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OT: So what will be the next cool conference?

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Scott Witthaus
OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 1, 2015 at 8:07:46 pm

Since this is just a general discussion and debate forum that for some reason has FCPX in it's name, I wanted to throw out a question about conferences that maybe cannot be answered.

For example:

NAB is NAB. At least it's in Vegas where there are enough rooms, hotels, cabs, etc. Gigantic but in a place that can handle it. And there is a very good learning/networking/purchasing to noise ratio. Not going this year but will return next year.

CES. See above.

SXSW. Done as far as being edgy and cool. Too big for Austin. Not nearly enough hotels, cabs, or mass transit. I went five years ago and it was getting really big. I quit going after last year because it got to the point that the PITA factor (pain in the ass) was greater than what I was getting out of it.

And many many more that I can't even name.

So, what's next? What's out there in terms of conferences, meetings and/or get-togethers that will be a "must-go"? The thing you can say 10 years from now "I was there in year 2...."

That's what I want to find...

- Scott

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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David Mathis
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 1, 2015 at 8:40:12 pm

Not able to attend NAB or CES this year as well, perhaps next year. I would love to attend any conference or conventions that relate to film. Yes, that is not a typo, said film, any format. Just purchased a Rhonda cam from the good folks over at pro8mm.com and it arrived yesterday. Crazy as it may seem, film is a big interest. I am not a dinosaur.

The magnetic timeline, it's magnetic-o-matic!


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TImothy Auld
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 1, 2015 at 8:59:49 pm

Anyone who looks at the first round of LOTR's vs the recent Hobbit series loves film. Millions of pixels on film, thousands in 4K. Film is so much better in so many ways but I'm afraid it's almost gone. The cost savings are just too great. Last thing I saw shot on film in NYC was the new Spielberg movie coming out in the fall. And he is one of a very small group, getting smaller by the second.

Tim


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Bret Williams
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 12:09:05 am

And since Spielberg isn't editing film on a flatbed, but instead scanning it into a computer, what Rez is it being scanned in to?

I always thought the true benefit of film was its latitude. Not necessarily its resolution.

Doesn't 4k have 9million pixels? Or are you talking about 1 scan line having thousands?


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TImothy Auld
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 12:28:46 pm

Latitude is certainly wildly greater with film but my understanding of the science is that the increased latitude exists because of the greater resolution. The light simply has many more places to go, so to speak. Which is why a low key shot with a single light source is almost always more pleasing to the eye when shot on film as opposed to video. But I am not a scientist, just a simple country filmmaker. So I could be wrong.

As for Sir Steven, he has a long relationship with Michael Kahn who is one of the last editors who cuts on film. Or I guess I should say used to cut on film. He finally started using Avid on War Horse and talked Spielberg into sticking with it. But only a few short years ago they were still cutting on film.

Tim


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Bret Williams
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 1:17:58 pm

I don't think latitude increases with pixel density. Certainly it is different with different emulsions, but if it were based in density then super8 would have less latitude than 35mm because of it's size. Grain might effect range.

film used to have much more latitude than video. IOW you could shoot a scene with bright sun, and dark shadows and both the sky and shadows would retain their detail without being blown out or clipped. Exposing video for the same scene would result in the sky being blown out well beyond 100ire and just clipped with no detail to be salvaged. The shadows would have the same effect. Beyond a certain darkness there simply wasn't any more detail. Which is why video requires more lighting. We have to light the subject to better match the sky if we want to retain sky detail, but that increases the contrast between the subject and shadows. So we need to throw more light in the shadows. Basically, everything needs to be within a certain number of stops. Let's say video can get 2 stops above and below the exposure before something is clipped to white or black. It's been my understanding that film would be able to capture more like 3 or 4 stops above and below. (Just example numbers here, I don't have details)

But it's my understanding that when shooting log and raw you are now getting the latitude that was previously reserved for film. We used to shoot film and we had to then map that greater range to 0-100 ire for video. That's essentially what we're doing when shooting c-log and applying a lut.

As for resolution, I'm pretty sure digital has met or exceeded 35mm film. But if the film is going to be scanned and processed as 4k or 2k anyway, then it doesn't matter much. Unless you wanted to blow something up in the transfer process. Kinda like shooting 4k to edit in 1080.

I think film is just a choice of a look. Just like 24p. I was surprised the Walking dead shoots film. They tested all the digital cameras and decided zombies look best shot super16. 35mm was their second choice if they needed higher resolution for digital cgi. If super16 is just enough to hold up to the 1080p digital pipeline then 35mm seems it would be like 4k.


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TImothy Auld
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 1:54:02 pm

The larger the negative the higher resolution film is going to have and I think mathematically speaking film does have a higher resolution than even 8K, but there are all kinds of arguments about what the human eye can perceive. In the end it does appear to be a subjective choice (which I think is what you are saying.) To my eye projects that originated on film are more pleasing to the eye - despite being transferred to digital formats later - than those that originated on video. Again I would cite
the LOTR series vs the Hobbit series as a good example. But the difference has diminished over time and I'm sure it will continue in that direction.

Tim


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 1:21:24 pm

Hi Timothy,

from what I've heard in an video-interview with Spielberg, he indeed said he cutted War Horse digitally, but he didn't like it and I remember (but I'm not sure) that he said he would go back to flatbed cutting for the next one.

He's reasoning was nice though. He said: with flatbed cutting, I ask some cuts and adjustments, and I go for a 30-60 minute walk because it takes that long to make those adjustments. In that walk I can process a bit more on my decisions, think about them, think about the general cut. Then I get back with those thoughts.
With digital cutting, it all happens instantly, and I can't reflect on it anymore.

Hard to argue with a filmmaker like Spielberg. If that is what works for them, I hope he can hold on to it, if he keeps producing results like that.


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Michael Phillips
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 1:43:10 pm

I spent a lot of time with editors and directors during the film editing to NLE editing back in the early 90's. Lot so interesting reasons as to the reluctance, hesitation, as well as a whole lot of upside. I had a great one on one lunch with Walter Murch, and we talked about our editing styles - he mentioned cutting without sound and I mentioned cutting without picture (for initial assembly in the timeline) and it was because my films had to real budget for ADR whereas he did. So we approach the film with the challenges and freedom we have access to. We had a discussion about his dislike for clicking anywhere on a clip and being there, rather than "going" there where you saw every frame, albeit quite quickly. He said you might notice something better for the cut you're trying to do, or for another part of the scene to use later. And I agree that there is a fundamental difference between search and discovery. I told him I could have the software not allow that and they he would have to scroll, or JKL quickly to any frame. He thought about it for about a minute and he said - "nah - don't do that." In the end, a lot of these things come down to self discipline. Spielberg did edit Tintin digitally (had to)... and he quite liked the experience.


Michael


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 5:30:20 pm

[Michael Phillips] "We had a discussion about his dislike for clicking anywhere on a clip and being there, rather than "going" there where you saw every frame, albeit quite quickly. He said you might notice something better for the cut you're trying to do, or for another part of the scene to use later"

Walter is always good for an analysis of the art and craft of editing. This brings up an interesting point about the fundamental difference between scrubbing in other NLEs and skimming in FCP X. One of its great features, because it gives you that discovery feeling without the wrist/finger fatigue of extensive scrubbing. Ironically, it feels like Media Composer's scrubbing is purposefully throttled back, almost as if you are getting resistance from the media. It seems intentional in the design from what I can tell. In any case, different methods that all affect how we tackle the footage.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 6:21:55 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Ironically, it feels like Media Composer's scrubbing is purposefully throttled back, almost as if you are getting resistance from the media. It seems intentional in the design from what I can tell."

Love that feature specially the incessant messages with black screens.

Maybe its to keep us from tasking the hardware :P


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 1, 2015 at 9:04:53 pm

beyond cliché to say this but - I'm usually curious what adobe roll out at max? They do work very hard to defend the rental deathstar. Adobe max sessions have been getting towards near must watch the last year or two. Not all of it, but some is utter gold.

this one from joshua smith last year has to be one of the more absorbing, madly personal presentations I've seen in a long time. plus his stuff kicks ass.

http://2014.max.adobe.com/sessions/max-online/?PID=2159997#/video/611

Also the mobile app notions they preview there have been getting increasingly interesting? I'm locked into lightroom at this stage and curating and picking on the ipad version is nice.

OT: I have a personal fantasy that they'll release an iOS AE companion this year that allows for paint and live motion sketch record to be dubbed together with a stylus on an ipad. Working with CC synced brand assets, If you could feed certain paint and animation stuff done on the ipad through to desktop AE that would be rather sweet. Paint and motion sketch can be underused on the desktop.

Went off topic on this, but they're generally very open at adobemax on the notion of what they're about editorially. Shantanyu Narayen aside.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Mark Suszko
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 1, 2015 at 9:18:06 pm

Nobody votes for SIGGRAPH? My Utah Teapot has a sad now.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 1, 2015 at 9:38:04 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Apr 1, 2015 at 9:46:34 pm

hey - i'd vote for LEAF as was but it's gone the way of the do-do. Coming back from leaf we convinced our employers at the time to drop change for an intergraph with a pvr drive and a speed razor edit box out of that show. And we got to see the godzilla fx panel hungover. salad days.

edit: just checked - lord it's not even online properly anymore - London Effects and Animation Festival. was sort of a Siggraph/NAB.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Scott Witthaus
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 1, 2015 at 11:19:21 pm
Last Edited By Scott Witthaus on Apr 2, 2015 at 9:35:55 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] " i'd vote for LEAF as was but it's gone the way of the do-do."

Glad you clarified. I thought you meant the Lake Eden Arts Festival in Black Mountain, NC near Asheville. Great music festival but I don't remember anything about video...of what I remember...

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Eric Santiago
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 12:12:34 pm
Last Edited By Eric Santiago on Apr 2, 2015 at 4:05:08 pm

Siggraph...

I used to go religiously in my CG days.

I might have to drop in on one if it comes back to New Orleans :)

That was my fave over Orlando, LA, Boston and Vancouver.


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Craig Seeman
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 1, 2015 at 11:44:07 pm

It's not until November but CCW is now owned by NAB and I suspect they will be making changes to make it more mini NABish.



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Scott Witthaus
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 9:40:39 am

I thoroughly enjoyed the Southeast Creative Summit in Atlanta in 2013, but it did not survive into 2014. I felt it had real potential to be something very cool. A shame.

sw

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Michael Phillips
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 12:54:48 pm

I've had Cinegear on my list to attend, but have yet to go. Only for the reason that post is subject to what is happening in camera and audio technology and with some parts of post moving closer to production anyway, it's an interesting one. At least in the world I play in.


Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 12:57:42 pm

Also. HPA is a pretty good one as well. It has it hit and miss years, but overall the quality of the panels, and technology room is very high. One of the rules of the tech demo room is that it can't be anything that is already shipping. It has to have some new component to it. And seeing as it is in Feb, you sort of get a NAB preview in a much smaller environment where you have time to talk to vendors, not to mention the networking aspect of the attendees. I have done several of them, and they have been worth it. And who in Boston at the beginning of February does not want to spend a week in Palm Springs?


Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 1:01:19 pm

And one more thought on that. I always get them after I hit "send". Here are Adam Wilt's detailed notes for the 5 days of this year's HPA Retreat. It will give you a very good sense of what goes on there:

http://www.provideocoalition.com/hpa-tech-retreat-2015-day-1


Michael


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Mark Raudonis
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 3:37:40 pm

Another vote for HPA.

All the news from NAB with out all the noise!



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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 5:30:59 pm

Me, too, although I've only been once so far. It was a good experience though.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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TImothy Auld
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 10:26:18 pm

And one more. But you've got to wait til next year.

Tim


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Scott Witthaus
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 3:49:15 pm

[Michael Phillips] "And who in Boston at the beginning of February does not want to spend a week in Palm Springs? "

Good point.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 5:31:57 pm

Any innovative conferences in the DC or NYC area related to media, film, etc?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Phillips
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 6:20:44 pm

I've seen interesting ones in NY but center more around advertising, interactive, and video as a part of that landscape. Cine Gear does have a NY version and is in September this year:
http://www.cinegearexpo.com/287/

DC has Government Expo, etc.


Michael


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Craig Seeman
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 7:13:11 pm

CCW in NYC in November now run by NAB directly. I'm not sure how "innovative" it will be but I was part of a focus group and gave them a earful of recommended changes.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 6:30:44 pm

My bet that the next cool conference will be "The Creative COW FCPX or Not: The Debate Symposium and Convention Conference" in Secaucus, New Jersey, Spring 2016.

CCFNDSCC or "See see funds see see" for short

FCPX is NOT the debate topic, rather FCPX (or not) is a radial point from which everything else is originated, including the Rise in Use of Multicam as it Relates to the Destruction of Modern Cinema, post Kurosawa. This, of course, will be one of many topics covered in the 3 day retreat in beautiful Secaucus, NJ.

It'll be BYOB, of course.

I imagine it going something like this:







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Bill Davis
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 8:19:32 pm

I object!

That would put said CCFNDSCC conference TOTALLY closer to Herb than to me.

FOUL!!!!!!!!


; )


by the way, Jeremy, it appears to my practiced eye that the initialism needs a few more C's. Somebody work on that, please.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 9:07:32 pm

I really, really liked AE World this year. PPro World was also worthwhile. May not be your cup 'o tea on this forum, however. ;-)

Kevin Monahan
Support Product Manager—DVA
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Steve Connor
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 9:09:09 pm

[Kevin Monahan] "May not be your cup 'o tea on this forum, however. ;-)
"


There are some of us here that use BOTH PPro and FCPX :)


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Kevin Monahan
Re: OT: So what will be the next cool conference?
on Apr 2, 2015 at 9:15:29 pm

[Steve Connor] "There are some of us here that use BOTH PPro and FCPX :)"

That's pretty smart!

Kevin

Kevin Monahan
Support Product Manager—DVA
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe
Follow Me on Twitter!


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