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PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?

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Bob Woodhead
PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 12:45:55 am

One client seems to be moving to PPro from Legacy. As much of my work for that client is "independent" workflow, I'm still at liberty to choose my tools, but I'm planning on investing some time into the current state of PPro, to cover the bases.

Going into that, I'm wondering if those who are fully conversant in both tools could elaborate on some of strengths of PPro vs X. I think it might help focus my efforts in PPro if I know the 411 from others on what things might make PPro a better choice for certain tasks. Don't need super details, a high level bullet list would be great.

Comments can disregard any aspect of "it's good to know multiple editors so as to be more marketable in the freelance world".... this is the only instance where I *might* need to conform to another workflow - all my work since 2003 has been 100% internal post workflow. (And loving it, lol.)


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John Davidson
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 1:01:47 am







John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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David Mathis
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 1:29:34 am

Did you get the memo? We're putting cover sheets on all our TPS reports. Yeah.


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Shane Ross
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 1:07:55 am

Ability to export AAF for ProTools without the need for a 3rd party app. (XtoPro)

Ability to import XML files from FCP Legacy projects and bring in full projects without the need of a third party app. (FCX only does this with iMovie...need 7toX in order to bring FCP 7 into FCX)

Tracks (sorry, being snarky)

Working native with pretty much any video format. FCX does work native with some...a fair amount, but still prefers to "optimize." Although it does this in the background. But FCX's offline to online (proxy to full res) workflow is by far slicker. Also, FCX Multicam is superior to Premiere.

Adobe is PC or Mac...not tied to one OS and computer.

I believe that Premiere can leverage GPU (graphic) better...but you do need to buy specific cards in order for that to happen.

Premiere does require more in order to edit native formats...it does require GOBS of RAM, fast processors, and a good GPU for smooth performance. The benefit of converting to ProRes (like FCX does when it optimizes...in the background) is that you can run it on a less powerful system.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John Davidson
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 1:22:17 am

In all due respect Shane, nothing in that list is a particular deal breaker. Add another $200 in purchases (x2Pro, 7toX, Xto7) and you can run all these apps simultaneously on all the macs you own, not just two machines, forever.

As far as Premiere importing things from other NLE's, one of our clients switched to Premiere for internal deliveries and has had several hiccups. Apparently using MP3 audio vs Wav audio has caused problems for mixers, and then there's some big issue with bringing in FCP XML, (not x, just regular FCP) that has basically forced them to tell all vendors to completely stop using FCP7 when editing for them. It has been quite frustrating for them.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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David Mathis
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 1:37:25 am

Money saved can go to other equipment, such as a new camera or to other software. Saving up for Fusion Studio when it comes out for Mac OS X, no subscription required! ;-)

Going to use the savings for a nice lens set and a shiny Mac Pro as well.


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Shane Ross
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 1:59:50 am

I know...just saying. He asked about differences.

OH...one BIG plus in the FCX column. You buy it once, for $299. And every single update after is free. Buy it once, own it. Premiere? Cannot buy...subscription only. Basically you subscribe to it like cable. And if you stop paying to use it, it stops working. That is a BIG negative in my book.

Avid does this better. Pay yearly and obtain access to all updates. Stop paying, and you still can use the one you have, forever.

But Apple beats that. $299 once...and that's it.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John Davidson
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 2:27:02 am

Totally. I think even a year ago this thread would have been more passionate. Reality is every NLE has a few caveats these days. It always comes down to what you're most comfortable with or what you can use without being distracted by how you're using it.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 11:44:54 am

Thanks, everyone! I realized that in my OP I didn't specify that I'm certainly a fan of, if not exactly an advocate for, FCPX. I say that because I do feel strongly that everyone has their own workflow, criteria, imposed requirements that have more impact in which is the "best" NLE for them, more so than a line-item checklist of all features/limitations combined. And I think that most of the forum would agree.

Excellent points made so far. Anyone else, please chime in. John & David M, yeah, you got me laughing. Very creative answer, JD!

Shane, your PC/Mac point... all it would take is for Apple to piss me off hugely one more time, and that might be a crux argument.

Charlie.... Dynamic Linking, yeah, always liked it, wasn't a big diff. back when Send to Motion worked. :( Mixer - this surprised me the most about moving to X... I *thought* I was gonna hate not having a mixer, but turns out I don't. Lots of room for improvement, but not a deal breaker thought it was gonna be.

David P, if you read this, if you'd elaborate just a bit on flexible relinking? Send to Audition. yeah. Me want Send to Logic.

Very interesting so far! Please, if anyone has more, speak up. Not too much interested in the "file exchange" aspects, due to the joy of keeping it all in house. Love hearing about in-the-trenches sort of stuff that makes up 90% of editing. I honestly was expecting more vocal support for "this is SO much better in PPro" kind of reply, but other than a couple of things it's been more potAto / pohTAHto to my ears.


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Herb Sevush
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:23:49 pm

[Shane Ross] " Also, FCX Multicam is superior to Premiere."

I started a thread about this subject a short while ago and I'd like to hear why you think this is so? Not doubting you, I was under this impression till recently myself, just would like to hear your reasoning on this.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 11:04:37 pm

[Shane Ross] "Premiere does require more in order to edit native formats...it does require GOBS of RAM, fast processors, and a good GPU for smooth performance. "

I think that's overstated? - an i7 processor, 16gb of ram and any gpu over a gig will do pretty much anything - in terms of card media and janky mp4s without a hitch.
that's for 1080p - not speaking to heavy 4K or that, but for 1080p card native mixed with grab bags of codecs for broadcast/corporate reels, premiere will generally eat it like breakfast on anything half well specced inside the last three years.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 1:27:40 am
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Jan 24, 2015 at 1:32:10 am

Big advantages? meh... One is if you use AE heavily. Dynamic Linking is pretty nice.

Also, it has a mixer if you care about that.

FWIW, bringing FCP 7 projects into Pr is kind of a pain audio-wise as all interleaved stereo ends up as split mono as it is in 7. But Pr doesn't make it easy to pair it up other than match back, change audio config in the master, and overcut. No OPT-L analog. Working with split mono "stereo" tracks in Pr is no fun. And by no fun, I mean awful. Going to X via 7toX usually has much better results honestly.

Built in AAF from Pr is nice, though X2Pro creates much nicer PT sessions using Roles.

The Pr UI sometimes feels a little "snappier" as it doesn't redraw "live" when you move clips around just like 7, MC etc.

ummm... I dunno, what else? Built in tracked masks, though Slice X crushes it. Basically it does things out of the box that you'd have to spend a couple hundred bucks or so to do (better) in X via 3'rd parties.

I think the biggest advantage it has is that it's easy to jump into it from 7, at least on the surface...

(begin snark). But it has tracks, which suck. ;-) (end snark)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andy Field
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:19:44 am

"Working with mono stereo tracks is no fun In Pr Pro"

Easily solved...in audio preferences you can chose to import mono stereo clips as split track mono....done


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:28:58 am

[Andy Field] "Easily solved...in audio preferences you can chose to import mono stereo clips as split track mono....done"

Not sure if that works when importing FCP 7 XML does it? I've got no problems importing audio into an existing project. Importing fcp 7 xml results in a bit of a mess...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Powell
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 8:37:52 am
Last Edited By David Powell on Jan 24, 2015 at 9:05:11 am

I won't repeat what has already been mentioned but these are important to me.

Superior Markers
Flexible relinking
Ability to save customized effects and use later
Flexible proxy and full res mixing on the timeline
Multi-timeline stacked editing
Superior color tools
FAR superior audio sweetening tools with send to audition
Better trim options. I've said it before but FCP's extend edit really sucks compared to everything else.

Of course there are things that are superior in FCPX but you already know the software and pricing so its not worth mentioning. I will say that tracks do suck in PP vs FCPX in a way that they don't suck in say Avid, because the patching system isn't that well thought out and is clunky like FCP 7 as is the multi-edit trim selection. But if you're used to FCP 7 it won't feel so bad.


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TImothy Auld
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 11:34:44 pm

Markers are important to me and in my opinion they are barely functional in Legend, X, or Premiere. If there is one area when Avid still wins hands down, markers are it.

Tim


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Dennis Radeke
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 10:39:45 am

[TImothy Auld] "Markers are important to me and in my opinion they are barely functional in Legend, X, or Premiere. If there is one area when Avid still wins hands down, markers are it."

Can you tell me what is lacking in markers for Premiere Pro and/or what it is that Avid does so well in this area?

For reference, here is a page describing Premiere Pro's marker capabilities: Markers

Thanks,
Dennis


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Andy Field
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 10:47:12 am

If you set up new project with those audio rules and import xml it should still work


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Daniel Ludwig
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:47:50 am

.... but to export discrete audio-tracks from within PP nearly impossible.

other disadvantage: audio time-remapping. if you need to need to do a conforming 25>23.98 or others, audio ALLWAYS needs to be rendered prior playback. with FCP X do the conforming -> audio will play straight away, no render needed.

another one: XML-export from text-elements NOT possible

if you working with old-school DVD or Bluray (I am such an editor) and you need to export subtitles it´s impossible. premiere is not writing the text that will be created within the title-tool into the XML-file so you can´t use it for other workflows of generating subtitles out of the XML.

-> could easily be done with FCP X.


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 27, 2015 at 7:20:34 pm

[Andy Field] ""Working with mono stereo tracks is no fun In Pr Pro"

Easily solved...in audio preferences you can chose to import mono stereo clips as split track mono....done"


Nope. Unless there's another setting, it has no effect on files imported via XML. Everything comes in split, and can't be combined in the timeline. You can link L/R, but they still act as independent mono files. Going from 7 to X used to result in the same thing, but IA fixed it. I'm sure it's because the sequence calls for discrete L/R tracks, but it's a huge PITA...

SETTINGS:



File Via XML:



File Imported on it's own:



-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Walter Soyka
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 2:39:41 pm

First, a note on my perspective. My use case is different than a lot of folks here. I use an NLE a couple times a week, but I'm not a creative editor anymore and I don't live in my NLE at work. I'm a designer, and After Effects is my primary application.

For me, using Premiere Pro isn't just about Premiere; it's about how Premiere works with the rest of the Creative Cloud tools.

Dynamic link is cool (and you can hijack it to get template rigging with Ae/Pr [link]), but there are other lesser-publicized integration features like source-side metadata, project link metadata (knowing what project a media file was rendered from), copy and paste across applications, and SpeedGrade direct link.

There are common UI conventions across apps, and across platforms. The software works on my Macs, and it works on my HP workstations, and it works on my Surface.

I look at Premiere as part of a package that includes a lot of other creative tools: Ae, Pr, Il, Au, Sg. Nearly all of my editorial work now is finishing, creative in look but technical in nature. Premiere is a strong application in its own right, but it's also the NLE that best fits with the other creative tools I want to use to get my work done.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Bob Woodhead
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 3:08:37 pm

Absolutely a strong feature of the suite approach. Always has been. Project link metadata sounds cool & useful when in the thick of making GFX revs.


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Oliver Peters
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:29:20 pm

Both apps have their pros and cons, but I'll frame this post in a PPro-centric way. I would add to some of the things already mentioned. Media support isn't just import and edit, but also export. A wider range of exported formats are supported via AME. Intermediate codecs include ProRes (Mac), DNxHD, AVC-Intra, uncompressed, CineForm, various legacy QT codecs (like Animation) and MPEG-2 I-frame. This makes for better cross-platform and cross-application interchange.

My experience working the FCP X timeline and PPro timelines is that in PPro, the UI response is much more instant than in X. When you trim a clip using the contextual cursor, in PPro the tool immediate switches modes. With X, there's always a lag as the UI has to "think". Pro has a lot of great right-click contextual menus. For example "Replace" is substantially faster and better for thinks like swapping out clips and graphics.

The tabbed timeline window is superior to X's timeline history. I can't get any version of X to hold a lot of sequences in the history. It seems to always forget a few as I go back and forth. If you work between sequences, PPro allows you to have multiple sequence windows open instead of tabbed, making it easier to go back and forth. these can be stacked for easy back and forth for comparison and drag-and-drop.

Needless to say, Adobe's tools are cross platform, allowing you to build a faster, more powerful, custom machine on the PC, if you are willing to consider Windows.

That's not to say that PPro doesn't have its quirks, too. Working with multiple projects/session/productions/libraries/whatever is better in X than in PPro. PPro has to write a bunch of cache and XMP files that often have to be rewritten when moving around in a SAN environment. Load times with large projects can be slow.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:05:48 pm

[Oliver Peters] "The tabbed timeline window is superior to X's timeline history. I can't get any version of X to hold a lot of sequences in the history. It seems to always forget a few as I go back and forth"

One of its most annoying "features"


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David Mathis
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:13:37 pm

I prefer organizing in FCP X over anything else. Tags can be created on the finder level and transition over. Also, metadata from the BMCC goes in as well. As long as the footage is in ProRes, raw not yet.

While never having used Speedgrade, I find Resolve very good. Much rather trim in Resolve, never been on a strong point of any version of Final Cut, same goes for keyframing. Sure you have to add on some extra stuff for FCP X, but in some instances you get to choose tools you want, even need. Much prefer this approach over rental only to avoid paying for things that are not necessary. Everyone is different.

As for After Effects, never cared for pre-comps as groups in Motion seem a better approach. They can act as both a pre-comp (minus the headaches) and as an adjustment layer, only affecting layers inside that group. Just beware any groups in there are affected as well.

Keeping an eye on Fusion, no pun intended. Looking at that to replaceAE and Photoshop for more complex work. Of course node based approach can present a challenge but not having to think in layers can be very liberating. Flowcharts are fun to look at. :-)

Enough of my ranting, carry on!

Less clicking, more editing -- the power of X!


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Herb Sevush
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:21:41 pm

Not being an X editor I will say the biggest plus for me working in Ppro over Legacy is audio. There is a full fledged track mixer with sends that allow for adding effects on a track basis as well as creating final mixes, for instance my specs for PBS are stereo on 1 & 2 and mono mix on 3&4. With the track mixer it's very simple using sends and a submix.

Also the ability to send audio to Audition for repair using the spectral analysis tool is amazing. Example - during interview cell phone goes off in background - isolate just that part of the track with cuts, right click and send to audition, immediately see the phone rings in the spectral analyzer, paint them out, save and then switch back to PPro and the ringing is gone. Some sounds are harder to fix then others, but with practice you can either remove or improve anything. I use it on popped plosives all the time, it's incredibly quick and the results are perfect.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Chris Frantz
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:02:08 pm

This is an easy one for me. Being able to turn off waveforms, way faster waveform handling, extending multiple clips at once, disabling video only without a workaround, multiple workspaces, syncing settings across multiple stations in one click, proper integration with a DAW, compositer, logging tool, etc. also assignable colors, multiple tabs, the superior media explorer, full screening any window, way better A/V support, Avid keyboard shortcut defaults, customer support, curves, rapid updates, track mixer, setting master eq's, scrolling timeline, the list goes on and on. I still like FCPX, but premiere is pretty clearly the stand-out winner (currently). I expect the Yosemite update will even the playing ground again however.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 7:36:45 pm

[Chris Frantz] " Being able to turn off waveforms, way faster waveform handling, extending multiple clips at once, disabling video only without a workaround, multiple workspaces, syncing settings across multiple stations in one click, proper integration with a DAW, compositer, logging tool, etc. also assignable colors, multiple tabs, the superior media explorer, full screening any window, way better A/V support, Avid keyboard shortcut defaults, customer support, curves, rapid updates, track mixer, setting master eq's, scrolling timeline"

Good list! But you'll see I highlighted the points that I would find useful to me, or are not an issue for me in X for whatever reason. Different horses, as it were. But the ones I like are not trivial.

I think when this thread slows down, I'll make a closing post that summarizes those things that people have said that would be "pluses" for my workflow. (everyone's is different!)

Thanks, Chris!


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Chris Harlan
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 11:15:33 pm

[Bob Woodhead] "multiple workspaces"

This is a big one for me.


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:10:30 pm

[Herb Sevush] "for instance my specs for PBS are stereo on 1 & 2 and mono mix on 3&4. With the track mixer it's very simple using sends and a submix. "

This is actually pretty simple in X as well. Hopefully we'll get a "Role Mixer" or ability to route Roles to sends/busses. For now, worst case if you need mono comps of stereo stems you just need to prep a mastering project with the comps for what you need. Had to deliver this the other day and was really easy...



[Herb Sevush] "Also the ability to send audio to Audition for repair using the spectral analysis tool is amazing"

A nice feature for sure. in X, I use izotope - also amazing - for that. You do need to buy it though so there's that. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Herb Sevush
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 8:46:34 pm

[Charlie Austin] " in X, I use izotope - also amazing"

Does RX4 come up as a plug-in within X?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 9:17:42 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Does RX4 come up as a plug-in within X?"

Not at this point unfortunately, but it's just a couple clicks to get to it.. Be nice if they could integrate into the sharing pane like X2Pro does now. I hope we see more functions like that in an update.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 24, 2015 at 9:38:59 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Not at this point unfortunately, but it's just a couple clicks to get to it.."

Speaking about audio, there's no CALM-compliant loudness metering in X. On my broadcast spots that I cut in X, I've lately exported a master file and then brought that into Premiere Pro CC. Then I add a touch of compression and adjust the spots volume based on the radar loudness meter. Plus, local market formats are all over the map in the way of formats, so I set up a queue for all varieties in AME and let her rip.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bob Woodhead
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 12:56:05 am
Last Edited By Bob Woodhead on Jan 25, 2015 at 12:56:46 am

[Oliver Peters] "Speaking about audio, there's no CALM-compliant loudness metering in X."

Not natively, but plugins like Waves WLM Plus offer LKFS, among other metering specs, and has full AU GUI display in X.


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Oliver Peters
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 1:01:45 am

[Bob Woodhead] "Not natively, but plugins like Waves WLM Plus offer LKFS, among other metering specs, and has full AU GUI display in X."

Unfortunately that requires compounding the audio mix. Since a monitoring filter would be applied as an effect, volume control happens after the effects stack. Therefore, you can't use the volume slider on the compound to lower the level before the monitoring filter is applied.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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tony west
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 3:05:43 am

[Charlie Austin] "[Herb Sevush] "Does RX4 come up as a plug-in within X?"

Not at this point unfortunately, but it's just a couple clicks to get to it.. Be nice if they could integrate into the sharing pane like X2Pro does now. I hope we see more functions like that in an update"


It actually does come up right in X with the other tools. I use it inside X most of the time. It's dialogue denoiser is great in there. You can not use all of the tools in X though.

If I want to paint out a cell phone I have to go into the stand alone suite.


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 3:39:43 am

[tony west] "If I want to paint out a cell phone I have to go into the stand alone suite."

Yeah, that's what I was referring to... Pretty easy though anyway.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 2:07:51 pm

[tony west] "It actually does come up right in X with the other tools. I use it inside X most of the time. It's dialogue denoiser is great in there. You can not use all of the tools in X though."

You're talking about the individual filter. Right? I don't think X let's you use the RX Connect module as a conduit to the RX4 standalone suite.

FWIW - this function is built-into Premiere Pro with Audition.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 2:13:48 pm

Another plus on the Adobe side is that CC2014.1 added built-in bezier masking and tracking for each clip. It's built right into the effects control panel.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 5:16:03 pm

[Oliver Peters] "added built-in bezier masking and tracking for each clip. It's built right into the effects control panel."

The odd thing, assuming it's using bits of code from AE, is that the tracking isn't really very good right now. Slice-X in FCP is way more accurate. Of course it isn't built-in or free, but I guess ya get what you pay for... ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:25:04 pm

[Charlie Austin] "The odd thing, assuming it's using bits of code from AE, is that the tracking isn't really very good right now."

It seems to work fine when I've used it, but that's only been with loose masks. Of course, you also have Mocha AE and AE's own tracker as part of the CC package.

This gets us back to the need for a "send to Motion" option from inside FCP X.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:35:42 pm

[Oliver Peters] "It seems to work fine when I've used it, but that's only been with loose masks."

It does work OK for stuff like that, but trying to track "difficult" objects isn't very accurate in this version.

[Oliver Peters] "Of course, you also have Mocha AE and AE's own tracker as part of the CC package.
"


True. I don't need to do this a lot in Pr so I'll just do it in X and export a comp if it comes up. I always have X open with a copy of the Pr project anyway since it's easier for me to find stuff (generally SFX, but filmstrip view for long feature sources comes in handy too) in X and then relocate it in Pr. Charlie = cheap. :-)


[Oliver Peters] "This gets us back to the need for a "send to Motion" option from inside FCP X."

Yes, it does. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Dennis Radeke
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 10:20:38 pm

[Charlie Austin] "The odd thing, assuming it's using bits of code from AE, is that the tracking isn't really very good right now."

Charlie, in general if you're creating the mask to track, you want to make the mask the same or smaller than the object - cut on or just inside the area you want to track. The reason is that if you go wide of the selection, the tracker thinks you want to track that area too. For example, if you're tracking a person in the foreground, cut the mask small and use the expansion to get the right size. If you track outside the person, you're tracking background content which won't jive.

In the confusing worlds of trackers, there are point, planar, 2d, 3d trackers and probably a couple more I've never heard of... ;-)

Hope this makes sense.
Dennis - Adobe Guy


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 10:50:28 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "In the confusing worlds of trackers, there are point, planar, 2d, 3d trackers and probably a couple more I've never heard of... ;-)

Hope this makes sense."


Thanks Dennis, it makes sense. And to be fair, by "not very good" I was really comparing it to how AE (and Slice-X) works. It is a nice built in feature, guess I'm just spoiled by Mocha-powered results. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 11:31:49 pm

it's not bad though charlie - I've found in context freeform bezier masking with tracking - such as it is - for CC a bit of a revelation? Nevermind you can plop the entire edit into speedgrade with a full roundtrip in seconds basically. that nearly feels ludicrous.

i'm one of the idiots that held to the old style of shifting the edit to AE for dupe layered screen/multiply masking dodge and burn with adjustment layers on top for final grade.

that ppro is currently doing that entire task in realtime, on native media, is still somewhat blowing my mind? X is grand-ish for CC - but ppro is outright crazy.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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tony west
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 2:49:13 pm

[Oliver Peters] "You're talking about the individual filter. Right? "

I was talking about that because he said this "as a plug-in within X"

But Herb is a grown man. He can decide if I answered his question or not.


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 5:11:43 pm

[Oliver Peters] "FWIW - this function is built-into Premiere Pro with Audition."

To clarify, it works with Audition, PPro uses the standalone app as does X. So cheapskates like me who don't subscribe to Audition don't get that function. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:20:38 pm

[Charlie Austin] "So cheapskates like me who don't subscribe to Audition don't get that function. :-)"

Are saying you only got a single-app subscription to PremierePro CC? That doesn't make a lot of financial sense compared with a standard CC subscription. The CC subscription covers everything, or you are stuck with a paid version of only PProCS6 or one of the CS6 bundles. If you have the CS6 video bundle or the Master Collection, then it included Audition. I'm confused why you wouldn't have Audition if you have a CC subscription.

FWIW - neither X nor PProCC works with the RX Connect conduit. If you want to process an audio file in the suite, you have to open it from the Finder into the standalone application. The individual plug-ins do work with these hosts and operate in real-time. They are not real-time in the standalone application.

https://www.izotope.com/support/kb/index.php/kb/article/644-rx_connect_faq

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:27:28 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Are saying you only got a single-app subscription to PremierePro CC?"

Yep. :-)

[Oliver Peters] "That doesn't make a lot of financial sense compared with a standard CC subscription"

Well, since I don't currently need to use any of the other stuff, I figured it's not worth the $360 a year. That $$ has paid for stuff I use more frequently in X. I can always upgrade if I need to...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:31:08 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Well, since I don't currently need to use any of the other stuff, I figured it's not worth the $360 a year."

Hmm... I presume that means you are using older versions of Photoshop and After Effects. Both are essential in the work I do. Although you can definitely get by with older copies of Photoshop, that doesn't seem to be the case with AE. That's an app where I have to do a lot of exchange and most of the diehard AE guys are current, which means you can't interchange older projects more than a couple of versions old.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:40:13 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Hmm... I presume that means you are using older versions of Photoshop and After Effects. Both are essential in the work I do."

When I use them, yes. CS6. Full disclosure though, we have a dedicated Graphics dept/guy who of, course, does have the latest greatest. In X/Motion, I can pretty much whip up whatever I need which may or may not get redone in AE etc. . In Pr and (still) FCP 7, I just temp stuff and replace it with what he does. Lazy? You bet! ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 11:41:19 pm

Audition does some pretty amazing things. If you work a lot with audio you owe it to yourself to check it out.

Tim


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tony west
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 2:01:23 pm

Yes, I just want to clarify to Herb because he asked a very specific question.

[Herb Sevush] "Does RX4 come up as a plug-in within X?"

I just wanted to make sure he knew that it does.



This is important because it saves time not having to leave the program and in many cases you are working with the interface right inside X

I like being able to do that.

You don't have all of it's power inside X but a lot of it, and as Charlie said you can work outside of it quick.



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Herb Sevush
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 25, 2015 at 11:06:09 pm

[tony west] " I just want to clarify to Herb because he asked a very specific question."

Well, to make it more specific, since you can't access the spectral analyzer function from within X what exactly is the process - I'm imagining it's open RX4, then load the video clip with the audio your working on, then find the part that needs fixing, make the fix, save the changed file, then reopen in X and the change is made. Is that it?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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tony west
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 1:45:23 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Well, to make it more specific, since you can't access the spectral analyzer function from within X what exactly is the process - I'm imagining it's open RX4, then load the video clip with the audio your working on, then find the part that needs fixing, make the fix, save the changed file, then reopen in X and the change is made. Is that it?
"


Yes that's pretty much it. I like to stay organized with all these clips I have in my doc so I have a folder called RX Work that I export it to out of X. When I'm done in RX I export that to that folder with it's name "fixed". Bring that back into X tagged.

It's not a big deal to me because I remember how I used to do it. Trying find all these little noises and replace them with room tone if somebody did their job in the field and gave it to me.

The majority of the work I do with RX is cleaning up background noise and I use that filter right in X, which you could do with Prp also, but if you had audition I don't think you would need to buy RX. The Declipper filter is amazing also that I use right in X.

For me Herb, I want the power of audition but I want to use X so RX gives me what I'm looking for.


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Herb Sevush
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 2:33:26 pm

[tony west] "For me Herb, I want the power of audition but I want to use X so RX gives me what I'm looking for."

I totally get it. Before switching to Adobe I used Soundforge to clean up my audio and they have many of the Izotope filters bundled in and the quality is great. I'm still tempted to buy RX4 Advanced to use ambience match, the room tone filter, de-reverb and the leveler within Audition - tempting despite the price.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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tony west
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 3:36:50 pm

[Herb Sevush] " tempting despite the price"

I hear you. It is not a cheap program : )

I started with lite RX2 and lite RX3 and when 4 Advance came up they offered a discount to if you had 3 to upgrade. It still was more jack than I wanted to pay but I figured for what I was getting I couldn't justify not having it. I will be doing my taxes next month and will be bringing in that reciept : )


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David Mathis
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 9:20:52 pm

Well, several things but X has this one advantage: No track Tetris

Charlie, thought you might enjoy this one. ;-)







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Richard Herd
Re: PPro offers what BIG advantages over X?
on Jan 26, 2015 at 11:28:03 pm

*Audio. -- the in-app mixer and effects are excellent.
*Audio. -- sending to Audition to "fix it in post" is pure magic.
*Audio. -- OMF and AAF.

*After Effects Dynamic Link is sweet!
*Integration with Photoshop and Illustrator.

(Please note the XML from 7 into PP has some issues you cannot foresee. It gets the cuts pretty well, but that's a simple EDL. The troublesome part has been translating workflow styles, for example, an editor used tiff mattes to make an editing effect (blinking falling thing transition), and when the XML came over the entire effect had to be rebuilt, and that meant dynamic link into After Effects, where I think the effect looked better, but, for the purposes here, the XML couldn't do what it couldn't do, and although deadline was made, there was some extra time involved.)


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