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3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...

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Charlie Austin
3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 7, 2015 at 5:28:50 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on May 7, 2015 at 7:44:54 pm

motionVFX in particular. Seems like it's opened up a whole new environment in which to build cool things like this:

https://vimeo.com/127015527


EDIT: So... i bought it. Holy sh*t.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Steve Connor
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 7, 2015 at 5:32:46 pm

Just about to post the same link! Can't wait to get this


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 7, 2015 at 5:53:17 pm

[Steve Connor] "Just about to post the same link! Can't wait to get this"

Me too. Say what you will about FCP X, but the stuff you can do without leaving the app is pretty mind boggling. Yes, you need to spend a few extra bucks for plugins, but what's available is kind of nuts. I don't rent AE, and I'm sort of clueless in Motion. I've been using FCP X for all my graphics, compositing, baked in audio effects etc for the job I've been cutting in Pr lately. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 12:38:47 am

come on. it's circus carny stuff. Apple put their back into a fifteen year old 3D text sell. Where are the keyframing tools? Why is X still as stupid as it is for keyframing?

what's more important for title typography? A back 3D bevel, or the ability to control its motion on screen? A decent keyframe controller? You're all living in a la la land where you have a public joke in terms of keyframing. Surely the very best title object is a title object you have some keyframe control of right?

FCPX is the world's last best joke in terms of keyframing, and you're all left blinking and trying to ignore it. It's a brain damaged key frame system. The GUI exposing the keyframes is itself brain damaged.

The fact that you end up with ripple training selling wallmart litre mayonnaise copper distressed bevel one time offer type styles on QVC tells you everything you need to know about the heart of FCPX.

the key stakeholders don't even care to touch or remedy basic failings. They won't look to code a keyframe solve - they just want to sell vitamin pills.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Rofrano
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 2:08:32 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "FCPX is the world's last best joke in terms of keyframing, and you're all left blinking and trying to ignore it."
Are you referring to the fact that all keyframes are linear and there isn't any way to set a curve/easy in/out? Because I agree with you there. Other than that, I don't have a problem with how keyframes are handled.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 5:50:12 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on May 9, 2015 at 6:07:22 pm

[John Rofrano] "Are you referring to the fact that all keyframes are linear and there isn't any way to set a curve/easy in/out? Because I agree with you there. Other than that, I don't have a problem with how keyframes are handled."

Me neither. 10.2 seems to have a lot more ability to set curves on keyframes as well. Not sure if it was the case before as I don't do a ton of keyframed moves, but I just did some stuff the other day and pretty much every KF I set had a linear/smooth option. Is this missing for some KF stuff?



-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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John Rofrano
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 7:02:27 pm
Last Edited By John Rofrano on May 9, 2015 at 7:16:45 pm

Oh yea, I do see the Linear and Smooth option now. That was not there is 10.1.4 (I just checked my other Mac Pro). So this must be new to 10.2. Awesome!

How are you getting the curve handles?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Steve Connor
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 7:05:43 pm

[John Rofrano] "Oh yea, I do see the Linear and Smooth option now. How are you getting the curve handles?
"


I don't see these, what effects?


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 7:43:08 pm

[Steve Connor] "I don't see these, what effects?"

The picture is just a transform, but they seem to appear in most things you'd KF in the viewer. Again, I haven't really poked around that much to see if they're missing or different in other things, but they seem to show up like that when I need them...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 7:40:33 pm

[John Rofrano] "How are you getting the curve handles?"

Just click the KF in the viewer, helps to zoom in so you can see them...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Scott Witthaus
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 2:38:21 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "FCPX is the world's last best joke in terms of keyframing, and you're all left blinking and trying to ignore it"

hmmm, doing PrCC work now and I can say the same thing about Pr's media import model ("let's play the game of import every friggin folder as a bin" unless I missed something, which the Pr Cow forum says I did not) and title tool which reminds me of Avid 15 years ago (create a title, save a title, go back the the bin and then edit the title back into your timeline...yeah efficient). Keyframes in Pr are nice, but the above suck take the winds out of the sails of Pr. Oh yeah and that pesky track thing, patching tracks, oh sh** I forgot to patch source track one to timeline track three, whoops you over wrote by accident...Give me X every time.

Time for me to leave the pub.... ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 6:35:01 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "create a title, save a title, go back the the bin and then edit the title back into your timeline...yeah efficient)"

My favorite default feature is that titles act like compound clips in X. Change one, they all change. Really annoying for slates and spots with multiple versions containing the same titles/cards. Sure, just remember to duplicate it and delete the original before changing it. Efficient.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Steve Connor
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 7:05:07 pm

[Charlie Austin] "My favorite default feature is that titles act like compound clips in X. Change one, they all change. Really annoying for slates and spots with multiple versions containing the same titles/cards."

That caught me out big time when I first used PPro again!


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 7:46:45 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Charlie Austin] "My favorite default feature is that titles act like compound clips in X. Change one, they all change. Really annoying for slates and spots with multiple versions containing the same titles/cards."

That caught me out big time when I first used PPro again!"


lol... still gets me now and again.. The best thing about Pr is that, unlike FCP 7, I can work in X at the same time. You really get a feel for the difference between the two apps when you're CMD-Tabbing between the two all day. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Dennis Radeke
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 8:08:52 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "import every friggin folder as a bin" unless I missed something"

Most times you want to assume to bring in a folder as a bin or preserve the folder structure. You also have use of the Media Browser for different workflows.

[Scott Witthaus] "and title tool"

You have three title tools. Built in, Photoshop and After Effects. If you don't like one, there are two others. That said, I agree that the workflow of the built-in title tool could use some work.


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Bret Williams
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 5:51:59 am

Why were you not calling out keyframing problems in FCP legacy which is the same keyframing engine? I called it out for the crap it was for over 10 years because I had used After Effects and even Avid was better. It's crap. Motion is pretty decent but it's still no AE.

But honestly, what the hell are you keyframing that needs so much detail? You should be doing that sort of thing in AE or Motion.


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 5:27:55 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "come on. it's circus carny stuff. Apple put their back into a fifteen year old 3D text sell. Where are the keyframing tools? Why is X still as stupid as it is for keyframing?"

The point of this post was simply that Motionvfx doesn't seem to have been affected by Apple adding 3D text to X. He's released more 3D related stuff in the last couple weeks than ever. And mObject does a lot more than text, apparently it's doing fine.


[Aindreas Gallagher] "The fact that you end up with ripple training selling wallmart litre mayonnaise copper distressed bevel one time offer type styles on QVC tells you everything you need to know about the heart of FCPX."

Good for them. Hopefully they sell a lot of them. I won't buy 'em, for the same reason I don't buy any of the canned title templates that have come before. They're kind of ridiculous. :-) However, the ability to do 3D text in the app has been really useful. I'm not talking about the extrusion and rotation, which is what everyone is focusing on. You've been able to do that forever in some way or another. It's all about the lighting and surface modeling for me.

All the stuff I'm cutting in a job I've got in Pr has 3D titles made in X. The depth is set to 0, or maybe 1 at most. Text in Pr sucks, and "linking" to AE text, or having our gfx guy make stuff, takes more time than just doing stuff in X and exporting it. You can mock it all you want, but it looks great.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "FCPX is the world's last best joke in terms of keyframing, and you're all left blinking and trying to ignore it. It's a brain damaged key frame system. The GUI exposing the keyframes is itself brain damaged."

Have you tried 10.2? Didn't think so. It's getting better.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 8:11:37 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on May 9, 2015 at 8:23:01 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Where are the keyframing tools? Why is X still as stupid as it is for keyframing?"

Yes, Premiere gives you visual, numerical, and linear controls for key framing. All easily accessible.



Sure would be great to have this in X. Oh, wait... I do have that and, subjectively, it's easier on the eyes. ;-)



-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 10, 2015 at 12:12:57 am

Seriously, don't even go there. There is absolutely no comparison and I've never heard anyone even suggest it nor defend FCPs keyframing. But it's the nature of NLEs. Adobe is the exception. Motion is pretty good, but useless for basic NLE keyframing if you can't send to motion. That used to be the excuse. FCP legacy keyframing sucked too but if you couldn't make it work Motion was there almost like a basic modal extension of the app.

The extension makers sure can't complain about that. Making motion a one way trip has been wonderful for them.


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 10, 2015 at 12:52:55 am

[Bret Williams] "Seriously, don't even go there. There is absolutely no comparison and I've never heard anyone even suggest it nor defend FCPs keyframing."

lol... Well, as I said, my key framing needs are pretty basic, and in 10.2 it seems much better for the kind of stuff pictured in the screenshots above.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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tony west
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 11, 2015 at 1:49:07 pm
Last Edited By tony west on May 11, 2015 at 1:50:04 pm

I don't do much keyframing in X myself. Like Bret said, if I'm going to build anything that needs detailed key framing I do it in Motion.

I also tend to start whatever I'm trying to build in Motion to begin with, then I bring that into X

While send to Motion would be cool to have back, since I like to start in Motion anyway it's not as big a deal for me. I organize my Motion files in a folder that I make it's own Event so I can get to them fast in a project.

I was building a nuclear chain reaction the other day. I just wouldn't want to start anything like this in any NLE



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Kevin Monahan
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 11, 2015 at 7:53:12 pm

Hi Charlie,

[Charlie Austin] "Yes, Premiere gives you visual, numerical, and linear controls for key framing. All easily accessible. "

Beyond that, Premiere Pro has different keyframe interpolations: Ease In, Ease Out, Linear, Bezier, Auto Bezier, Continuous Bezier, and Hold.

More info here: https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/controlling-effect-changes-using...

And here: http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/keyframe-tips-and-tricks-in-premiere-pro/

Just so you know your options.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Support Product Manager—DVA
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe
Follow Me on Twitter!


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David Mathis
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 12, 2015 at 4:25:06 am

Is there a hold keyframe option or does the razor blade get involved for this option?


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Andrew Kimery
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 12, 2015 at 4:27:51 am

[David Mathis] "Is there a hold keyframe option or does the razor blade get involved for this option?"

Yes, there is a hold keyframe option in PPro.


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Bret Williams
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 5:56:41 am

This has absolutely nothing to do with the 3D text environment that I can tell. Just another cool plug from these guys. Has probably been in development for quite some time.


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Mark Dobson
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 6:46:26 am

All of these new plugins just help keep your edits look fresh. You might only use them a couple of times but the fact that they can be applied from within FCPX is amazing.

Another reason why FCPX is great for people like me, self shooting editors with their own production companies working in specialist fields.

I've bought this plugin but have yet to try it out.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "The fact that you end up with ripple training selling wallmart litre mayonnaise copper distressed bevel one time offer type styles on QVC tells you everything you need to know about the heart of FCPX."

Ha ! I'm also less enamored with the look of the 3D titling.


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Bret Williams
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 10, 2015 at 12:16:39 am

I already have volumetric. Rarely use it. Light rays were so 90s. 3D however is everywhere. You'd be hard pressed to find a broadcast promo that didn't at least have a logo or end graphic that's 3D. I love it. And I've barely used it but for a couple minor graphics. Just added a little something.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 1:19:28 pm

Yes, motionvfx do some great stuff ... but for anyone who's interested in making this effect for themselves in Motion, you might like to try out my popular YouTube tutorial that shows you how to do it:







It's a very powerful and adaptable technique that's well worth knowing about.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: 3D apparently isn't hurting plugin makers...
on May 9, 2015 at 5:36:19 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Yes, motionvfx do some great stuff ... but for anyone who's interested in making this effect for themselves in Motion, you might like to try out my popular YouTube tutorial that shows you how to do it:"

That's, as usual, a great tutorial, did it a while ago with... decent results. Not because of the tutorial, but because I still basically fumble around in Motion. :-) You should DL the demo of the mvfx thingy, it's quite nice. Perfect for lazy editors like me! ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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