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10.2 update

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Tom Sefton
10.2 update
on May 27, 2015 at 12:51:50 pm

Just made the update after sitting around waiting for confirmation that all was well.

The performance leap with RED and 4K ProRes footage is quite simply jaw dropping.

Very impressive, especially leaping around multiple projects and multicam sequences.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 10.2 update
on May 27, 2015 at 10:00:10 pm

It is quite obvious, Tom, that this software is not made for professional use.



FCPX represents the cauterization of over a century of visual communication practices. Apple has taken it upon themselves to problem solve tasks that are clearly quite undeserving of the effort. For now, and for ever more, the natural evolution of film history will be altered thanks to the unprofessionalism that this software emanates from every contextual menu, and from every frame that drips from a Thunderbolt cable in glorious 4k.



But, I'm glad your Red performance has increased. I hear the FCPX using soccer parents love shooting and editing Red footage.


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Gary Huff
Re: 10.2 update
on May 27, 2015 at 11:35:29 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I hear the FCPX using soccer parents love shooting and editing Red footage."

You should wander over to Reduser and see those doing just that!


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David Mathis
Re: 10.2 update
on May 27, 2015 at 11:39:12 pm

Soccer parents using a Red camera and editing with FCP X, brilliant! Wonder how many cat videos are filmed with a Red or even an Arri camera.

Just purchased a Bolex H16 camera, no need for a Red, might even sell my cinema camera. Then again, might keep it. Just waiting for Resolve 12, so if Apple makes another royal screw up at least with FCP at least there will be something else to use. Oh, yeah, going to learn how to use those glorious tracks again!

Honestly, it appears that 4K resolution is just another fad. Film will own any digital format, in my opinion. Done with my rant.


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Shawn Miller
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 6:29:43 am

[David Mathis] "Honestly, it appears that 4K resolution is just another fad."

Probably not for acquisition or post... :-)

Shawn



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Mark Suszko
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 11:42:10 am

Garchow:



10/10


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Eric Santiago
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 12:32:34 pm

After a few days of pulling whats left of my hair out, I have to add more fuel to the flame that Premiere needs to be fixed NOW!!!
If anything that app is not ready for the real 4K world.
I dont know of anyone with a 4K camera locally except for a few DRAGONS, EPICS and Scarlets so I dont honestly know of any ARRI ProRes flavs to work with.
Trying to do the simplest things in Premiere of late has just been purely annoying.
Ive been using Premiere since v1 (yes Im that old) but never to tried to use it to this extent (RED projects).
Sure its smooth with QT clips and possibly MXFs (I dont know) but as far as R3Ds are concerned its a huge step behind FCPX, Resolve and now honestly Avid.
So back to the post.
I didnt notice it being faster since Ive been using FCPX with R3Ds since the beginning and comparably to others, it always felt faster no matter what update comes :)


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Scott Witthaus
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 3:15:36 pm

Funny, as most of my agency clients are shooting some form of 4K/Epic 5K. Mainly so they can re-po in post and not take the time to "do it right" in the glass, on location. Pay them then or pay me later.

And as far as Premiere goes.... ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 3:22:00 pm

I've been doing a green screen project by starting the rough draft in FCPX and using Hawaiki Keyer. I can stack 3 or 4 4k streams with a rough key, and add dissolves and have this playback in good enough quality in FCPX to understand the edit, and make creative decisions with no rendering. It's a bit mind boggling, really.

I then send that edit over to Ae via XML, do the keys, render out each clip with handles as 4k ProRes 4444 clip with alpha, and then reassemble the edit in the AE timeline. I then check the edit in Ae, and the collect the timeline with media and send off the Ae project to a motion graphics artist to be incorporated in to a much larger piece.

During the check of the Ae timeline, which is basically two or three ProRes 4x4 movies, the RAM preview is slower than the RAM preview for doing the keys, it takes 5 minutes to RAM preview a 20 second 3 stream ProRes playback. Why? Its feel like something is wrong, or that there's magic juice in FCPX and Hawaiki Keyer. If I could, I'd do this all in Motion and enjoy near realtime playback, but it's still easier to send an edit over to Ae than it is to Motion. I, too, find things to be better in FCPX but hey, I know nothing as I am brain dead for even thinking about using something that helps me to be more creative.


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Eric Santiago
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 3:54:30 pm

From my experience Ive always found AE slower than any NLE for RAM preview.
NLEs does some tricky coding for playback making us feel its smooth and 1:1 :)
AE tends to just be straight on grunt pixels in your face which I love (the CGI person in me) ;)
Maybe none of this makes sense but it does to me for the last 20 years :)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 4:01:07 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Maybe none of this makes sense but it does to me for the last 20 years :)"

But what I am saying is that, when I RAM preview the 4k shots with a key, this is faster than RAM previewing the rendered 4k files after I reimport them.

It doesn't make any sense, at least to me.


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Eric Santiago
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 5:53:24 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "But what I am saying is that, when I RAM preview the 4k shots with a key, this is faster than RAM previewing the rendered 4k files after I reimport them.
"


I have to investigate that one.


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David Mathis
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 10:46:22 pm

My biggest beef with After Effects is having to use RAM previews and the occasional long render time. Curious to see how Fusion stacks up. Of course, I prefer expressions over parameters on occasion. As they saying goes about having cake and eating it.


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Bret Williams
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 9:57:13 pm

You've got FCP 7 laying around? You're just one step from taking it into motion. Instead of importing that XML in AE, open it in 7 and send it to motion. Ignore Motion 4 and open the Motion project it creates in Motion 5.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 10:05:42 pm

I do have fcs3 around.

I have to share Ae projects, otherwise that's a great trick that I will definitely try.

Thanks!


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David Mathis
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 10:39:07 pm

I take it Motion will work on Yosemite?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 10:48:24 pm

Motion 4 doesn't even install on Yosemite. Every time I have to fire up Final Cut 7, i have to move Motion 5 in to the "Final Cut Studio" folder in the Applications folder, unless Brett knows a workaround for that? :) Maybe a sym link?

Jeremy


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Bret Williams
Re: 10.2 update
on May 29, 2015 at 12:23:48 am

If 7 won't send to motion without motion 4 functional then that throws it for a loop. Honestly the couple times I've done it, I sent the xml from xto7 over to my old Mac Pro 1,1 running lion and legacy FCP studio 3. I open in FCP 7 and send to motion. When it asks where to create the file I'll save it on the FCP X system. Then roll my chair back over to the main system and open it in motion 5.


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David Mathis
Re: 10.2 update
on May 29, 2015 at 1:00:36 am
Last Edited By David Mathis on May 29, 2015 at 1:12:04 am

Thanks for posting. I have FCS 3 Studio lying around somewhere. Might set up two partitions, Mavericks on one with Yosemite on the other. I will keep X on Yosemte side, to have that glorious 3D text, install old school on Mavericks partition.

Where should I save any project files to?


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Bret Williams
Re: 10.2 update
on May 29, 2015 at 4:11:07 pm

It's surprising someone hasn't been able to write some sort of converter to take the FCP XML or regular old XML and convert that to a motion project. I'm guessing the problem is that Motion doesn't have any XML import capability. I assume all the code to actually create a motion project is propriety and hidden somehow.


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Walter Soyka
Re: 10.2 update
on May 30, 2015 at 3:40:03 am

[Bret Williams] "It's surprising someone hasn't been able to write some sort of converter to take the FCP XML or regular old XML and convert that to a motion project. I'm guessing the problem is that Motion doesn't have any XML import capability. I assume all the code to actually create a motion project is propriety and hidden somehow."

.motn files are themselves XML-based and somewhat human-readable. While there do seem to be a few magic numbers [link] throughout, an enterprising developer could at least partially reverse-engineer the project file format and hope it doesn't change too much in the next version.

In fact, Automatic Duck could bring Motion 4 projects into Ae, but it won't work on M5 projects due to changes in the format.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Dennis Radeke
Re: 10.2 update
on Jun 1, 2015 at 10:08:47 am

Eric,

Sorry to hear that you're experiencing a less than awesome experience. Generally, our RED performance is very very good. Below are some thoughts, tips or suggestions that might help.

1 - The biggest thing to know with large frame sizes like RED is understanding the fractional playback controls in the Source and Program panels. If you're trying to play 4k content at "full" on a laptop or even a decent desktop, then that's likely your overall problem. In the bottom right of each panel there is a pull down that allows you to set the resolution - Full, 1/2, 1/4, and so on. This will lower the playback resolution which is fine since you're not likely viewing on a 4k monitor anyway. Check out this: Source and Program Monitors
2 - editing anything large and complex in most NLEs requires balance among the system components. Most important to Premiere Pro is RAM. Depending on the project and the system you have, you should have at least 32GB of RAM.
3 - standard house keeping stuff like this

Hope this helps.
Dennis - Adobe guy


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Mitch Ives
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 4:20:04 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "It is quite obvious, Tom, that this software is not made for professional use."

Sarcasm noted. It's a good update, but as usual some issues.

1) Waveform update is a bit inconsistent. I often find I have to either zoom in or zoom out to force it to redraw.

2) Had the rare occasion of having to drop a whole series of JPEGs onto the timeline, as some of the GoPro footage was mistakingly shot as jpeg's rather than MOV. This gave 10.2 quite a problem. On several occasions trying to bring in 1000 or so would result in FCP going into Not Responding mode. This is on a fully loaded 8-core nMP with 64GB of ram and a very fast disk array.

That's a first for me, I've never been able to get X to hang. It's completely repeatable. The good news is that I don't plan on doing this other than this one time...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 10.2 update
on May 28, 2015 at 5:00:50 pm

1) That's better than a beach ball

2) GoPro has tools to make those .movs that FCPX can handle with ease.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 10.2 update
on May 29, 2015 at 10:23:30 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "FCPX represents the cauterization of over a century of visual communication practices. Apple has taken it upon themselves to problem solve tasks that are clearly quite undeserving of the effort. "

Well done there Jeremy. Admitting there is a problem is the first step in beginning to move on. Brave step.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 10.2 update
on May 29, 2015 at 8:39:09 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " Brave step."

I do my best.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: 10.2 update
on May 29, 2015 at 9:37:41 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Admitting there is a problem is the first step in beginning to move on. Brave step."

...says the man who does not use the product....

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 10.2 update
on May 29, 2015 at 10:03:25 pm

sits on my dock, right in the centre, happily use it to pull and cut 240 fps 720P material off the impossible iPhone 6 object they produced.
the import dialogue is clean serious business.

FCPX is the car in the garage with the steering wheel on the roof and the pedals put where the wing mirrors usually are. there's a bobbling white dot as well.

It is the Tucker Sedan of engineering automobile non-linear editing systems. It has its diehard adherents all present and correct here on the cow -
but it's still a Tucker Sedan.

I generally think Apple lost themselves a hair too far in the future with X. It's just too preachy.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: 10.2 update
on May 30, 2015 at 12:34:57 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on May 30, 2015 at 12:36:24 am

And then there's the AMAZING Christopher Hills in Australia - with whom I have had the distinct privilege of corresponding last week. Chris has a condition that keeps him confined to a wheelchair where he has to do his editing with a stick held in his teeth and an adaptive interface solution. He's a remarkably smart young man.

Somehow HE gets FCP X and really enjoys creating videos on it he posts on YouTube.

But I understand if the modest interface differences and revised thinking it presents are just WAY too much to overcome for some editors.



Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 10.2 update
on May 30, 2015 at 1:41:26 am

[Bill Davis] "Somehow HE gets FCP X and really enjoys creating videos on it he posts on YouTube."

yep. apple really to god is apple - no one else imbues deeper efforts like they do in software. Gruber has gone deaf pointing out accessibility in iOS - but there is some actual general humanist magic sauce in their stuff.

that said apple photos storage is crappily over-priced tho. After google IO you'd run to google photos.
Unlimited photos and unlimited 1080P video storage baby. that's quite something.

Not everyone always gets to go to apple disneyland. Their disneyland has extremely clear borders. Media content generation possibly ignores that kind of demarcation entirely. or it maybe super, super totally doesn't.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Steve Connor
Re: 10.2 update
on May 30, 2015 at 8:46:53 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "After google IO you'd run to google photos.
Unlimited photos and unlimited 1080P video storage baby. that's quite something."


Yes it is, for Google, think of all that data of yours they get from it. if you don't mind the big G data mining all your pictures it is quite something.


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tony west
Re: 10.2 update
on May 30, 2015 at 1:26:50 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "FCPX is the car in the garage with the steering wheel on the roof and the pedals put where the wing mirrors usually are."

Only that would make the car almost impossible to drive for everybody.

X isn't almost impossible to drive for everybody.

X is more like a car that says, you don't have to stop at the gas pump, but you can if you want to pump gas.


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