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Is it safe to come back

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

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Darren Kelly
Is it safe to come back
on Feb 5, 2015 at 7:40:35 pm

So, as many did, I departed FCP for Premiere 5 years ago.

Now Adobe wants $50 per month instead of the $30 I've been paying. I think it's too much,

So I'm in need of a full featured, fast pro grade editor. The requirement is 4K, multiple monitors, etc

With 10 upgrades since the original was released is it now what we all wanted in 2009?

Your thoughts and comments are encouraged


Darren


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David Mathis
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 5, 2015 at 8:21:31 pm

When version X, that is the number 10 and not the letter "X", first came out, was not sure what to do. Decided to take a chance around 10.0.6 or so, never really looked back since then.

Despite some of the "It looks like iMovie" or "It is a toy" comments floating around, the current version is very much pro grade software.

A few things to keep in mind is that there is slightly less integration between FCP X and Motion 5 as there is with the "Dynamic Link" with Adobe products. In previous versions of FCP there was "Send To Motion", not so with X, something to consider. On the flip side of the coin, you can create custom built generators, titles, effects, and transitions inside of Motion to use in FCP X, which can save time.

Two things that I like about X is the magnetic timeline, which may take a little effort to get used to, and the organizing features. Connected clips will allow you to make around big chunks of clips, keeping everything in synch and avoid clip collisions. Finder tags can be brought in as keywords to help further organize.

Media management has improved as well, this was implemented a couple of versions back.

You might need X to 7 and 7 to X if you have another editing software in the mix. Both are available in the App Store, but then again, you might not need them.

The only downside is no keyframing of color correction, and keyframing needs some improvement.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 5, 2015 at 10:26:38 pm

If you do delivery work for broadcast you don't want to go to FCPX at this point.

Tim


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 5, 2015 at 11:24:58 pm

[TImothy Auld] "If you do delivery work for broadcast"

I do.

[TImothy Auld] "you don't want to go to FCPX at this point."

I do. And I have. So have many others.

But one must be ready and willing to understand and use X on its terms. It's not Avid or Premiere or anything else. To try to replicate those workflows on X is doomed to frustration and failure.


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Darren Kelly
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 5, 2015 at 11:42:23 pm

Well the statement that you have to use it on your own terms and it's not premiere or avid tells me this might be the right move for me. Maybe I need a look at Avid

Frustrating at a minimum


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 12:03:38 am

Perhaps I should clarify that point.

X is fully capable of importing, editing and exporting broadcast-quallity video and audio in standard broadcast formats. The recent update to pro codecs filled in MXF capabilities, which for many was the last missing piece.

In spite of the much-discussed (and often mis-represented or merely misunderstood) differences in workflow and/or specific techniques, X is far more like Avid or Premiere or FCP Legacy than it is different. (Kinda like the difference in DNA between chimps and humans is less than 3 percent or some such small amount!)

That being said, not having tracks in the conventional sense takes some getting used to. Some people freak out having one primary edit window. And yes, Apple changed some of the customary nomenclature (some with good reason, others seemingly just because they could!).

The biggest hurdle for most is jumping in and thinking, "how do I do (_____) , which I always do in Premiere, in X?" Sometimes it's a simple change of keystrokes. But often it's the wrong question. A more experienced X user would reply, "you don't, because you don't need to in X" or "X does this instead, which accomplishes the same thing."

That's what I mean by using X on its terms, rather than trying to make it a direct Premiere or Avid replacement. Personally, after decades on Avid and FCP (and several other NLEs), I find X to be a breath of fresh air. I'm enjoying the editing process more now on X than I have in years.

But you must dive in and try a real project on it and give it more than a week to wrap your head around the differences.


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Andy Neil
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 12:11:30 am

[Jeff Markgraf] "But you must dive in and try a real project on it and give it more than a week to wrap your head around the differences."

Took me at least 3 weeks before I started to feel comfortable, myself.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Alan Lacey
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 10, 2015 at 2:17:23 pm

"how do I do (create burnt in clip TC)

Not an unreasonable, or particularly professional, request.

Alan

XdcamEx & HD, C300, DSLRs, all sorts of production & post gear and a very untidy desk. On the East Coast of the UK


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 12:47:07 am

[Darren Kelly] "Now Adobe wants $50 per month instead of the $30 I've been paying. I think it's too much,"

Have you tried letting your subscription lapse and then renewing it? Might still get the $30 price.


[Darren Kelly] "Well the statement that you have to use it on your own terms and it's not premiere or avid tells me this might be the right move for me. Maybe I need a look at Avid

Frustrating at a minimum"


I haven't used X, but every program makes you use it on its own terms. Some are more flexible than others, but each program has an underlying 'philosophy' that it adheres to for the most part. My old line was that FCP Legend was very flexible but it would happily give you enough rope to hang yourself where as Avid made you walk a more narrow path but did a better job of keeping users out of harm's way. Neither was inherently better, it all just depended on the what the user preferred and what the workflow for the project demanded.


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Dean Neal
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 12, 2015 at 3:24:50 pm
Last Edited By Dean Neal on Feb 12, 2015 at 3:30:55 pm

Tim's comment is absolute garbage, a generic, presumptious statement.

I know of countless people using FCPX for National Broadcast work - including I.

Why do I bother with this forum...

Dean Neal...


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Mitch Ives
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 2:44:21 am

[David Mathis] "The only downside is no keyframing of color correction, and keyframing needs some improvement."

Agreed, but I'm not sure I'd say that's the only downside. As you mention, there isn't a "Send to Motion", and there is definitely room for improvement in the audio area.

Is it safe to come back... yes. Definitely yes.

Like every program it won't have everything. And there will be minor set backs like the lags we're all experiencing with the current OS, but those will be addressed.

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Andy Neil
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 5, 2015 at 8:27:45 pm

Not sure it's what everyone wanted. After all, the magnetic timeline is not going away and some people can't get past that. But if you know how to use it, it's very useful.

However, it's compatible with multiple monitors, 4K, multicam (best around IMO), roundtrip to Resolve, and in general a very pro app. You'd need to purchase some 3rd party add-ons depending on your workflow, but those are one-time purchases that still add up to less than Avid's suite of programs, or Adobe's persistent rent charge.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Mark Suszko
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 5, 2015 at 10:10:23 pm

It's ready enough, now. And pretty simple to learn.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 12:12:39 am

Magnetic timeline has absolutely nothing to do with delivery to anything.

Tim


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Darren Kelly
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 1:37:37 am

I did some research on Avids site and forum, and there is no cost saving, just a bunch of guys complaining over non working new features. . The pricing has gone back to Avids over $1000 price tag and you pay for more, and it's system specs are either expensive or old.

I run a powerful 30TB Hackintosh, and an Air. Premiere runs well on both.

I guess I just suck it up


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 2:45:02 am

Avid has many improvements in version 8. But it's fundamentally the same program. I've used it successfully for many years. It is what it is.

If it were me, I'd give X another try. Take advantage of Linda or Ripple or whatever training course you prefer. Lots of help available here. Give it at least a month to really get comfortable, and try to work on some real projects, not just tutorials.

And the low cost is a real plus, even when factoring in the various plug-ins and helper programs. But don't try it with older hardware - that way lies madness.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 3:25:57 am
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Feb 6, 2015 at 3:26:21 am

[Darren Kelly] "I did some research on Avids site and forum, and there is no cost saving, just a bunch of guys complaining over non working new features."

Like every app, you've got people who love it and people who hate it with every upgrade. Basically you buy MC for a fixed price and then pay for an annual support contract for each year after the first. That's $299/yr and includes all software updates. Unlike Adobe, if you stop at any point, you still own what you bought and it continues to work at that level. Or, you can go with a software subscription. Your choice.

[Darren Kelly] "and it's system specs are either expensive or old."

I don't know what that means. If Premiere runs, so does MC. The specs are based on machines that have actually been tested and qualified. Plenty of others work and installing a trial copy for 30 days will tell you with certainty whether it works or not on your Hack. With MC 8.3, 8GB RAM is a minimum.

As far as broadcast delivery with X, I'm not sure what Tim's beef is. I deliver for broadcast routinely from both X and Premiere. Of course, no one in my market does anything with tape any longer, so X's lack of direct tape output isn't an issue. Even there, though, you can generate a file and lay off to tape using an AJA or BMD utility. Not ideal, but not really a big impediment. Quality-wise, there are no issues with X.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 6:09:04 am

Darren, does your workflow include sending audio to sound post & picture for grade. It is important to check potential issues of workflow with those facilities. Depending on what tools and OS/ hardware they use, they may better placed to recommend the best workflow with any of the current NLEs on offer.

To be honest I don't know how many people use a Hackintosh so there may be special issues to worry about with software that is App store based.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 7:34:29 pm

[Michael Gissing] "does your workflow include sending audio to sound post & picture for grade. It is important to check potential issues of workflow with those facilities"

FWIW, Mine does. I do this from X (yes, u need X2Pro and EDL-X) all the time with no issues.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 12:55:50 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Like every app, you've got people who love it and people who hate it with every upgrade. "

Exactly. Also, when sifting through the information here, make sure that a particular bit of "knowledge" comes from someone who actually uses the software, versus commenting on it from afar. The old tag line "...but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night..." doesn't really work. Find the folks who have been in the trenches with the options you are weighing (such as Mr. Peters, above) and give extra weight to those comments.

MHO.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Walter Soyka
Re: Is it safe to come back
on Feb 6, 2015 at 1:51:31 pm

Consulting on workflow, I've moved some clients from FCP7 to Pr and others to FCPX. Everyone is happy and productive.

All the major NLEs are capable. Unless you have some specific workflow requirements, I think the most important thing is to grok the design philosophy of the product(s) you use.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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