FORUMS: list search recent posts

Before I buy.....

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Don Walker
Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 12:21:43 am

True or False: the old rule of thumb, that one should never edit with your media on your system drive, is no longer valid, with a 2013 MacBook Pro with Pcie flash storage.

The reason I am asking; I am looking into replacing my home machine (2008 MacPro), and thinking that buying a tricked out MBP, would be the way to go. The most intensive editing I do is 6 angle 720p 60 streams, and I mostly do that at work on a souped up iMac with a RAID attached. But If I wanted to take a project home, I could do a Thunderbolt transfer to my laptop, and basically edit anywhere.
I would of course get the 1TB option on the storage.

Any misconceptions here?

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 1:11:35 am

I say think different on storage. The problems that made it impossible to edit from system storage in the past (throughput, latency, capacity, fragmentation, bus speed) are a non-issue with solid state storage today.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 1:12:13 am

You'll be amazed with the rMBP performance. It's quite good. You should be Ok with that plan as long as it's not your only long term solution (which of course it isn't).

I often work on my laptop system drive with a copy of the library and media, and then transfer the library back to the desktop in the office and relink. It works great.


Return to posts index


Noah Kadner
Re: Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 2:26:11 am

I'd also have a look at the Retina iMac before pulling the trigger, unless easy portability is essential of course. The GPU power on the CTO RiMac is a considerably more robust for FCPX usage than the RMBP. It's more expensive yes, but not compared to the new Mac Pros.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
Call Box Training


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 4:45:19 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Nov 30, 2014 at 4:46:34 pm

I personally still preach the "never edit from the boot disk" mantra daily. For me it also never had anything to do with access speeds or the likes, at least not first and foremost. But rather due to the fact that if IT goes, it ALL goes. IOW if your OS or the entire disk goes south, then you're not getting to your project any time soon either. If you have it on an external "media disk", then all you need is another machine and you're off. Aside from the fact that you're in no need of ANY copying/transferring if you, as you describe, move to another machine.

Even your 6 angle multicam should be more than doable on a decent USB 3 disk when using proxy, which you'll most likely need to work with either way. They are cheap and very portable. I for one recently edited a 4 angle 5K RED MC (as proxy of course) on an rMBP with only a few negligible hitches, coming from an external 2.5" USB3 disk. So regardless of what you end up buying, you'll want to go with external storage no matter what IMHO. And I'd also go with the iMac if portability isn't a complete must.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 8:58:04 pm

Unless I'm reading this wrong, he already has an iMac and raid. This system would serve as a duplicate system, not the primary, in which case editing on the drive is easy and convenient. I do it often.

It would also be a highly capable mobile system if needed.


Return to posts index


Michael Gissing
Re: Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 11:01:35 pm

If you need to take your project elsewhere for grading etc then having everything on the external is still the best approach. Otherwise SSD drives make the old mantra less important.

I still encourage editors to do it because we are working on a colaborative workflow and their media needs to get to me via and external.


Return to posts index

Don Walker
Re: Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 11:12:06 pm

I work on a digital island. The only collaboration is between the audio guy and myself, and he usually sends wave files to me.
Thank you everybody for your responses. There will be of course, be other drives attached to this rMBP. I can't hold all my graphics on this computer for example. But for taking a self contained project home to work on, it seems like a great work flow.
Again thanks for your responses.

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Before I buy.....
on Nov 30, 2014 at 11:15:48 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Nov 30, 2014 at 11:16:04 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "But rather due to the fact that if IT goes, it ALL goes."

Same can be said for your USB 3 drive. It should have a backup, period. Editing from your main SSD doesn't put you in any more danger other than having a backup.

Frankly, that reason is rather ludicrous. That's like saying that you should have a different car for when you drive to work and when you drive for pleasure, because if your work car gets totaled, then you would be in it.


Return to posts index


Robin S. Kurz
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 12:16:22 pm

Actually, the only thing ludicrous is that utterly nonsensical analogy. Maybe re-read (further) and brush up on the reading comprehension part?

FWIW, SSDs also have limited read/write cycles, even if they are high in number, so using it for everything all the time would also put additional strain on that limit. And yes, I've stored proxies of entire projects locally on my rMBP for remote editing a few times also and it's a very cool thing to be able to do. It's just not something I'd want to be doing all the time, which I may have misinterpreted to having been part of the original question.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 2:29:12 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "FWIW, SSDs also have limited read/write cycles, even if they are high in number, so using it for everything all the time would also put additional strain on that limit."

The practical erase limit for current-generation solid state technology is much, much higher than you think. High enough that I don't think it's really worth worrying about. Your solid state storage is still likely to be functional even after the computer has been retired.

Check out the SSD Endurance Experiment [link].

All the drives they tested passed 500 TB of re-writes. In practical terms, that's like writing 140 GB to your SSD every single day for 10 years. A bunch of the drives failed between 500 TB and 1 PB of rewriting, but some of the drives have passed 1.5 PB (not a typo) of re-writes. That's like 430 GB of data written every day for 10 years.

Of course all SSDs will fail someday, but so too will mechanical drives. Back up your data and it'll be ok.

On the subject of backups and laptops and system drives, I find that a great many people overlook the importance of bootable backups. A bootable backup of your system drive means you can up and running in minutes, not hours, of a system drive failure. If you don't have a current bootable backup, today's a great day to make one! This concludes our public service announcement.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 3:17:35 pm

[Walter Soyka] "The practical erase limit for current-generation solid state technology is much, much higher than you think."

Like I said, the number is very high, yes. It was only a small foot-note concerning the "spread out the risk" principle I was alluding to. Be it on SSDs or spinning disks or tapes or whatever.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index


Walter Soyka
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 3:33:14 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Like I said, the number is very high, yes. It was only a small foot-note concerning the "spread out the risk" principle I was alluding to. Be it on SSDs or spinning disks or tapes or whatever."

Clearly I misunderstood. While addressing erase cycles, you said that editing off the SSD wasn't "something [you'd] want to be doing all the time" so I assumed you were concerned about rapidly wearing out your drives. I thought it was important to put your concern about the rewrite limit in current empirical context. It is really amazing how much solid state storage has progressed in the last couple of years.

NAND is the FCP X of storage. Fast, powerful, misunderstood.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 4:09:44 pm

[Walter Soyka] "you said that editing off the SSD wasn't "something [you'd] want to be doing all the time" "

In a "for peace of mind" sense, yes. Whether technically or otherwise rational or not. ;)

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 8:45:50 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "In a "for peace of mind" sense, yes. Whether technically or otherwise rational or not. ;) "

Lots of people do irrational things for piece of mind. I prefer not to be one of them, or let people spread FUD for their own hangups.


Return to posts index


Jeremy Garchow
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 8:13:13 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] " It was only a small foot-note concerning the "spread out the risk" principle I was alluding to."

More like a FUD-note.

I'll see myself out.


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 8:24:25 pm

[Walter Soyka] "If you don't have a current bootable backup, today's a great day to make one! "

I don't. I have some time. Now, how do I do this (a link you suggest)?

Thanks!


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 8:31:30 pm

Download a program like Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper. Plug in an empty external and clone your system drive to the external drive. It's pretty easy, and the programs have good help menus to guide you through it.

When the clone is finished you try to boot from the external. If your system boots up off of that drive you're good to go.

I clone my system drive every few months or prior to any massive changes. It's a great habit to get into.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 8:34:18 pm

I use Carbon Copy Cloner for my Macs and Acronis True Image for my PCs.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 8:46:50 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I use Carbon Copy Cloner for my Macs and Acronis True Image for my PCs."

Both of which I recommend for each platform too.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 8:49:20 pm

Another vote for CCC.


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: Before I buy.....
on Dec 1, 2014 at 9:17:26 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I use Carbon Copy Cloner for my Macs and Acronis True Image for my PCs."

+1 for Acronis True Image



Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: Before I buy.....(Thanks all!)
on Dec 1, 2014 at 9:56:47 pm

Thanks!


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]