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Keith Rocheck
3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 7:15:25 am

I would just like everyone to see the irony behind Apple's new model. Assume our wonderful 3rd party developers decide to jump on this new bandwagon and build what we all need. If they sell it though the App Store, Apple takes part of the profit.

Think about this, Apple makes more money by pawning off development to 3rd party.

3rd party developers ... we love you ... save us ... just be sure you don't sell your wonderful stuff through the App Store. Keep all of your well-deserved income.

Sincerely,
All of us


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alban egger
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 11:53:55 am

Haha.....I believe the iOS app-store has proven to be a nice way to make money for developers.
What should the developers save us from?

The Apple-setup is brilliant. They build a nice framework for a ridiculous 300 bucks (well, it will be nice in a while at least) and let the developers do their magic and let the user buy what he needs.
If you never use multicam, why pay for it? if you never need more than the built in colorFX...why pay for them. if you like 90% of users never ever need to output to tape anymore....well then why have it?

i remember when a cameraman said: the day i need to roughcut on the road and not have an editor do that, i will stop being a cameraman. Guess what....he woke up, he is now using metadata on his P2 gear to prepare the footage for the edit. jobdescriptions and workflows change, apple adjust their businessmodel to it and vice versa.

i for my part can´t wait to buy for instance Nattress-plugins via the Appstore. Why not, safe, fast, easy and if i lose the licens Apple kept track for me. Convenience is king.



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John Berpskin
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 1:45:05 pm

I, for one, have no problem downloading plug ins from the app store. The app store is very competitive price wise which is fine with me. And I agree with the idea of only buying what I need without having to keep track of disks and serial numbers. works for me.


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Keith Rocheck
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 1:53:15 pm

Missing my point. Certainly plugins being sold through the App Store is great for the end users.

Apple clearly made a product that missed a lot of features and they've said for a number of things that the 3rd party developers will have to fill those gaps. So lets be clear here, a multi-billion dollar company doesn't want to develop some features that their user base wants and needs, but they'll turn around and profit off other companies filling in their gaps.

That is just shaddy.


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Craig Seeman
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 2:38:47 pm

[Keith Rocheck] "That is just shaddy."

Hmm, it sounds like running a profitable business to me. Both Apple and the developers benefit.

A good API and different companies with different ideas leads to a diversity of solutions so no one is constrained by a single programming team. Look at the diversity of plugin in developers such as Boris, GenArts, NoiseIndustries and their partners, CoreMelt, etc.



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Scott Sheriff
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 4:33:45 pm

[alban egger] "i for my part can´t wait to buy for instance Nattress-plugins via the Appstore. Why not, safe, fast, easy and if i lose the licens Apple kept track for me. Convenience is king."

It never ceases to amaze me all the 'straw man' scenarios the fanboys will create to make apple seem like Mother Theresa meets The Red Cross, squared.

I'm sure it makes you all warm and tingly to give apple money, but are you really trying to imply that buying directly from Graeme Nattress is unsafe, or inconvenient? Or that now apple has added a layer of protection and safety? If you go to the Nattress web site, you will see Graeme's direct email posted. Good luck getting through the layers of corporate bureaucracy at apple if you have problems.

I guess you don't understand the safety in diversity either.
There's an old saying about not putting all ones eggs in the same basket. Based on some of the horror stories people have posted about unrecognized purchases and other problems with your beloved app store. The last thing I would want to do is have my entire system tied to the app store. This is the equivalent of copying a file to the same drive its on, and then consider it backed up.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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alban egger
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 2, 2011 at 7:17:49 am

Scott, i didn't want to say it is unsafe to buy directly from Nattress, I did so often already.
I just wanted to say I see no problem in buying top-notch plugins via the app-store. Just because it is an app, doesn't mean it is a toy.



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Chris Kenny
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 2:29:32 pm

[Keith Rocheck] "3rd party developers ... we love you ... save us ... just be sure you don't sell your wonderful stuff through the App Store. Keep all of your well-deserved income."

The App Store has proven to be an extremely attractive sales channel. Even if you assume other sales channels have zero cost, all the App Store has to do is get you ~40% higher sales volume, and you entirely make up Apple's 30% cut. And through a combination of better exposure, one-click purchasing and increased user trust, it is not difficult for the App Store to do this at all.

And realistically, other sales channels don't have zero cost. If you sell direct from a web site, you need to set up payment processing and integrate it with an order fulfillment system. You'll have to deal with chargebacks, processing refunds, and a whole host of other issues that come with this sort of thing.

Copy protection also becomes a huge hassle if you self-distribute. With something fairly simple like a third-party app that does basic EDL exporting, you could easily be looking at writing more code to handle copy protection than for the core function of the app. And you'll have ongoing support hassles with lost registration codes, having to invalidate codes that start getting passed around, etc.

Especially for individual developers and small shops -- probably where most of these workflow tools are going to be coming from -- the App Store is by far the best choice for distribution. Apple is providing a lot of value for that 30%. You can argue that this isn't fair, when they could be providing the same value for a smaller share, but that's not a sound business reason to avoid selling through the app store.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Marvin Holdman
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 2:43:55 pm

Face it, this is an experiment conducted by Apple. They want to see if someone else (third party vendors) can absorb the cost of development and support for the majority of the "pro" features for FCPX. I am pretty sure that's why they are remaining so tight lipped about all of this. They simply don't know what's going to happen. The bottom line is, in order for 3rd party vendors to embrace this plan, there must be a lucrative user base to buy it. Apple knew they would alienate a vast segment of professional community with this abrupt change. In the coming months, they will "define" exactly what FCPX is going to be based on who ends up buying and using it. Key to this is "using it". It is certain that the price point puts it within reach of an entirely new segment of the market, but the question remains how many of those that buy it now will actually use it 6 months later. I don't care how nice the GUI is, or how cheap it is, editing will always take time. As optimized as the software will ever be, it will still take time, focused concentration and an innate aesthetic to edit quality video. When this realization sets in for those newcomers who have purchased this now affordable product, just as many will realize this is not for them.

The more I read about this, the more I think Apple really doesn't know what is going to happen next. Sure, in 6 months time, they will analyze all of the fallout from their actions and announce boldly, "That's what we planned all along, isn't it awesome?", but that's just marketing. It remains to be seen whether this is a going to be a textbook case for success or failure. Either way, this product simply doesn't know what it's going to be, and that makes it irresponsible for someone to recommend it for anything at this point. At this point, it's a shiny new toy that may, or may not hold any interest for anyone who needs a tool to do a job.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Chris Kenny
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 3:07:58 pm

[Marvin Holdman] "Face it, this is an experiment conducted by Apple. They want to see if someone else (third party vendors) can absorb the cost of development and support for the majority of the "pro" features for FCPX."

You're overstating the extent to which Apple has left out (or intends to leave out) pro features. Multicam and real video output are missing in the first release, but Apple has to implement these internally for technical reasons, and multicam is already a confirmed future feature. XML export and more control over audio track exporting are also not in the first release, but are coming, respectively "in the next few weeks" and "this summer".

Basically the only essential things Apple is actually leaving to third-parties are a) deck interaction and b) EDL/OMF/etc. There are already third party apps for tap capture/layback. There's already an app for exporting OMF (though hopefully someone will do something cheaper once there's wider API access). So the danger here is... what? FCP X might not sell enough copies for anyone to bother implementing an EDL exporting app? I doubt that. Hell, I like this app, I need EDL exporting, and I can code. if it comes to it, I'll do it.

Are there workflows that require other things? Sure. But the above constitutes the core set of features that will enable integration into pro workflows to start.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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John Davidson
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 3:22:30 pm

Apple hosts the software for free, there's no packaging and development costs, users never have to worry about losing their serial number, and they're instantly aware of updates and bug fixes to the plugin. I've been crying to Adobe for a plugin store for years after I lost some plugins from red giant that I still can't find.
The only overhead for development is your time and inventiveness. FCP7 relied on 3rd parties as well, you know. No offense, but your point is kinda lost on me.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Keith Rocheck
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 4:00:32 pm

It is very clear my point is still being missed. I obviously see the benefits for everyone involved. There really aren't any downsides for anyone. I develop software as well as my many other talents ... marketing and distribution are the two hardest things, and the App Store just makes sense that way. Its lucritive for the developers and for Apple for providing that platform.

I suppose the title of the topic should be: News Flash: Apple plans to make their money by having 3rd party's develop and sell FCPX features through them.

But it just seems really shaddy to me that Apple's model as a multi-billion dollar company is to not develop a fully featured product that services the needs of a wider user base, specifically the user base that got them to where they are in the market, and instead let others fill in their gaps AND STILL PROFIT OFF THOSE EFFORTS.


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Craig Seeman
Re: 3rd Party Developers - PLEASE DO NOT SELL IN APP STORE
on Jul 1, 2011 at 4:10:27 pm

I understand what you're saying. I disagree that it's shady. Apple is a business. They have resources that they allocate. Not doing one thing means focusing the programmers on something else. They can raise priority on some things knowing that other things can be successfully taken care of by third parities and sometimes BETTER that way, not only for business but for improved feature sets.



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