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COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

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Rich Rubasch
Good for business?
on Jun 30, 2011 at 9:21:59 pm

While I don't think FCP X is going to be a part of our production company in the near term, I wonder if this shift isn't good for the professional / post house / full service production company in the near term.

We all know many agencies have on staff editors and most of them run FCP. Just enough skill to be dangerous and there are a few good ones out there. But once FCP X hits I think there will certainly be a need for a fully fleshed out editing system with color correction, advanced editing tools, video IO hardware and a skilled operator. This might actually be a shift back to separating the men from the boys, so to speak.

The college students can cut on their laptops and upload to Facebook all day, but if you need a professional tool with professional infrastructure you need to find a post house with an AVID or the Premier suite, or dare I say, Media 100.

Apple will sell zillions of copies of FCP X at it's pricepoint to those who are intrigued by the slick modern interface, will muddle thru the new workflow and use it well.

But if you want a truly professional editing system you have to reach a bit higher, a place where the kids might not dare to go, but us pros will jump at a great editing system will the bells and whistles we need.

Anyone pondering this?

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Armando Ciurana
Re: Good for business?
on Jun 30, 2011 at 9:30:22 pm

I totally agree with you, I think this is going to be the event that separates really professionals from amateurs, the supossed freedom that FCP X gives the editor, in fact is a heavy chain in their ancles. everything is going to be "alike" if you want to have a "unique" look and style you will have to go to a professional with professional tools.

Best!

President
Ciurana Dussauge Films Mexico


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John Davidson
Resistance is futile
on Jun 30, 2011 at 9:51:22 pm

Since we're speculating...
Short term there's going to be a hit for Apple. I think there are lots of places that are going to jump back to Avid, and some to Premiere. As the feature set matures, NEW editors will use FCPX. They will learn it, and think the track based system with no real metadata we use is archaic and unintuitive. Apple will eventually release a v2 that includes edit to tape, OMF export, and many things we need. People will be amazed. V3 will include proper OMF volume levels, better color correction, and a non-magnetic mode, and everyone will be amazed yet again.
Avid will enjoy a small surge for now, but it will be short lived. The new editors will demand FCPX because they can't even begin to understand how to edit destructively. The older editors will remind them constantly how non-pro the youngsters are, and bemoan the downfall of their industry.
in 5 years FCPX will be the dominant editing system again. In fact, that may happen in 1 year, except for very very rigid editing ecosystems like film, with it's older editors being the last of the breed that edit the old way.

Eventually the tape issue will be moot, because in 2013 the FCC will approve the merger of ATT, Comcast, Time Warner, and Verizon Fios, resulting in a single company with every single former congressional representative receiving under the table kickbacks, being place in VP positions, or on it's board. This company will then charge $10,000 per month for internet access of 2 Mb/s download and .39 Mb/s upload. At that point Aindreas Gallagher will have made his 10 billionth post bemoaning FCPX, which effectively brings the entire internet to a halt. This will lead to a revolution within the united states, where new laws will be placed into effect stating that internet is now a utility and not a luxury service, and the hybrid ISP will be broken into tiny regional services. Internet speeds will flourish to gigabit speeds for $40 per month. All former congressmen and senators who sold out to the ISP's will be convicted of treason and sent to live in Canada, with only Rogers internets pathetic service. At this point tape will be pointless, as an entire high res movie will transfer in 90 seconds, using Super ProRes Pro.

Of course, I could be wrong. This is just a guess...

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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james carey
Re: Resistance is futile
on Jun 30, 2011 at 10:36:02 pm

[John Davidson] "V3 will include proper OMF volume levels, better color correction, and a non-magnetic mode"

Good post, but had to laugh, because the way you describe each succeeding version I can only see that by v4 or v5 they will be back to FCP7 - only with benefits of 64bit, true multi-core, and background rendering. which is exactly what we wanted in the firs place.

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Resistance is futile
on Jun 30, 2011 at 10:46:57 pm

tee hee.

well yes, and actually my name is Aindreas Ó Gallchoir - its my dads name - Gallagher is the translation - I had to anglicise my second name pretty quickly there because google searches on my name, bar my website, were only picking up posts of me ripping off my own head and screaming at it on this forum....

ah good times.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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MIke Guidotti
Re: Resistance is futile
on Jun 30, 2011 at 10:59:27 pm

Are you implying AVID is destructive editing?


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Good for business?
on Jun 30, 2011 at 10:21:21 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "While I don't think FCP X is going to be a part of our production company in the near term, I wonder if this shift isn't good for the professional / post house / full service production company in the near term.

We all know many agencies have on staff editors and most of them run FCP. Just enough skill to be dangerous and there are a few good ones out there. But once FCP X hits I think there will certainly be a need for a fully fleshed out editing system with color correction, advanced editing tools, video IO hardware and a skilled operator. This might actually be a shift back to separating the men from the boys, so to speak.

The college students can cut on their laptops and upload to Facebook all day, but if you need a professional tool with professional infrastructure you need to find a post house with an AVID or the Premier suite, or dare I say, Media 100.

Apple will sell zillions of copies of FCP X at it's pricepoint to those who are intrigued by the slick modern interface, will muddle thru the new workflow and use it well.

But if you want a truly professional editing system you have to reach a bit higher, a place where the kids might not dare to go, but us pros will jump at a great editing system will the bells and whistles we need."


Yes and no.
At first I had been thinking supply and demand means lower rates. The trend of the past thirty years would tend to support that theory.
But then I started coming around to where your at, and there is a lot of truth to it.
However not everything is a feature film, or for broadcast. There are plenty of people that make a living, or at least supplement their broadcast and film work with mundane projects like training films and such. Quite a bit of that customer base is very bottom line oriented, and not as concerned with being broadcast quality. I think an over saturated market will hurt rates in this area of production, which is quite large.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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Chris Kenny
Re: Good for business?
on Jun 30, 2011 at 10:40:44 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "Anyone pondering this?"

Yeah, I really wouldn't bet on this. People are overly impressed with expensive gear and complicated software in this business. The truth is, the tools available these days -- yes, even FCP X -- are pretty absurdly powerful. You could go out today and shoot a feature film on Red/Alexa, bring it into FCP X as 2K ProRes 4444, edit and grade it entirely in FCP X, strike a DCP off an image sequence exported from FCP X (with free open source tools, if you're technically inclined and don't need copy protection), show it theatrically, and assuming you were competent, nobody would find any particular technical fault with it.

Oh, and you could do this on a MacBook Pro. (Might want to borrow a system with a Rocket for a day or to if doing Red transcoding.)

We're not planning, mind you, to sell off the components of our Resolve suite any time soon, give up advocacy of raw R3D grading, or stop building custom in-house workflows for tricky projects. There are still advantages to higher end tools and more complicated approaches. But the truth is that the price point beyond which more expensive tools provide seriously diminishing returns is dropping substantially every year, and FCP X, with its ColorSync support, above-average software scopes, pretty-good-for-an-NLE grading tools, and GPU-accelerated 32-bit float rendering has, for all that people are insisting it's intended to edit footage of your kid's soccer game, just dropped it another notch or two, for anyone inclined to use it that way.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Good for business?
on Jul 1, 2011 at 1:29:42 am

Business?
Teaching FCX soon will be a good one.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Scott Sheriff
Re: Good for business?
on Jul 1, 2011 at 2:03:03 am

[Rafael Amador] "Teaching FCX soon will be a good one"

With a huge commitment like a $300 app and an iMac, I could really see a lot of X-heads busting up at least $20 or so to back up that hefty investment with some ed-u-muh-kay-shun.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com

I have a system, it has stuff in it, and stuff hooked to it. I have a camera, it can record stuff. I read the manuals, and know how to use this stuff and lots of other stuff too.
You should be suitably impressed...

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair


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