Apple is the exception with FCP X. It's one of the things that Hollywood editors have pointed out to Avid as well, when it comes to product development.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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James Ewart
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 10, 2015 at 5:31:19 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Unfortunately many editors don't have the slightest idea how to do color correction. It's not that they can't twiddle the controls, but rather they don't really know what to do to get the effect they desire."

I didn't know you knew me that well Oliver!


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 3:54:35 pm

You are changing the subject of the post.

But to answer your question it does make sense to have editing and color in the same application.
Conforming through EDL or round-tripping both introduce problems, that can be avoided in an application that can do both. How many times have you not needed to go back and fix some editing - even after you thought the edit was ready for grading? In resolve you can simply disable all grades, go back and do your fix in editing mode, and you don't loose a single grade or any real time performance.

That said, BM still needs to do some optimisation for playback - but they are slowly getting there.

Then again there is the question that has been brought up about how BM can maintain a useful income from giving away the software. At some point they will be forced to make us pay...

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC2014, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 4:41:14 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "Then again there is the question that has been brought up about how BM can maintain a useful income from giving away the software. At some point they will be forced to make us pay..."

The answer to that question is that they sell hardware. BM I/O devices are the only ones that work with Resolve, the $30,000 Resolve panel probably has a really nice profit margin, and they give away copies of Resolve as an incentive to buy some of their cameras. The day Resolve supports non-BM I/O devices is the day that the free version goes away.

I do think there are a couple of debatable questions though.

1. What is the long term impact on software development (and monetization) if the current business model trends of free* (low/no cost but requires first party hardware), freemium, ad supported, etc., continue?

2. Where is the right 'balance' for all the features people say they want in an NLE? If an NLE had all the features of AE, ProTools and Baselight built-in would it really make people happy? Or would people complain that it was a bloated, overly complicated mess and that the NLE maker should focus less on endlessly expanding functionality and more on refining/improving core functionality?

I think the best situation is to have plugins to get better-than-default functionality and then work on better integration with other apps for when you really need all the power/features of standalone apps. This has obviously been Adobe's route the past few years with DynmaicLink (AE) and DirectLink (SpeedGrade) though it seems like they've backtracked some on the SG integration in CC2015 (which is unfortunately, IMO).


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Tim Wilson
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 6:44:20 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "the $30,000 Resolve panel probably has a really nice profit margin"

It's actually incredibly narrow. Da Vinci (using their old spelling) was monetized almost entirely through software.

Grant Petty is alllll about slicing margins, which is why he could drop the price of that massively expensive software to a freemium model and still cover his costs. As a private company, he can spread costs across the entire company.

But this is why the price of the panel hasn't dropped. Because it can't.

Contrast this with the Teranex converters. Grant was able to take a $90,000 box, add features, reduce the size, make it quieter, AND drop the price to $1995 (yes, a drop of $82,000) and still make a profit because, after the initial, very expensive development of a Teranex converter had paid for itself, the thing was damn near nothing BUT margin.

What exasperates Blackmagic's competitors in both hardware and software is that they can't charge that little and cover their costs. Their businesses are built around maintaining margin, and Grant's is somehow based on obliterating them.

So the idea that Blackmagic is driving down prices is overstated. The other guys have limits that they simply won't go below, and limits to the pace of what they've always known, that the price that anyone charges for anything has to come down eventually.

Unless it's something that already has margins so tiny that Grant Petty doesn't feel able to nuke them.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 7:11:20 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Da Vinci (using their old spelling) was monetized almost entirely through software."

I'm not exactly sure what that means. In the pre-BMD days, Davinci was very hardware intensive, featuring cutting-edge digital processing. Their bread-and-butter just prior to the acquisition was the Davinci 2K system and not Resolve. That was all about the hardware.

What BMD did was pick up the name and IP of a dying company in order to own two piece of software - Resolve and Revival - which he saw as their future. In that step he also cut off all existing support contracts from previous customers, because it would have meant maintaining the hardware business and parts stockpiles, which he deduced (rightly) as an unsustainable model. So pre-BMD it was a hardware company - and that's what he changed.

But yes, I agree, the hardware panel costs what it costs. What I don't understand is why the Linux version costs an extra $20K for Linux licensing. Is that simply because it's only going to large facilities that can bare the freight?

[Tim Wilson] "Contrast this with the Teranex converters. Grant was able to take a $90,000 box, add features, reduce the size, make it quieter, AND drop the price to $1995 (yes, a drop of $82,000) and still make a profit because, after the initial, very expensive development of a Teranex converter had paid for itself, the thing was damn near nothing BUT margin."

Unlike the Davinci 2K, Teranex was the software, plus custom chips. The chip manufacturing had already been offloaded and the development cost amortized through several previous sales. Teranex had already done themselves what Grant did, only years before - through the introduction of the original Teranex Mini and their licensing deals with consumer TV set and DVD player manufacturers.

At the time of their sale to BMD, the big bucks Teranex product was actually a very sophisticated image restoration system for film transfers and other services. That still hasn't been revived by BMD, since what they sell now is primarily a format/standards converter, whose development goes back to the first Teranex products.

Grant has been very intelligent about buying the right companies at the right point. That's why he would have never been interested in picking up Avid when that was bandied about months ago. It wouldn't have been a good deal. The beauty of what Grant has been doing in all of these moves is acquire and stockpile one helluva a lot of IP. He retains the core value, dumps the overhead (accounting, marketing, business management) and secures cheaper hardware manufacturing sources. With this IP portfolio, he is now free to mix and match this technology in ways that these individual companies never could have done on their own. A lot of this IP has yet to find its way into a BMD product.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 11:23:39 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But yes, I agree, the hardware panel costs what it costs. What I don't understand is why the Linux version costs an extra $20K for Linux licensing. Is that simply because it's only going to large facilities that can bare the freight?"

Hardware panels are not my area of expertise, but after the initial investment in R&D, manufacturing, etc., wouldn't the margins improve over time? It's not like a new model is rolling out every year.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 11:32:25 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "It's not like a new model is rolling out every year."

But I'd bet they aren't selling a lot of them either. My guess is that the Linux seats are more likely to buy a Resolve panel than the Mac or PC seats.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 11:38:30 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But I'd bet they aren't selling a lot of them either. My guess is that the Linux seats are more likely to buy a Resolve panel than the Mac or PC seats."

You are probably right on both counts. Out of curiosity, did the current BM panel come from Da Vinci or is it something BM made (or heavily updated) after they bought Da Vinci?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 30, 2015 at 12:22:11 am

[Andrew Kimery] "did the current BM panel come from Da Vinci or is it something BM made (or heavily updated) after they bought Da Vinci?"

This is BMD's own design. The original Davinci panels are much more engineered and heavy - i.e. more expensive to built. More metal, less plastic. The new panel was designed by BMD and can be configured via software. These panels connect via USB, while the old Davinci panels used a custom protocol to their own hardware.

FWIW - Wikipedia has a pretty decent chronology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Vinci_Systems

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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jim bachalo
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 24, 2015 at 7:56:31 pm

Can any experienced 12 users chime in about multicam performance? My primary reason for staying in FCPX for my edit and XML to Resolve right now

You should follow me on Twitter here. My latest work


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Mauricio Lleras
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 9:44:37 pm

[David Powell] "Its extremely annoying that I can't do it in X"

David, sorry to burst in, but I am wondering,
couldn't you just make a compound clip of the project
you wish to use as a source clip?
You would then be able to skim it and edit unto your main project from it...
I know visually it's not the same as two open timelines,
but it's pretty similar to Avid/FCP7 's loading of timelines into the source monitor.
Regarding markers I'm guessing it wouldn't inherit previous markers in the project
like Avid or FCP7 do (I'm not in front of X),
but you could always create your compound clip first thing
and then place markers on it...
Please correct me if I'm wrong,
I follow X closely but am mainly on FCP 7 and Avid.


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David Powell
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 10:14:55 pm

Mauricio ,

No I can't. I mark up the sequence while I'm creating a live cut (which is why Adobe's targeting problem hurts me) and then I make a smaller highlight from those selects. Also, all my projects are multicam. FCPX does not properly cut multicam nests back into sequences. That was a major problem when I first tried to cut from a nest the I/O points are way off (and even the camera if I remember correctly). Stacking timelines is truly the most superior way to do this.
So X would have to fix the multi-cam nest problem inherit the marker markers to the nest, at least from the top most video connected. As of now I have to copy and paste which is a pain.


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James Ewart
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 10, 2015 at 5:29:25 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "the ability to scrub selects in context of your edit without actually shutting that edit down, part of me is genuinely surprised more people aren't irritated by not having that."

It's the thing I miss the most when creating new versions. Being able to pancake and see the differences.


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 8:33:45 pm

Resolve 12 has many high end delivery codecs, but misses a few important generic ones (Mac platform):

- there is no MPEG2 export
- you can only output H264 through Quicktime. No generic MP4 output
- there are no presets for mobile devices or tablets

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC2014, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 29, 2015 at 9:04:56 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "- there is no MPEG2 export
- you can only output H264 through Quicktime. No generic MP4 output"


MPEG2 requires paying a licensing fee, therefore many encoders do not include it. MP4 is a wrapper, like QuickTime. If you want an H.264 codec in an MP4 wrapper that's a different issue. H.264 in a .MOV wrapper is there because Quicktime supports it. There are probably also licensing fees that are applicable to the software developer, but not the end user, for H264 encoding outside of QT.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 31, 2015 at 2:06:23 pm

Another limitation in Resolve is that all projects reside on the client computer.
(that's also one thing I don't like about FCPX)

In order to save a project to a Workgroup server it must be exported - which means the next time you open that project, you will have to import and replace if it has been altered on another client.

- No Parking Production -

Adobe CC2014, 3 x MacPro, 3 x MbP, Ethernet File Server w. Areca ThunderRaid 8


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Jul 31, 2015 at 3:32:00 pm

[Morten Ranmar] "Another limitation in Resolve is that all projects reside on the client computer."

There is a new consolidate function that makes your project more transportable. But in general, yes, Resolve's project workflow isn't quite as convenient as other NLEs, because of how the database is handled.

[Morten Ranmar] "that's also one thing I don't like about FCPX"

This is incorrect. FCPX Libraries with embedded or linked media can be created and/or moved around to any computer, internal or external drive. The only problem is that you have to set up the initial media locations with each newly created Library. So, if you want everything on a single, external, removable drive, it's no different than FCP 7 or Premiere Pro.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 1, 2015 at 8:37:03 pm

I think it's a bit early to complain about what Resolve 12 can or can't do yet. This first version of the public beta has a lot - and I mean a LOT - of things that aren't functional yet.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 1, 2015 at 8:59:48 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I think it's a bit early to complain about what Resolve 12 can or can't do yet. This first version of the public beta has a lot - and I mean a LOT - of things that aren't functional yet."

Does sync by waveform work? At NAB one of the BM reps said they weren't showing it because it was too slow (obviously still alpha at that point).


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 1, 2015 at 9:25:38 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Does sync by waveform work?"

It seems to be OK and analyzes and sync pretty quickly. I only tried one pair of audio and video clips, though.

I find the way they are handling multichannel audio in these source clips and then in multicam clips, as well as on the timeline, to be extremely confusing. It's quite possible that some of this (like "display individual channels" on the timeline) isn't working yet, which doesn't help.

In general, it looks like they tried to graft a lot of X's paradigms into a track-based world. And to some extent, hide the fact that you are working with tracks.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 2, 2015 at 2:29:11 am

[Oliver Peters] "It seems to be OK and analyzes and sync pretty quickly. I only tried one pair of audio and video clips, though."

Oliver did you test with RED files?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 2, 2015 at 1:12:02 pm

I didn't test RED files for sync as I don't currently have in my possession any RED files that are double-system sound. However, I tested RED Dragon files for input, peformance and grading and they seem to be fine. Video-only.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Blackledge
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 4, 2015 at 2:08:45 pm

No - You can- Your using Disk Database = Local

You need to create a Postgres Database.

This will reside where you define it and allow other to connect to it - edit - save etc.

You can even collaborate and have edit and grade happening at same time.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 12 Pros and Cons
on Aug 4, 2015 at 2:25:19 pm

[Simon Blackledge] "You can even collaborate and have edit and grade happening at same time."

That feature is only enabled with the paid version.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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