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Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?

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Steve Connor
Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:42:23 pm

The 27" iMac Retina looks great but where's our 5K Cinema Display?


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 16, 2014 at 6:55:09 pm

Yeah I was waiting for that too - would be incredible to have them side by side. Wondering if the maxed out iMac will be all one needs for editing - meaning do I need a new Mac Pro?

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Ryan Holmes
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 8:04:55 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Wondering if the maxed out iMac will be all one needs for editing - meaning do I need a new Mac Pro?"

Good question! I found it interesting that when Apple wanted to sum up it's product line offerings into a singular graphic slide it left off the Mac Pro, but included the unreleased Apple Watch.

That doesn't seem like a strong vote from Apple Management for the Mac Pro. But as Lance asks, there's a good chance that for the vast majority of video, audio, and graphics professionals an iMac may be more than sufficient. The horsepower on the new iMac's has me looking at them as a solution for some of my edit suites.



Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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David Lawrence
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 18, 2014 at 2:43:16 am

[Ryan Holmes] "That doesn't seem like a strong vote from Apple Management for the Mac Pro. But as Lance asks, there's a good chance that for the vast majority of video, audio, and graphics professionals an iMac may be more than sufficient. The horsepower on the new iMac's has me looking at them as a solution for some of my edit suites."

Agreed. This article from Marco Arment adds further support to the idea that for many pros, the new iMac will be a better choice than a Mac Pro.

http://www.marco.org/2014/10/16/retina-imac-vs-mac-pro

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Lance Bachelder
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 18, 2014 at 8:58:21 pm

That's my thought - 4Ghz quad i7 with 4GB gpu is pretty nice and there is no 5K or retina option with the MacPro. Now if they release a 5K Cinema display that could sway back toward Mac Pro. Not saying I need 5K by the way, I don't even have 4K yet and love my dual LG 27's.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Marcus Moore
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 19, 2014 at 1:29:46 pm

As Marco says in his own article, it depends on how much a part of your workflow involves parallel processed tasks.

You certainly aren't going to get as good performance running RED RAW files on this machines as you do with software that has GPU enabled debayering- Pr, Resolve [and hopefully soon FCPX].

But for single threaded tasks, the horsepower in a MacPro has always been a waste.

You're going to be limited on the Thunderbolt side as well, with only two ports. Do we know if those 2 ports share a bus or not? That could be a big limiting factor as well.


But undeniably the useful performance gap for most people will continue to narrow. I'd say the iMac would catch up, but until we see a good levelling off of capture Resolutions, the pure GPU performance in machines like the MacPro will continue to make a difference for higher-end uses. And next year's 40Gb/s Thunderbolt 3 will continue to allow us to externalize hardware that previously needed internal PCIe.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 16, 2014 at 7:22:03 pm

This is just a guess, but I think that the entire Apple product line couldn't push a 5k screen, so they don't sell it.

I was hoping for one as well.


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Jason Porthouse
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 16, 2014 at 8:31:29 pm

Would be neat if you could use a secon retina iMac as a slave monitor whilst levering the second GPU and processor for rendering...

_________________________________

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Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.



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David Lawrence
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 16, 2014 at 11:59:49 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This is just a guess, but I think that the entire Apple product line couldn't push a 5k screen, so they don't sell it."

I think you're exactly right.

They make note of the new TCON (timing controller) hardware in the new iMac:

Orchestrating the performance of 14.7 million pixels.

A more advanced timing controller.

The timing controller, or “TCON,” is the brains of the display — it tells each pixel what to do and when to do it. Because iMac with Retina 5K display has four times as many pixels as the standard 27-inch iMac display, the TCON had to be able to handle more information than ever. But even the most powerful timing controllers available couldn’t manage this number of pixels, so we had to create a new one with four times the bandwidth of the previous-generation 27-inch iMac — up to 40 Gbps. Now a single supercharged chip beautifully orchestrates the symphony of all 14.7 million pixels.

I don't think you'll see new cinema displays until this chip is in all machines across the board. Even though my top-of-the-line retina MacBook Pro can handle 4K, I'll probably need to replace it to use this 5K screen. I have no idea how the Mac Pro would do.

I was looking forward to a 4K Cinema Display to act as a USB3/Thunderbolt/ethernet hub for my laptop. Looks like I not only have to wait, but will likely need to get a whole new machine if I want an Apple solution. I'm disappointed too.

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David Lawrence
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 12:36:53 am

Update:

Good article about this on The Verge:

http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/16/6990629/why-is-apples-999-display-stuck-...

"At such a scale, even the best existing technologies wouldn't have made this iMac possible," Apple says. To a degree that's true, because even Thunderbolt 2 isn't designed for that resolution, something that's coming in a new version of DisplayPort technology announced last month."

So it's probably DisplayPort 1.3 that we'll have to wait for across the line before we get a 5K cinema display. How long before this new standard gets adopted?

http://www.displayport.org/pr/vesa-releases-displayport-1-3-standard/

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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 1:20:09 am

[David Lawrence] "They make note of the new TCON (timing controller) hardware in the new iMac:"

I listened to that part of the video like 4 times this afternoon and could NOT make out what the hell he was saying! :) Now, I know. TCON!

Thanks for pointing to the website.

[David Lawrence] "I was looking forward to a 4K Cinema Display to act as a USB3/Thunderbolt/ethernet hub for my laptop. Looks like I not only have to wait, but will likely need to get a whole new machine if I want an Apple solution. I'm disappointed too.
"



This monitor is looking better and better: http://www.lg.com/id/monitor/lg-34UM95


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Mitch Ives
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 16, 2014 at 8:58:00 pm
Last Edited By Mitch Ives on Oct 16, 2014 at 8:59:48 pm

[Steve Connor] "where's our 5K Cinema Display?"

Exactly... but why am I not surprised? Apple can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory better than anyone. This decision will sure have people feeling good about their expensive Mac Pro purchases, huh?

To Lance's question, I suppose everything is subjective. To a lot of people, an iMac is enough. Hell, Bill's using a laptop and says it's enough.

To those of us with really powerful Mac Pro's, the time saved by all that speed and ram is worth it. Especially, with Motion. I just finished eleven videos that started in Motion and ended in FCP X. This years were even more complicated than last year's and I did them in less than 1/3 the time it took last year on an old style Mac Pro with a state of the art upgraded display card. While an iMac would be faster than the old Mac Pro, it isn't anywhere near the new Mac Pro's speed (depending on config of course).

So, will an iMac be fast enough? I guess that depends on how demanding you are... but I'd be willing to bet that a 5K iMac would still be nice.

BTW, I read somewhere than an iMac can be used as a stand alone monitor. If true, it's an expensive way to get a simple monitor, but might be an option.

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Santiago Martí
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 16, 2014 at 11:58:21 pm

Some time ago Dell announced the new 5K ultrasharps. I'm almost sure they use the same panels, so both models must be near.

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X waiting for Dragon update, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CC, Assimilate Scratch


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 11:38:18 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Oct 17, 2014 at 11:38:49 am

I'd say it's pretty simple.

First Thunderbolt iMac: May 2011

First Thunderbolt Display: July 2011

You do the math. :)

I'd also say making sure there is enough supply for the iMac first, before making the standalone version available is simply good business sense. They've had enough supply problems in the past (that the pundits jumped all over of course) to not want even more. Especially when you're dealing primarily with the usual whiny "they don't care about pros!" crowd that I'm sure will be the people most interested. ;)

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Mitch Ives
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 3:13:04 pm

Unless of course they've discovered that a current MacPro doesn't have the necessary horsepower to drive a 5K display. Then they'll either have to make a 4K display or bail on the "pro's" as you refer to them...

My bet... they'll update the Mac Pro to support a 5K display and leave the people with 6 month old Mac Pros behind... but then I'm probably just being whiny...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Blair Thornton
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 4:45:53 pm

That's a great guess - 3 months away.

Technically Apple can't push 5K Cinema display on Thunderbolt 2 which maxes at out at DCI 4096 x 2180, so we'll need a MacPro or something with an interum solution like USB 3.1 with display port 1.3 for a 5K display to happen.

Thunderbolt3 could do it, but that's 9 months away !

Blair Thornton
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416 917-9740


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Marcus Moore
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 5:03:51 pm

This is the advantage in the iMac that they've figured out an integrated solution.

I only see one way that a 5K ACD works with the current generation MacPros, and that's some kind of Dual Link solution like we used to have- and those can be problematic.

I'll be disappointed as anyone, but I don't think there was another solution to be had, unless it was waiting to release the MacPro for another year. Which would have driven people mental.

A 5K screen isn't the be all for me anyway. If I want a higher density display, there are really great 4K options out there now for a pretty good price. And the difference is much more negligible between 4K and 5K.

You don't grade to your computer displays anyway- I've honestly been wondering if my better bet isn't 2 current generation ACDs and a good 4K TV instead for monitoring.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 6:51:41 pm

[Marcus Moore] "A 5K screen isn't the be all for me anyway. If I want a higher density display, there are really great 4K options out there now for a pretty good price. And the difference is much more negligible between 4K and 5K."

Agreed... I'd just like to see an Apple 4K Cinema Display...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Marcus Moore
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 17, 2014 at 6:56:41 pm

I think we're out of luck on that one. This 5K display is the one Apple have wanted to do, because its a straight doubling of the current resolution, which means it works great for the OS scaling modes.

I think 4K displays will be left to 3rd parties. The good news there is those displays will be cheaper.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 19, 2014 at 6:53:03 pm

All seems to me like more of a logical fallacy then anything else. Since who wants to be monitoring what (and why) on a 27" 5K screen? Just the desktop? Then simply get any 27" monitor. You'll be seeing the exact same thing. 4K video? So are you looking to watch it with a black frame around it or simply scaled? In which case neither strike me as terribly attractive compared to simply getting a "real" 4K monitor instead. Monitoring 5K material? Do I want or need to be doing that?

So yes, I guess one has to question the actual sense of Apple offering a more expensive 5K monitor as opposed to one simply buying a (possibly even better) less expensive 4K monitor, if that's in fact what you need. And for whatever it is you are monitoring at that resolution to begin with...

Especially since the 5K iMac is in fact already giving you "native" 4K monitoring within the normal FCP interface, with enough room for events and timeline to spare. In which case the 5K actually start making some sense. Go full screen and you have the exact same thing that you would if you had a standalone. So... why do I need it or does Apple need to make one? Honest question.

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Marcus Moore
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 20, 2014 at 12:55:42 pm

I don't think 5K has much of anything to do with viewing 4K content specifically. You don't use a computer display as a colour accurate monitor anyway.

The Retina initiative from it's launch on the iPhone4 has always been about doing away with visible pixels. 10 years from now we'll look back at a lot of displays today the same way we look at ones from 10 years ago.

Text will be sharp and clear. Interface elements will be detailed and completely devoid of aliasing. Photos incredibly detailed. And yes, 4K content can be viewed at full size (with Room to spare).

But let's not confuse the purpose of a 4K TV with a computer monitor.

I'm a bit disappointed this MacPro won't be able to run the eventual 5K ACD. But I think Marco Arment is right, that external displays have to wait for Skylake, Thunderbolt3 and Displayport 1.3. That won't be until late 2015 or early 2016. So its not like I'm missing out on anything until then.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 20, 2014 at 1:35:43 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I don't think 5K has much of anything to do with viewing 4K content specifically. You don't use a computer display as a colour accurate monitor anyway."

I do, and you could, too, if Apple ever gets around to adding deep color support to the OS.

All you need is a good monitor, a probe to profile it, and a color management-aware application.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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David Lawrence
Re: Where's our 5K Retina Cinema Display?
on Oct 20, 2014 at 4:50:07 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I do, and you could, too, if Apple ever gets around to adding deep color support to the OS.

All you need is a good monitor, a probe to profile it, and a color management-aware application."


^^^^ Agreed!

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