FORUMS: list search recent posts

Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
David Mathis
Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
on Jan 27, 2015 at 5:15:24 pm

Might as well ask why, since we are asking the mirror on the wall who is the best of them all. ;-)

For me groups, pre-comps are a pain in the caboose
Groups can also act like an adjustment layer but pay attention to any groups inside another group
Realtime performance, for the most part
Heads Up Display
Integration with FCP X in the context of custom generators, titles, transitions and effects
Price -- does an insane amount of pure awesome stuff, no subscription required
Fun to work with, just like its friend X


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
on Jan 27, 2015 at 5:31:48 pm

In my neck of the woods I see a lot of editing gigs where you are expected to know AE. I can't remember seeing one where you were expected to know Motion. That's a big reason why AE is better than Motion for me. ;)


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
on Jan 27, 2015 at 7:05:39 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Jan 27, 2015 at 7:52:11 pm

I can't speak to Motion's strengths or weaknesses. But here's why I think AE rules the roost as a hybrid motion graphics/VFX/finishing tool.

  • The AE community - Ae has a deep bench of smart, dedicated users who have built a knowledge base and a culture which makes it easy for new users to understand what AE is, and what it takes to get high end results out of the software.


  • The Built in tools - Ae has some of the best and most unique tools for creating both motion graphics and VFX; warp stabilizer, puppet tool; Noise and Grain tools, Shatter, the Cycore plugins, etc. EDIT: Should have mentioned 3D tracking


  • Bundled applications - the inclusion of Cinema 4D Lite and Mocha AE puts Ae in a class of its own. It's just AMAZING what a talented person can do with these tools alone.


  • Available plugins - Too many great ones to list. However, everything from Trapcode and RedGiant, Boris and Video Copilot should be at the top any serious AE user's list


  • Expressions and Scripting - Ae's capabilities can be extended and enhanced through scripting; UI tweaks, unique tool creation, automation etc. Expressions are also SUPER useful for cutting down on repetitive tasks, linking parameters and creating parametric animations/behaviors


  • Flexibility and stability - Ae is best of breed for motion graphics creation, but it also sits very comfortably in a VFX pipeline. It may not be the "best" all around compositor, but for quick-turnaround animation and "lite composites", AE is still pretty tough to beat. I know of a few VFX heavy television shows that mostly use Ae and Maya/Lightwave... with very little Nuke in the mix.


  • I wish I had time to finish this out... but my render just finished. Back to work! :-)

    EDIT: I meant to add that I don' think one is better than the other (Ae vs Motion), they're just different.

    Shawn



    Return to posts index


    Marco Feil
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 27, 2015 at 7:22:08 pm

    I do mostly motion graphics and very few vfx and I think you can do most things in both apps. Motion may look a bit simple on first look but once you dig a little you'll discover it's really powerful. And it's so much faster to work with. Most of my projects run in realtime or near realtime without rendering - you get instant feedback adjusting things.. And if there's a missing feature most of the time theres a plugin for it..

    The Integration of Motion titles, generators and effects with Final Cut X is really great, I use it all the time. I prepare a lot of titles and effects for other editors so they can adjust colors, text, blendmodes and more on the fly. AE/Premiere Dynamic link is much less flexible and renders awfully slow compared to Motion/FCPX.

    The only things in AE I sometimes miss are the Warp Stabilizer and Puppet Tool. For Planar or 3D Tracking and 3D Animation I use other Apps. I don't do scripting, so the behaviors in Motion fit my needs.

    Though I do worry sometimes because there wasn't a really big update since the facelift 4->5. I hope there'll be a Motion X with a big feature upgrade in the foreseeable future.


    Return to posts index

    Mark Suszko
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 27, 2015 at 8:20:57 pm

    I don't think it's a question of either-or. Both have their charms. I took a class on AE after first learning Motion and I have to say Motion, to me, is way more intuitive to learn and use, from a beginner's standpoint. If you understand Photoshop, you understand Motion. AE has more firepower, without a doubt. However, not every gig you do NEEDS a lot of "firepower". For the more average daily tasks like building an animated graphic, I think both apps do about as well. But Motion to me seems easier, cleaner, simpler to understand on sight. With the addition of plug-ins for 3d CGI, Motion can do much pf what AE does with Cinema4D.
    Where each app shines is in integration with their respective associated NLE. So if you're an FCPX person, Motion seems a more natural first "go-to" than using AE, and if you're a Premiere driver, then AE is what you'd tend to want to use for things premiere isn't as good at.

    I just can't get too stirred-up about it: either way you choose, you still win. It's more about personal preference and how you look at the job, than asking if the tools are up to the job.


    Return to posts index

    Herb Sevush
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 12:29:58 am

    [Mark Suszko] "AE has more firepower, without a doubt. However, not every gig you do NEEDS a lot of "firepower". For the more average daily tasks like building an animated graphic, I think both apps do about as well. But Motion to me seems easier, cleaner, simpler to understand on sight."

    To me Motion is an "editors" tool and AE is an "EFX/Compositors" tool. Having switched to CC I very much miss the ease of Motion, I much prefer groups to pre-copming and I sorely miss the ease of throwing some fades onto a clip without resorting to key framing, however the inability to "send to Motion" from within X is another nail in that coffin for me.

    Herb Sevush
    Zebra Productions
    ---------------------------
    nothin' attached to nothin'
    "Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


    Return to posts index


    David Mathis
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 12:39:01 am

    The lack of Send To Motion is a major bummer, dude. I prefer expressions over behaviors, though. The only thing that keeps me from using After Effects is that darn rental only model. Keeping an eye on Fusion, no pun intended.


    Return to posts index

    Shawn Miller
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 1:01:19 am

    [David Mathis] "The lack of Send To Motion is a major bummer, dude. I prefer expressions over behaviors, though. The only thing that keeps me from using After Effects is that darn rental only model. Keeping an eye on Fusion, no pun intended."

    David, I know you're a Blackmagic camera user as well. Does Motion debayer raw formats? If so, how is the performance with CinemaDNG, if not, how does Motion fit into your raw workflow?

    Shawn



    Return to posts index

    David Mathis
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 1:11:53 am

    I honestly don't know, hoping someone else has the answer. Resolve is used to render individual clips in ProRes codec along with XML for use in X. Typically use a Rec709 LUT in the workflow. Then back to Resolve for color grading, then back to X for finishing. Now that Red Giant Universe is supported in Resolve, it will be used for finishing. I realize that answer is a bit off track and as far as I know Motion does not handle raw files in their native format. Could be wrong.

    As far as the workflow described above, Denver Riddle has a video tutorial on Color Grading Central, a very easy task. Hope this answer is useful. Plan to get some test footage with a Rokinin lens that was recently purchased.


    Return to posts index


    Shawn Miller
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 1:33:37 am

    Ah, I see. I was curious to know if you could work with a raw format inside Motion. I have a similar workflow to yours with Resolve>XML>Premiere/Ae>XML> Resolve. Although, sometimes it's Cineform>Premiere/Ae, or just straight to AE... depending on what it is, and how fast I need to get it out.

    Shawn



    Return to posts index

    David Mathis
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 2:13:04 am

    Just attempted to bring in BMCC raw footage with the result of it being brought in as an image sequence, playback was a bit choppy. Frames were skipped, don't think they were dropped. So it looks like transcoding is necessary.

    When life gives me lemons, there are two ways I look at it: As lemonade or a gas guzzling clunker that could fall apart on me at any moment. I prefer lemonade.


    Return to posts index

    Shawn Miller
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 2:17:28 am

    [David Mathis] "Just attempted to bring in BMCC raw footage with the result of it being brought in as an image sequence, playback was a bit choppy. Frames were skipped, don't think they were dropped. So it looks like transcoding is necessary."

    Ah, good to know. The upside is that you may not need RT playback for certain things, like keying. Better to at least have the option. :-)

    Shawn



    Return to posts index


    David Mathis
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 5:35:11 pm

    I wish X would work with the files in their native format. Rendering is a pain in the caboose.


    Return to posts index

    David Mathis
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 30, 2015 at 2:20:29 am

    I wonder if the Radeon 5770 card is not the best option and whether to go with a GTX 780 instead.

    When life gives me lemons, there are two ways I look at it: As lemonade or a gas guzzling clunker that could fall apart on me at any moment. I prefer lemonade.


    Return to posts index

    Kannan Raghavan
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 1:00:07 am

    [Herb Sevush] "To me Motion is an "editors" tool and AE is an "EFX/Compositors" tool"
    True. Motion was designed by an editor. I find it much easier to use Motion than AE. I'm in and out of Motion faster, resulting in me using the software a lot more:) AE is very powerful as everyone knows, just not for me.

    Kannan Raghavan
    The Big Toad Films Pte. Ltd.


    Return to posts index


    Walter Soyka
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 3:24:33 pm

    [Herb Sevush] "I sorely miss the ease of throwing some fades onto a clip without resorting to key framing"

    Anything that you can do with a behavior can be written as an expression.

    After Effects ships with pre-written expressions saved as animation presets which allow you to fade layers without keyframing. Search the Effects & Presets panel for "fade" and you'll get a few drag-and-drop presets:

    Fade In Over Layer Below
    Fade In+Out - frames
    Fade In+Out - msec
    Fade Out Over Layer Below

    These should save you some time and frustration.

    Walter Soyka
    Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
    Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
    @keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


    Return to posts index

    Herb Sevush
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 3:50:06 pm

    [Walter Soyka] "
    After Effects ships with pre-written expressions saved as animation presets which allow you to fade layers without keyframing. Search the Effects & Presets panel for "fade" and you'll get a few drag-and-drop presets:"


    Thanks, as always you are a fountain of useful information.

    Herb Sevush
    Zebra Productions
    ---------------------------
    nothin' attached to nothin'
    "Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


    Return to posts index

    Walter Soyka
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 29, 2015 at 3:39:39 pm

    [Herb Sevush] "To me Motion is an "editors" tool and AE is an "EFX/Compositors" tool."

    There's a lot to this statement. I've referred to Motion countless times here as offering a high floor and a low ceiling, whereas Ae has a low floor and a high ceiling. I think Herb might be expressing a similar idea here.

    Whether you're an editor or a designer, if you give yourself 10-15 minutes to produce a graphic from scratch, chances are you'd get a much better result from Motion. You can start from a pretty good template, you can have realtime previews while you work, you don't have to think about keyframing ever if you don't want to. That's the high floor.

    But as a motion designer, I don't use Ae in quarter-hour chunks of time. I use it as my primary tool for days or weeks at a time on a project.

    I like Motion. I've been using it since version 1, though my usage has dropped off a lot with versions 4 and 5. It's a great tool, built with a great philosophy. I certainly don't mean to call Motion a toy, but when you approach Ae and Motion for complex work, full-on mograph -- beyond the titling, transitions, or effects work typical in editorial -- you find that Ae has industrial-strength scalability in a way that Motion does not. That's the low ceiling.

    Bad analogy: Motion is a sketchpad, Ae is the whole studio.

    What's the difference? After Effects has tools for managing complexity. Motion does not. One very clear example of this is groups vs. precomps. Although they are often used in the same way, they are not the same thing at all. Motion's one timeline per project design is a crushing organizational limitation.

    Motion's behaviors can provide very rich and expressive animation, especially when layered, but they still lack the power of program flow control that expressions can provide. Motion's lack of scripting severely limits automation potential, meaning that pretty much everything you do in Motion must be done by hand.

    To provide a sense of scale with respect the way we use Ae for motion graphics, I collected some stats over the major motion graphics pieces we produced last year. Here are the median results:

    Project Items: 632
    Project Folders: 38
    Movies: 11
    Stills: 172
    Solids: 59
    Comps: 245
    Layers: 2,704
    Shape Layers: 686
    Text Layers: 235
    Effects: 853
    Modified Properties: 31,752
    Total Properties: 456,858
    Keyframes: 10,818
    Expressions: 7,062
    Max item reuse: 21
    Max comp reuse: 9
    Max Precomp Depth: 6

    The biggest single project we did last year had 8,163 layers in 319 comps. It had 18,192 expressions. It had 122,509 properties modified from their original values. It had 541,648 keyframes.

    Also in the last year, I've also written 2,826 lines of code for scripting After Effects, extending its functionality and improving our workflow, and programmatically making a bunch of those half-million keyframes.

    I'm not trying to engage in chest-thumping. These figures just show the different natures of our jobs. I'm sure we'd see a complementary disparity between my work and the groups' in NLE project complexity if we compared them.

    I am trying to show some real-world, full-time usage of Ae. I view After Effects as a complete visual design and development environment, capable of providing me the tools to solve nearly any problem I come across. While Ae and Motion are comparable for simpler tasks, I cannot imagine how I'd keep my sanity and meet my clients' expectations with Motion alone.

    Walter Soyka
    Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
    Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
    @keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


    Return to posts index


    Herb Sevush
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 29, 2015 at 3:44:06 pm

    [Walter Soyka] " It had 541,648 keyframes."

    OK, I give up. How do you count the number of keyframes in a project?

    Herb Sevush
    Zebra Productions
    ---------------------------
    nothin' attached to nothin'
    "Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


    Return to posts index

    Walter Soyka
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 29, 2015 at 3:49:04 pm

    [Herb Sevush] "OK, I give up. How do you count the number of keyframes in a project?"

    I tried using my fingers, but I gave up after 10 and then wrote a script to do it.

    Walter Soyka
    Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
    Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
    @keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


    Return to posts index

    Scot Walker
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Sep 6, 2015 at 4:35:32 pm

    Motion's one timeline per project design is a crushing organizational limitation.

    Motion's behaviors can provide very rich and expressive animation, especially when layered, but they still lack the power of program flow control that expressions can provide. Motion's lack of scripting severely limits automation potential, meaning that pretty much everything you do in Motion must be done by hand


    You can import a Motion project file into another Motion project file. There is your pre-comp behavior you want. You just drag and drop the other project file into the one you are working on and it becomes a group.

    The Mac OS has had AppleScript for many years, coupled with an app to create automation throughout the entire system called Automator. Motion is also based on XML. So there is a lot more scripting and automation ability than you think. For example, someone had Final Cut Pro X text them through the Messages app when their render was finished. As far as batch rendering Motion projects, you can use Compressor to do that, along with scripting.

    There is also a Custom parameter behavior that lets you do a lot of customizing.

    Motion 5 lets you import .txt and .rtf files for your text too so you can do things like just changing a text file and then dragging the motion project files to Compressor for a batch render without having to even open up a project.

    The rigging in Motion 5 and Final Cut Pro X is more powerful. It does so much more than text. Pretty much any object and any parameter can be rigged in Motion 5 and then selected in Final Cut Pro X. That's why there are a TON of impressive templates available for FCP X that are very inexpensive, and they are very customizable in FCP X.

    I'm not saying everything you are doing in AE with scripting by hand can be done in Motion, I'm saying that there is more ability than "pretty much everything you do in Motion must be done by hand." That's not the case.



    Return to posts index

    Walter Soyka
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Sep 8, 2015 at 12:12:06 am

    [Scot Walker] "You can import a Motion project file into another Motion project file. There is your pre-comp behavior you want. You just drag and drop the other project file into the one you are working on and it becomes a group."

    Groups and precomps are fundamentally different, though. Sometimes groups are better than precomps, but organizationally, the one-timeline-per-project thing is incredibly constrictive. The workflow you describe does not lighten the organizational burden that Motion imposes.


    [Scot Walker] "The Mac OS has had AppleScript for many years, coupled with an app to create automation throughout the entire system called Automator."

    Sadly, Motion 5 presents no AppleScript dictionary.


    [Scot Walker] "Motion is also based on XML."

    Yes, and the file format documentation is awesome. It is an example for other developers to emulate!

    Unfortunately, though, there is a lot of useful information not covered by the file format documentation. The lack of that information severely limits what you can reasonably accomplish with programmatic XML modification.

    Having written a few in-house utilities that work on reverse-engineered application data formats, I can tell you that it's much, much nicer working with a scripting interface such as Ae provides than parsing and modifying project file data directly.


    [Scot Walker] "The rigging in Motion 5 and Final Cut Pro X is more powerful. It does so much more than text. Pretty much any object and any parameter can be rigged in Motion 5 and then selected in Final Cut Pro X. That's why there are a TON of impressive templates available for FCP X that are very inexpensive, and they are very customizable in FCP X."

    I absolutely love this feature. It's really well-done.

    I've also developed a workflow that gives Ae/Pr users a part of this flexibility:
    http://www.keenlive.com/renderbreak/2014/06/rigging-ae-comps-with-the-new-t...

    Walter Soyka
    Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
    Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
    @keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


    Return to posts index

    Dan Heflin
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Apr 23, 2016 at 3:03:06 pm

    This was well said and very helpful Walter. Thank you for the comment. Especially the high floor, low ceiling analogy used for Motion. I started using AE first with some compositing projects, but then later wanted to just get some quick and dirty effects in the timeline that I am exploring with Motion. However, when it comes to keyframing and compositing work, there is nothing like AE. I tried another plug-in, SliceX, to use in FCPX, but it does not come close to working like AE.


    Return to posts index

    Bill Davis
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Apr 23, 2016 at 6:41:12 pm

    [Herb Sevush] "however the inability to "send to Motion" from within X is another nail in that coffin for me."

    I know this was posted back in January, Herb - but Wes Plate of Automatic Duck just pulled that nail.

    XSendMotion was announced at NAB and will be out in a month or so.

    Looks Awesome.

    The demo video from the FCPeXchange is coming soon.

    FWIW

    New signature under construction and coming soon. Please stand by...


    Return to posts index

    Herb Sevush
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Apr 23, 2016 at 6:49:53 pm

    [Bill Davis] "I know this was posted back in January, Herb - but Wes Plate of Automatic Duck just pulled that nail."

    One less nail then. Excellent.

    Herb Sevush
    Zebra Productions
    ---------------------------
    nothin' attached to nothin'
    "Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


    Return to posts index

    Steve Connor
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Apr 24, 2016 at 11:45:54 am

    [Bill Davis] "XSendMotion was announced at NAB and will be out in a month or so.

    Looks Awesome. "


    I hope works as advertised, it will prove very useful.


    Return to posts index

    Andre van Berlo
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Apr 23, 2016 at 8:55:09 pm

    I think the "send to motion" problem will soon be solved: http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1798-automatic-duck-announce-xsend...


    Return to posts index

    Andre van Berlo
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Apr 23, 2016 at 8:59:43 pm

    sorry I just noticed someone else mentioned that already...


    Return to posts index

    Walter Soyka
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 3:32:04 pm

    [Marco Feil] "The Integration of Motion titles, generators and effects with Final Cut X is really great, I use it all the time. I prepare a lot of titles and effects for other editors so they can adjust colors, text, blendmodes and more on the fly. "

    I do really like the FCPX/M5 rigging setup. I moved a couple projects off of FCP7 over to FCPX/M5 for this feature.

    But then Ae/Pr CC added live text templates [link], where you could adjust text from Ae comps inside of Premiere. I developed technique for hijacking that feature for rigging [link], using expressions in Ae driven by the Premiere live text template fields. Now I can support rigged templates on Apple and Adobe software.

    Walter Soyka
    Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
    Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
    @keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


    Return to posts index

    David Mathis
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 5:31:25 pm

    Doubt this would ever happen but expressions in Motion would be nice. I remember in AE you could save an expression into a program like Text Edit and anytime you needed it just simply a matter of pasting it back over. Really useful for those long expressions.


    Return to posts index

    Shawn Miller
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Jan 28, 2015 at 7:28:04 pm

    [David Mathis] " I remember in AE you could save an expression into a program like Text Edit and anytime you needed it just simply a matter of pasting it back over. Really useful for those long expressions."

    Yes, absolutely. You can also save expressions in an animation preset - very useful.

    http://helpx.adobe.com/after-effects/using/expression-basics.html#save_and_...

    Shawn



    Return to posts index

    Jonathan Sutton
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Feb 2, 2015 at 1:01:42 am

    I use both, and it depends on the job as well as who I am working with. Dynamic linking in AE is great and Motion lacks this really great feature. You can share projects into FCP X, but its not nearly as flexible as AE. However, Camera behaviors in Motion make animating a scene with the camera a breeze. Especially when time is a factor, camera behaviors save hours of time, especially if lots of unexpected changes are involved.

    Jonathan Sutton
    Video Editor
    The American College Video Studio
    https://vimeo.com/theamericancollege


    Return to posts index

    Mark Suszko
    Re: Enlighten me on why Motion is better than After Effects or not
    on Feb 2, 2015 at 3:27:12 am

    Watching the superb owl game last night, in the third quarter, NBC ran a stats animation using the "city" template from Apple Motion, almost unchanged from defaults. Which is why i recognized it. :-)


    Return to posts index

    << PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
    © 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
    [TOP]