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FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?

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Josh Cook
FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 3:31:22 pm

This may seem academic, but I would love to know what others think.

Despite being discontinued, I have been hired to edit on FCP7 continually up until now. I don't cut on Avid, but I DO present myself as a Premiere editor as well. I've had maybe one Premiere job in the past five years. With the prevalence of FCP7 still in the professional space (I'm talking mostly ad agencies and yes, a few production companies), why is no one recreating it? Why isn't there someone simply coding a new edit software from the ground up that takes advantage of current hardware that blatantly copies the design of FCP7? I suppose you might have to name a few things different to avoid copyright issues or something, but NLE's are all kinda based on the same concept so there shouldn't be patent issues. It seems like a crazy obvious opportunity to serve a rather large population who want this. Is there something I don't know?

How many forum posts have you read in the past decade about reluctantly switching to Premiere, Avid or (gasp) FCPX?


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Mark Suszko
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 3:44:16 pm

Some say that Premiere CC IS the re-created FCP 8 and 9 that never showed up. You can map the keyboard to the shortcuts you already know. The timeline is much the same, as are the bin structures.


You can't make a new FCP7 because the typw of underlying code for it is no longer supported. What you're asking for is to *emulate* the GUI of FCP7 in a 64 bit up to date platform.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 4:08:15 pm
Last Edited By Ronny Courtens on Sep 25, 2014 at 4:26:51 pm

FCP 7 is not "dead", a lot of people are still using it. But if you are a freelance editor and you still want to be a freelancer in the future, you will need to know different NLEs and not restrict yourself to just one.

- Ronny


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David Mathis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 4:09:10 pm

While part of me does miss Final Cut Pro 7 and versions prior, I have found FCP X to be fast (in most situations), responsive, more efficient and fun to work with.

The biggest thing I miss most is the "Send To Motion" function. I doubt that we will see that feature anytime soon. On the other hand, it is fairly easy to create a custom transition, generator, effect or title in Motion 5 for later use inside of FCP X which is a huge time saver and fun to do.

I did find myself fighting the magnetic timeline at first, granted that tracks are useful but the way FCP goes about editing makes things much faster.

Not sure if you have been following Resolve 11 but in the latest update (still in beta with full version due at end of month) is the ability to perform a swap edit or add a default transition to multiple clips at the same time. Both of these features were in FCP 7 and some earlier versions. Resolve is not yet considered a prime time NLE because of choppy playback but maybe that will be addressed. Until then, FCP X gets the job done and I find it a pleasure to work with.


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:11:56 pm

[David Mathis] "add a default transition to multiple clips at the same time."

umm... like this?

default trans



-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bret Williams
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:26:03 pm

I was wondering when someone would set that straight. Sorry David I was getting tired of hearing you say that! :)


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Bret Williams
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:34:01 pm
Last Edited By Bret Williams on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:34:42 pm

EDIT: Whoops, mixed up two posts. Nevermind!


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David Mathis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:37:14 pm

Yes. Just got a liitle too excited. Going to sit in the corner now. ;-)

camera operator | editor | production assistant

Remember kids, tracks are you friends when you charge by the hour. Track Tetris, game on!


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Bill Davis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 6:29:24 pm

But But But.... Command T is TWO keystrokes. WHY CANT I DO IT IN ONE KEYSTROKE!!!!! This software totally sux.

(shaking myself out of the dream)

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bret Williams
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:38:02 pm

Are you still getting choppy playback? Mine was cured with Apple OSX update months ago. You still can't move the mouse during playback, which is an issue for adjusting audio on the fly, but I wouldn't call that a choppy playback problem.


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Richard Herd
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 4:14:30 pm

[Josh Cook] "How many forum posts have you read in the past decade about reluctantly switching to Premiere, Avid or (gasp) FCPX?
"


Probably somewhere around 10,000


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James Patterson
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 4:27:01 pm

Get over it, FCP 7 is dead and it's not coming back, but to be honest if you just want a similar UI to 7 then the move to premiere should be straight forward. In any case I've always set FCP and Avid up as similarly as possible and Premiere is even more flexible with keyboard controls.

Not sure where you're based but in London all the agencies are switching from FCP7 to Adobe.

Best

Paddy


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Richard Herd
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 8:54:54 pm

I'm over it.


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Andy Neil
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:13:37 pm

[Josh Cook] "Why isn't there someone simply coding a new edit software from the ground up that takes advantage of current hardware that blatantly copies the design of FCP7?"

Because writing an NLE from the ground up isn't easy. Just ask blackmagic design. Without an existing foundation to start from, it would take years and lots of coders to get anywhere near approximation of final cut 7. By the time you finish, it would be completely obsolete comparative to the existing NLEs out there.

Besides, people like FCP 7 for it's editing paradigm and it's familiarity. Any new editing software that skirts around Apples patents without violating them would require it's own learning curve so you'd be in the same place as the other software companies.

I recently had to edit something in FCP7 and let me tell you, that NLE feels really damn old.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:25:55 pm

[Josh Cook] " It seems like a crazy obvious opportunity to serve a rather large population who want this. Is there something I don't know?"

You don't know how hard it would be. If it were easy, it would have happened, because you are correct, there is a market for FCP8. While PPro is close, since it was modeled on FCP from Premiere's first "pro" iteration, it is not nearly the same.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bret Williams
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:35:12 pm

Have you seen Resolve 11? It's much closer to FCP than Premiere will ever be. I've been wondering if they bought FCP legacy from Apple because it has so many of the same conventions. Even more so with the .1 update.


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David Mathis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:40:30 pm

I am ruining Resolve on a older mid 2012 Mac Pro. Could explain my experience.


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Bret Williams
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:43:30 pm
Last Edited By Bret Williams on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:43:55 pm

Possibly, since the 2012 is the same machine as the 2010, except with a very small processor bump. I'm running on the 2012 iMac. It was horrible at playback. But there was some issue I read about with 9.5.3 or something that was fixed. Seems good now. Gets about the same RT layers / fx as other NLEs it seems. But I'm no expert. I just go over there to play around with it every once in awhile to see how it's coming along.


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Andy Field
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:52:03 pm
Last Edited By Andy Field on Sep 25, 2014 at 5:52:57 pm

I've been on Premiere Pro since FCP 7''s EOL.....it gets better and more FCP7 like with each new upgrade...and with the one expected soon - will be even better (trans code and consolidate...something FCP 7 had for years will now be available in Premiere Pro CC.)

If you loved FCP 7....you will feel right at home in PP - in fact it does many things so much better - any format frame size speed - just toss in timeline - it works...no trans code on input - edit right off a P2 card or XDCAM Disk if you'd like....it will read and play back the files....only render and trans code happens when you're done with the edit.

Round trip to AE and Audition....auto changes show up from illustrator and photoshop (although i think they did in FCP 7 too)

There are some small, sometimes annoying differences. People get thrown by "where's the drop shadow and crop?....Color Correction is WAY different...take the time to learn that many built into the viewer Motion tab tools are now filters....and once you get used to the slider bars in Color Correction, you will love them.

No need to re-create FCP 7 - Adobe's already done it.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Ronny Courtens
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 6:22:51 pm

...it gets better and more FCP7 like with each new upgrade...

Funny, that's exactly why we decided NOT to use Premiere at our facility (-: We intentionally went for something different, for better or for worse, and still no regrets whatsoever.

- Ronny


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 9:45:31 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Sep 25, 2014 at 9:46:52 pm

it is getting crazy powerful though. even the fact that you have speedgrade looks you can bang on an adjustment layer isn't something I've played with much until recently. The fact that there's a half unloved but pretty world class grading system just sitting there waiting to take the timeline natively, or adjust the look is kind of bananas - also the AE integration is surprisingly useful? - to me at any rate.

I never used AE links, bar xml edit import because I never used PPro, but it sings pretty well, although I've developed a habit of duping and disabling the clip before I do the link - although that ends with the next update that can roll back to the edit item. Also that clip mixer - I guess you've got inspector level muting control that can propagate across the timeline - but the clip mixer is a big step up from tabbing audio channels in 7.

Also the animation and keyframing drop kicks FCPX out of the room. Seriously - keyframing has to be one of X's weakest features.

Also its ability to chug any motley mix of 1080p h264 for corporate or broadcast internal like its pro res - right up to gel colour solids and screen mode 2K effects plates, alphas and blurs on a 2012 stacked mbp in realtime is something I'm still getting my head around?
You can do a serious amount of compositing and type work in ppro really. full feathered bezier masks with tracking means dodge and burn natively on the timeline. that's huge really. I know you can sort of work that in X - but again that entire ppro initial grading masking work assembly can move transparently to AE for final finishing.

I think a lot of people are going to start investigating best practise for combined craft workflows with editing design and grading in ppro with the other linked apps - as in they are already - I personally feel ppro is likely to become extremely attractive for some parts of the market once sets of best practise workflows start to get shaped in small to medium design and production houses - and become commonly known.

You'd be thinking for pitching, commercials - I mean it's a great editor anyway, but parts of it feel just begging for pretty new cross disciplinary edit workflows?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Mitch Ives
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 4:23:32 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Seriously - keyframing has to be one of X's weakest features."

I'll agree with that...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Bill Davis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 6:37:31 pm

I'll agree with the keyframes deal as well.

But of course, very few people will choose not to have lunch with, say, Heidi Klum because she might currently have a blemish behind one knee.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Mitch Ives
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 27, 2014 at 2:37:45 pm

[Bill Davis] "I'll agree with the keyframes deal as well.

But of course, very few people will choose not to have lunch with, say, Heidi Klum because she might currently have a blemish behind one knee."


I suppose it depends on how much key framing you do as to whether that blemish is behind a knee or on the end of her nose...

I just hope Apple realizes that the key framing in FCP X is the "least elegant", "least Apple-like" thing in FCP X and puts it on the list...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 28, 2014 at 12:03:35 am
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Sep 28, 2014 at 12:36:51 am

you'd think X just needs to tool up a bit in terms of GUI stuff (say widening the audio meters or having interface presets? aren't those audio meters insane?)
also the conditional role organisation based channels for audio the will smith movie editor mentioned, and a bit of a rethink on the access and manipulation of animation keyframes.

PPro re-timing is a total mess relative to X tho - the timeline assembly for retiming in ppro is borked relative to X.
you can get used to it and I have doing some sports promos, but X basically unzips its fly on PPro there.

But it feels like X has a continuous elegance of thought advantage without being willing to get down and proper nasty in terms of workflow. you can't always play the beautiful intellectual game you would think. God knows adobe don't.

Apple might need to accept getting their hands dirty advancing X.
which goes back to the motivation problem: is there an apple team, hugely reduced, without pro-apps even on the mission statement, ready to play ball.

http://isachin.com/2011/06/30/why-apple-built-final-cut-pro-x/
things changed in 2006 and 2007. Serious competitors to Final Cut Pro came from Adobe, Pinnacle, Sony, and others. People were choosing their hardware and software based on format support, or specific features they needed. That’s boring. Apple doesn’t play that game.

the point is there is only this game left they're playing. they haven't redefined editing for market share?. the only question left is whether apple have any inclination to continue fighting the fights they were trying to leave six years ago. I'm beginning to think editing software is a hotel california and apple didn't get to leave.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Steve Connor
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 28, 2014 at 12:41:15 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "(say widening the audio meters or having interface presets? aren't those audio meters insane?) "

What do you mean widening them, surely you can already?


[Aindreas Gallagher] "and a bit of a rethink on the access and manipulation of animation keyframes."

That would be good


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Mitch Ives
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 28, 2014 at 2:54:17 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Apple might need to accept getting their hands dirty advancing X.
which goes back to the motivation problem: is there an apple team, hugely reduced, without pro-apps even on the mission statement, ready to play ball.

http://isachin.com/2011/06/30/why-apple-built-final-cut-pro-x/"


I actually think that article makes a lot of sense... in fact it seems like what Bill Davis has been saying since the beginning. I'm not sure I'm happy about that approach, but in the end, it is what it is...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Ronny Courtens
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 28, 2014 at 6:38:53 pm

... which goes back to the motivation problem: is there an apple team, hugely reduced, without pro-apps even on the mission statement, ready to play ball.

Short answer: yes, and they are extremely responsive and always open for suggestions. The mission statement is completely irrelevant to this.

- Ronny


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Bill Davis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 28, 2014 at 8:52:50 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Apple might need to accept getting their hands dirty advancing X.
which goes back to the motivation problem: is there an apple team, hugely reduced, without pro-apps even on the mission statement, ready to play ball."


Funny how the Adobe Mission Statement also fails to contain any mention of video editing.

Guess by your "mission statement metric" - video comes in at below the after through level for that organization as well?

How about AVID, what's up there? Do they ring the "video" bell for production professionals? Closest thing I could find is their Avid Anywhere statement - which again, does NOT mention video.

Sorry, Aindreas, our egos just have to take the blow. We're just not "special" anymore. Nobody seems to want to play with one-trick "video" pony's anymore.

Bummer, huh.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 28, 2014 at 10:01:09 pm

[Bill Davis] "Funny how the Adobe Mission Statement also fails to contain any mention of video editing.

Guess by your "mission statement metric" - video comes in at below the after through level for that organization as well?"


Both Adobe and Avid make mention of media creation which editing is obviously a part of. The perceived slight from Apple isn't the dropping of video editing (which was never explicitly mentioned to begin with) but the dropping of the term "professional applications".

Adobe - http://www.adobe.com/company.html
"...to create groundbreaking digital content, deploy it across media and devices, measure and optimize it over time, and achieve greater business success."

Avid - http://www.avid.com/US/about.html
"...enabling broadcast, video, and audio professionals..."


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 29, 2014 at 10:48:59 pm

yes. It's not like Apple can't do this - look at multi-cam or the power windows, or the half incredible inspector lead timeline instance audio manipulation behaviour - all that aside, recently it's like watching someone refrain from competition. Apple could pretty obviously kick seven kinds of ass depending on how inclined they are.

Even on keyframing - it feels like they're nibbling around the edges - why not just tear it up a little? On market metrics they've definitely got a user base that can take some experimentation. They're not supporting grannies and ten year olds with X - they've got a largely professional portion of what they had with 7 -

why not try to hit a ball pretty fast?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 29, 2014 at 11:26:39 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Apple could pretty obviously kick seven kinds of ass depending on how inclined they are."

Maybe there's a method to the madness... First few versions were all about getting the features working... multicam etc. Next few were bugs mostly. Then a big change to the the media management/Libraries. Then bugs related to that. What's that leave? Timeline. Who knows...



[Aindreas Gallagher] "recently it's like watching someone refrain from competition."

Meh... They've never spent time tooting their own horns. Maybe they should, but they don't.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 29, 2014 at 11:30:47 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "why not try to hit a ball pretty fast?"

Or just make the darn "send to Motion" work! The biggest single reason I see local clients move to Premiere is mainly because of the Dynamic Link integration with After Effects.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 12:28:52 am

apple might want to do something - realising parts of your cut can mainline into after effects from drag selecting specific chunks of the edit is slightly surreal.

for general purpose stuff at 1080p when I get back it seems to be - pretty much? - playing the stuff not caring at half res. and thats with multiple vignettes and masking with type stuff and other plugs.

madness this really: and quite a fiercely effective workflow.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 29, 2014 at 6:44:11 pm

Disciplines are merging, to be sure. To be honest there is not a single NLE out there that meets my needs totally. And if I'm going to be honest with myself that is not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. And, Bill, if I am not mistaken, a big point you are making is that these folks who make the tools with which we make our living do not derive a huge profit from NLE's but make most of their money from other parts of their businesses. If so, point taken.

Tim


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Bill Davis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 12:25:39 am

[TImothy Auld] "And, Bill, if I am not mistaken, a big point you are making is that these folks who make the tools with which we make our living do not derive a huge profit from NLE's but make most of their money from other parts of their businesses. If so, point taken.
"


Timothy, It's a subset of that point.

It's that we all work in a niche (Professional Video Production) that traditionally has been small and very much catered to as something central to the development and operation of prestige software. When only Hollywood and the Networks played in the space, the priests of the realm were "special."

Now, video is everywhere and it's not tens of thousands of players with an interest in video production, it's millions. So any company looking to serve the new market has to do it differently than they served the older market.

Put more simply, you can't really service an industry based on $5000 camcorders and $300 software the way you can service an industry based on $100,000 studio cameras and multi-thousand dollars a year service contracts.

So a new model of everything is required. One that serves ever larger customer groups, rather than a small and comparatively technically sophisticated niche users.

The good news is that even while the market has undoubtedly cheapened and broadened, the quality of the actual imagery that the creative pro can deliver at an extremely modest price point has skyrocketed.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 12:52:12 am
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Sep 30, 2014 at 12:54:34 am

[Bill Davis] "rather than a small and comparatively technically sophisticated niche users.

The good news is that even while the market has undoubtedly cheapened and broadened, the quality of the actual imagery that the creative pro can deliver at an extremely modest price point has skyrocketed."


in fairness: if that's not true, what is?

240 fps mobile telephones?



again - for posterity: 240 fps mobile telephones?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Tim Wilson
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 2:27:56 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "again - for posterity: 240 fps mobile telephones? "









(Also by way of noting that, in response to a number of member requests, the COW now supports animated gifs!)


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 2:41:24 am

[Tim Wilson] "in response to a number of member requests, the COW now supports animated gifs!)"

NOOOOOOO!!!!! lol

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 3:00:06 am

[Charlie Austin] "NOOOOOOO!!!!"

Obviously you meant:



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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 3:52:39 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Obviously you meant:"

lol Yes. What took you so long? :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 10:30:03 pm

Good points all. I just stumble down the road and try to find something that will do even half of what I want it to do. And most of what a want is mundane, everyday stuff that is just not available (Can't feather the edge of a wipe in Adobe PP CC 2014. What the hell?) On the other hand there is a thousand times more capability available at a hundreth of the price now as compared to 15 years ago. (And, as a colleague recently pointed out to me Adobe PP CC 2014 has a killer sharpen filter - that's worth 10 of the 300 picadillos I have to work around.)

Tim


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 30, 2014 at 10:32:11 pm

Sorry, meant peccadillos. Whatever has become of my vocabulary? Though I am getting hungry for some really spicy piccadillo.

Tim


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 6:10:01 pm

Another example is Lightworks. Look how long it has taken them to get a stable version for Mac and that's starting from an existing product. In addition, not everything inside FCP "legacy" was owned by Apple. Some of it was licensed and that would either have to be licensed again or built from scratch. That's part of the reason things like EDL and OMF export don't exist in FCP X.

I would say that doing a brand new professional-grade NLE from scratch (not modifying a currently working product) would take 3-5 years, before you'd have a solid product. That's with a brilliant set of coders on board.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Mathis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 7:26:37 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I would say that doing a brand new professional-grade NLE from scratch (not modifying a currently working product) would take 3-5 years, before you'd have a solid product. That's with a brilliant set of coders on board."

Agreed. I think during that time period FCP X was growing and becoming a more established NLE, it has come a very long way. I think another a year or so it will be even more solid.

Looks like this is what is going on with Resolve as well, though editing features have been added in the last 2 or 3 versions to an already existing product. All of which is why I think in the next version or so it could be a nice mixture of FCP 7, FCP X and Color all in one package. I sincerely hope Fusion stays as a separate application and does not get "blended" into Resolve. Otherwise there will be a steep learning curve and a awkward looking interface.

Oliver, would love to hear your thoughts on Lightworks and the direction it might take. As always, thank you for your contribution and comments.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 8:28:29 pm

[David Mathis] "would love to hear your thoughts on Lightworks and the direction it might take"

I haven't really played with it myself, yet. I have looked at earlier versions and know the folks at EditShare. It's a very solid NLE with a lot of heritage, but it is designed for cutting and not necessarily all the things we expect of an all-in-one NLE these days. I don't realistically see it garnering a large market share.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Mathis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 25, 2014 at 8:41:16 pm

Thank you. Have been interested in learning it myself, curious about the export features. Looks very solid as you say. Been watching a few YouTube videos on it and seems to have fairly mild learning curve.


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Shawn Miller
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 12:48:48 am

[Oliver Peters] "I would say that doing a brand new professional-grade NLE from scratch (not modifying a currently working product) would take 3-5 years, before you'd have a solid product. That's with a brilliant set of coders on board."

Well, yeah... brilliant developers (UX, XD, etc.)... and testers... and project managers... and PMO person(s)... and support... and documentation... IOW, a really dedicated team of folks who know how to design, build, test, support and market software. It's a tough, tough business in a market with demanding users that (increasingly) expect world class software at a very low price points. (Warning, rhetoric ahead) Who would (or can) pay millions of dollars to develop a product that has to compete with really good, cheap, and or free products?

Shawn



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Shane Ross
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 1:49:53 am

Can't help but notice that the OP has yet to come back and reply. Seems like a troll stirring the pot needlessly.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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James Ewart
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 6:21:11 am
Last Edited By James Ewart on Sep 26, 2014 at 9:29:57 am

My FCP7 is running fine on a sacrificial machine running Yosemite Beta incidentally. Are the updates still available online if you install from disk out of interest?

The UK and London in particular were about the last people in the world to adopt FCP Legacy. (Slated for years as unprofessional by the Avid community until one day suddenly everyone was using it). Very conservative market with many creatives and producers not really up to speed with the idiosyncrasies of the various NLEs. They just believe what they hear from Avid and Premiere editors in pubs. Not to mention the age of the machines in some facilities which would not handle FCPX very well.

It's been said many times, the FCPX journey will mirror Legacy in so many ways.

But FCP7 dead? Not yet I don't think.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 11:37:36 am

[Shane Ross] "Can't help but notice that the OP has yet to come back and reply. Seems like a troll stirring the pot needlessly."

Exactly. Some folks must be very bored.

Personally I don't want someone to re-make FCP7. It's old and dead. Having just done a little work on Premiere, that just confirms my thoughts.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 1:31:16 pm
Last Edited By Herb Sevush on Sep 26, 2014 at 1:35:50 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Personally I don't want someone to re-make FCP7. It's old and dead. Having just done a little work on Premiere, that just confirms my thoughts."

Nobody wants to remake FCP7. The idea would be to make FCP8. And while I've come to like Ppro very much, it is not FCP8 - there are distinct differences in the way they are designed.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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James Ewart
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 4:22:13 pm

"Nobody wants to remake FCP7. The idea would be to make FCP8. And while I've come to like Ppro very much, it is not FCP8 - there are distinct differences in the way they are designed."

Out of interest what are the main things you have t change in your workflow/the way you think working in PP compared to FCP7?


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 10:37:42 pm

[James Ewart] "Out of interest what are the main things you have t change in your workflow/the way you think working in PP compared to FCP7?"

The difference is not so much workflow as timeline design concepts.

FCP is organized so that the defaults were more in line with my habits as an editor. Best illustration is the way they both copy and paste. In FCP the default is that if you select a file, then copy, then paste, you will paste back to the same track you started on - which is what I want to do the large majority of the time. In Ppro everything is based on what tracks have been targeted, so that I find myself targeting and untargeting various tracks constantly. FCP sort of assumed that whatever was on the uppermost track was active, with Ppro the lowest targeted track is the default. Both designs allow you to do what you want, it's just that the defaults in FCP were what I generally wanted and the same is not true with Ppro.

Another design difference is how they use audio tracks. Ppro loves to use specialized all-in-one audio tracks - a single stereo track that contains 2 channels, a single adaptive track that can contain all 6 channels of a surround mix. What it doesn't let you do easily is use single channel tracks combined to create a stereo mix. In FCP a track is a track is a track - you can externally combine 2 to form a stereo pair, you can split them and have 2 mono tracks and do anything else you want - you don't have to think about how you want to arrange your timeline before hand. Now to be fair Ppro will adapt any track to the media you throw at it, but the overall design is less open to start with.

Same goes for setting up cache folders and preview folders - it is more complicated in PPro. Not by much, it doesn't stop me from using it, but it is not as open a system.

Now I do love many of the specific tools in PPro, the audio track mixer, scaling is much better, keyframing is better, but with Ppro I sometimes feel like I'm running against the wind, whereas with FCP I often felt the wind at my back. This may change over time, I don't doubt it will, but for now I often find myself wistful for the FCP8 that never was.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 27, 2014 at 1:12:09 pm

Hi Herb,

your words remind me of a editing teacher in a film school in Belgium, who even got an oscar nomination for his sound-editing on a foreign film, who said he liked X, and said: "in the beginning I didn't really like the automatic nature of the magnetic timeline, but after working with it, I have to admit that it always guessed correctly what I wanted to do."

I'm sure you probably wouldn't agree with that, but I do think that Apple, much more then Adobe, thinks about how people use their software, and what they WANT to do with specific actions. I think this holds true for both their OSX, iOS, ProApps and Consumer Apps. You could always want better, but there is a reason people look to Apple as masters of User Interfaces.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 29, 2014 at 11:54:57 pm

[Herb Sevush] "keyframing is better, "

that might yet stand as the understatement of the century.



http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Mathis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 3:47:57 pm

After getting to know FCP X, I really don't miss FCP 7 as much, even the tracks. I do miss "Send To Motion", though.


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Josh Cook
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 8:13:56 pm
Last Edited By Josh Cook on Sep 26, 2014 at 8:30:08 pm

Dude, I'm not stirring the pot needlessly. I've been on a deadline and can't keep up with the thread that this question bore. I only asked it after looking around for a previous discussion on it and not finding any. And it was out of frustration, because even though I'm trying to deal with the fact that FCP7 is dead and that I need to move on to a program like PPro, I never get hired for it! They're still using FCP7 and all the training the Lynda put in my head on PPro a year ago is dribbling out! Which lead me again to ask - why can't the people just have what they want - FCP7 forever!?!


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James Ewart
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 27, 2014 at 8:39:36 am
Last Edited By James Ewart on Sep 27, 2014 at 11:10:10 am

What's to stop you continuing to use FCP7?

It still works fine. In Mavericks and Yosemite.

It's just that most of us feel FCPX is an improvement. A better way of working. And for those that don't agree there are still PP and FCP7. Or avid MC if you are that way inclined.

But it does involve investing time in learning a new bit of software.


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Justin Ferar
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 8:13:18 pm

I've been playing around with it too (resolve 11.1). I still get flaky playback working with ProRes on the NLE (MacPro 6 core 3.33).

I hope it gets smoother in the next revision because I really, really, really, like what I see. I especially like the audio key framing and gain adjustments.



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David Mathis
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 28, 2014 at 5:18:43 pm

[Justin Ferar] "I hope it gets smoother in the next revision because I really, really, really, like what I see. I especially like the audio key framing and gain adjustments."

I also love the trimming features. This has been one short fall of FCP X as is key framing in general. The flip side of the coin, however, is that you can build custom transitions, generators, titles and effects inside of Motion for use in FCP X. Resolve is improving but I honestly think FCP X is better suited for finishing.


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Mitch Ives
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 4:18:49 pm

[David Mathis] "I am ruining Resolve on a older mid 2012 Mac Pro. Could explain my experience."

It's different on a new MP... still needs work, but it isn't as bad as I keep reading on this forum...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 26, 2014 at 4:41:34 pm

[Mitch Ives] "still needs work, but it isn't as bad as I keep reading on this forum..."

The current version is much better than before. Still a little jumpy/touchy, but improved.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 27, 2014 at 1:57:42 pm

[Josh Cook] "How many forum posts have you read in the past decade about reluctantly switching to Premiere, Avid or (gasp) FCPX?"

I'd suggest going to the following link, scroll to the bottom, and then work your way up.

https://forums.creativecow.net/directory/finalcutprox/2011-04-01_to_2011-07...

It'll ruin your deadline so, mind the gap.


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James Ewart
Re: FCP7 is dead. Why can't there be a new FCP7?
on Sep 27, 2014 at 5:06:24 pm

I had a quick butcher's at the Premiere thread the other day and was surprised by how many gripes there seem to be.


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