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Oliver Peters
Speech to text
on Nov 22, 2014 at 10:11:25 pm

Adobe pulls it from Premiere.

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2014/11/useful-speech-to-text-is-hard/

I wonder if this precedes a deal between Adobe and Nexidia. Or maybe one between Apple and Nexidia. It would be nice to have something akin to an Apple-ized version of PhraseFind or ScriptSync inside FCP X.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 23, 2014 at 1:56:40 am

What would you use speech to text for in FCP X? Just to search for dialog in media? It would be great for automatically closed captioning but FCP X doesn't support closed captions. I'm just not sure what the benefit of having speech to text might be.

I would be much happier if FCP X could simply create, display, and export Closed Captions like Sony Vegas Pro can. I'd be happy to supply the text.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Oliver Peters
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 23, 2014 at 2:40:58 am

[John Rofrano] "What would you use speech to text for in FCP X?"

Transcript creation, closed captioning, etc.

[John Rofrano] "Just to search for dialog in media?"

Yes, that, too, except the Adobe version couldn't do that. The Nexidia/Avid/SoundBite version can. Opposite technologies.

Documentary editors use that function in Avid all the time (PhraseFind). For example, when you are creating "frankenbites" and need to find the same word ending a sentence with the proper inflection. Do a dialogue search for other instances of the desired word and if you find the right variation, cut it in as an audio-only edit.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 23, 2014 at 2:47:37 am

[Oliver Peters] " For example, when you are creating "frankenbites" and need to find the same word ending a sentence with the proper inflection."

I use Soundbite for that... works pretty well if you have a clean dialog track. It sort of works with X. I'd like to see that, as well as transcription built into X. The OS has the most of the parts to make it happen. A speech extension? I wish I was more of a coder nerd, i bet it's do-able...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 23, 2014 at 10:53:41 am

[Oliver Peters] "Transcript creation, closed captioning, etc."
How do you do Closed Captioning in FCP X? I haven't figure out how to do that yet.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Oliver Peters
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 23, 2014 at 2:26:32 pm

[John Rofrano] "How do you do Closed Captioning in FCP X? I haven't figure out how to do that yet."

I haven't either. My answer was merely a hypothetical about something Apple could add.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 23, 2014 at 5:10:27 pm

[Oliver Peters] "My answer was merely a hypothetical about something Apple could add."
Ah, yes. Hypothetically it would be awesome. I'd be happy with just importing a text file as closed captions but I could see Apple leapfrogging and going directly to Speech to Closed Captions. That would be sweet.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Bill Davis
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 23, 2014 at 8:32:23 pm

Closed captioning is supported via Compressor.

Search Compressor and Closed Caption and you'll find notations.

It supports the EIA-608 ATSC standards and the .scc file system for export.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 24, 2014 at 1:51:35 am

[Bill Davis] "Closed captioning is supported via Compressor. "
It looks like that just muxes an already created caption file. I'm asking how do you create the caption file in the first place? My definition of "Supports Closed Captions" is the ability to create closed captions while watching your video so that you can see the captions and adjust their timing.

Sony Vegas Pro can do all this and as far as I can tell FCP X has nothing. I wrote a plug-in for Vegas Pro called VASST Caption Assistant. I'd love to write one for FCP X but FCP X doesn't seem to have any way to add captions. (oh... did I mention I'm a software developer too) ;-)

Here is what I created for Vegas Pro:






That's what I want to be able to do in FCP X.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Lance Bachelder
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 24, 2014 at 8:30:27 am

Nice video John - the last feature I cut in Vegas was in 10 and I wish I had known about your ap. Hopefully you'll be able to do something like someday for FCPX.

I'm really loving FCPX much more than Vegas but do miss a lot of useful features in Vegas that don't exist in any other NLE. I only wish it hadn't become so buggy or I still might be using it regularly.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 24, 2014 at 12:11:05 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Nice video John - the last feature I cut in Vegas was in 10 and I wish I had known about your ap. Hopefully you'll be able to do something like someday for FCPX."
Thanks Lance. Yea, thats why I was looking into it. I'm trying to figure out what plug-ins I can write for FCPX.
[Lance Bachelder] "I'm really loving FCPX much more than Vegas but do miss a lot of useful features in Vegas that don't exist in any other NLE. I only wish it hadn't become so buggy or I still might be using it regularly."
It is sad that Vegas got so unstable. I'm getting fairly proficient at FCPX as well now although I have a long way to go. ;-)

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Craig Seeman
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 24, 2014 at 2:39:35 pm

There's MacCaption.
http://www.telestream.net/captioning/overview.htm



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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 25, 2014 at 12:39:36 pm

[Craig Seeman] "There's MacCaption."
Wow $1,095! I'm definitely not charging enough for my Caption Assistant plug-in! lol :-D

Thanks for the pointer. When we were looking for post houses to do the captioning they wanted $300 per episode so $1,095 pales in comparison to a 13 episode season at $300 each ($3,900) so I can see how they can charge that much. I'll check it out.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Craig Seeman
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 25, 2014 at 3:57:20 pm

BTW Telestream MacCaption has specific info for FCPX workflow in their KBase. It mentions both file based and tape based workflows.

http://telestream.force.com/kb/articles/Knowledge_Article/Closed-Captioning...



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Bill Davis
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 24, 2014 at 8:52:48 am

Sorry, then. I misunderstood. I've never tried to transcribe my own work. Seems like a massive waste of time since the services have better transcriptironists and with ADA compliance at stake, theres typically a budget for captioning when required. I send the video out. They send the .scc file back to sync with the timing in place. That's all I've ever needed to do.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 24, 2014 at 12:03:58 pm

[Bill Davis] "...theres typically a budget for captioning when required."
I guess if you work at a big post house there is... but if you are an independent delivering broadcast content to cable stations, captioning is always required and there is no way to do it yourself in FCPX. The show in that I was finishing editor for in that video (Painting & Travel) is shot entirely by Roger and his wife traveling the country just the two of them. Roger has no budget and you can't delivery anything to PBS without captioning so Vegas Pro and my Caption Assistant plug-in allows him to do it himself. Roger actually helped me develop the tool. I was looking to do something similar for FCPX and was shocked it had no provision for captioning because in the US, it's required now for everything going to broadcast.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Andy Field
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 24, 2014 at 10:34:26 pm

We use the Text to Speech all the time - if someone speaks clear standard English it does a fairly good job - accented...not as good. The Boris Soundbite is great if you've already transcribed something and need to find it fast as it's a phrase find program - it looks for sound patterns and matches them..but doesn't actually transcribe anything.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Michael Phillips
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 25, 2014 at 6:44:01 pm

SoundBite, like PhrseFind does not require a transcript to be done. You may be confusing that with ScriptSync. SounBite and PhraseFind eliminate the need for transcripts as it can do ad-hoc searching for words and phrases directly on the media itself. In many cases, it can save the cost of doing a transcript in the first place.

Adobe's Speech to text did add a feature that "helped" it by providing it is script to start with, but then again, that sort of defeated the whole purpose of a speech to text engine in the first place.


Michael


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Andy Field
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 25, 2014 at 8:35:34 pm

Sound bite doesn't need a transcript but without one how do you know the phrase or words to ask it to find


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Oliver Peters
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 25, 2014 at 9:09:26 pm

[Andy Field] "Sound bite doesn't need a transcript but without one how do you know the phrase or words to ask it to find"

SoundBite, like PhraseFind indexes audio based on phonetics. You type in a word - regardless of spelling, as long as the pronunciation would match - and it will find the matches. You can dial in accuracy tolerance. It will display as many "hits" as it can locate within the indexed clips. Let's say you need to find a certain word in an interview where the word ends the sentence. Type in the word and then review the various search results to see if you find that word ending a sentence. The "frankenbite" scenario.

Or search an interview for every time the speaker says "Apple" or a person's name or certain phrases. It will display the results in the same manner. The lower the percentage, the wider the search results, but also the more sloppy. The higher the threshold percentage, the fewer hits, but with greater accuracy (at the risk of missing some good ones).

I've done a lot of interview-based docs, web videos and marketing pieces and almost never have a transcript. I work with the material in front of me. I've found that transcripts can be a false aid, since often times things that looks like they would edit together well have the wrong inflections, so I prefer to work without transcripts. OTOH, transcripts (with a way to match locations in the media) can be a get help, when the producer says, "What about statement XYZ? I seem to recall them saying that." If they can give you a way to find it based on the transcript, then it's easy to call up and review.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 25, 2014 at 9:24:32 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I've done a lot of interview-based docs, web videos and marketing pieces and almost never have a transcript. I work with the material in front of me. I've found that transcripts can be a false aid, since often times things that looks like they would edit together well have the wrong inflections, so I prefer to work without transcripts. "

I agree that doing a paper edit from a transcript can lead to impossible scenarios some times, but I hate not having a transcript because I can speed though a transcript much faster than watching an interview.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 26, 2014 at 1:05:27 am

[Andrew Kimery] "because I can speed though a transcript much faster than watching an interview."

I believe there is absolutely no substitute for watching the interview in full. As an editor I find it essential in getting the right feel for the subject. There are often things said, where the emotion is more important than the actual words. You don't get that from transcripts and can't shortcut the process.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Neil Goodman
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 26, 2014 at 1:41:01 am

[Oliver Peters] "I believe there is absolutely no substitute for watching the interview in full. As an editor I find it essential in getting the right feel for the subject. There are often things said, where the emotion is more important than the actual words. You don't get that from transcripts and can't shortcut the process.

- Oliver
"


I agree, paper cuts made from transcripts hardly ever work because of expression, and connotation. When a producer hands me one, I always ask if they watched the interview. usually they dont :(


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Andy Field
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 26, 2014 at 1:50:22 am

Absolutely agree with Oliver...I do documentary and news work and you make the connections and solve the puzzle by logging and transcribing everything. The act of doing that helps me write the piece as a producer director editor


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 26, 2014 at 10:26:16 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Nov 26, 2014 at 10:35:19 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I've found that transcripts can be a false aid,"

I did a thing with a ton of interviews for a health insurer - it's quick and dirty, but as long as they're answering clear, (maybe shared questions). stringing out and chopping each of the IV's on its own sequence with each response getting a quick clapper board top with roughly written bulletin notes for the following answer can work pretty well? doing the cliff notes top for each answer can drill it in a bit, and putting the text slug notes on V2 lets you jump scan through each IV pretty quickly later. It's maybe better than sub-clipping that way.

It really helps if the gig is small scale enough that the director/producer is invested enough in the result to sit in for the process -
its paired brain training as much as anything. not applicable to a ken burns doco like...

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 3, 2014 at 8:33:10 pm
Last Edited By David Roth Weiss on Dec 3, 2014 at 8:39:35 pm

[Oliver Peters] "
I've done a lot of interview-based docs, web videos and marketing pieces and almost never have a transcript. I work with the material in front of me. I've found that transcripts can be a false aid, since often times things that looks like they would edit together well have the wrong inflections, so I prefer to work without transcripts. OTOH, transcripts (with a way to match locations in the media) can be a get help, when the producer says, "What about statement XYZ? I seem to recall them saying that." If they can give you a way to find it based on the transcript, then it's easy to call up and review.
"


Hey Oliver, after 40-years of making long-form docos, all with hundreds of hours of interviews, I can assure you that having time-coded transcripts is a huge timesaver in post, because it allows the editor to take advantage of the non-linear random access functionality of their NLEs. While I do agree with you that transcripts are most certainly imperfect on there own without first correlating them with the source material, once that step is done the post process truly becomes non-linear, and thus much faster.

When the printed transcripts are returned from the transcriptionist the best practice is to playback the material while following along in the transcript (this is close to realtime and is essentially linear functionality). I use a highlighter to mark the best soundbites on the printed pages, and I insert markers in whatever NLE I'm using - and, on that initial pass I can usually, but not always, discern which inflections cut together and which will not (sometimes you just have to try an audio cut to be sure).

There are innumerable advantages to the method above, but the primary advantage is that, once you've correlated the transcripts with the interview in your NLE (i.e. linear), from that point on, you can then quickly jump at hi-speed (i.e. random access) to any point you've previously marked - now you're using your NLE as it was designed, as a truly non-linear random access device.

In addition, everyone working on the project, from the secretary up to the Executive Producer, can have their own copy of the timecoded and marked transcript to refer to, even if they are in the field and don't have a computer nearby, meaning that everyone is "always on the same page," both literally and figuratively. This can be a huge advantage to almost every department involved...

Does this make sense?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 3, 2014 at 11:43:46 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Does this make sense?"

Sure. I just never found transcripts to be all that helpful to me personally in shaping the story. For the rest of the process, a bit more. Especially when you need to go back for an alternate dive. One of the things I liked about FCP 7 - and that I sorely miss in X - was the extensive use of custom notes columns, as well as how marker text was identified on the timeline. When I would break down interviews in FCP 7, I would add lengthy text to each marker. Right-clicking the timeline exposed a pulldown of all the marker text in a submenu. Quite handy.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 3, 2014 at 11:47:24 pm

[Oliver Peters] "When I would break down interviews in FCP 7, I would add lengthy text to each marker. Right-clicking the timeline exposed a pulldown of all the marker text in a submenu. Quite handy."

Oliver, that sounds an awful lot like metadata... are you sure you were doing such a thing back before 2011?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Oliver Peters
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 3, 2014 at 11:48:52 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Oliver, that sounds an awful lot like metadata... are you sure you were doing such a thing back before 2011?"

LOL. Yes ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 3, 2014 at 11:58:00 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Oliver, that sounds an awful lot like metadata... are you sure you were doing such a thing back before 2011?"

Easy Walter, some folk don't take too kindly ta jokin' down here in these parts. :)


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Walter Soyka
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 4, 2014 at 12:20:32 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Easy Walter, some folk don't take too kindly ta jokin' down here in these parts. :)"

Then I'll skip my question about whether that old metadata was stored in some kind of database!

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Charlie Austin
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 3, 2014 at 11:57:07 pm

[Oliver Peters] "When I would break down interviews in FCP 7, I would add lengthy text to each marker. Right-clicking the timeline exposed a pulldown of all the marker text in a submenu. Quite handy."

You can still kind of do that with the timeline index, using the various marker types for different categories of notes. Would be handy if the marker text showed up in more that just the marker name though,and wrapped so no need to hover to see the complete text. Having more "notes' fields available in list view in the browser would be nice s well...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 4, 2014 at 12:00:03 am

[Charlie Austin] "You can still kind of do that with the timeline index,"

I understand. Still not as useful in FCP 7. Plus it's only tied to the clip itself, whereas sometimes it's better to be tied to the sequence time.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 4, 2014 at 12:27:32 am

[Oliver Peters] "I understand. Still not as useful in FCP 7. Plus it's only tied to the clip itself, whereas sometimes it's better to be tied to the sequence time."

Agreed...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Michael Sanders
Re: Speech to text
on Nov 25, 2014 at 7:50:10 pm

When researching setting up my other half as a transcriber (so she could earn money whilst doing her PhD) I was told the industry has maybe ten years at most. Computer transcription is so good now its scary.

Just try this: find a press conference on TV, hold your iPhone up to the speaker in Notes or whatever in dictation mode.. Even on an scottish accent it did a very good job!

Michael

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Mark Suszko
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 1, 2014 at 5:59:00 pm

While I agree we're not too far off from perfect automatic machine transcription of audio bites, we're not there today, as evidenced by whatever system YouTube is using. I've found some really egregious examples here and there of bad machine translation and am currently editing the best/worst of these attempts into something I call YouTube Haiku translation poetry.

It was inspired by turning on the captioning for a clip on doing a specific plumbing repair. YT translated the man's slight Canadian accent into garbled passages that read like Zen Koans.

In just 5 years or less, this will be greatly improved, as we're heading into another level of available processing power, thanks to the stimulus of Big Data projects like the Square Kilometer Array and the Human Brain Project. I look forward to having smartphones reliably translate speech to text for the hard of hearing, but also to use their cameras and machine vision to translate sign language back to text or synthetic speech in real time as well.


Meanwhile, I have an idea of how I want to do captioning in FCPX for my shop. It would require me to vocally repeat the program audio in my own voice, into a voice rec program like Dragon or the mac's own voice rec. That would generate a raw text file, which I'd then process thru maccaption and probably Compressor. Is anybody else you know if doing it that way already, because it can't be that original of an approach. By re-speaking the dialogue, I'm hoping the voice recognition works better because it will be trained to just my single voice, in more isolated audio, than it would face by decoding the actual wild tracks with their background noise and other distractions/interference.

ANYTHING to avoid typing transcripts or paying for expensive transcription services.

Also, does FCPX output a legal embedded closed caption track within a broadcast codec on it's own at this point, or not?


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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Dec 2, 2014 at 12:47:32 pm

[Mark Suszko] "Also, does FCPX output a legal embedded closed caption track within a broadcast codec on it's own at this point, or not?"
That's what I wanted to know as well. I don't think so. The word "caption" brings zero hits in the FCP X help file. I believe you need to add the captions with Compressor and an SRT file as far as I can tell. I'd love to be proven wrong.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Amanda Duffield
Re: Speech to text
on Mar 13, 2017 at 12:14:34 pm

Can I revisit this question re transcription.

I've read all the posts - I have svp13.
I'm trying to convince my employer to buy vasst caption assistant.

I had no idea there were programs that 'synced' the text phrases to the audio, even if it was a rough sync, that would still be fantastic for me.
Can I confirm I'm understanding this correctly?

At the moment I
1. use machine transcription directly from an audio file (I render a high quality mp3 and use Dragon Naturally Speaking)
2. edit and make the line lengths the way I want them for importing to DVD architect pro or Vegas.
3. do the timing in one of those.
4. then, depending on what I want, I may export captions so that handbrake can burn them in, or burn them in via titles @ text using Vegas, or burn a dvd with closed captions via dvd architect.

I know vasst will import the text and choose the line breaks itself. This is not using any kind of sound/sync is it? I presume it's using some kind of english rules to find where to break mid-sentence?

Anyway, is there a quicker step here? Maybe after I've edited the transcript, can some program to a quick rough sync and then I edit that?

Where is the best place to get advice/training on the best workflow for a one-person post-production captioning job? I'm currently trial-ing Caption Maker - does that import using some kind of sound/sync option? I can't tell from the trial version.

thanks.


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John Rofrano
Re: Speech to text
on Mar 13, 2017 at 2:50:24 pm

[Amanda Duffield] "I know vasst will import the text and choose the line breaks itself. This is not using any kind of sound/sync is it? I presume it's using some kind of english rules to find where to break mid-sentence?"
If you are referring to VASST Caption Assistant, it is not doing any audio sync. It is a tool for you to drop the captions in the right place as you watch the video. It uses some simple English rules for suggesting initial line breaks but you can change them very easily.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Amanda Duffield
Re: Speech to text
on Mar 14, 2017 at 2:22:33 pm

Yes, I'm referring to vasst.
I thought so, but wanted to double check.
I think I prefer to put the line breaks where I want them, in the original transcript.
thanks for you rreply.
I keep requesting your product but they keep saying no.
fingers crossed!


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Andy Field
Re: Speech to text
on Mar 14, 2017 at 10:32:36 pm

this is the very best transcription service I've found -- ridiculously inexpensive and very accurate http://www.trint.com we use it every day - nothing beats it for accuracy and price per use

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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