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One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....

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Charlie Austin
One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 4:33:52 pm

It's quite nice...

http://fcpxpert.net/2015/04/13/fcp-x-10-2-first-look/

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Mathis
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 5:44:23 pm

Thanks for the post and excellent article. Was hoping that Cinema DNG raw would be supported in its native format. Very nice update otherwise. Anything new with Motion?

The magnetic timeline, it's magnetic-o-matic!


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 5:50:51 pm

[David Mathis] "Anything new with Motion?"

3D type, with a new environment and materials system.

This feature apparently applies only to text, not to shapes, so here's an old-school Smoke/Flame tip, newly applicable to Apple users: take your vector shapes, logos, etc. and create fonts from them.

Boom. Arbitrary 2D vector form extrusion.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 5:53:16 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Boom. Arbitrary 2D vector form extrusion.
"


Nice :-) Also, there have been some nice key framing improvements in Motion (and FCP) Copy/Paste keyframes in the Motion timeline is a pretty nice one...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 7:24:02 pm

Not downloading just yet. How does the copy paste work?


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 7:28:34 pm

[Bret Williams] "Not downloading just yet. How does the copy paste work?"

In what sense? Effects?

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:23:53 pm

It always seemed like it'd be natural to lasso the Keyframes in the timeline, press cmd c, highlight another layer, place the play head, and press paste. Like most every application since 1984. Like AE. But for some reason in Motion I can't even get copy and paste Keyframes to work consistently in the Keyframe editor. I honestly don't know how to do it correctly obviously. Sometimes I try the menu copy. Sometimes cmd c. Sometimes I select the Keyframes and right click and copy. And then it's the same issue with paste. I'm trying some combination of the fore mentioned methods along with the same paste methods and sometimes nothing happens. Sometimes I find them on a completely different group or track. Something that should be so basic is for some reason ridiculously complicated or unnatural to me at least.


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 7:33:19 pm

[Bret Williams] "Not downloading just yet"

FWIW, this release is very stable. I updated while waiting for a client to call back. All good. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Richards
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:04:09 pm

[Charlie Austin] "FWIW, this release is very stable. I updated while waiting for a client to call back. All good. :-)"


[for mobile users]


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Scott Witthaus
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:17:06 pm

[Charlie Austin] "FWIW, this release is very stable. I updated while waiting for a client to call back. All good. :-)"

Hmmm...tempting, but I am in the middle of two large commercial projects. A younger me would jump, but now I'll wait a bit...

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:30:38 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:31:17 pm

[Walter Soyka] "3D type, with a new environment and materials system."

Still. How is it that the major top line feature of a full dot release is a livetype style crazy 3D type renderer?

If they ever did any market research, does anyone think that a mad 3D type engine was top of anyone's list? How many times have fans on here mentioned native cinema DNG? or improved audio handling? or roles based audio effects mapping? Or a more customisable interface? Or a timecode indicator that isn't the size of postage stamp rendered in a stupid digital font?

How in the hell did they come up with an overblown 3D type engine as their headline feature? how many use cases does that answer?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Steve Connor
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:36:54 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "If they ever did any market research, does anyone think that a mad 3D type engine was top of anyone's list? How many times have fans on here mentioned native cinema DNG? or improved audio handling? or roles based audio effects mapping? Or a more customisable interface? Or a timecode indicator that isn't the size of postage stamp rendered in a stupid digital font?
"


You may have a point!


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David Cherniack
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:41:15 pm

Sorry x'ers. I agree. Pretty weak tea after what? 15 months of brewing?

If this were a Premiere or Avid update after that length of time users would be kicking down the doors, not swooning in the aisles.

Just say'n.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Chris Frantz
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:46:26 pm

Seriously, did roles receive zero updates? Timeline markers? Anything at all changed with timecode support? They published some basic 3D tools from Motion (which is already built into FCPX as a headless engine) but neglected the way more useful tracking? There must just be one developer in a room somewhere clutching his sides and laughing right now, I'm fully ready for another one of those Downfall dubs. What a mess.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:48:32 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "How is it that the major top line feature of a full dot release is a livetype style crazy 3D type renderer?"

Indeed. What kind of sad has-been still thinks that 3D text is the cool happening thing?

Or are Apple finally announcing that the done-to-death flat aesthetic is a thing of the past and we can all happily go back to the nineties?

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:57:23 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Indeed. What kind of sad has-been still thinks that 3D text is the cool happening thing? Or are Apple finally announcing that the done-to-death flat aesthetic is a thing of the past and we can all happily go back to the nineties?"

The latter.

"We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us."
- Marshall McLuhan

With good-looking 3D type easy to do, it will be done everywhere.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:10:00 pm

[Walter Soyka] "With good-looking 3D type easy to do, it will be done everywhere."

What should also be mentioned here, it that Apple in typical fashion have killed off the market for a high quality third party application in mObject. Because they always take such good care of third party developers ...

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:15:37 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "What should also be mentioned here, it that Apple in typical fashion have killed off the market for a high quality third party application in mObject."

No they haven't. The 3D stuff in X is really nice, but if you want to do anything other than text, you need mObject. mObject still gives you way more control over text, environments, surfaces etc. than the built in stuff.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:40:30 pm

but charlie - why in the hell are we here talking about 3D type? Three dimensional bloody type??? For a premier dot release front in line FCPX feature?

charlie, just, come on: I mean, I can't... god almighty

we're having a conversation about the headline 3D type feature. Read that sentence back charlie. they couldn't even figure out native cinema DNG? How in the hell could they not manage that? Inside a year? Is it slated for 2017 after they introduce full smiley face emojis to the type engine?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:10:03 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "we're having a conversation about the headline 3D type feature. Read that sentence back charlie."

You're talking about 3D text. We could just as easily talk about the ability to save effects/grades etc as effects presets, or the new masks, or the keyframing improvements, or the performance bumps, or the scopes, or the optical flow, or the dual GPU RED RAW processing, or the new camera formats they do support.

But what fun would that be? Personally I'm looking forward to animating my cats mouth in the new version of Pr. For my YouTube channel.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:19:27 pm

[Charlie Austin] "You're talking about 3D text."

Come on Charlie - Apple is the one deciding to talk about 3D text at the front of dot one release. Not me.

that is their headline disrupter for NAB. 3D text charlie. FCPX now boasts that to the world. After twelve months Apple FCPX development - witness the glory that is a 3D text module. As their dot one headline feature.

tell me your head didn't drop when you saw that list. You won't but I really really bet it did.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:26:11 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "tell me your head didn't drop when you saw that list. You won't but I really really bet it did."

Well, I actually kept reading the list. Seriously, it's like saying that the only thing in the yet to be released update to Pr is the ability to animate a cartoon.

FWIW, every title we make, usually in AE, is 3D, even if it's basically flat. I can now make titles in X's built in title tool that look just as good. It's gonna free up the gfx guy to do the more convoluted stuff...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:34:11 pm

Or just free up the graphics guy.


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Richard Herd
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:27:12 am

I like the humor. But they 3D module they've built is actually easiest to implement on text because it's tailor-made vector paths. And there is already a camera and light built in. It appears to me that a 3D Module is here in X. That's pretty friggin awesome iff it moves beyond text extrusion and the camera includes tracking. That's what 10.2.5?


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:33:39 am

[Richard Herd] "It appears to me that a 3D Module is here in X. That's pretty friggin awesome iff it moves beyond text extrusion and the camera includes tracking."

The 3D titles in FCP are Motion titles. From the Motion release notes:

•Flexible surface-shading with options for texture maps, diffuse and specular reflection,
and bump mapping
• Cast shadows from 3D text onto itself and other objects in a 3D scene
• Add multiple lights, cameras, and tracking to any 3D title
• In-camera glint effects
• Support for sequencing 3D text animations

Not inconceivable that more control will make its way into FCP...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Richard Herd
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:37:15 am

What I mean is: the demo I saw the guys were in X (not in Motion). Granted editors can jump to Motion for refinement and publish back to X. I think that's pretty huge really: a 3D module built into the NLE. I don't plan to use it because it's text only. But still...a 3D module in the NLE is pretty cool. I hope it grows up.


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:43:56 am
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:45:31 am

[Richard Herd] "What I mean is: the demo I saw the guys were in X (not in Motion). Granted editors can jump to Motion for refinement and publish back to X. I think that's pretty huge really: a 3D module built into the NLE. I don't plan to use it because it's text only. But still...a 3D module in the NLE is pretty cool. I hope it grows up.
"


Understood... My point, such as it is... is that it's basically the same module. So I can see them adding to the FCP X version, or at least making it available somehow without switching apps. Same with the new masks. Same as Motion, but without the tracking etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:48:45 am

[Richard Herd] "But still...a 3D module in the NLE is pretty cool."

Smoke has been offering that on the Mac since 2012.

And if you think 3D in editorial context is neat, you should see what Autodesk has put into Flame 2016!

http://www.autodesk.com/products/flame-family/features/flame-3d-visual-fx/a...

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Richard Herd
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:26:34 pm

I remember. I downloaded Smoke, took it for a lap. That's more 3D program with a NLE module. X flips that, on purpose, I suspect: NLE with a 3D module.

Flame?! I won't touch that ever. I can barely get C4D to work. ;)


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:56:06 am

[Richard Herd] "But still...a 3D module in the NLE is pretty cool."

what? so they can try what autodesk failed to do two years ago with smoke? Do you really think Apple have the team to land that? And we're talking about this off a lunatic live type boris red 3D type hail mary inclusion to validate a dot release?

does anyone on this forum today think apple are going to follow through on any of that? Realistically?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 1:10:19 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "what? so they can try what autodesk failed to do two years ago with smoke? Do you really think Apple have the team to land that? And we're talking about this off a lunatic live type boris red 3D type hail mary inclusion to validate a dot release?

does anyone on this forum today think apple are going to follow through on any of that? Realistically?"


Forgive me, but the only image that keeps popping into my head is that of Ignatius J. Reilly. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Scott Witthaus
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 10:17:11 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "And we're talking about this off a lunatic live type boris red 3D type hail mary inclusion to validate a dot release?"

Ah yes, the Adobe fan-kids huff and puff. Extremely entertaining.

;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Richard Herd
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:27:31 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "so they can try what autodesk failed to do two years ago with smoke? Do you really think Apple have the team to land that? And we're talking about this off a lunatic live type boris red 3D type hail mary inclusion to validate a dot release?

does anyone on this forum today think apple are going to follow through on any of that? Realistically?"


Yep.
Yep.
Nope.
Yep.
Yep.


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:02:26 am

[Charlie Austin] "Personally I'm looking forward to animating my cats mouth in the new version of Pr. For my YouTube channel."

I know you're kidding, but character animation is a totally valid use of Ae, and Character Animator is a promising tool which certainly took nothing away from Pr's development.

Look at the hoops people have been jumping through to do character animation in Ae before [link], then let's discuss again if Character Animator is on par with 3D text in Motion (which again, for the record, I think is a positive thing).

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:06:52 am

[Walter Soyka] "I know you're kidding, but character animation is a totally valid use of Ae, and Character Animator is a promising tool which certainly took nothing away from Pr's development."

I was, and I think it's a pretty cool/useful feature as well. :-) Looking forward to messing with it when it's released.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Cherniack
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:09:14 am

[Charlie Austin] "But what fun would that be? Personally I'm looking forward to animating my cats mouth in the new version of Pr. For my YouTube channel."

lol What fun! But I should point out that it's a separate app that hooks into After Effects, I believe.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:14:15 am

[David Cherniack] "lol What fun! But I should point out that it's a separate app that hooks into After Effects, I believe."

As long as I can make my cat spout profanity accurately that works for me. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jack Zahran
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:19:24 pm

3D Type wasn't the only additional feature. You seem to be hun g up on it, what about others?


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:23:07 pm

because it is literally the single craziest thing to lead a dot one editing platform release on.

If you don't think people's jaws are dropping all over the place - I have a bridge to sell you.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:47:19 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "What should also be mentioned here, it that Apple in typical fashion have killed off the market for a high quality third party application in mObject. Because they always take such good care of third party developers ..."

I see both sides of this argument, as the Ae team has historically gone the other way -- they'll avoid developing a feature if it's already been done by a third party, even if it SHOULD be part of the application.

This is a mixed blessing: sometimes it costs users features that they expect or that could be better implemented as first-party solutions than third-party solutions, but on the other hand, it's also great for users because it leads to a very robust third-party ecosystem.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Richard Herd
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:17:36 am

[Walter Soyka] "With good-looking 3D type easy to do, it will be done everywhere."

The issue is how the heck are they gonna match a brand among web, print, video. The only easy to do 3D type is in video? And here I'm assuming the flat aesthetic has some utility because it loads quickly on a smart phone.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:20:20 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:27:13 pm

the thing I find weird about it is that it feels like a touch ID Siri style feature. That Apple were motivated to produce something as a new nick nack to refresh public expectations? But this isn't an iphone right? What public are they speaking to?

it's supposed to be a professional editing system. How did they choose to pour resources into what I'm sure is a well developed 3D type engine, rather than say answering audio handling, customisability or God knows how many other things that have been signalled to them through back channels over the last 12 odd months?

who are Apple actually making this for? Who is supposed to be excited about that shot of new york with a 3D Times Roman Type sitting on it? Does this feature signal Apple's intent in the core edit markets they foresee for FCPX? What in the hell are those markets? Who are those people?

I think that has to be the craziest headline feature for an occasionally moribund professional editing software development team ever seen. it nearly feels perverse.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:34:00 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I think that has to be the craziest headline feature for an occasionally moribund professional editing software development team ever seen. it nearly feels perverse."

Ron Brinkmann's words still ring true in this context:

"And the features that high end customers need are often very very unsexy. They don’t look particularly good in a demo. See, here’s the thing with how features happen at Apple to a great extent – product development is often driven by how well things can be demoed. Maybe not explicitly – nobody ever told me to only design features that demoed well – but the nature of the organization effectively makes it work out that way. Because a lot of decisions about product direction make their way very far up the management hierarchy .... And so the first question that comes up is ‘how are we going to show this feature within the company?’ All the mid-level managers know that they’re going to have a limited window of time to convey what makes a product or a feature special to their bosses. So they either 1) make a sexy demo or 2) spend a lot of time trying to explain why some customer feels that some obscure feature is worth implementing. Guess which strategy works best?"

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:36:14 pm

yeah that was such a great article.

I kind of just can't get over it - I was actually sort of excited to think what they were brewing? they've come out with some stuff - like multi-cam and that. or the whole native CC they half turned over.

one way or another this really has to mean X is pages - it's just floating steady state in the apple software pond until they decide to blow it up again.

that felt like the FCP7 coloured markers release.
There's just no way, off the back of that, that they're not looking at the cloud for ecosystem video ala photos killing iphoto and aperture.
It's hard not to think FCPX is a dead man walking in a way. They're definitely not concerned with driving it in competition with Pr and Avid. not with the zany 3D type reveal to the world. It's a bit of a shame in a way.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Marcus Moore
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 1:30:59 pm

This is so unbelievable, but then again not for you Aindreas.

3D text is is the first non-pro specific dedicated feature (and I think it will see a lot of use in circles of working professionals) to appear in an update in YEARS. And you're going to lay them out for it. How about:

Multiple video scopes (an incredibly verbose and customizable version at that)
Improved masking
Color and Shape qualifiers for ALL effects layers (this is huge)
Custom Effects Presets
Color Correction moved into the Effects stack
Improved Keyframing
Improved Optical Flow
Better FX Plug Performance
R3D performance enhancement
New Camera Format support and performance improvements
Library level smart collections
Waveform redraw performance enhancement
Overall performance and stability

And that is a truncated version of the documented feature list. Not including undocumented improvements.


But, yup. Let's forget everything else in this release and just focus on the thing you don't like, and spin that out to posit your theory... AGAIN... that FCPX is bleeding a slow death.


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 1:46:04 pm

[Marcus Moore] "This is so unbelievable, but then again not for you Aindreas. 3D text is is the first non-pro specific dedicated feature (and I think it will see a lot of use in circles of working professionals) to appear in an update in YEARS. And you're going to lay them out for it"

I think it's a solid update, but Aindreas has a point, too. Look how Apple is promoting the update:

http://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/whats-new/

3D titles is above the fold. It's clearly a feature that's meant to demo fast and well and sell new copies of FCPX, but is it actually a daily use item? If so, what is Apple-as-auteur saying about FCP X? If not, was it a good use of development time?

(I know subscription isn't popular here, but this is an area where I think subscription aligns developers with users: keeping your existing users happy is just as important as acquiring new ones. Since marketing and development are largely inseparable, this means altering your product design priorities.)

While I'm happy to see Motion get a little love, I bet nearly everyone on this forum would have gladly diverted the development time that went into 3D titles toward a roles mixer or send to Motion.


[Marcus Moore] "Color and Shape qualifiers for ALL effects layers (this is huge)"

Yes, this is a really big and no one has discussed yet.

A boring, little feature that doesn't demo well and looks lame on the new features list, but packs huge power and that will get used every day. My favorite kind!

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Marcus Moore
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:04:59 pm

I think you're exactly right- 3D text is a good visual demo so it gets top billing on the page- it is what it is. But trying to build any larger case from that is folly.

One more consumer oriented feature at the top of a What's New page after 4 years of professionally focused feature improvements (including lots in the current release) is just giving 3D text too much weight- by a LONG shot.


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:12:46 pm

[Walter Soyka] " I bet nearly everyone on this forum would have gladly diverted the development time that went into 3D titles toward a roles mixer or send to Motion."

It seems like every "missing" feature/update being lamented here is related in some way to the timeline and/or Projects. In the last "point" versions Apple have updated The Browser ( 10.1-Libraries etc), the Inspector/Effects (10.2-FxPlug, Performance etc).

Not much has happened to the timeline. Do you think they're just ignoring what is likely the biggest bit to revamp? I don't.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:16:36 pm

[Charlie Austin] "t seems like every "missing" feature/update being lamented here is related in some way to the timeline and/or Projects. In the last "point" versions Apple have updated The Browser ( 10.1-Libraries etc), the Inspector/Effects (10.2-FxPlug, Performance etc). Not much has happened to the timeline. Do you think they're just ignoring what is likely the biggest bit to revamp? I don't."

I don't either, but everyone wants everything right now.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:53:37 pm

there's some stuff you'd think they could get done before 2019, given they've already done them:







http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Cherniack
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:41:35 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Not much has happened to the timeline. Do you think they're just ignoring what is likely the biggest bit to revamp? I don't."

Tracks! Thanks, Charlie. I'll remember you said it first :)

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:49:02 pm

[David Cherniack] "Tracks! Thanks, Charlie. I'll remember you said it first :)"

Exactly! :-D

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Mathis
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 12:05:38 am

Tracks?







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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 8:59:52 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "If they ever did any market research, does anyone think that a mad 3D type engine was top of anyone's list?"

I for one am excited to see a new Motion feature. If this functionality is extended beyond text layers in future releases, Motion would suddenly become a lot more interesting.

(I mentioned in another thread, you can extend this functionality a bit yourself: create a font with your logo, vector shape, etc., then extrude and treat your "text" in Motion.)

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Richard Herd
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:47:26 pm

[Walter Soyka] " this functionality is extended beyond text layers in future releases,"

It would seem the hard part is done, right? Take an object, in this case text and apply a texture, light, and coordinate.

The next logical question is: How do I turn a vector into a text? Thanks! (I guess I could google it but I'm interested in your technique :)


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:54:28 pm

[Richard Herd] "How do I turn a vector into a text?"

You need a font application that imports vectors (like EPS or SVG).

If you don't already have one, Font Forge is free and open source:
http://fontforge.github.io/en-US/

I'd love to put together a step-by-step document, but until I find the time, hopefully that will get you started.

Running this through a replicator could be fun...

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:56:02 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Running this through a replicator could be fun..."

I assume you saw this? lol

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/79619#79699

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:57:13 pm

[Charlie Austin] "I assume you saw this? lol https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/79619#79699"

Yes, indeed. But consider the creative opportunities that are opened up doing this with arbitrary vectors instead of just type!

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Mark Suszko
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 6:24:03 pm

(I mentioned in another thread, you can extend this functionality a bit yourself: create a font with your logo, vector shape, etc., then extrude and treat your "text" in Motion.)

Walter Soyka


How exactly does one DO that, Walter? Sounds like a fun hack.

Meanwhile, in the column designated "not sexy but useful every day", I am sorry they did not move the ball forward on closed captioning. There is a lot of programming and commercials being made, that by law needs to be captioned, and most methods used to do it are horrible kludges that take agonizing amounts of time to implement. One company holds a huge monopoly on the way captioning is done, and I don't think that's fair to the hearing-impaired community or to us folks trying to serve them.

But there's another side of easy and cheap captioning that should make it something on everyone's wish list; when you have good captioning that's easy to do, all the spoken words in your programming become easy to keyword search, not just on your own NLE, as a workflow improvement tool, but out in the world, when the programming is released; those cc files become a searchable transcript available to the world thru google and yahoo. Finding quotes and finding shots will advance exponentially.


So I beg those fine developers in Cupertino and elsewhere, please get cracking on a native closed captioning functionality within FCPX, and you'll find a lot of institutional users will start specifying purchase of this NLE by name.


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:06:59 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "How is it that the major top line feature of a full dot release is a livetype style crazy 3D type renderer?"

Because you can't take a pretty picture of the performance improvements which were done. Or the enhanced FxPlug and fcpxml functionality. That stuff alone is worth the full dot release number.

This reminds me of something....

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/79455#79505

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:16:41 pm
Last Edited By Simon Ubsdell on Apr 13, 2015 at 9:19:05 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Because you can't take a pretty picture of the performance improvements which were done. Or the enhanced FxPlug and fcpxml functionality. That stuff alone is worth the full dot release number."

Great to see that Apple have finally given us ...

Playhead Sync Replace Edit

Gang Sync

Multiple persistent timecode displays (that actually show you the right TC most of the time)

Relinking to sources with different start TC, lengths, track configuration, etc.

I knew they'd get there eventually - even if it has taken four years.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


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Bret Williams
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:27:48 pm

I for one have never asked for one single thing you mentioned. The absolute number one missing thing is Motion integration in my book. Hands down. Didn't get it. But I think they've made some inroads in that area and I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that in a 10.2.2 release after a bug fix release.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 10:44:52 pm

[Bret Williams] "I for one have never asked for one single thing you mentioned."

well done there. hold strong. amazing nineties 3D type is incoming. It's about to push the state of editing forward.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ronny Courtens
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 11:40:24 pm

I will leave the blabber about titles to those who have the time for this, but in the meantime we have been testing native R3D and MXF performance. Real-time full debayer playback (Best Quality settings) with native R3D at any size with multiple streams is pretty impressive.

We have also tested a 50-minute 12-angle 1080p25 native MXF multicam timeline streamed from a TB RAID on a maxed out iMac running 10.1.4 and we got spinning beach balls after 1 hour. Had to restart the app to get things smooth again. Ran the same test with 10.2 and the thing has been running for 5 hours now without any issues. Pretty impressive as well. Been screen recording the tests, will publish them on FCP.co.

My friends at Metronome in Denmark have been testing 10.2 with 20 editors working on the same media at the same time via their new shared storage system. They are absolutely thrilled about the performance boost. Will publish an article about this very soon now.

- Ronny


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 13, 2015 at 11:53:34 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "We have also tested a 50-minute 12-angle 1080p25 native MXF multicam timeline streamed from a TB RAID on a maxed out iMac running 10.1.4 and we got spinning beach balls after 1 hour. Had to restart the app to get things smooth again. Ran the same test with 10.2 and the thing has been running for 5 hours now without any issues."

Performance is a creative feature. "Works like it's supposed to" doesn't look great on the tin, but this is exactly the kind of development that everyday users need. I'm glad to see this happening in CC, and I'm glad to see it happening here.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Oliver Peters
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:21:56 am

"What kind of sad has-been still thinks that 3D text is the cool happening thing?"

According to Apple's info, 65% of FCP X users use it for making their final titles. 3D text templates were added to enhance the process for these users. It's actually pretty sweet for editors (think local market retail, for example) who want a bit of glitz built in. After all, there's Style and Chrominator ;-)

On a more serious note, there are a lot of under-the-hood improvements that hopefully will pay off in performance improvements. In my case, it's next week before I can test that (after NAB). Other items include improved RED support, anamorphic detection/correction, color board changes, and custom effects presets saving.

In Compressor, there's a new preset for iTunes packages. There's a clearly a vision within Apple for innovative filmmakers to use FCP X and distribute via iTunes. This feature is designed to make that easier, although you still want to go to iTunes through one of their third-party portals.

I know a lot of people wanted more, but it seems clear that Apple feels pretty comfortable with the basic model as is. At least for now.

Meanwhile, Resolve 12 looks good, too. Editing performance seems better in the demos than R11, but we'll see for real, when it gets out into the wild. Personally I'd still want to use a different tool for long-form, creative editing, but others may be happy with R12 as their only tool. At least the BMD vision supports it as a finishing tool when compositing is at a minimum. I think it's now moved to editing and grading tool, rather than a grading tool that *can* edit.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 10:15:25 am

[Oliver Peters] "According to Apple's info, 65% of FCP X users use it for making their final titles. 3D text templates were added to enhance the process for these users. It's actually pretty sweet for editors (think local market retail, for example) who want a bit of glitz built in."

Yes, indeed. I suspect these guys will be graduating to 3D Text straight away:







Just to, you know, keep it classy.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:42:54 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Just to, you know, keep it classy.
"


Whether it's classy or not, 3D text is pretty much everywhere right now.



-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:13:26 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I can't imagine what Apple thought they were doing giving us all that flat rubbish - obviously a crazy rush of blood to the head. So glad to see they've come to their senses.
"


lol. Look, I don't think the 3D stuff is a big deal. The other stuff that's been done to the guts of the app is what makes me happy. I'm just saying that it's not useless. Whether one approves of the aesthetic or not.

Let's pretend for a minute that Apple has not given up, and revamps the timeline. Roles mixing/bussing, proper replace edit, trimming tweaks, TC readout improved/debugged etc etc. Would that make everyone here happy? I'm gonna say no.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:22:24 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Would that make everyone here happy? I'm gonna say no.
"


I'm not difficult - I just want the things that I want, and I don't give a damn about the stuff that other people want that I don't want! What's unreasonable about that?

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:35:56 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:42:18 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I'm not difficult - I just want the things that I want, and I don't give a damn about the stuff that other people want that I don't want! What's unreasonable about that?"

Nothing at all. I'm just a Pollyanna - I think FCP X is perfect just as it is, Every time Apple adds anything to it I am thrilled and can think of nothing more they could do... and then they do something else! I love them. Nothing wrong with that is there?

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to work. Pr and FCP 7 for me today! They too are perfect apps! I am full of love!
;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:40:33 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Let's pretend for a minute that Apple has not given up, and revamps the timeline. Roles mixing/bussing, proper replace edit, trimming tweaks, TC readout improved/debugged etc etc. Would that make everyone here happy? I'm gonna say no."

Of course not. How would we do 3D text? :)

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Mitch Ives
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 6:08:37 am

[Walter Soyka] "Performance is a creative feature. "Works like it's supposed to" doesn't look great on the tin, but this is exactly the kind of development that everyday users need. I'm glad to see this happening in CC, and I'm glad to see it happening here."

well said...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:25:50 am

[Ronny Courtens] "We have also tested a 50-minute 12-angle 1080p25 native MXF multicam timeline streamed from a TB RAID on a maxed out iMac running 10.1.4 and we got spinning beach balls after 1 hour. Had to restart the app to get things smooth again. Ran the same test with 10.2 and the thing has been running for 5 hours now without any issues. Pretty impressive as well. Been screen recording the tests, will publish them on FCP.co. "

overall, you'd have to say the ability to functionally play 1080P multi-cam video for an extended period after the dot one release re-start sounds right on the money. throw some headline 3D titles in the mix and then you've got a veritable next gen casserole.




http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:16:38 am

[Ronny Courtens] "We have also tested a 50-minute 12-angle 1080p25 native MXF multicam timeline streamed from a TB RAID on a maxed out iMac running 10.1.4 and we got spinning beach balls after 1 hour. Had to restart the app to get things smooth again. Ran the same test with 10.2 and the thing has been running for 5 hours now without any issues. Pretty impressive as well. Been screen recording the tests, will publish them on FCP.co.
"


Just curious Ronny, but what MXF are you using? 10.2 blew a hole in our workflow as it now rewraps MXF to MOV (ugh) on import. There's no option to leave in place.

You can drag/drop MXF in and it works like in 10.1.4, but using the import window results in a rewrap.

I can manually dig out the plugin, and the rewrapping goes away, but that seems crazy to do across all installs.

Do you use Sony XDCam or XAVC MXF files from cards/disc?

I'll admit, I'm a little mad at this one. It took soooo loooong for Apple to embrace MXF and now the importer rewraps to mov. I'm hoping it's an oversight.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:38:20 am

Here's pictures.

Here's with the new update (note the lack of leave in place in the options):



And here's what happens when I tear out the plugin manually (note the addition of leave in place, this is how 10.1.4 works as well, and what I want):



If if you don't drag and drop, a 2TB shoot now becomes a 4TB shoot just by importing. I thought we were done with this.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:17:26 pm

Jeremy,

I had removed the PDZK plugin because it was causing conflicts when importing F-55 footage. So the tests were done without the plugin. We are getting Leave Files in Place when importing from card (XDCAM HD 422 MXF) and we can work with MXF as we did before. Only faster now.

- Ronny


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 3:52:34 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "I had removed the PDZK plugin because it was causing conflicts when importing F-55 footage. So the tests were done without the plugin. We are getting Leave Files in Place when importing from card (XDCAM HD 422 MXF) and we can work with MXF as we did before. Only faster now."

Ronny, thanks for the response.

And this is with 10.2? The Sony downloaded PDZK ins't on my machines, but there is an "XDCam" plugin within the FCPX application that seems to be the culprit (which is new, and a feature that Apple has added in 10.2, according to the release notes).

Are you saying you removed this supplied plugin manually or that you "uninstalled" the one from Sony?

Sorry to be confusing.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 10:52:30 am

[Ronny Courtens] "I had removed the PDZK plugin because it was causing conflicts when importing F-55 footage. So the tests were done without the plugin. We are getting Leave Files in Place when importing from card (XDCAM HD 422 MXF) and we can work with MXF as we did before. Only faster now."

Ronny, any chance you can hit me up offline?

editstation at gmail


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Richard Herd
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:34:03 am

Yeah, the type is silly. Perhaps you're missing the obvious: a built-in 3D module with cameras and lights is not silly. The feature needs to grow beyond text and include tracking, and I predict that's where the puck will be.


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Charlie Austin
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:49:36 am
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Apr 14, 2015 at 12:50:35 am

For Aindreas... ;-)

https://twitter.com/PeterWiggins/status/587726549174132736

Who would be stupid enough to shove the new 3D text into a replicator? Oh hang on, it works…



-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Mark Dobson
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 7:18:03 am

Some folks have mentioned the affect this update will have on 3rd party developers such as Mobject but lets spare a thought for Coremelt who have just had the legs cut off their SliceX plugin with most of the functionality having been replicated by the masks update included in 10.2.

However as demonstrated in Ripple Trainings overview of this update Apple's offering relies on manual tracking and adjustment of masks through keyframes, whereas with Slice X, powered by Mocha, you just draw a shape and hit track.


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tony west
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 2:07:54 pm

Have you guys that have downloaded noticed this...

Very… snappy. There have been some legitimate past gripes about slow/stuttery UI, memory leakage, slowdowns, and just general sluggishness with certain projects. In some cases even crusty old FCP 7 felt more responsive than X. Well, that is no more. Done.


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Jim Giberti
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 5:23:58 pm

Good stuff, but support for Cinema DNG still not considered important...really?


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David Mathis
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 11:54:05 pm

I hear you. At least the voice inside my head would quit saying, "Hey now! There is always Resolve after all, deal with it!" Apple, please add support for Cinema DNG raw, don't feel like seeing the psychiatrist or going to the nut house.


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Jim Giberti
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 12:22:59 am

Yeah, I use Resolve to convert and do basic color temp and exposure, transcode to ProRes and export for FCPX editing.

With Apple's focus on evolving the color board, masks etc., all the more reason why I'm sure many of us would like the option of the simplified workflow, staying within X for a lot/most work.
With that in mind it would be nice to add temp control to the color board if they decide to support DNG.

I'm thinking maybe more of us produce in Cinema DNG than, say, Red at this point?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 12:47:57 am

[Jim Giberti] "I'm thinking maybe more of us produce in Cinema DNG than, say, Red at this point?"

I don't know anyone that shoots CinemaDNG. There's like a thousand more things I'd liked worked on more than CinemaDNG support, but that's the way that goes.

I suppose if you own a camera that shoots CinemaDNG, there's nothing you'd like more supported in FCPX, but that's the way that goes. :)

Having said this, someone will call tomorrow and say they are bringing over a CinemaDNG project.

Thanks, Obama.

https://vine.co/v/OPq02dpidBM


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Jim Giberti
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 1:03:07 am
Last Edited By Jim Giberti on Apr 15, 2015 at 1:05:41 am

But much of Apple's FCPX market shoots with Black Magic Cameras (we do) and much of their market aren't dedicated editors but people that do full production (we do.)

I'd bet that day to day, more people using FCPX are working in footage from BM cameras than Red. It's become a more affordable and common means of capture, like the democratization of X and Motion for a few bucks at the App store.

Again maybe not for editing facilities but definitely for independents and small shops, and that's the core of their demo.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 1:52:42 am

[Jim Giberti] "But much of Apple's FCPX market shoots with Black Magic Cameras (we do) and much of their market aren't dedicated editors but people that do full production (we do.)

I'd bet that day to day, more people using FCPX are working in footage from BM cameras than Red. It's become a more affordable and common means of capture, like the democratization of X and Motion for a few bucks at the App store.

Again maybe not for editing facilities but definitely for independents and small shops, and that's the core of their demo."


Perhaps. I really have no idea what the bulk of FCPX users, dedicated editors or not, shoot or edit with. My guess would be some sort of Canon or Panasonic Gh4/DSLR varietal, and ProRes.

I haven't seen a BM camera in the wild. We are full service production, and hire a smattering of DPs, I don't know anyone that uses it is all I'm saying. I don't know how high on the list CinemaDNG is. It seems like Blackmagic could be able to write their own import plugin and codec, just like Red does, but who knows?

Jeremy


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David Mathis
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 2:21:04 am

Fair point.


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tony west
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 3:15:06 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I haven't seen a BM camera in the wild. "

I haven't either.

Every time I turn around somebody has the c300

and now with that c300 mark II for 16k I expect to see even more of them.


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 5:47:07 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I haven't seen a BM camera in the wild. We are full service production, and hire a smattering of DPs, I don't know anyone that uses it is all I'm saying."

I know a handful of folks who use BMD cameras for corporate work, including me from time to time. But these cameras seem to be more popular with indie filmmakers. Even then, I think most people shoot Prores though. I think you might see greater uptake of the Ursa Mini. If the 4.6k model ships on time with few issues, I think it has the potential to dominate it's niche.

[Jeremy Garchow] " I don't know how high on the list CinemaDNG is. It seems like Blackmagic could be able to write their own import plugin and codec, just like Red does, but who knows?"

Cinema DNG is an open standard though. It seems weird to my that Apple doesn't support it.

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 3:06:15 pm

[Shawn Miller] "But these cameras seem to be more popular with indie filmmakers"

So is FCPX popular with indie film makers, and does that make up a bulk of Apple's users, do you think?

[Shawn Miller] "Cinema DNG is an open standard though. It seems weird to my that Apple doesn't support it."

MXF is an open source standard, too. It took FOREVA for Apple to support MXF. I think that if BM really wanted to, they could write an importer and make it happen. Instead, they are writing their own edit and color correction tool with full support.

And by the way, just for the record, most people I talk to around town, and the people that they talk to, are going with Pr CC. Everyone looks at me like I'm that guy that actually likes FCPX. It's allright, i can take it. :)

I do feel like part of the motivation is from a comfort zone of an easier transition from the Legend of FCP, which is understandable. Colorists, the pros, are moving away from Resolve it seems, and going to Baselight. I get the sense that some of them are kinda pissed/unsure about the acquisition of DaVinci by decklink, inc.


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 4:57:08 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Shawn Miller] "But these cameras seem to be more popular with indie filmmakers"

So is FCPX popular with indie film makers, and does that make up a bulk of Apple's users, do you think?"


Yes, I see a lot of FCPX users on the BMD forums. I get the sense that most of them are debayering their raw footage in Resolve though. Lightroom seems to be a popular option for doing this as well.

[Jeremy Garchow] "MXF is an open source standard, too. It took FOREVA for Apple to support MXF. I think that if BM really wanted to, they could write an importer and make it happen. Instead, they are writing their own edit and color correction tool with full support."

Yeah... truthfully, I thought that was strange too.... that and image sequences, seem like odd things to leave out support for.

I don't disagree that Blackmagic could probably write a cDNG importer for FCPX... but so could Digital Bolex or Kinefinity. But why would they do that? Apple has way more engineering resources than any of them.

[Jeremy Garchow] "And by the way, just for the record, most people I talk to around town, and the people that they talk to, are going with Pr CC. Everyone looks at me like I'm that guy that actually likes FCPX. It's allright, i can take it. :)"

lol - I sympathize completely. I was using Vegas years before a lot of editors even knew what it was... it didn't do a lot for my street cred. :-)

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 5:27:27 pm

[Shawn Miller] "it didn't do a lot for my street cred. :-)"

Well, shoot. Street cred's all we have in the post game! hahaha!

[Shawn Miller] "I don't disagree that Blackmagic could probably write a cDNG importer for FCPX... but so could Digital Bolex or Kinefinity. But why would they do that? Apple has way more engineering resources than any of them."

It's true, but that's like saying Adobe should write all their own filter plugins and not rely on third parties.

There's an actual camera importer API that Apple has created. There's a new format that comes out nearly every day. I can see Apple's stance. Avid has somewhat offloaded this responsibility too, with AMA.


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 6:06:38 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Well, shoot. Street cred's all we have in the post game! hahaha!"

No doubt. :-)

[Jeremy Garchow] "
It's true, but that's like saying Adobe should write all their own filter plugins and not rely on third parties.

There's an actual camera importer API that Apple has created. There's a new format that comes out nearly every day. I can see Apple's stance. Avid has somewhat offloaded this responsibility too, with AMA."


I see your point. Still, it does seem odd for Apple to depend on a direct competitor to add support for an open format. If the BMD cameras shot in TIFF sequences, would you feel the same way?

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 6:12:44 pm

[Shawn Miller] "If the BMD cameras shot in TIFF sequences, would you feel the same way?"

No, I'd still throw it the lake! :)


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 6:17:22 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Shawn Miller] "If the BMD cameras shot in TIFF sequences, would you feel the same way?"

No, I'd still throw it the lake! :)"


I take it that you won't be adopting the Ursa mini? :-)

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 8:49:02 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Apr 15, 2015 at 9:14:23 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I take it that you won't be adopting the Ursa mini? :-)"

No plans at this time, but life moves pretty fast.

If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.







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Walter Soyka
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 5:38:01 pm

[Shawn Miller] "that and image sequences, seem like odd things to leave out support for. "

Is the BMD workflow DNG image sequences, or is there some kind of container?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 6:15:28 pm

[Walter Soyka] "[Shawn Miller] "that and image sequences, seem like odd things to leave out support for. "

Is the BMD workflow DNG image sequences, or is there some kind of container?"


Nope, it's just an image sequence. It's one of the things that first attracted me to the BM cinema cameras.

Shawn



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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 1:54:48 am

I went to a demo at NAB today and I could easily see FCPX becoming very popular with ad agencies and even in the TV promo world. The big question is, as it always is in a business environment, will Apple all of the sudden decide to bail?

Tim


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Scott Witthaus
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 9:44:18 am

[TImothy Auld] "I went to a demo at NAB today and I could easily see FCPX becoming very popular with ad agencies and even in the TV promo world."

Not at NAB but seeing exactly this as well. Dig through a lot of the PR static the other two "A"'s are putting out and one can see X gaining a lot of ground.

[TImothy Auld] "The big question is, as it always is in a business environment, will Apple all of the sudden decide to bail?"

Then I guess you are left with Premiere. Sigh.

;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Darren Roark
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 16, 2015 at 1:21:26 am

[TImothy Auld] "The big question is, as it always is in a business environment, will Apple all of the sudden decide to bail?
"


How many weird half baked permutations of Avid were EOL'd suddenly? Several off the top of my head. At a former place I work at the owner bought several Mojo's just a couple months before they killed support.

Seeing how FCP 7 still somehow manages to work in Yosemite five years after it's last update and the remaining six years left of the promised development cycle for FCPX, I'd say people are safe giving FCP X a go.


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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 16, 2015 at 4:00:33 am

You have had a good experience running FCP 7 in Yosemite? All I've heard are horror stories. And Apple does have a monumentally bad reputation in the business world. There simply is no question about that.

Tim


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Scott Witthaus
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 16, 2015 at 10:10:46 am

[TImothy Auld] "And Apple does have a monumentally bad reputation in the business world. There simply is no question about that.
"


Can you elaborate? What business world?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 2:32:14 pm

All of the business world that is wary of forced upgrades, sudden EOL's and a general problem with Apple's not giving a damn about any consequence the same might cause. So, pretty much all of the business world.

Tim


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Scott Witthaus
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 5:18:20 pm

[TImothy Auld] "All of the business world that is wary of forced upgrades, sudden EOL's and a general problem with Apple's not giving a damn about any consequence the same might cause."

Do we know this for fact? Where is this information? I see a sh**-ton of iPads out there in the business world too...

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 8:04:15 pm

I pads are a convenient ancillary tool that some business people use and are inexpensive enough that even if the employer has purchased them for employees they relatively inexpensive and are easily replaceable. But when was the last time you walked into a Fortune 500 company and saw a whole bunch of Mac's computers lined up? My guess is never.

Apple has very little penetration in the enterprise market. I know this for a fact. They has about 8% of global enterprise spending on computers and hand held devices, the vast majority of that being devices.

Tim


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Scott Witthaus
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 8:23:49 pm

My question still stands. Where are you getting your information? Personal observation? If so, that's cool, but needs to be taken in context. No biggie, just when broad statements like that are made, it's interesting to find out the source.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 10:09:23 pm

Are you kidding me? Your citation is that you see a sh*t ton of ipads out there and you are taxing me about my sources? It is well known that Apple has never made inroads in Enterprise. They don't want too. They do pretty well without it. But are you seriously telling me that Apple does have Enterprise penetration? Everyone knows that they do not. My sources are the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, PC Magazine and a hundred others. What are your sources that tell me they do. Oh wait - you don't have any, do you?

Tim


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Steve Connor
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 10:02:10 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Apple has very little penetration in the enterprise market. I know this for a fact. They has about 8% of global enterprise spending on computers and hand held devices, the vast majority of that being devices.
"


I do a lot of work with IBM who have recently partnered with Apple to develop enterprise Apps, apparently it's going very well.

Since BYOD has started becoming prevalent I have noticed that there are more iPads and MacBooks than ever in the businesses I visit.


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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 10:14:10 pm

Not impinging on Microsoft's stranglehold - even the tiniest bit - on IT departments globally.

Tim


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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 10:27:46 pm

But if you want to log on to a company computer you're not logging on to a Mac. Perhaps it's different in the UK, but not here in Freedom's Land. MS rules in big companies. Period.

Tim


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Brett Sherman
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 22, 2015 at 12:27:39 pm

[TImothy Auld] "MS rules in big companies. Period."

In our organization everyone wants Macs, but the IT department doesn't allow them to get Macs without some sort of special exemption. Our floor, communications, is the only one that gets Macs. Everyone is jealous of us.

The real stranglehold is IT departments trying to make life easy for themselves, if it were based on efficiency and the desire of the actual workers there would be a different reality.


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 22, 2015 at 5:33:29 pm

[Brett Sherman] "The real stranglehold is IT departments trying to make life easy for themselves, if it were based on efficiency and the desire of the actual workers there would be a different reality."

Well... to be fair. IT is a difficult, expensive, mission critical, thankless job that the average worker doesn't understand. Have you actually asked the people responsible for deploying and maintaining your systems why it's such a big deal to support Macs in the fleet? I know some companies support heterogeneous computing environments really well, others just don't have the bandwidth or expertise. Maybe your IT department has legitimate reasons for trying to keep their users on as few platforms as possible.

Shawn



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Shawn Miller
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 17, 2015 at 10:54:14 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Apr 17, 2015 at 10:56:40 pm

[Steve Connor] "[TImothy Auld] "Apple has very little penetration in the enterprise market. I know this for a fact. They has about 8% of global enterprise spending on computers and hand held devices, the vast majority of that being devices.
"

I do a lot of work with IBM who have recently partnered with Apple to develop enterprise Apps, apparently it's going very well.

Since BYOD has started becoming prevalent I have noticed that there are more iPads and MacBooks than ever in the businesses I visit."


Yeah, that's pretty standard for IBM. They're using Apple in the same way they used Red Hat in the mid 2000's - to compete with MS and partners in the datacenter. In this case, they're getting into banking, retail and airlines with solutions for mobile using Apple hardware. Those are huge opportunities, and some companies are doing big business there already. Regarding hardware, Apple is still a pretty minor player there. There are more Macs in the enterprise to be sure, but it's still over 90% Windows "out there". BYOD has actually been a good thing for MS, because it strengthens their cloud and SaaS story. Anywhere, anytime, any device. When you log into Lync, Exchange, Office 365 or OneDrive, MS doesn't necessarily care what your OS is... they care that you're logging into Lync, Exchange, Office 365 or OneDrive. :-)

Shawn



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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 22, 2015 at 1:04:27 am

Oh my goodness, Scott - what happened to you? I thought you saw a sh*t ton of ipads our there in the business world and that proved that Apple was - at least - coming up in that world. What happened? Did you find out that Apple has no more than 8% penetration in the enterprise world? And did you just decide not to acknowledge that point?

Tim


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Scott Witthaus
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 22, 2015 at 10:49:59 am

[TImothy Auld] "Did you find out that Apple has no more than 8% penetration in the enterprise world? "

We are veering wildly OT here! :-)

Here is another quote from you: " And Apple does have a monumentally bad reputation in the business world. "
You changed from reputation to marketshare. Which one is it? Marketshare and reputation are two different things. One is qualitative, the other quantitative. My sources are simply observation, I admit. But there are a few articles out there to support it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-ipad-totally-changed-the-world-in-ju...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/technology/21tablet.html?_r=0

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apples-latest-ipads-why-business-use-will-ulti...

Anyway, apologies in veering OT.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Shawn Miller
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 22, 2015 at 5:16:19 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Apr 22, 2015 at 5:35:20 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "[TImothy Auld] "Did you find out that Apple has no more than 8% penetration in the enterprise world? "

We are veering wildly OT here! :-)

Here is another quote from you: " And Apple does have a monumentally bad reputation in the business world. "
You changed from reputation to marketshare. Which one is it? Marketshare and reputation are two different things. One is qualitative, the other quantitative. My sources are simply observation, I admit. But there are a few articles out there to support it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-ipad-totally-changed-the-world-in-ju.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/technology/21tablet.html?_r=0

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apples-latest-ipads-why-business-use-will-ulti.....

Anyway, apologies in veering OT."


Yeah, those were great attention getting headlines two years ago. Since then however, PC sales have stabilized while tablet sales have slowed. BYOD has undoubtedly brought more iPads into the enterprise, but they really haven't (as predicted) become the device of choice for the mobile worker. I know a few large enterprise businesses in town where, people can choose between devices (Mac or PC, tablet or notebook)... most are choosing Windows 8 on a notebook. Where you might see iPads deployed in a real business environment, are as part of some kind of "solution", like a point of sale application, or as part of a customer relationship management system, but you're just as likely (if not more) to see Windows devices in those same scenarios.

Shawn



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TImothy Auld
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 23, 2015 at 7:46:06 pm

Wildly off topic or not, yes, your sources are only observation. Mine are quite easily looked up on many trusted sources. 8% is the long view of Apple's foray into the business world. Not a single one of the links you included in your last post dispute that in any way. Stop the professorial BS and admit that Apple has no more than 8% Enterprise use anywhere in the world. Everyone, except you, seems to know this.

Tim


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Darren Roark
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 16, 2015 at 5:08:52 pm

To clarify, my main point is that it's been five years since 'legacy' FCP development stopped, yet it is still functional after four new 10.x releases. A half a decade and it still works is hardly Apple 'suddenly pulling the plug'.

It's worked fine for me opening archived feature film projects and cleaning them up for getting them into FCP X. It's 3rd party plugins that are no longer compatible with the OS that are often the problem.

Installing Yosemite over an existing OS with FCP 7 installed can be a problem for some, but it works fine with a fresh install.


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Helmut Kobler
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 14, 2015 at 10:46:16 pm

I noticed the faster performance as well, Tony, but find it hard to be thrilled about it because it should have been there much earlier. It's 2015 and I've been running on a near-top-of-the-line system and X was laggy when working on 3 min projects with a couple of prores layers. Just inexcusable.

That Apple finally fixed it doesn't take away from the shamefulness of Apple releasing the last crippled version and leaving users with it for months. I really wonder if Apple can be trusted. Where are the high standards Apple used to have?

-------------------
Los Angeles Cameraman
Canon C300 (x2), Zeiss CP.2 lenses, P2 Varicam, etc.
http://www.lacameraman.com


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tony west
Re: One of a thousand posts with some 10.2 info....
on Apr 15, 2015 at 3:10:57 am

[Helmut Kobler] "I noticed the faster performance as well,"

Thanks Helmut, I was really wondering about that. Glad to hear it's improved and look forward to downloading it soon.


[Helmut Kobler] "Where are the high standards Apple used to have?"

This is a good question : [


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