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OT - Hard drive failure rates.

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Herb Sevush
OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 22, 2015 at 2:03:55 pm

Backblaze is an on-linebackup service. This is a blog about the drives they use for storage and their respective failure rates. If you want the summary - don't buy Seagate Barracuda 3TB drives.

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/best-hard-drive/

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 22, 2015 at 4:48:01 pm

Seagate was my first drive failure, years ago in an iMac. Have been Seagate-averse since ... But they keep buying companies, like LaCie, making the question of all manufacturers: what's in the box? Hitachi? Western? IBM?

Doug D


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Herb Sevush
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 22, 2015 at 4:58:19 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "Seagate was my first drive failure, years ago in an iMac. Have been Seagate-averse since"

Over the last 20 years Seagate has been very up and down. There have been long stretches when I thought they were the best, and recently longer stretches where they have been very problematic. In the last few years Hitachi has had the best reputation and I found it interesting that Backblaze's findings confirmed that notion. Also interesting is that in general the 4tb drives seem to be more stable than the 3 TB drives industry wide.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 22, 2015 at 5:35:44 pm

Right, my understanding has been Hitachi is currently best. Even so, I was using G-Tech drives, who were bought by Hitachi, and then the whole operation apparently was bought by Western Digital ... and the G-Drives were using Hitachi hardware. And I STILL got reports, from people like Philip Hodgetts, that cautioned against G-Tech and recommended Cal Digit. Do you know what manufacturer Cal Digit uses? Maybe it is really just "drive roulette" regardless of spinning hardware.

Doug D


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Andrew Kimery
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 22, 2015 at 8:58:15 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] " Do you know what manufacturer Cal Digit uses? Maybe it is really just "drive roulette" regardless of spinning hardware."

The enclosure can also be the culprit for an external unit failing. I remember reading that many times when a LaCie drive died back in the day it was actually the electronics in the enclosure (or the power supply) that failed, not the drive itself.

A couple years ago I had a very bad run with G-Tech drives as well. I'd say 25% of our external drives failed and it was a variety of units so it wasn't like we got a bad batch.


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Richard Herd
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 22, 2015 at 9:18:06 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "LaCie drive died back in the day it was actually the electronics in the enclosure (or the power supply) that failed, not the drive itself."

Yep. I was a victim.


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David Lawrence
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 23, 2015 at 1:16:39 am

[Richard Herd] "Yep. I was a victim."

Me too. Three times. I'll never buy LaCie again for that reason.

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David Mathis
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 23, 2015 at 2:53:24 am

I had a LaCie bite the dust on me, so no go for now. I have good luck with G Technology thus far. A bit noisy but reliable.


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TImothy Auld
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 22, 2015 at 6:46:01 pm

Sadly, I learned that before you posted this.

Tim


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Rich Rubasch
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 23, 2015 at 3:15:01 am

The great tech guys at Softraid said they also confirm that the 3 TB Seagate Barracuda drives are not to be trusted. However the 1TB Barrracuda is one of their favorites. They rated the Seagate Constallation at the very top of the list and they are the only drives we use in our MacPro Raids...four 2 TB Constellation drives striped together.

Very fast.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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David Cherniack
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 23, 2015 at 3:47:53 am

As a somewaht sane person I use enterprise class drives. I have 10 3TB Seagate Constellation ES drives in a Raid 6. So far not a burp from the Areca controller.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 23, 2015 at 5:44:46 am

LaCie definitely had some power supply problems and was replacing a lot of the D2 external PS units. I've never had a problem, though I have several, some 250 and 500GB that must be 5 years old. Now used just for backup though. Get mostly drives through OWC, Hitachi, now HGST and Toshiba. Some HGST failures.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.1.4, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.5, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1 TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM GTX-285 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD


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Noah Kadner
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 23, 2015 at 3:15:23 pm

Lately Lacie, Promise and GTech have all been pretty solid for me.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


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Walter Soyka
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 24, 2015 at 2:50:50 pm

I see a few people in this thread mentioning what brands have failed on them in that past, which they now avoid. Every hard drive you buy will fail eventually; it's a matter of when, not if. In the long term, you won't have any storage vendors left to buy from.

Also, any vendor could be susceptible to the kinds of component batch failures we see affecting Seagate and LaCie in the future . Buying from someone else means fighting battles already won -- or lost! -- and is no guarantee on future performance.

Assume your primary storage will fail and have a backup strategy in place to mitigate your risk.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Herb Sevush
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:06:04 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Assume your primary storage will fail and have a backup strategy in place to mitigate your risk."

While that is always the correct strategy, I linked that study because it is not personal or anecdotal. Backblaze, as you know because you tipped me off to them, buys hundreds and thousands of drives per year and is unique in that they are willing to share their experience in evaluating them. And while it's true that "best" is a fluid sobriquet, when you see the stats on Seagate's 3TB barracuda drives, it's simply prudent to avoid them and helpful to mention this to others. I also think that the knowledge of the industry wide superiority of 4tb drives to 3tb drives is worth noting. Of course this won't help you too much if you buy a Hitachi drive and it goes down on you, as they sometimes do, but then again 10 years ago I bought a Subaru that was a lemon -- someone has to be in that 1%.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Walter Soyka
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:24:36 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I linked that study because it is not personal or anecdotal. Backblaze, as you know because you tipped me off to them, buys hundreds and thousands of drives per year and is unique in that they are willing to share their experience in evaluating them."

Absolutely, and I'm all for empiricism. But these studies are necessarily backwards-looking. Like finance, past results are no guarantee of future performance.

It's easy to know what drives you should have bought last year, but harder to know what new drives you should buy next. I don't know enough Inside Baseball on storage to know when manufacturers change their process, or components, or the firmware on their drives, or any other factor that may reverse the findings here. Hitachi (via IBM) is a darling today, but they used to make a drive called the DeskStar that was so bad it was called the DeathStar. Who did we flock to then? Seagate.

That said, I'm with you. I'm buying Hitachi drives and Samsung SSDs now myself, based in large part on studies like this. But eventually, something will change in manufacturing, empiricism will become superstition, and I'll have bought the wrong drives. (See also: my collection of 1.5TB Seagates.)

No matter what brand you buy, you should treat it like a Seagate drive in a LaCie enclosure designed by Ford Pinto engineers with a power supply that Jaguar built in the 80s.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Herb Sevush
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:53:45 pm

[Walter Soyka] "No matter what brand you buy, you should treat it like a Seagate drive in a LaCie enclosure designed by Ford Pinto engineers with a power supply that Jaguar built in the 80s."

Words to live by. Nice.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bob Zelin
Re: OT - Hard drive failure rates.
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:08:48 pm

this was an interesting article, and an interesting thread. My have used Seagate my entire career (because that's what AVID used since day 1, until things changed). In 2009, I built two large drive arrays with Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM drives, and had non stop failures. We blamed everyone in the food chain (because how could Seagate be bad) and ATTO, JMR, and Small Tree all said DONT USE SEAGATE DRIVES.

We switched to Hitachi (HGST) and never looked back. I have since occationally used Seagate drives, with usually poor performance. Some people, like Tim Jones from Tolis Group swears by the Seagate Constallations and says that they are currently the best drive.

And one name that is not mentioned here is Toshiba, who makes cheap drives, that I have not personally seen fail, but certainly gets bad reviews.

When people have their comments about Cal Digit, Lacie, G-Tech, etc. these companies DO NOT MAKE DISK DRIVES. They put drives from Seagate, WD and HGST into their boxes. People can say "well, I buy Cal Digit, and I trust them" - they have NO IDEA of what drives are in these boxes, and its usually the drive (and occationaly the power supply) that fail, not the metal enclosure. For the record - HGST owns G-Tech (which is all owned by WD).

And with all of that said, drives suck, and they all fail. Particularly in hi speed, hi performance RAID arrays. People that do RAID 0 are just crazy. That's when I laugh when I see performance specs of thunderbolt RAID arrays doing 1300 MB/sec - you can only do this at RAID 0, and you just have an accident waiting to happen. You must use RAID protection, and you must backup your data, because disaster WILL happen - it's only a matter of time. People say "well, which are the good drives" - there are no good drives, just ones that are a little more reliable than the others, but they will all fail. I use HGST Deskstar NA, HGST Ultrastar Enterprise, WD RE series, and WD RED NAS drives, depending on cost and application. But everyone one of these drives (including HGST Ultrastar enterprise drives) fail - if you don't back up, it's your own damn fault.

Bob zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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