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The FCP X "tell"

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Oliver Peters
The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 20, 2015 at 11:11:53 pm

A lot of folks wonder if Apple can be trusted with FCP X and fear that at some point the application will be dumbed down or even dumped. As I look over Photos, I think I see the point at which such a move - assuming it would even happen - would become telegraphed. The "tell" so to speak.

Photos, like the iWorks apps before it, is part of the iCloud package. In fact, you see it right there front and center if you access your iCloud account over the web. First as a beta and then a release version. In each case, these apps have been "iOS-ified" as part of that move. Consequently they've gained some slickness, but also lost a number of features.

In the case of Photos, it really replaces only iPhoto and even there seems to have lost (or maybe combined) some features. Aperture was summarily executed. So I suppose at some point (if bandwidth ever makes this realistic) we might see something like this happen to iMovie/FCPX. Maybe a new app called "Videos". Maybe in another 5 years. Of course, this is just pure speculation, but something to keep an eye on.

Just saying' ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 20, 2015 at 11:14:16 pm

I'm pretty sure they'll call it Oliver.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 20, 2015 at 11:15:23 pm

LOL

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:05:08 am
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:17:09 am

the cow will need styrofoam bats and world wide wrestling banners at this point. Oliver Peters raises a bit of an issue though right?

surely the point is that apple could change their minds at any point about the importance of heavy captured video discoverability inside editing paradigms across both their platforms? Everywhere but imovie it's like instagram video and periscope. no one is making archetypal home movies any more. They're single item highly compressed streamable moments. No dad's are cutting in their den. If that cosy amateur cutter thesis archetype finally dies in apple, then so dies iMovie, and if iMovie dies, then apple adopt an atomic photo object style streamable approach to stored iOS video items - transparently viewed across iOS and OSX, with an iOS/OSX videos app that allows item editing (maybe some multiple clip group editing) and sharing. And that's basically it.

If that happens, the last remains of pro-apps, centred on pro-editing, have got to be on a long, long thin cord out in the ocean.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:13:10 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "If that happens, the last remains of pro-apps, centred on pro-editing, have got to be on a long, long thin cord out in the ocean."

If it were to happen - and that's a huge IF in the foreseeable future - the engineers will move to other parts of Apple and the managers and marketers will move to Autodesk, Adobe, Blackmagic, Avid or somewhere else, just as they always have. Personally I'm not really worried, but it is a set of tea leaves one can try to read.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:15:24 am

PS: And the new preset for iTunes packages in Compressor, coupled with the massive amount of data centers that Apple is building, sure does make one think that video on iCloud has got to be in the long-range game plan.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:28:51 am

[Oliver Peters] "PS: And the new preset for iTunes packages in Compressor, "

yep, between that and the crazy direct hard links they engineered for X... I'm largely stupid, but you'd hope apple have some basic ambition and pride involved on old ground. Plus they're competing with adobe. Given the history and that. Adobe were, actually, incredible dicks to apple back when they thought they could be.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:38:01 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but you'd hope apple have some basic ambition and pride involved on old ground."

Tell that to photographers - and I mean the ones who aren't only using iPhones to shoot pictures. Apple has gone with the mass user segment, giving them only what Apple feels they need. It's a winning formula for Apple and certainly not wrong, but it doesn't benefit photographers. Granted, I actually think Photos is rather slick, but I never used iPhoto much - opting instead for Aperture and Lightroom. But what do you expect for free (not counting that dongle that cost thousands). ;-)

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Adobe were, actually, incredible dicks to apple back when they thought they could be."

Well, I've heard both sides of those stories and at best it's a draw.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:53:12 am

[Oliver Peters] "It's a winning formula for Apple and certainly not wrong, but it doesn't benefit photographers."

I have no problem with apple's recusal, given it resulted in Adobe developing ambition rabies. Premiere Pro broke off the chain quite a while ago.
That thing is currently loose and knocking over trees.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Scott Witthaus
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 2:16:43 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " Premiere Pro broke off the chain quite a while ago.
That thing is currently loose and knocking over trees."


Using both, I would say saplings or dead small ones....

;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Mark Dobson
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 10:07:33 am

[Oliver Peters] "Tell that to photographers - and I mean the ones who aren't only using iPhones to shoot pictures. Apple has gone with the mass user segment, giving them only what Apple feels they need. It's a winning formula for Apple and certainly not wrong, but it doesn't benefit photographers. Granted, I actually think Photos is rather slick, but I never used iPhoto much - opting instead for Aperture and Lightroom. But what do you expect for free (not counting that dongle that cost thousands). ;-)"

Your OT premise is probably something that worries a lot of people but the 10.2 upgrade, which a week in I'm finding much more impressive than I did originally, includes a lot of complex functions (made to look really easy) that seem to counter your prediction.

I'm just waiting to control FCPX with my Apple Watch, well using the watch face as a mouse is entirely feasible, and wait for Libraries, Events and projects become renamed as Moments, Collections and Years.

I've played around a bit with Photos and find it very impressive especially on my iPad and iPhone but it's editing function and usability is much more closely aligned to iPhoto than Aperture. I wonder if they will build more complexity back into it in terms of digital picture editing. As soon as I heard that Aperture was EOL I took out the very reasonable Adobe Photographer subscription for Photoshop and Lightroom and this combination is far superior to Aperture. Photos would need to improve dramatically for me to drop this package.


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:01:16 pm

"Your OT premise is probably something that worries a lot of people but the 10.2 upgrade, which a week in I'm finding much more impressive than I did originally, includes a lot of complex functions (made to look really easy) that seem to counter your prediction. "

I completely agree. I'm less worried about it than others. Merely offering a clue as to when one should get worried. ;-) In any case, I think we have at least 5 years.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Mitch Ives
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 12:41:13 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Aindreas Gallagher] "Adobe were, actually, incredible dicks to apple back when they thought they could be."

Well, I've heard both sides of those stories and at best it's a draw."


It's not often that my opinion differs from yours Oliver, but from a user prospective what Adobe did to us Mac users when they were in their "petulant child" phase was far worse than anything Apple has ever tried. Apple may eclipse them in the future, but as of today, I'd put Adobe in the lead for winning the "we didn't appreciate our customers and shot ourselves in the foot" award for shafting Mac users.

Like many of us, I was at NAB that year when there wasn't a single Mac in the entire booth. I located what was the apparent highest ranking person and challenged this. Apparently I wasn't alone as their answer was defensive... there's a Mac there. That was a personal laptop belonging to one of the presenters, not an official booth computer. Right then we knew something bad was coming.

I'd place that decision by Adobe right up there with the world's poorest thought out decisions. To their credit, it eventually became obvious that "NO", we weren't going to switch platforms just because they were having a tizzy. They eventually reversed their decision with a bit of political spin that would make a politician blush, but from that point on Adobe became a second tier player for many years.

It's nice to see them back up front where they could have been all along, though one could argue that the subscription model is the second act in that same stage play...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Mark Suszko
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 1:49:50 pm
Last Edited By Mark Suszko on Apr 21, 2015 at 1:52:59 pm

Back in the 70's and 80's, there was a group of analysts trying to figure out what the Soviet Russians were thinking. The nickname for these people were "Kremlinologists". Their craft was a mix of statistical analysis, high-end game theory, and wild-ass guessing, and they were right about as often as they were wrong. Any thread I see that tries to read the tea leaves of Cupertino reminds me of the Kremlinologists and their endless "...But if they know that WE know that THEY know that we know.. " games.

I guess it is entertaining to guess about, and I'm not trying to be critical of people who practice "Cupertinology", but I'm skeptical of the overall utility.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 2:59:54 pm

[Mitch Ives] "what Adobe did to us Mac users when they were in their "petulant child" phase was far worse than anything Apple has ever tried."

Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I will just try to lay out the facts and counterpoints if you find them informative or useful.

Avid went PC only for a time based in part on what Apple was doing (going from 6 to 3 slot Macs and I believe system 9 to the first OS X).

Apple has never been cross platform so if we were to turn this on its head...

In addition, I'm sure we could all go back to June 21, 2011 and see the threads of the first couple of weeks and see what the actual comments were at the time. Even to this day in fact. Does that make them a petulant child? I think not!

More to the point, lets talk about why Adobe made this change.

As for Adobe, we are talking about the fact that Premiere Pro wasn't cross platform for a time and was only available for the PC. This is true, but is not representative of products such as Photoshop and After Effects which at the time were (and some would argue still are) the more important products (especially to FCP and Avid users). They were cross platform for the entire time and remain so to this day. Whether Apple was up or down, we have been mostly cross platform on nearly all products. Why then did Premiere Pro go PC only for a time?

The engineering effort at the time of moving from Premiere to Premiere Pro (different product, different code base, different architecture) was such that we had to pause our initial effort of bringing the product to both platforms. It actually was a fairly late decision from what I heard. At the time also, FCP was starting to ascend and our market performance was stronger on the PC side at the time. Maybe not decisions that you agree by but certainly rational ones regardless of opinions.

Adobe didn't 'come to our senses' so much as we wanted to get back to a true cross platform integrated software suite which saw its first fruition come at CS3. There we were able to see a complete suite of applications centered around the NLE as the central hub of a video workflow.

Hopefully, this clears up any misunderstanding for the folks on the forum. Clearly, all software makers have made their faux pas' but in nearly all cases, they change directions and corrected course based on market demand. We've seen this true in Adobe, Apple and Avid's cases.

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Mark Dobson
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 4:36:05 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "Clearly, all software makers have made their faux pas' but in nearly all cases, they change directions and corrected course based on market demand. We've seen this true in Adobe, Apple and Avid's cases. "

To be honest Dennis, and I'm talking about the financial model, Adobe changed direction totally through introducing their subscription based payment system and whilst most people seemed to have rolled over and accepted this change, they wanted your software that badly, others have gone over to Apples pay once and buy a complimentary computer model as Oliver pointed out earlier.

There was little advance notice of Adobe changing their financial model just as there was no notice of Apple giving FCP 7 the EOL notice.

[Oliver Peters] "A lot of folks wonder if Apple can be trusted with FCP X and fear that at some point the application will be dumbed down or even dumped."

Whilst this thread is based on a hypothetical scenario of Apple dropping FCPX I think Oliver has raised an important reality and that is that we are all, regardless of NLE platform, dancing to the commercial whims of the marketeers.

Either way most NLE editors are bright enough to pick up another set of tools should one become unavailable. But hopefully FCPX will see me out.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 5:17:09 pm

[Mark Dobson] "There was little advance notice of Adobe changing their financial model just as there was no notice of Apple giving FCP 7 the EOL notice."

Creative Cloud and CS coexisted for a few years and once Adobe went CC-only CS6 was (and still is) available for purchase from Adobe. Contrast that to when Apple launched X and sales of 7 halted immediately. It wasn't until a few months later when Apple allowed users to call a 1-800 number, for a limited time, in order to purchase FCP 7.

Kinda a night and day experience and one that Apple has seemingly learned from given that they announced the EOL of Aperture, and its removal of Aperture from the Mac App store, months in advance.


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Mitch Ives
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 5:23:41 pm

Dennis... LOL.

You question my use of the word petulant, but then close your post with "Hopefully, this clears up any misunderstanding for the folks on the forum." That presupposes that I'm wrong and you've just corrected things. Jeez, that's not petulant... or arrogant. :-)

Your explanation makes sense to me and it's the spin that was commonly handed out after the mushroom cloud hovered over Adobe headquarters. There's just two little things that counter that:

1) When this happened, I contacted Adobe and made my thoughts known in detail. The entry level person I talked to couldn't really do anything other than look me up in the database. They were pleasant as always, as was I... just firm in my points and my level of unhappiness. I made it clear that I felt I could no longer count on them and that I felt the need to find alternatives to all their products, not just Premiere. After all, what if they discontinued Mac Photoshop and Illustrator next month? So, no, I wouldn't be buying any further CS versions.

A couple a days later Adobe calls me (I didn't call them). This person is higher up... goes on to tell me that they see how many copies of their software I have and more to the point I've had them all since version 1.0... some since 0.8 Beta. Apparently this changed things. Anyway we hash things out a bit... I listen... he listens, then he escalates me up the food chain.

Now I'm talking to some executive type and while I don't know why he cares, we go all through this again. I explain how I've paying Adobe forever, including those lucrative license fees for Postscript on the early LaserWriters (day one). At one point the conversation gets candid and he tells me straight out that they screwed up. I said wow, that's refreshing. I ask him if they're ticked at Apple and we discuss it. He tells me that they've been getting hammered with phone calls and emails and that from a PR perspective this is a nightmare. He used some colloquialism like "beaten like a rented mule" or something. I don't remember the exact phrase, I just remember that it was very funny and he had a sense of humor.

He tells me that they are too far behind on development for the Mac version at this point (as you said) but that it didn't have to be that way... they made some bad choices. He tells me that there will be new Mac version coming, he just can't say when because they have a lot of catching up to do (another of your points).

Now all of this could be charted off to some hallucination on my part, except for point number two.

2) Not too much later, some senior Adobe person gets on stage at NAB (or the SuperMeet), I can't recall because it was already old news to me... and basically says the same thing. He used the words "we screwed up". He says "we heard you and we're going to fix it, so you can stop calling and emailing". Wow, Deja Vu all over again.

So while your story has some factual occurrences sprinkled throughout, it leaves out the backstory, which is precisely the point I made... that you seemed to feel needed correcting. Adobe got their panties in a twist (his words) and made some bad decisions. The word some mistakes struck me, as I was only thinking of one.

Now, I'm sure Apple isn't innocent in all this. The whole change in development code hosed a lot of people, but the others kept developing. Whether Adobe was just too strung out to keep up or was pissed off, I can't say. But the point is that they made a conscious decision to do it.

Dennis, Adobe has a right to do any damn thing they please. They're a private sector company. And as far as screwing up goes, I think we've probably all done that a time or two. The thing is that they listened, and when they got hammered they did something about it. And in the end, that's what counts... that and the fact that I bet they never make that same mistake again...

Either way, you're in the hunt now and right at the front of the pack, so anything can change...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Bill Davis
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 2:38:09 pm

Hang on a second, Oliver.
Seems to me we have a pretty on-point example of how Apple looks at software evolution these days. Remember their flagship Video Editing Program and how when they tore it down, suddenly everyone wailed that they "dummed it down for consumers" and abandoned all the pros?

If Photos simply follows the most current public Apple software model, then in about 4 years, Photos will likely be at the top echelons of the pro community and letting high end pro photogs save buckets of time.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Mitch Ives
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 5:30:23 pm

[Bill Davis] "If Photos simply follows the most current public Apple software model, then in about 4 years, Photos will likely be at the top echelons of the pro community and letting high end pro photogs save buckets of time."

Four years is a lifetime in this business. So, you'll be using Lightroom for 4 years then, while you wait for something useful in Photos? I guess we all have no choice.

It's version 1 product, but I'm not impressed with it I suppose it's a good replacement for iPhoto, if you don't mind having the whole world revolve around iCloud?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Walter Soyka
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 5:39:28 pm

[Bill Davis] "If Photos simply follows the most current public Apple software model, then in about 4 years, Photos will likely be at the top echelons of the pro community and letting high end pro photogs save buckets of time."

That's the FCPX model. There's also the Pages/Numbers model, which is basically "one and done."

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Brett Sherman
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 5:55:55 pm

I'm always puzzled why everyone wants to compare Aperture to what may happen to FCP X instead of Logic X. If Apple kills Logic X, then you have to worry. Until that time, CTFD.

Professional photo management is a fairly limited market. Especially non-networked single-user photo management which is what Lightroom and Aperture are. It's also not a very complex program, really just a database with mild editing features. And Apple doesn't have an image editing program like Adobe does to tether it to. I think it may be just a business decision that doesn't portend anything about FCP X or Logic X.


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 7:38:02 pm

[Bill Davis] "Seems to me we have a pretty on-point example of how Apple looks at software evolution these days. Remember their flagship Video Editing Program and how when they tore it down, suddenly everyone wailed that they "dummed it down for consumers" and abandoned all the pros?"

I think the cases are different. Photos is geared towards an iOS world. We'll have to see if Apple choses to fill in the blanks. My point wasn't whether Photos would improve or not, but rather, that if people are concerned about the future FCP X, they should keep an eye on whether it shows up as part of iCloud or not. So far that appears to have had the effect of dumbing down the software as it's become "iOS-ified". While X is currently getting better with each version and filling in the blanks for pros, I think it could also go in the opposite direction. This would be necessitated by iCloud and iOS compatibility. I'm not trying to say it will or won't happen, but rather point out some clues to look for.

Realistically, though, Apple ran "legacy" for 12 years. We are on a more accelerated pace these days. Therefore I give FCP X 5-6 more years in its current form - or something along that same development trajectory. After that, be prepared for a revamp.

[Bill Davis] "Photos will likely be at the top echelons of the pro community and letting high end pro photogs save buckets of time."

Well, maybe. Most pro photogs I know jumped ship from Aperture to Lightroom or other tools long ago. There's nothing in Photos to bring them back. However, some will likely adopt dual workflows. Photos for things they shoot with their iPhone and something else for work shot as part of paid productions. I doubt Apple cares. That scenario would certainly qualify as a "wins" for Apple.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 7:50:02 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "Avid went PC only for a time based in part on what Apple was doing (going from 6 to 3 slot Macs and I believe system 9 to the first OS X)."

I know that I'm fighting 15 or 18 years of collected false memories here, but, as it keeps coming up, I do feel the need to at least try to set the record straight again.

Avid never dropped Mac support.

Never happened.

Never.

Happened.

Did I mention that this never happened? Because it never happened.


I should mention that, as I always do when this comes up, I consulted again with People Who Were There, including standing next to the key player as the following events unfolded, and this is rock solid.

Here's what ACTUALLY happened.


There was a time, many years ago, when Apple was on the ropes, and even Apple's most enthusiastic devotees were worried that Apple would go out of business. Anybody who was around at the time knows that this concern was not entirely unfounded.

Remember the clonemakers Power Computing? Their whole advertising campaign was built around saving Apple.

(Note too that even though the return of Steve changed the general outlook, as late as 2004, 7 years after Steve's return, Apple's stock price was still in the single digits!)

At Apple's nadir, Avid only had Mac-based products, so at one NAB, one Avid manager was asked, with reasonable concern, What will happen to Avid if Apple goes out of business?

That one guy, NOT speaking officially, said very simply, If Apple goes out of business, Avid won't. We'll support our customers by moving to PCs.

THAT IS ALL. No statement of Avid deciding to leave Mac in any form or fashion. No threat, no hint, and no actual leaving.

In fact, please note: this is the OPPOSITE of Avid talking about leaving the Mac. The question was, what happens if Apple leaves ITS customers, by going out of business?

And the answer is, even if Apple dies, Avid won't.


But from there, the "telephone game" of misquotes got underway, and continues to this day.


(Also, how did this rumor pass anyone's sniff test at the time? I was a Media 100 guy at the time, mocking Avid as loud and long as I've ever mocked anyone, for every issue you can imagine -- but Avid's core customer base was the then-almost entirely Mac Hollywood community. Avid was clueless on many counts at the time imo, but actively suicidal? Ridiculous.)

In any case, just to remove any lingering ambiguity or misunderstanding:


Avid never left Mac. Not for a second. Never said they would leave. Never threatened leaving.

It never happened. Never.


Windows data points:

-- Along the way, there were indeed some cross-platform products like Symphony that came out on PC first. The Mac codebase was in it from the beginning, though. The release timing was just part of Avid's resource management strategy of staggered platform releases back in the day. Not the case anymore of course. Symphony cozily settled on Mac for years, and both platforms now released in lock step.

-- DS and XSI were developed by Softimage when it was owned by Microsoft. Indeed, Avid bought Softimage directly from MSFT. There was no way the Microsoftness was ever gonna get untangled from those products, and none of them were ever released on Mac, including, to this day, by current owners Autodesk.

This is a self-contained story that has nothing to do with "dropping" Mac. Instead, Avid "dropped" a PC-only product line in order to focus on the core strategy of cross-platform development.

-- In the middle of the last decade, AFTER Apple released the free iDVD and included DVD Studio Pro with FC Studio, Avid wanted to provide free DVD authoring software for its customers on Windows, so naturally, the bundled DVD software from Sonic was on Windows. No "dropping" Mac.


Otherwise, Avid never SAID they'd leave Mac, never THREATENED to leave Mac, never LEFT Mac for one single second, with one single product.

Never.

Happened.


To summarize:

  • Apple was widely understood to be at risk for going out of business
  • One Avid manager was asked what would happen to Avid if Apple went out of business.
  • Speaking on his own, NOT reflecting any official language or position, gave a reasonable UNoffical answer: if Apple goes out of business, Avid will not.



Never said they'd leave Mac. Never threatened they'd leave Mac. Avid never left Mac. Ever.


I can dream that people might someday get the story straight. All these years later, it still hasn't happened, but I can't help myself from trying.

But that's the actual story. Avid never said they'd leave Mac. Never threatened to leave Mac. Never left Mac.

Pass it on.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 9:13:44 pm

In fact, in the era I used Avid (1990s-2004), they were like the stern parent to Apple users ... never authorizing CPUs or OS until a year or more after they came out. "But I want to use the new tower with Avid." "You'll use it, and the new OS, when they WORK, kids. Not before. Now go do your homework."

:-)

Doug D


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 9:51:24 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] " they were like the stern parent to Apple users ... never authorizing CPUs or OS until a year or more after they came out"

Avid has certainly been slow to qualify systems, but there are several reasons for that. 1) They only officially qualify on systems they actually have. 2) They only qualify on released versions - not pre-release/advanced versions. The reason is because in the case of hardware, Apple has and does make engineering changes to their hardware between the advanced and released machines. In fact, I currently hear users discuss differences between 1st and 2nd gen Mac Pro "trash cans", even though that officially doesn't exist to my knowledge.

During the time Tim was talking about, the plastic G3s were released. Avid's engineers found out about this only when one actually arrived in the shipping room. That's in spite of being partners of sorts with Apple. When they called Apple to ask "what's this", they were told, "oh BTW, the old beige machines are gone and this is the new form factor." With fewer slots, of course.

When the new MP launched, Avid had to initially work around the lack of an audio input on these machines. That's because Media Composer needed to see an audio input to work. That was fixed in a later update, but at the time, the workaround solution was to install Soundflower or to plug in a headphone with a mic.

Fortunately for the last year or more, Avid has been a lot faster to qualify machines and OS versions.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 9:57:41 pm

Well that system actually worked, because ... especially if you had an expensive service contract ... Avid would basically guarantee the setup would work. Same with fiber-channel drives ... once everything was authorized, you kind of understood if something goes wrong it is mean-failure time in hours, or your edit suite is overheated and baking the drives. We had everything on A & B sets of LTO cassettes. Never lost any work. But then, the whole setup with CPU, breakout boxes, drive tower etc... was worth north of $80K!

Doug D


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 10:06:28 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "Never lost any work. But then, the whole setup with CPU, breakout boxes, drive tower etc... was worth north of $80K!"

People can complain about Avid all they want, but I recently reloaded an old project and media into MC 8.3.1. I'd archived it using Automatic Duck Media Copy. It all loaded up and everything relinked, complete with all render files. There's a lot to be said for that - stodgy UI and all. ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 22, 2015 at 12:23:53 am

[Oliver Peters] "People can complain about Avid all they want, but I recently reloaded an old project and media into MC 8.3.1. I'd archived it using Automatic Duck Media Copy. It all loaded up and everything relinked, complete with all render files. There's a lot to be said for that - stodgy UI and all. ;-)"

I'll one up you. Recently I worked on a project in Avid 8.3 and a few times I took work home with me to tinker with. My home machine was running Avid 6.5 and it accepted my 8.3 project no problem. Granted it was cuts only and all the media was Avid Media but still, the compatibility between different Avid versions (even going backwards) is pretty cool.


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Charlie Austin
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 10:06:35 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Avid deciding to leave Mac"

I knew it! Confirmed by your quote above!!! Avid is leaving the Mac!


[Tim Wilson] "the "telephone game" of misquotes got underway, and continues to this day."

wait... what? ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Scott Thomas
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 22, 2015 at 6:53:29 am

NAB 1999.

There was one single Mac system in the Avid booth. The rest were PC systems. Most of the folks I saw in the booth were huddled around the solitary Mac.

From the stories I was told in the late 1990's, prior to the NeXT acquisition, Apple was pushing Copeland to the developers and the developers were not having it. (And probably for good reason) Thus began the march away from the Mac by Avid and Adobe.

Remember when Adobe started a sea-saw development scheme between Mac and PC? Was it Illustrator 6 that was a bug-riddled mess on the Mac? I don't remember exactly, but it was an awful time.

Don't forget that Microsoft around this time asked Apple to "Knife the baby" and was pouring money into Avid, and perhaps Adobe. Lots of politics going on back then. (MSFT bought SoftImage)

One can look back in time and see the purchase of Final Cut as a genius stroke. A guarantee against all of the forces put up against it.

Yeah, Apple may have been a petulant child to Avid by around 1996, but what if Apple never sent Avid those Mac II FX systems to Avid? Would Avid still be here if they released their NLE based on the slower Apollo workstations?


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Herb Sevush
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 22, 2015 at 12:50:58 pm

[Tim Wilson] "But that's the actual story. Avid never said they'd leave Mac. Never threatened to leave Mac. Never left Mac.

Pass it on."


I think you should stop being so cryptic and come out and say what you mean.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Dennis Radeke
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 22, 2015 at 7:56:26 pm

Thanks for the clarification Tim. It has been purported as fact for as long as you state the thing to have been. I was at an Avid reseller at the time this happened and it was told to us as fact via Avid channels. Regardless, its good to get the facts from someone who was there at the time.


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Bill Davis
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 9:10:21 pm

[Oliver Peters] "There's nothing in Photos to bring them back."

Well, not having your livelyhood bolted to monthly payments IS kinda something that would cause me to switch if Photos grows even a vaguely decent subset of what LR offers me today. Or if another vendor steps into the fray, perhaps. Any decent photo manager-simple refiner - and Pixelmator, and possibly Graphics Converter (both of which I OWN) would be plenty for me and I suspect a lot of other folks who need to use still images but don't want the bank account subscription fishhook.

This all comes with the acknowledgement that my personal anti-subscription bias is both overt and well known. Something I freely admit.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Oliver Peters
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 9:39:54 pm

[Bill Davis] "Well, not having your livelyhood bolted to monthly payments IS kinda something that would cause me to switch"

You can still purchase a perpetual license for Lightroom.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=983326&gclid=CPSOn-a...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 11:01:10 pm

I know, Oliver. They've accommodated the Photo folks from day one. Just not their video customers. Actually, truth be known it's not subscription per se that I'm against. There are plenty of customer subscription models that are quite benign and provide a useful alternative to the short term higher cost of paying up front. They just don't use what I feel to be the ransomware model for the Photo guys. I didn't like it back when Gates forced everyone to pay for MS software on every computer, irrespective of which OS you actually ended up running - and I wont build my business on programs or file types that somebody else can shut off unilaterally. Call me old fashioned, but that just seems foolish. YMMV

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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John Davidson
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 26, 2015 at 5:44:24 pm

[Bill Davis] "Well, not having your livelyhood bolted to monthly payments IS kinda something that would cause me to switch if Photos grows even a vaguely decent subset of what LR offers me today."

Actually Bill, as probably the only person on this thread that completely moved over to the Photos app from Aperture - the heart of it is the iCloud Photo Library which I am paying about $10/month for for 500 gigs (it may be $15, I forget). I love having all my RAW sources - plus videos - in the cloud and synced across all my macs when needed. Making quick edits on the phone and then they trickle across to the mac in 2 seconds - that part is pretty great. Knowing my personal photo library isn't tethered to the whims of a crashed drive is also great.

Not having skin smoothing, dodge, and the 'stamp selected images' in the Photos app sucks though. I'm very much looking forward to some Photos app updates.

Point is, everybody is going to get paid a monthly fee one way or another. Doh!

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: The FCP X "tell"
on Apr 21, 2015 at 9:23:56 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Realistically, though, Apple ran "legacy" for 12 years. We are on a more accelerated pace these days. Therefore I give FCP X 5-6 more years in its current form - or something along that same development trajectory. After that, be prepared for a revamp."

By then, Apple and Netflix will probably be releasing Apple NetFlix TV movies in Fan Fiction format. The movie is in the cloud, you use "FCPX Fan" to edit your own version of it, in the cloud, as you watch it. :-)

Given all the mobile "Shoot-Edit-Social Media It" apps, the iTunes Compressor package is step one, and soon a MobileShare module in X seems likely.

Doug D


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