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Oliver Peters
Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 2:08:36 am

Is the embrace of MXF, Apple's acknowledgment that professional use of QT is dead? Or at least them getting in front of the curve?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 6:12:20 am

Not sure about that. My delivery to Discovery is still Quicktime. DNxHD 145 QT, but QT nuntheless. Several cameras shoot QT. QT is still a deliverable to end users in some cases...for playback on iPhones or iPads.

Do you mean professional grade codecs? Intermediates for editing? Camera masters?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John Rofrano
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 11:58:52 am

Lots of cameras shoot MXF. The Sony HDCAM SR and XDCAM EX line comes to mind. I'm thrilled because I collaborate with shooters that have cameras like the Sony EX3 and now I can import their MXF files natively. So this is a big improvement for my workflow.

Also because editors with PC's can't create ProRes files, some post houses have been accepting XDCAM HD422 50Mbps MXF files instead.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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tony west
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 3:56:15 pm

[John Rofrano] " I'm thrilled because I collaborate with shooters that have cameras like the Sony EX3 and now I can import their MXF files natively."

John have you tried this yet with the new update.

I have tried it with a EX1R and an F3, and couldn't import either one natively. I just get a green screen. I also down loaded the Pro format app 2.0 and no go.

Am I missing another step?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 4:43:03 pm

[tony west] "I have tried it with a EX1R and an F3, and couldn't import either one natively. I just get a green screen. I also down loaded the Pro format app 2.0 and no go.
"


You may have to uninstall the Sony PDKZ-LT2 plugin.

It should be in Hard Drive > Library > Application Support > ProApps > Plugins

This is the main Library folder, not the user Folder.

Jeremy


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tony west
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 4:53:57 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "You may have to uninstall the Sony PDKZ-LT2 plugin."

Thanks Jeremy but I'm not finding that plugin.

Is that what you did to get yours going?

I'm also puzzled. The files off the F3 don't seem to be .MXF files anyway.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 5:06:14 pm

Also check the Hard Drive > Library > Application Support > ProApps > MIO > RAD folder

[tony west] "Is that what you did to get yours going?"

I have used MXF4mac (which is probably what the MXF findings in FCPX are today) for a long time.

Before they were certified for FCPX, I had to install the Sony PlugIn to use for F55 and F5 XAVC.

Once MXF4mac was ready for FCPX, I had to uninstall.

That was a long winded way of saying "yes"!

[tony west] "The files off the F3 don't seem to be .MXF files anyway."

If the files aren't MXF, then this won't help! ;)

Files form F55 look like this:



The MXF files are in the XDRoot > Clip folder.


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tony west
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 5:22:18 pm

I got you. The files from the F3 look like this of the camera

So that could be the what's up



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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 6:04:59 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Dec 5, 2014 at 6:07:15 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "You may have to uninstall the Sony PDKZ-LT2 plugin."

Yes. Even if FCP now understands the MXF wrapper, that doesn't mean it understands every codec contained within. The same goes for QT for that matter. And you will have been able to import from said camera BEFORE the update also btw, assuming you had the plugin installed. That part is not new. Only now they (I assume) don't need to be rewrapped as QT.

But come to think of it, the F3 doesn't even record in MXF! You merely need to install the plugin.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 6:12:34 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Yes. Even if FCP now understands the MXF wrapper, that doesn't mean it understands the codec contained within."

Ture, but XAVC is available to FCPX as is XDCAm422 and others. No extra codecs needed there.

[Robin S. Kurz] "Only now they (I assume) don't need to be rewrapped as QT.
"


That's right. You can import MXF files just like they were .mov. You can also consolidate, and the files remain MXF, and don't wrap to .mov. You can still optimize (depending on format) and Proxy as well.

Basically, MXF works like .mov, they only caveat being P2. P2 is still funky due to the op-atom mxf structure. It appears FCPX's P2 Importer over rules the MXF files of P2 and rewraps to mov to join audio and video. Avid will probably have issues as well, as the op-atom files will not be joined (audio and video are separate). If the files are already op1a, FCPX will handle them just fine.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 1:21:19 pm

"Do you mean professional grade codecs? Intermediates for editing? Camera masters?"

I'm talking about professional acquisition post and delivery. I think ProRes will be around and QT as a wrapper will hang around as well. But pro users have long lamented about QT gamma shifts and are eager to move to something else. MXF is the most acceptable wrapper outside of MOV and is widely used. With MXF, you now have native interoperability of media files among Apple, Avid and Adobe without rewrapping. Probably Autodesk and Quantel, too. As a test, last night, I could easily import DNxHD MXF files from an Avid MediaFiles folder directly into X.

I think once this starts to resonate with facilities and broadcasters, it's going to be a very big deal. If you look at camera vendors, like ARRI for example, there's no reason not to offer MXF-wrapped ProRes files now. In the end, moving away from QT has a lot of advantages for pro users.

Of course, as we all know, standards are often ignored and each broadcaster has their own particular specs. It's nearly impossible to create one distribution file and have it be valid for a range of broadcast outlets. Heck, I just did a set of spots and had to create 8 variations to cover all the local station specs. And that was still "generic".

So, I applaud this move as hopefully one that will put some sanity back into the post environment.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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John Heagy
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 4:43:06 pm

[Oliver Peters] "there's no reason not to offer MXF-wrapped ProRes files now"

Apple would have to bless it first like they did for Avid.

John


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 4:47:57 pm

[John Heagy] "Apple would have to bless it first like they did for Avid.
"


Don't you think this will be an easier process now?

If the codec is blessed, does the wrapper have to be blessed, too?

MXF is fairly open source.


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John Heagy
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 5:12:02 pm

I wouldn't think the current ProRes QT codec could write into an mxf wrapper.

Avid uses a separate Apple supplied and licensed ProRes library to roll their own mxf. Same a EVS, Vantage, and many of the PC based asset managers that support ProRes encode.

It is possible the new Pro Codec release supports this or lays the framework. I'll believe it when I see it.


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James Ewart
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 5:44:56 pm

I'm not up there with you guys.

Isn't Pro Res a Quicktime codec. What does it mean when you sayMXF wrapped Pro Res please?

Thanks.

James


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 6:29:21 pm

[James Ewart] "Isn't Pro Res a Quicktime codec. What does it mean when you sayMXF wrapped Pro Res please?"

This is over simplified but:

ProRes is a codec, yes. On a Mac, you can use Quicktime software to encode and decode ProRes codecs in a .mov wrapper. Although, many companies have been encoding ProRes in other software/hardware combos other than Quicktime, for a while.

Quicktime (or really QTKit) was also a rather robust API, separate from Quicktime the application, and is now being supplanted by AVFoundation. QTKit and AVFoundation are Mac only APIs.

MXF is a container. Within it, you can hold audio, video, and metadata in various formats. ProRes is a codec that can be used within the MXF container. Other codecs can be used within the wrappers as well. Codecs and wrappers are usually separate from each other (you can use different codecs in different wrappers, and vice versa). Although some wrappers (like mp4) define a type of codec in the specs of the format.

There's a lot more detail around the web, but here's MXF wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_Exchange_Format

QT wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTime


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Norbert Varga
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 11:51:57 am

Hi Oliver,
"As a test, last night, I could easily import DNxHD MXF files from an Avid MediaFiles folder directly into X."
How did you do this?
Need AVID Codecs LE? Or something? I use the FCPX in private, and i work AVID MC in my workplace.
Do you have any workflow?
Thx.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 4:09:51 pm

[Norbert Varga] "Need AVID Codecs LE? Or something? I use the FCPX in private, and i work AVID MC in my workplace.

I haven't tested that far, but yes, I would presume you need to install DNxHD codecs. FCP X IDs the codec as VC-3, which is the official SMPTE standard for DNxHD. I'm not sure if FCP X installs a component as part of the Pro codecs package. If you have Avid installed or have Premiere Pro CC installed, then you have DNxHD codecs on your system. Otherwise, I supposed you'd have to download and install the LE codecs package (free).

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 6:01:38 pm

[Oliver Peters] "… or have Premiere Pro CC installed, then you have DNxHD codecs on your system."

I respectfully disagree. I've had PPro CC for a while, but when I received some DNxHD files the other day I first had to manually install the LE codecs before X would import them.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Oliver Peters
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 7:03:36 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "I've had PPro CC for a while, but when I received some DNxHD files the other day I first had to manually install the LE codecs before X would import them."

It might be an OP Atom versus OP1A issue. I work on a number of machines with only PProCC (no FCP or Avid at all) and they natively work with DNxHD.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Norbert Varga
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 5, 2014 at 8:32:08 pm

Thx. Oliver! I'am going to test this.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 12:54:10 pm

.mov will be around, but yes, this is a big step for Apple. It seems to have taken a really long time.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 1:36:53 pm

One thing this does is improve the interoperability between FCP X and broadcast/post SANs and servers, such as Avid Isis.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 1:45:14 pm

5 minute overview from Ripple:







Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Brett Sherman
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 1:55:17 pm

Are there significant advantages to copying MXF directly off the camera card versus rewrapping to Quicktime? I'm not sure why I would do this.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 2:24:02 pm

[Brett Sherman] "Are there significant advantages to copying MXF directly off the camera card versus rewrapping to Quicktime? I'm not sure why I would do this."

For me, it's one less set of media to archive.

I have been using MXF media in fcp7 and X for s long time. With direct MXF import, I don't have to archive both the MXF and QT rewraps, instead I just archive the MXF. This means if I have a shoot with 2TBs of shoot media, I can archive that 2 TBs, and not 4TBs.

This is separate from backup. You should slways have backups. The nice thing about it is, should something go wrong on your main storage system, you can simply reimport the MXF files directly from backup instead of waiting for all of them to rewrap again. I am curious to see what is going to happen with X's consolidation commands and MXF.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 3, 2014 at 2:14:46 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Dec 3, 2014 at 6:30:20 pm

[Oliver Peters] " thing this does is improve the interoperability between FCP X and broadcast/post SANs and servers, such as Avid Isis.
"


Absolutely. This finally legitimizes MXF on the Apple platform. MXF4Mac has worked for a really long time, and worked really well. But now that AV Foundation seems to be in full swing, and there's less and less use of QtKit, this is a decent time for Apple to finally add this capability directly to the NLE.

This also opens up a lot of possibility to other codecs for import, delivery, and cross-platform use. There will be more 10bit codecs other than ProRes. It's a pretty big signal from Apple.

.mov will become just another wrapper.

Now it's time to move on to shared storage! :-D

PS No, Scott. It's not time to change the name of the forum. ;)


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Oliver Peters
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 4, 2014 at 2:25:00 am

Interesting by-product of this update:

http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/apple_adds_mxf_support_to_quickt...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 4, 2014 at 3:06:35 am

I find MXF4mac Player To be a really good player. It's free: http://www.hamburgpromedia.com

It allows you to view different TC, frame number, or overall time, you can turn on and off audio channels (or even solo them), has traditional JKL playback, and has some purchasable add-ons, including DCP playback, if you need it.

It doesn't open every type of file, but mov, MXF, mp4, and others. It will even show you missing codecs.

Jeremy


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 4, 2014 at 7:35:40 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I find MXF4mac Player To be a really good player."

Um... where do you think their import/export extensions went after disappearing so ominously a while back? ;)

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Fcp X 10.1.4
on Dec 4, 2014 at 7:48:44 pm

I know exactly where they are.

But the player is still available (and free).


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