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Charlie Austin
This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 15, 2014 at 8:31:10 pm

... so I thought I'd put it here. It just seems... apt. ;-)

“Generals are notorious for their tendency to ‘fight the last war’ – by using the strategies and tactics of the past to achieve victory in the present. Indeed, we all do this to some extent. Life’s lessons are hard won, and we like to apply them – even when they don’t apply. Sadly enough, fighting the last war is often a losing proposition. Conditions change. Objectives change. Strategies change. And you must change. If you don’t, you lose.”

– Dr. G. Terry Madonna and Dr. Michael Young

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Brett Sherman
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 16, 2014 at 3:15:17 pm

Wait, are you calling people dinosaurs? :) I'm sure I can figure out a way that you are.


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Mitch Ives
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 16, 2014 at 3:31:37 pm

Not to put too fine a point on things, but what the hell do a couple of Dr's know about war?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Charlie Austin
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 16, 2014 at 5:14:43 pm

[Mitch Ives] "Not to put too fine a point on things, but what the hell do a couple of Dr's know about war?"

Point taken. The quote was from an article about politics, and was referencing the Maginot Line. Even a professor can see relying on that was a mistake... Anyway, I just liked the quote. Not calling anyone dinosaurs either. I think it applies to the film/TV industry in general so I kinda liked it.

I've cut spots recently (in FCP 7 FWIW) that "aired" on Vine. That's the new "war". :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Herb Sevush
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 4:57:18 am

[Mitch Ives] "Not to put too fine a point on things, but what the hell do a couple of Dr's know about war?"

Not to put too fine a point on things, but what does it matter who makes an observation so long as it's true?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Mitch Ives
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 4:45:41 pm

Ahh the assumptive part... "if it's true"?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Herb Sevush
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 5:02:38 pm

[Mitch Ives] "Ahh the assumptive part... "if it's true"?"

In the case of the quote under discussion, the observation that every new war is planned with the outmoded lessons learned in the previous war has been around since at least the civil war and is an accepted doctrine in military planning. So, doctor's or not, the quote is on pretty safe ground.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Mitch Ives
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 18, 2014 at 11:44:03 am

[Herb Sevush] "In the case of the quote under discussion, the observation that every new war is planned with the outmoded lessons learned in the previous war has been around since at least the civil war and is an accepted doctrine in military planning. So, doctor's or not, the quote is on pretty safe ground."

I think the case that some things are still relevant could be made... as in "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Perhaps more relevant, if we fought wars properly the first time, we wouldn't have to keep repeating this exercise...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Herb Sevush
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 18, 2014 at 12:08:37 pm

[Mitch Ives] "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it""

Which is exactly why historical analysis of the type that started this thread is so valuable.

[Mitch Ives] "if we fought wars properly the first time, we wouldn't have to keep repeating this exercise..."

How do you fight a war more properly?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Mitch Ives
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 18, 2014 at 12:31:11 pm

[Herb Sevush] "How do you fight a war more properly?"

You set clear goals before you go... and you leave once you have accomplished them. You don't wander over with no plan and no way of knowing when you've achieved your goals. And you don't hang around forever, nation-building...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Herb Sevush
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 5:00:35 am

For military quotes with far reaching significance I tend to prefer

"No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy."

Helmuth von Moltke

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Ronny Courtens
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 7:50:18 am

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

- Ronny


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Phil Hoppes
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 1:21:26 pm

I don't know.... I think I prefer this one:

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure."
- Ellen Ripley from Aliens

It's a little more relevant to this forum too.


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Herb Sevush
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 1:27:07 pm

[Phil Hoppes] "It's a little more relevant to this forum too."

My proposed motto for this forum -

“If They Move, Kill ‘Em!”

Pike Bishop, The wild Bunch.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 1:58:16 pm

"The mind plays tricks on you. You play tricks back! It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting and knitting and knitting..."

-PeeWee Herman


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Daniel Frome
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 4:04:02 pm

That's a great quote... but... it just doesn't have that sizzle you know? I'm going to need you to punch it up a bit ... you know, just make it really sing. Also...he sounds too sad. Can you make him more happy?


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David Mathis
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 17, 2014 at 4:21:29 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on Nov 17, 2014 at 4:23:36 pm

After reading through this topic time to come with my new signature:

When life gives me lemons, there are two ways I look at it: As lemonade or a gas guzzling clunker that could fall apart on me at any moment. I prefer lemonade.

For some reason, this one seems to apply very nicely. My two cents.


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Mark Suszko
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 18, 2014 at 3:29:48 pm

I guess there's a documentary out on this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

But I think it would make a hell of a dramatic movie, again, showing "management" too wrapped up in re-fighting the last war with old tactics, and being blind to innovations.


Exercise action

Red, commanded by retired Marine Corps Lieutenant General Paul K. Van Riper, adopted an asymmetric strategy, in particular, using old methods to evade Blue's sophisticated electronic surveillance network. Van Riper used motorcycle messengers to transmit orders to front-line troops and World War II light signals to launch airplanes without radio communications. The Naval Simulation, Joint Semi-Automated Forces (JSAF) had neither a sophisticated electronic network nor the modeling of WWII lights at the time of MC-02 according to the developer of the JSAF simulation; Mr. Guy Purser, Director, Modeling and Simulation, NWDC.

Red received an ultimatum from Blue, essentially a surrender document, demanding a response within 24 hours. Thus warned of Blue's approach, Red used a fleet of small boats to determine the position of Blue's fleet by the second day of the exercise. At approximately the same time that Red had located Blue forces, operators of the Blue naval simulation were directed incorrectly to turn off all self-defense capabilities by a senior Naval Officer who was not in command of the simulated forces nor current in the scenario. In a preemptive strike, Red launched a massive salvo of cruise missiles that destroyed sixteen warships while the JSAF simulator operators sat and watched without responding defensively or offensively. This included one aircraft carrier, ten cruisers and five of six amphibious ships. An equivalent success in a real conflict would have resulted in the deaths of over 20,000 service personnel. Soon after the cruise missile offensive, another significant portion of Blue's navy was "sunk" by an armada of small Red boats, which carried out both conventional and suicide attacks that capitalized on Blue's inability to detect them as well as expected.;[1] again it should be noted, the JSAF simulation did not at that time have the suicide behaviors modeled nor the damage models of interactions of a small boat impacting a ship.

At this point, the exercise was suspended, Blue's ships were "re-floated", and the rules of engagement were changed; this was later justified by General Peter Pace as follows: "You kill me in the first day and I sit there for the next 13 days doing nothing, or you put me back to life and you get 13 more days' worth of experiment out of me. Which is a better way to do it?"[2] After the reset, both sides were ordered to follow predetermined plans of action. This was done to achieve the real goals of the exercise and experiment which was to stimulate command and control systems which determine the outcome of the scenario.[3]

After the wargame was restarted, its participants were forced to follow a script drafted to ensure a Blue Force victory. Among other rules imposed by this script, Red Force was ordered to turn on their anti-aircraft radar in order for them to be destroyed, and was not allowed to shoot down any of the aircraft bringing Blue Force troops ashore.[4] Van Riper also claimed that exercise officials denied him the opportunity to use his own tactics and ideas against Blue Force, and that they also ordered Red Force not to use certain weapons systems against Blue Force and even ordered the location of Red Force units to be revealed.[5]

This led to accusations that the war game had turned from an honest, open free play test of America's war-fighting capabilities into a rigidly controlled and scripted exercise intended to end in an overwhelming American victory,[4] alleging that "$250 million was wasted".[6]
Aftermath

Van Riper was extremely critical of the scripted nature of the new exercise and resigned from the exercise in the middle of the war game. Van Riper later said that the Vice Admiral Marty Mayer altered the exercise's purpose to reinforce existing doctrine and notions of infallibility within the U.S. military rather than serving as a learning experience.

Van Riper also stated that the war game was rigged so that it appeared to validate the modern, joint-service war-fighting concepts it was supposed to be testing.[5] He was quoted in the ZDF–New York Times documentary The Perfect War (2004)[7] as saying that what he saw in MC02 echoed the same view promoted by the Department of Defense under Robert McNamara before and during the Vietnam War, namely that the U.S. military could not and would not be defeated.

Responding to Van Riper's criticism, Vice Admiral Mayer, who ran the war game and who was charged with developing the military's joint concepts and requirements, stated the following:[5]


Gen. Van Riper apparently feels he was too constrained. I can only say there were certain parts where he was not constrained, and then there were parts where he was in order to facilitate the conduct of the experiment and certain exercise pieces that were being done.


—Vice Admiral Marty Mayer

Navy Captain John Carman, Joint Forces Command spokesman, said the war game had properly validated all the major concepts which were tested by Blue Force, ignoring the restrictions placed on Van Riper's Red Force that led them to succeed. Based on these findings, John Carman stated that recommendations based on the war game's result on areas such as doctrine, training and procurement would be forwarded to General Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.[5]


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Scott Witthaus
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 19, 2014 at 2:01:55 am

Damn, I am glad this is an FCPX forum....

;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Andrew Kimery
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 19, 2014 at 3:46:13 am

While you guys are pointlessly yammering I'm get real work done. I'm transferring 4k to 1" tape because I'm pretty certain this whole Internet, DCP, tapeless media fad is going to crash and burn pretty soon.


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Herb Sevush
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 19, 2014 at 4:46:38 am

[Andrew Kimery] " I'm transferring 4k to 1" tape because I'm pretty certain this whole Internet, DCP, tapeless media fad is going to crash and burn pretty soon."

Then you should be transferring to film.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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David Mathis
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 19, 2014 at 6:19:48 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "hile you guys are pointlessly yammering I'm get real work done. I'm transferring 4k to 1" tape because I'm pretty certain this whole Internet, DCP, tapeless media fad is going to crash and burn pretty soon."

Priceless. Are you going to transfer music from CD to 8 track? You know, that is coming back. Flip side is how do edit an 8 track tape in FCP X where there are not any? :-)

When life gives me lemons, there are two ways I look at it: As lemonade or a gas guzzling clunker that could fall apart on me at any moment. I prefer lemonade.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: This quote is too long for a sig...
on Nov 20, 2014 at 2:49:49 am

[David Mathis] "how do edit an 8 track tape in FCP X where there are not any? "

That's an Avid job (or Premiere)....

;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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