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Aindreas Gallagher
the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 12:48:29 am

http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/5/7987575/the-vergecast-139-february-5-2015

the intelligent slider looks brilliant, and it's something adobe would do in a cold day in hell - from around the fifty odd minute mark

dieter bohn - "using the slider - when you look at it - you can see its doing all the crap you always do manually." relative to photography you'd feel he's right to the extent that apple feel they can operate primary pass photographic manipulation on your behalf - ditto horizon lines and maybe rule of thirds.

dieter bohn: "it's got this weird... the learning curve is not very steep - I think using the new photos app will make you better at editing photos."

you'd think he's right there, apple are deliberately dissembling the mechanics and making them readily understandable. It's not that they're completely trying to do it for you - but they're deliberately trying to make you grok it and it's very grokable.
hundreds of millions now in some kind of a darkroom with zany sophisticated filters every day on a mobile telephone. it's mad right? I used to think about having a darkroom (!)

Nilay Patel: "ehmm. I think apple are thinking, if you want a pro solution go to lightroom. I think the last piece of it is - they're going to kill final cut. they're going to say go to premiere."

Nilay Patel isn't the stupidest person in the room. Fine I'm saying it but still. I think apple are trying to square an emotional circle with final cut and I don't think their heart is in it. the core of their issue relates to user usage across mobile and desktop when they're not thinking about cars.

the likelihood that they are willing to see their pursuit of video capture and sharing follow a bifurcated development resource path where one part competes with adobe seems unlikely. Apple video, following Apple photos, is, you'd think, sooner or later, going to rear its monolithic head.

If you start to think about what Apple video could be, user generated and commercial in a world beyond itunes with apple music - well it's interesting.
but the notion that fcpx would continue as a development fork ala aperture is as likely as aperture having continued in the face of apple photos. which it really did not.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Noah Kadner
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 1:19:11 am

Nope...

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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David Mathis
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 1:34:03 am

My understanding is that Photos is to replace iPhoto not Aperture. I doubt seriously that Apple would bloody well elimnate FCP X anytime soon. As for going rental only, no way. Not even if hell has an ice age. just saying . . .


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tony west
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 1:49:23 am
Last Edited By tony west on Feb 16, 2015 at 1:58:59 am

I don't know. I'm still not convinced Apple was not some how in cahoots with Affinity on their new photo App that just seemed to pop up right after the Aperture news.

The timing was a little too pat for me.

The words on their page say "Professional image editing software for Mac"

Apple gets paid while people grab it off their App store and they don't even have to develop it.

Seems like a great deal for them.

That's a cool App that could make many forget all about Aperture.

I'm not sweating it. The way I see it, even if X went away something would pop up on that App store that looked just like it.

I used iWeb for my site for years. it went away and Everweb popped up looking just like it. I use that now.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 7:19:40 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Feb 16, 2015 at 7:47:27 pm

Tony, Aperture is way more than a Photoshop stand in. It has the best DAM (Digital Asset Manager) of any of the photo centric programs. Plus the well thought out interface that is an Apple hallmark. Not separate modules you have to jump between to do necessary adjustment and management, etc. I do as much photography as video, and I am loathe to think of moving to LightRoom, which has literally half the capability of Aperture when it comes to photo management and organization. It is not just a bunch of folders primarily organized in the Finder that show up that way in LR. Aperture can also use that external management model, but it has a Library system that is far more powerful than LR. I have terabytes of photos in them, and also in separate backup folders that I could move to a non Library system if necessary. But I really don't want to.

Will keep running Aperture as long as possible, for many years with my current Mac Pro 2012 (10.6.8 to Yosemite boots) and nMP 2013. With LR you have to export JPGS (poor subsequent editing and heavier compression) or TIFFs (huge also with poor editing) just to get them into LR from Aperture with any RAW Adjustments. Photos is supposed to import directly with adjustments intact. We will see on that. Capture One is looking like a better alternative to LR for Pro Aperture users, as they are implementing a direct import of RAW Aperture Libraries that maintain as much of the characteristics of adjustment and metadata as possible. Many call C1 the best RAW converter in the business, though I haven't found anything to equal Nikon Capture NX2 for my Nikon cameras. Even after import to C1 the Aperture Library is still usable. And as the Libraries are directly importable to Photos, I may do some editing and organization there if I like it. Especially as improvements are added in subsequent releases.

As far as FCPX going away, not a chance. It is selling extremely well and selling Macs. More people moving to it every day and avoiding the Adobe rental trap. A no brainer. It is working very well for my needs, better than Premiere. At least they pay more attention to Macs than PCs.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.4, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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tony west
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 8:01:41 am

Excellent points jim, but I thought the new
Photos app was going to have organization
Plus editing capabilities with the added kicker
Of an option for 3rd parties to offer plugins.

To me one of the things I like about X is the
3rd party deal making it even stronger.

Could you end up with a much stronger app
Than you have now if that happens and what
Are your thoughts on the affinity app?


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Erik Lindahl
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 12:23:20 am

The only caveat is that Affinity Photo is a photo-editor and has zero of the digital assets management features Aperture held. Apple killing Aperture is simply sad as it's one of the best DAM's available. It's just gotten old, like many of Apples pro-tools before they've eventually killed them off.


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Brett Sherman
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 2:16:55 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I think the last piece of it is - they're going to kill final cut. they're going to say go to premiere.""

By the same token, you could say Apple is going to kill Logic Pro X, roll it into Garageband, call it Apple Music and tell people to use ProTools. Anyone that thinks that's going to happen is living in an alternative universe. This is all baseless speculation. Nothing to see here.


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Oliver Peters
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 1:01:32 pm

Actually... Since we're playing the baseless speculation game... Who's to say that Apple doesn't keep FCP X as the main video tool and dump iMovie?

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 5:51:18 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Who's to say that Apple doesn't keep FCP X as the main video tool and dump iMovie?"

iMovie *is* FCP X. And to Aindreas' comment, as Noah said... Nope.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 8:54:57 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Who's to say that Apple doesn't keep FCP X as the main video tool and dump iMovie?"

yes. Its just when you look at the new photos its mad - it's the same software view as on iOS - the experience is really similar and they're both showing shared views of cloud based material. It's not impossible to think that apple would want to tie video into the same framework? photos isn't at all like iphoto - its a way of seeing your stuff with the same attached editing tools that sync across both platforms. it doesn't feel like a big mad clunky discrete desktop app like iphoto did.

benedict evans, who's a super duper smart dude, wrote this thing in his latest newsletter: Apple is clearly going to do something in music (replacing iTunes just as it has replaced iPhoto with a great new cloud photo service)

he thinks itunes is going to go. And If itunes is finally going to be broken up as a monolithic heavy app as iphoto was - then you get a really light, iOS shared cloud based music app on OSX that reveals the same media as on your iphone. and if that happens you'd think they might want to do something with all the video being generated on iOS? to give it a software view on OSX? then it could be imovie that gets radically simplified into a clean media catalog with some attached editing functions tied into your cloud/local based video archive?

Spitballing like - just thought tacking the demise of imminent demise of FCPX onto it would be worth it for cat pigeon reasons...

but if music is going into the new iOS/OSX light and fast shared app architecture like photos - if music gets broken out into a clean easy fast app (and please God it does) - then they've got to parcel out the other bits of the itunes chicken carcass some way - and that's mostly video stuff - user generated and commercial?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 9:08:54 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "hen it could be imovie that gets radically simplified into a clean media catalog with some attached editing functions tied into your cloud/local based video archive?

Spitballing like - just thought tacking the demise of imminent demise of FCPX onto it would be worth it for cat pigeon reasons..."


You're looking at it the wrong way. iMove and FCP X are already the same app. IF they redo iMovie iOS so that content created in it can be opened in iMovie, which can then be opened in FCP X... It already works for Garage Band. iOS GB to Mac OS GB to Logic X compatibility...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:15:50 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:25:32 pm

Maybe - and photos are different to moving video - but the shift is to the content as opposed to a large multi-function app that sits over it asking you to import or select things.
iphoto was highly complex in comparsion to photos. Photo's function is to expose on OSX shared content you know is already there.

ipad/iphone iphoto on iOS failed because it was an attempt to bring a full bore image editing app in. you'd think that was randy ubillos's last hurrah.
Apple decided to strip the app away to sit in preference to media discovery with a bit of editing on the side.

apple will have have their own usage metrics to answer it, but the question is how people want to view their material - in the context of a complex full menu system heavy software app like old iphoto and imovie - or like apple photos, and the soon to be apple music.

basically - as consumers, their primary paradigm - are people supposed to boot up a video editing system and bring in their video, or do they call up their cloud based material in an extremely clean app that exposes it, and then decide to do a certain amount of an editing function. If it's the latter - imovie as we know it is as done as likely is itunes.

photos is that app, and you'd think music is about to be as well. it's a question whether apple keep with an extremely discreet heavy tasked based app like imovie for video, particularly if they really are about to explode the itunes bucket of everything paradigm.

then user generated and commercial video needs its own light, clean, software based expression on iOS and OSX. like say 'Movies' or something. to go with 'Photos' and 'Music'.

It's hard to see them tying that form of clean media sync view into something as complex as iMovie.

*edit* also it's interesting that they've largely moved the old (horrible) OSX itunes to iOS app specific file transfer function out into the finder in yosemite - I'd really be shocked if that wasn't preparation for largely breaking up itunes into smaller nimbler parts.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:39:54 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "then user generated and commercial video needs its own light, clean, software based expression on iOS and OSX. like say 'Movies' or something. to go with 'Photos' and 'Music'."

You're completely ignoring Garage Band/Logic X. They are content creation apps. iMovie and FCP X are also content creation apps. iTunes is not, and Photos isn't out yet, so who knows what it will be. I think it could be as you describe *and* a content creation app, but who knows.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 11:41:03 pm

iphoto on iOS was quite the content creation app tho charlie. briefly. with a stage introduction and everything. And they killed that entire complex app front end - photos is now a shared media view with synced discreet editing tools. That thing is never turning into aperture inside that adjustment drawer, given it has to sync operations with an iphone screen.

that said I know - honestly I think FCPX is going absolutely nowhere - but if Apple are about to explode the itunes monolith it'd be interesting to consider what exactly comprises private user generated and commercial video content inside the iOS-OSX apple ecosystem.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Richard Herd
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:20:00 pm

[Charlie Austin] "iMove and FCP X are already the same app."

One reason you need to evolve your language here has to do with the Creative Cow being a place where people seek advice. Based on what you're saying, someone might assume incorrectly they do not need X to do certain things. Things that pros need to do. They are not the same app. I understand you're hinting at development cycles and testing code and so on. That's what I mean evolve the language. Something like iMovie is a testing ground for features in X (or something akin to that).


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:31:56 pm

hey - if charlie wants to put it that way, who are you to stop him.

[Charlie Austin] "iMove and FCP X are already the same app."

what's the problem? don't be so persnickety. Richard. That sentence reads absolutely fine. just leave that alone.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:35:42 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "what's the problem? don't be so persnickety. Richard. That sentence reads absolutely fine. just leave that alone."

lol... I see what you did there... But, well, they are. They have a different feature set enabled, and a different UI, and they probably have a different dev cycle. But the building blocks are the same. But X isn't iMovie Pro, iMovie is FCP X Lite. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Richard Herd
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 6:08:08 pm

[Charlie Austin] "iMovie is FCP X Lite. ;"

Richie likes it. He really does!


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Richard Herd
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 6:07:29 pm

Except that it's false ;)


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Bill Davis
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 7:34:44 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "hey - if charlie wants to put it that way, who are you to stop him.

[Charlie Austin] "iMove and FCP X are already the same app."

what's the problem? don't be so persnickety. Richard. That sentence reads absolutely fine. just leave that alone."


Except that people don't understand that there's a deeper level of abstraction going on than is immediately obvious.

I suspect that one reason iMove and FCP X share so much similarity is that each is a UI calling on the power of the underlying Core engines in OS X. Core Graphics, Core Video, Core Audio - iMovie and FCP X both are built on top of this unified foundation - but they leverage it very differently. While the expression of a Core Graphics call - for example - generating a screen reflection - shows up in the iTunes Cover Flow interface or as part of a transition in either iMovie or X is going to be apparently unifying, but don't signal that the code is the same in each APP - just that each app utilizes the same call to the underlying manipulation.

Same thing with Garage Band vs Logic.

Thats one reason I think it's hard to always know where one app starts and the other leaves off.

Because if the code team does a cool transition using reflection in iMovie - why WOULDN"T you just take the same code and put it into X? The work's already done. The OS calls and even the customization code runs fine in both environments - so If the transition is useful to both customer bases, why not give it to them. Not to is to arbitrarily screw over one group of customers purely in the name of marketing differential to protect customer bases, but since iMovie is free, that's off the table.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Richard Herd
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:16:58 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "iOS shared cloud based music app on OSX that reveals the same media as on your iphone. "

It already does this for stuff purchased through the store, but it can be done also using home share and apple tv.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 12:05:04 am

[Richard Herd] "It already does this for stuff purchased through the store, but it can be done also using home share and apple tv."

I know - but semantically - music inside itunes is a galaxy away from the user clarity of photos inside osx/ios photos.

you have the exact same loupe function you have on iOS, the same views, the same everything and bugger all else until you go to edit - because its a media exposure layer. And it's really clean and fast. Given that the primary use case is your ownership of material across multiple devices.

itunes on the other hand is a Smörgåsbord of geologically compressed software shit.

photos versus itunes is at red shift level distance.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter Soyka
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 12:10:11 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I know - but semantically - music inside itunes is a galaxy away from the user clarity of photos inside osx/ios photos.... itunes on the other hand is a Smörgåsbord of geologically compressed software shit."

iTunes is a spreadsheet that plays music.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 12:57:45 am

[Walter Soyka] "iTunes is a spreadsheet that plays music."

apple music = apple photos. you'd hope so. hard to think zane lowe was convinced to move an ocean for an itunes featured style crapfest.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter Soyka
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 11:53:36 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "yes. Its just when you look at the new photos its mad - it's the same software view as on iOS - the experience is really similar and they're both showing shared views of cloud based material. It's not impossible to think that apple would want to tie video into the same framework?"

There's a hugely important point here. I know this sounds like crazy talk, but the cloud and the Internet of Things will be enormously disruptive to computer hardware and to software design as we know it today.

Of course, Apple knows this. That's why they're investing in data centers and wearables and automotive.

I wouldn't agree that FCP X is on the chopping block at all, but the question of what the long-term plan for the ProApps would be in light of these macro technology trends is valid.

Adobe has been derided a bit here for their vision of the future -- but what if there's something to it?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 12:27:42 am

I'd say this much - all the iOS photos are feeding into lightroom automatically after I bent the knee, and if I was more a of a designer the iphone based brush designer in action would blow my mind. you'd think it's significant to the extent that software vendors can now capture behaviour, but also that then the software, at either end, has to match the behaviour?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter Soyka
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 12:47:05 am

Sidebar: I thought this thread would go a whole bunch of different directions than the path it's taken since it touches on so many issues -- democratization of technology, simplification of skill, Apple innovation.


[Aindreas Gallagher] "you'd think it's significant to the extent that software vendors can now capture behaviour, but also that then the software, at either end, has to match the behaviour?"

No need, because eventually the captured behavior replaces the prior behavior, then through a self-reinforcing cycle becomes the new normal.

Google showed fully automatic image enhancement at their I/O conference in 2013. It does a lot of what a photographer might. Technical things like balancing the image and reducing noise, but also artistic-intent things like identifying and emphasizing the subject. The behavior was captured, and the how and the why fade away until only the what remains.

Let's take photography and throw a bunch of buzzwords at it. What do you get when you combine Internet-connected mobile cameras, social networks, and cloud computing?

You get self-editing photos.

As huge numbers of users provide feedback as to what makes a "good" image, the software is able to learn the group's preference, and through the use of stupefying amounts of on-demand compute horsepower, apply all that gibberish that gets published every year at SIGGRAPH and make your photos look better.

Not only is a desktop computer not required -- a desktop computer alone CANNOT DO THIS because it is unable to leverage the network effect enabled by the social/mobile/connected elements above.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Steve Connor
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 1:08:42 pm

Well if a random tech journalist says it then it must be a possibility


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Scott Witthaus
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 3:42:07 pm

I think Adobe will kill Premiere and sell the rest to Avid.

Since it's on the web, it must be true....

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Phil Hoppes
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 5:49:33 pm

I heard they were going to fire Tim Cook and steal Balmer from the Clippers. They are building a special office in SpaceShip Apple with a retractable window just so Steve can kick chairs into the central park area.


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Shane Ross
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 6:21:48 pm

FCX is going nowhere. It's has one of the largest, if not THE largest, user base for video editing. And video is the current craze that is EVERYWHERE. It's powerful and very inexpensive, opening it to a wide variety of users...from beginners to pros.

There's no way Apple will kill it.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Charlie Austin
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 6:55:58 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Feb 16, 2015 at 6:57:57 pm

[Shane Ross] "There's no way Apple will kill it.
"


Exactly. Look at what they've got in the content creation space. Logic X and Garage Band. Same app, different skin. Taking that into account, I'd bet more people are using "Logic" than any DAW on the planet. Same deal with Final Cut Pro and iMovie. Same app, different skin. I doubt any other NLE is even is the same ballpark as far as user base. And now, Photos. Which, it seems, can probably cater to both non-pro and pro in the same app. And remember, everyone who has access to Photos is using a beta. The *first* beta. The rest of us are only speculating based on seeing pictures/demos and using the iOS version. I'll go out on a limb and say that it will have a lot more going on after it's been out for a while.

As to FCP, if every "Pro" on the planet switched to another NLE today, "FCP X" would likely still have more users than any of them. Maybe more then all of them.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 8:19:02 pm

[David Mathis] "My understanding is that Photos is to replace iPhoto not Aperture. "

In terms of products, Photos replaces both iPhoto and Aperture. In terms of features, only time will tell if Photos gets to feature parity with Aperture.


On to the bigger assumption, I really doubt Apple is going to ax X, especially considering the big reboot FCP just went through. To be honest, I feel like a video editing app has a broader appeal than a photo finishing app. Besides organization, sharing and basic touchups/Instagram-style filters, what do most users want? On the flip side, with video people make everything from their own skate/ski videos to Star Wars fan films.


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Gary Huff
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 8:21:22 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "only time will tell if Photos gets to feature parity with Aperture."

Yes. Photos may, upon release, be a pale shadow of Aperture, but like with FCPX, who knows where it will be in 2017?


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Erik Lindahl
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 12:26:34 am

Well said!


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Marcus Moore
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 1:44:00 am

I'm very much looking forward to seeing if Apple has any usage numbers to announce at NAB. I'm wagering they'll be much higher than presumed.


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Mitch Ives
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 2:01:41 pm

[Charlie Austin] "And remember, everyone who has access to Photos is using a beta. The *first* beta. The rest of us are only speculating based on seeing pictures/demos and using the iOS version. I'll go out on a limb and say that it will have a lot more going on after it's been out for a while. "

Exactly... the thing isn't even out yet and already it's being hammered. I'm taking a wait and see attitude. What if it's like FCP X... pretty good but missing some stuff initially, but gets filled in later?

I do understand the whole DAM thing, but given that FCP X is at its core a database, why wouldn't Photos have something similar?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Marcus Moore
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 3:04:14 pm

I don't want to be dismissive of Aperture users who waited all this time for Aperture X and now are finding themselves with "iPhoto Pro".

Of course, these were the knee-jerk reactions to FCP X when it was first released (and still exist in some circles). But Final Cut and iMove remained 2 separate and distinct apps- regardless of any surface UI or functional similarities. So they could each develop on separate paths to cater to different user bases.

For now, Apple is presenting a single application that is supposed to meet the needs of two distinct markets. I always figured this would be a very hard concept to square. And for now at least it seems Photos is certainly more aimed at the consumer and hobbyist vs the working professional. Some of this stuff could certainly be reintegrated in future updates, but I think the concept of organization (where it seems Photos is most lacking vs Aperture) might be difficult to implement as a Extension or plug-in.

Or perhaps Apple does have an pro-oriented Aperture successor in the works, and it's simply not ready yet. That's impossible to say.

On the other hand, I remember a lot of flack about the lack of traditional "Bins" when FCPX was first released, before people realized just how powerful and flexible the metadata tagging and search tools could be. If these same concepts existed in Photos, wouldn't it also be an equally, if not more powerful organizational tool than Aperture's legacy sorting concepts? But it's just that it's so open and different that people don't see how powerful it is?

This is a straight up question, because I have not clue about what Photos metadata tools are like.


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Richard Herd
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 8:15:16 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Final Cut Pro and iMovie. Same app, different skin."


After I read that sentence, I opened up iMovie 10.0.2 and it could not import the MXF I just received nor the AVCHD camera archive.

What do you mean by "same app."


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Charlie Austin
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 8:40:37 pm

[Richard Herd] "What do you mean by "same app.""

It is the exact same code base. iMovie has, obviously, a different UI bolted on, and a different feature set enabled/disabled as you discovered. They are the same app though.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Richard Herd
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:10:58 pm

[Charlie Austin] "It is the exact same code base. "

Isn't that a bit of wonky taxonomy though? I mean, we are all made up of the same amino acids. The structure of a thing (including code) is more important than it's parts arranged in mere proximate order. Easier said: the things you can do in one app and the things you can do in another app are different make them not-the-same.


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Marcus Moore
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:26:55 pm

What Charlie means is that there's actually a full version of FCPX inside iMovie. Alex4D discovered this and rooted out many of FCPX 10.1's features before the software was released, because the version of FCPX in iMovie was a later build than the one that was currently shipping at the time (10.0.9).

Apple has since gotten wise, cause the gravy train of spoilers seems to have stopped.


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Charlie Austin
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 10:28:14 pm

[Richard Herd] "Easier said: the things you can do in one app and the things you can do in another app are different make them not-the-same."

Well, sure. All I'm saying is that, if you poke around inside the FCP X and iMovie app packages, you'll see that, inside, they are made of the same bits. Things that are enabled in iMovie aren't enabled in X and vice versa...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 24, 2015 at 3:36:06 am

But they have done just that to so many applications with huge and happy user bases, so many times. The behavior is not at all out character.

Tim


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Scott Witthaus
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 11:38:44 pm

[Phil Hoppes] "They are building a special office in SpaceShip Apple with a retractable window just so Steve can kick chairs into the central park area."

And they are going to build electric cars! Oh, wait....

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Erik Lindahl
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 12:25:19 am

Adobe needs one red haired step child in their line-up now that Bridge is killed off. Premiere will be there to be beaten and laughed at… ;)


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Gary Huff
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 3:06:18 am

[Erik Lindahl] "Premiere will be there to be beaten and laughed at… ;)"

That would work a lot better as a joke if Premiere wasn't actually considered to be quite good now.


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Darren Roark
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 3:32:21 am

Aperture doesn't sell Macs anymore because you need a faster one to run it well. FCP X caused me to go all in on a very expensive high end new(ish) Mac Pro.

Considering they just bought a $1,000 per seat MXF plugin and rolled it into FCP X, I'd say everyone is safe for a while.


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Charlie Austin
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 3:46:10 am

The idea that Apple is gonna kill FCP X anytime soon is ludicrous. It's good to have Aindreas back though. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Scott Witthaus
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 12:10:49 am

[Charlie Austin] "It's good to have Aindreas back though. :-)"

Indeed. Even though this is a helluva reach!

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Dean Neal
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 22, 2015 at 5:28:21 am

I think Aindreas' desire to deride FCPX and its relevance or viability has become almost...sexual!

It is fun to read and have a giggle at - however...

:)

The core question is - *why* have you invested so much time in a 'FCPX or not' Forum - otherwise?

Morbid curiosity? Officially designated representer of the Worldwide Track-based Editors guild?

;-)

Dean Neal...


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Scott Witthaus
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 23, 2015 at 11:23:09 pm

[Dean Neal] "I think Aindreas' desire to deride FCPX and its relevance or viability has become almost...sexual!
"


hmmm...not sure I would use that description, but entertaining nonetheless! ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Andrew Kimery
Re: the verge explains apple photos, nilay whispers FCPX is the other shoe about to drop and die.
on Feb 23, 2015 at 11:28:15 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "hmmm...not sure I would use that description, but entertaining nonetheless! ;-)"

titillating?


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Noah Kadner
Re: yet another data point which suggests Verge is misinformed on this report
on Feb 24, 2015 at 3:57:57 am

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/02/23/apple-acquires-camel-audio/

Sure doesn't seem like the move of a company looking to do away with Pro Apps...

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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