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Aindreas Gallagher
counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 20, 2014 at 10:13:38 pm

https://www.apple.com/pr/bios/

half interesting surely. Burberry is currently at the right hand of luxury CEO God. Even Ive is on the second floor.

at the lower level paul deneve is first among equals.

Paul Deneve is vice president of special projects at Apple, reporting to CEO Tim Cook.
Paul returned to Apple in 2013 after serving as CEO of luxury fashion house Saint Laurent Paris.


why, exactly, was pro apps struck dead from the core apple statement again?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 20, 2014 at 10:19:34 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "half interesting surely. Burberry is currently at the right hand of luxury CEO God. Even Ive is on the second floor.

at the lower level paul deneve is first among equals."


Or, after Cook they could just be listed alphabetically. Nah... too simple. Also, Ahrendts is to Cooks left. Gotta be a message there somewhere. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 20, 2014 at 10:25:46 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Sep 20, 2014 at 10:33:17 pm

as my gob gently hits my palm - er, of course. i'm an idiot. still tho still.

just take it broadly as meant charlie - what do you actually think of the make up?

edit - ok I guess kevin lynch is in there - but it's a thing the current board chose to excise what they did off the core statement. It's impossible to think they weren't involved in the removal. that would be some crazy fly on the wall.


http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 20, 2014 at 10:41:12 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Sep 20, 2014 at 10:51:13 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "what do you actually think of the make up?"

I do understand what you're saying, but I honestly don't think it's some big shift. Ahrendts came in to revamp retail. The luxury guy probably did come in to ramp up the watch stuff. I just don't think any of this portends a big sea change. They just want in an a new market, and they intend to own it. We'll see if it works I guess.

Removing pro apps from the blurb doesn't worry me either. I think the line between Pro and Not Pro Apps is becoming veerry blurry anyway. You can cut youtube cat videos and feature films on FCP X. It's neither Pro nor Amateur. It's an app that anyone, at any level can use. Again... we'll see. Maybe they'll switch the Texas Mac Pro line over to watches. ;-)


EDIT: I also think there's a lot more to the watches than what they've talked about. I think the reveal was all about preventing leaks. They've said "here it is!". They can't lock down the manufacturers and prevent leaks. The software is another story... We really don't know exactly what it's gonna do...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 20, 2014 at 11:26:44 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Sep 20, 2014 at 11:33:08 pm

[Charlie Austin] "EDIT: I also think there's a lot more to the watches than what they've talked about. I think the reveal was all about preventing leaks. They've said "here it is!". They can't lock down the manufacturers and prevent leaks. The software is another story... We really don't know exactly what it's gonna do...
"


no personally. i rather think this is say more the fcpx reveal: it actually is what it is. the only thing lacking is the reveal of the lack of OMF.
that watch is itemised on the site - what it is it largely is.

No transformative sense of fcpX was hidden at first demo. neither was any element of the iphone for that matter. it's just that the cook watch is stunningly less impressive.

If apple are going to have a real problem here it's with the fact that the watch largely is what it is - edit -

as in it feels a largely stupid superfluous object with its tongue laid out to the overtly wealthy to the exclusion of broad american society.
Cook definitely has the board installed to deliver that object.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 21, 2014 at 12:24:12 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "no personally. i rather think this is say more the fcpx reveal: it actually is what it is"

Well, that's fine then. FCP X kicks ass. :-) Again, we'll see.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "as in it feels a largely stupid superfluous object with its tongue laid out to the overtly wealthy to the exclusion of broad american society."

I'd agree if all they were making was the gold watch. But that's not all they're making at all is it? The Sport version is no more exclusive than an iPhone. They're relatively expensive as phones go. Yet broad american society seems to be quite able, and willing, to attain them.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 21, 2014 at 12:35:57 am

well they haven't been shown an apple gold phone quite yet.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 21, 2014 at 12:42:37 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "well they haven't been shown an apple gold phone quite yet."

True. But I'm pretty sure that if Apple made a solid gold, $10,000 phone tomorrow it wouldn't change the demand for the $650 to $850 (unsubsidized cost) versions. At all.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 21, 2014 at 1:18:27 am

I think you're very wrong there in terms of the social implications for apple.

But if that were true, then presumably solid gold laptops are next.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Phil Hoppes
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 21, 2014 at 3:08:34 pm

Why are your shorts in such a knot over this. The company finished 2013 with an annual revenue of 170 Billion dollars, 98.9% of which was in consumer products. (If you WAG "Pro" revenue, FCPX and MacPro's at 2 Billion dollars)

So their corporate statement and top management are from the consumer industry. This is a surprise????? Really????????


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 22, 2014 at 9:26:00 pm

as long as they stay honest to the mission and don't lose themselves in cartier accoutrements i suppose.

they have actually just made a solid gold ipod nano, with trimmings, from a few years ago attached to a likely 300+ dollar milanese loop strap.

seriously - would anyone like to read that last sentence again.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Phil Hoppes
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 22, 2014 at 11:12:11 pm

Come now Aindreas, you NEED one of those when you are driving around in one of these looking for places to take pictures with one of these?


Doesn't everybody do this? ;-)


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Marcus Moore
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional software.
on Sep 22, 2014 at 3:50:09 am

I think Apple is being cagey on the Apple Watches functionality because they don't want to give the fast-followers time to react before it launches next spring. At the same time they had to do a hardware reveal because (as the iPhone6 leaks prove) once the device starts into manufacturing in Asia, forget keeping it a secret.

The device may still prove to not be a boon for the company, but we may not know that for at least a few years.

But I'm willing to wager it's not going to be another iPhone- NOTHING is going to be another iPhone. I don't think another market with that kind of growth potential exists right now.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 22, 2014 at 11:23:22 pm

this really has been coming.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/22/apple-software-updates...

Then they launched the horrible-looking Apple Watch, which does everything an iPhone can do, but more expensively and pointlessly, and on a slightly different part of your body. Only an unhealthily devoted Apple fanatic could bear to wear a Apple Watch, and even that poor notional idiot would have to keep putting their iPhone down in order to operate the damn thing.

Zola-esque consumer level savagery in the main piece.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 22, 2014 at 11:33:18 pm

There's no surer way to get clicks than a Apple hit piece. Oh, I have to upgrade my phone's OS... woe is me...

As for the watch- I remember equally savage articles about Macs, iPods, the iTunes Store, the iPhone and the iPad over the last 15 years. Let's let history be the judge, shall we?


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 12:17:35 am

Charlie Brooker has largely refrained to now. And he really doesn't need the clicks - he's black mirror sure (it's great writing). he hands pieces off to the guardian on his own timetable now. And he rather is headbutting apple.

say this is a new lcd honeycomb of the same apps that are on your phone - that is in your hand - humming on your wrist.

he argues addiction:

"Part of the problem is that smartphones are so horribly addictive, as moreish as smoking. but a smartphone steals your time in the present moment, by degrees. Five minutes here. Five minutes there. Then you look up and you’re 85 years old."

if you look, there is stuff out there on cutting edge iOS San Fran app groups exploiting addictive user app behaviours and rewarding them with animation responsiveness - you could wonder about FB mobile flirting with flagging anything new with red stamps not even associated with you when you enter the mobile app.

and then you look at that watch, and the butterflies, and the heartbeats, and the narcotic tactile skin touch vibration cues and you really might wonder, given what they should know, what exactly apple are at, as social stewards, these days.

In essence: I'd wonder if they're more interested in measuring your heartbeat, or strumming your veins.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/fashion/steve-jobs-apple-was-a-low-tech-p...

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 12:28:32 am

Some example's of Charlie Brookers other thoughtful and considered commentary-

2010-
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/feb/01/ipad-therefore-iwant-w...

and

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jul/05/iphone-4-apple-new

2007

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/feb/05/comment.media

and his iPad 2 reaction for extra emphasis







In short, this guys is about as one note as they get. He's in it for notoriety of being steadfastly anti-Apple.

Bravo!


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 12:46:33 am
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Sep 23, 2014 at 1:01:28 am

well - I bow. so let's all try it again:

"Part of the problem is that smartphones are so horribly addictive, as moreish as smoking. but a smartphone steals your time in the present moment, by degrees. Five minutes here. Five minutes there. Then you look up and you’re 85 years old."

if you look, there is stuff out there on cutting edge iOS San Fran app groups exploiting addictive user app behaviours and rewarding them with animation responsiveness - you could wonder about FB mobile flirting with flagging anything new with red stamps not even associated with you when you enter the mobile app.

and then you look at that watch, and the butterflies, and the heartbeats, and the narcotic tactile skin touch vibration cues and you really might wonder, given what they should know, what exactly apple are at, as social stewards, these days.

In essence: I'd wonder again if Apple are interested in measuring your heartbeat, or simply being allowed to strum on your veins?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/fashion/steve-jobs-apple-was-a-low-tech-p...

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 1:21:13 am

The commentary about addictive nature of these devices is no more or less relevant than when it was about computers, or video games, or TV, or Rock 'n Roll music, or gambling, or alcohol, or even books!

There will always be people who by nature are more susceptible to go overboard with these things. And there are people who are in it to make money off those people.

Even if you just look at the people who might buy an Apple Watch, the stylistic flourishes that Apple has put into screens like the butterfly will appeal to some people and not others. And if you don't like it you can use another less bothersome watch face.

Some people might just like an Apple Watch because they think it's a great fitness device, much easier to run with than a 4.7" cel phone. And as I get more serious with running, it could be appealing to me. But it might not, it's too early to say, since it hasn't even been released yet.

Let's wait 'til then, or perhaps even a bit after that, to hold the Apple watch up as Satan or a pariah of tech indulgence, shall we?


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Andrew Kimery
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 2:23:34 am

[Marcus Moore] "Some people might just like an Apple Watch because they think it's a great fitness device, much easier to run with than a 4.7" cel phone. And as I get more serious with running, it could be appealing to me. But it might not, it's too early to say, since it hasn't even been released yet."

AFAIK the Apple Watch doesn't have GPS so it's stand alone use as a fitness tool will be limited w/o being 'tethered' to an iPhone.

Someone, I can't remember who, brought up that the Apple Watch is unique among Apple's mobile offerings in that it is the first one that doesn't condense/consolidate the functionality of other devices into a single device. The Watch, at least this generation, must go with an iPhone. It's another gadget your have to have with you and take care of.

By contrast the iPod consolidated carrying around a CD player + a wallet full of CDs. The iPhone gets you everything from GPS to email to music to the web in one device. iPads replaced laptops as the on-the-go device of choice for many people as well as became great media consumption devices.

Given Apple's track record I'm not going to say the Watch is going to do ho-hum business (even if it sucks it will mint money just because it's from Apple) but previous devices seemed to do a small amount of things compared to the competition but they did those small amount of things very, very well. When Cook talked about sending 'taps' or heartbeats to your friends and loved ones it just sounded to me like they were trying really hard to pad the Watch's feature set.


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Charlie Austin
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 2:50:26 am

[Andrew Kimery] "The Watch, at least this generation, must go with an iPhone. It's another gadget your have to have with you and take care of.
"


I don't think we really know what the watch is capable of. What they announced and what it'll do when released may be very different. Or not. We'll see in a few months.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 2:56:44 am
Last Edited By Marcus Moore on Sep 23, 2014 at 2:57:20 am

[Andrew Kimery] "When Cook talked about sending 'taps' or heartbeats to your friends and loved ones it just sounded to me like they were trying really hard to pad the Watch's feature set."

He also teased a bunch of functionality around home automation, entertainment, and fitness at the end of the presentation that they didn't go into further.

As I said before, just like with the iPhone, they had to "announce" the product before it went into even limited production or it would have been outed by the FCC or component leaks from China factories.

When this thing is read for launch next spring, there'll be a second half to this presentation- not only with all the stuff they didn't want to talk about a couple weeks ago, but also everything that 3rd party developers have cooked up in 6 months. The initial iPhone had no appStore, and it's only since it came along that the real potential of the device has been realized. Apple can create the platform, but ultimately I think they're as curious as anyone to what functional path products like the iPad, and now the Apple Watch will ultimately take.

Even without a GPS, with the other sensors inside it will keep good track of a run. I can only imagine the juggling act with something this small for battery life (which we still don't know). I'm sure a GPS will appear eventually as power/battery barriers erode. Let's not forget all the things iPhone, iPad, and iPods didn't have in their first incarnation.

No one is forced to jump on with a V1 product.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:49:19 am

[Charlie Austin] "I don't think we really know what the watch is capable of. What they announced and what it'll do when released may be very different. Or not. We'll see in a few months."

You are correct, but Cook specifically said it has to be paired w/an iPhone. The Watch is currently an iPhone add-on, not a stand alone product.


[Marcus Moore] "He also teased a bunch of functionality around home automation, entertainment, and fitness at the end of the presentation that they didn't go into further."

He did, but I wonder how much of that will be functionality the Watch has all by itself and how much will be functionality that requires the iPhone and the Watch is basically a wrist-mounted display. The Watch lacks GPS, WiFi and cellular so it's essentially an offline device unless coupled w/an iPhone.


[Marcus Moore] " Let's not forget all the things iPhone, iPad, and iPods didn't have in their first incarnation."

Even later in life these products didn't win the feature comparison war but that didn't matter because they killed it with their core functionality and industrial design.

I really hate to use this phrase 'cause I feel like it's beaten to death but here I go anyway... You could tell Jobs had a vision for the products he launched and if you didn't agree w/that vision you should just go buy a competing product. W/the Apple Watch it seems like Apple took the shotgun approach and

I'm sure not having Jobs' stage presence is part of the problem because, honestly, how many people could get on stage and genuinely use the term "magical" to describe a tablet computer and have everyone watching believe it? Dude could sell a lighter to someone in hell and make them think it was the greatest thing ever.

The form factor of a watch is very limiting so I'm not surprised there it's a big challenge when it comes to features and battery life. I'm sure later versions will improve as fast as the underlying technology allows but as an end user contemplating a purchase I'm more concerned w/what's going on now vs what may or may not be going on with V2, V3, V4, etc.,.


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 3:34:18 pm

The iPhone is required for SOME functionality, just how much we don't know yet. It obviously doesn't have a cellular radio, so no phone calls or text messaging to non-Apple devices.

It does have WiFi. It can hold it's own music. It has BluetoothLE. You can use it for Apple's mobile payment system ApplePay without the phone. So it doesn't need to be paired with the iPhone at all times. You can use iMessage on it as long as you're on WiFi.

I don't think this is any less of a standalone device than the iPod was when it had to be paired with a Mac, in many ways it's more independent that that at the outset.

I just really rebel against the quick judgements and the VERY prominent attitude that people, and especially tech reporters like the one Aindreas noted above seem to have which is, "if its not for me its not for anyone.".


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Andrew Kimery
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 4:07:39 pm

[Marcus Moore] "It does have WiFi. It can hold it's own music. It has BluetoothLE. You can use it for Apple's mobile payment system ApplePay without the phone. So it doesn't need to be paired with the iPhone at all times. You can use iMessage on it as long as you're on WiFi.

Thanks for the clarification. Apple's site doesn't give specific hardware specs yet and it keeps saying things like "And it uses the GPS and Wi‑Fi in your iPhone to track how far you’ve moved." which lead me to believe that the Watch lacked both GPS and Wi-Fi.


I don't think this is any less of a standalone device than the iPod was when it had to be paired with a Mac, in many ways it's more independent that that at the outset.


Apples to oranges comparison. The iPod came out before everything was a connected device, but even then once the music was on the iPod it functioned 100% as a stand alone device.


I just really rebel against the quick judgements and the VERY prominent attitude that people, and especially tech reporters like the one Aindreas noted above seem to have which is, "if its not for me its not for anyone.".
"


I'm not going off the deep end like the guy Aindreas linked to, but there are certainly aspects of the Apple Watch that I'm disappointed with. Due to currently technology constraints it looks like all smart watches right now are compromised devices.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 4:10:03 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I just really rebel against the quick judgements and the VERY prominent attitude that people, and especially tech reporters like the one Aindreas noted above seem to have which is, "if its not for me its not for anyone."."

I don't have a problem with the Watch. I think there's some cool technology, I really like that they are playing with pressure points on the screen instead of "just" a touch screen. If you're interested, tracking health is a big deal, I even understand having another access point to Apple technology that doesn't involve whipping an iPhone 6 Mas Grande out of your pocket.

Apple moves slowly with brand new products. Usually, there are other products that do more, cost a little less, and sell more volume. Such is life at Apple, this is nothing new, and there is really nothing to be concerned about.

But what I don't like is the gold.

I just don't like it.

A projected $5000 (or more?) gold watch that does the same thing, (I mean exact same thing) as the "Starting at $349" watch seems overtly ridiculous. The battery will die just as soon, the screen will wear out just as fast, the end of life will come just as suddenly. And then you have to go buy another $5000 watch?

What is different about the Steve Jobs era and the post Steve Jobs era, is that Jobs had the idea for OSX and devices like the iPad decades before technology and manufacturing could support it. To Jobs, it was magical, to have these ideas sketched out for decades, and then get to present the working prototype to the world, and in the case of OSX, start giving it away. There isa bit of magic in there.

But, an ostentatious solid gold watch? Please.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/how-steve-jobs-love-of-simplicit...

“Eichler did a great thing,” Jobs told me on one of our walks around his old neighborhood, which featured homes in the Eichler style. “His houses were smart and cheap and good. They brought clean design and simple taste to lower-income people.” His appreciation for Eichler-style homes, Jobs said, instilled his passion for making sharply designed products for the mass market. “I love it when you can bring really great design and simple capability to something that doesn’t cost much,” he said as he pointed out the clean elegance of the Eichlers. “It was the original vision for Apple. That’s what we tried to do with the first Mac. That’s what we did with the iPod.”


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 4:24:47 pm

I'm not sure why people are so up in arms about Gold watches.

Expensive watches that don't keep any better time than a $20 Casio are the norm in this world. Watches are 25% timepiece and 75% jewellery.

People only have one wrist to use use for a watch. Make no mistake- Apple is competing for that space with everyone else, regardless of which price-point you're talking about. If the functionally of this device is compelling enough then it makes it attractive to people who are used to buying gold watches for tens of thousands of dollars. Apple would be silly to not offer a product option for that market.

The schism is that traditional high end watches retain or even increase in value over time, while the Apple Watch is likely to be upgraded every year or every few years- outdating the old one. But again people with money... have money.

I stand by my assertion of "not for you but for someone else". I'm not rich, but there's are tens of millions of people out there who are, and if Apple wants to offer a product specifically tailored to that market its no skin off my nose. No more than someone who's using an iMac should be cheesed off about how much my MacPro costs. Yes, my machine is faster functionally, but in high end fashion material is equally valuable.

If I can get the same function for less money, I care not at all.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:13:17 pm

[Marcus Moore] "If I can get the same function for less money, I care not at all."

This isn't about getting the same function for "less money", this is adding a gold smelting operation to the device for considerably more money.

It doesn't really sit well with me. Perhaps I need to get over myself.

This has nothing to do with the function of the Watch.

I'm a big fan of Apple, but this feels odd to me, even though I like the possibility of the tech inside of the Watch.


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:22:08 pm

I think it's just a different market than any Apple has played in. They have to straddle the world of fashion in a way they never have before- the very bottom end of the watch market is pretty eroded because everyone has a cel phone. So they need to address 2 kinds of people-

1. People who aren't currently wearing a watch. What functionality can they present to make it attractive to put something on your wrist. For many people under 25-30, perhaps for the first time EVER.

2. People who currently like and wear watches. Here they have to compete equally on both function AND style. I don't think people who like Rolex or Omega will wholesale drop what they're currently wearing- unless the utility of the Apple Watch becomes so compelling that it outweighs the cache of the pure style of those brands.

I agree completely it's different. But it's a different market. Let's not forget that there are very successful companies out there that will gold-plate existing Apple devices for this crowd. As crazy as that seems.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:38:02 pm

[Marcus Moore] "I think it's just a different market than any Apple has played in. They have to straddle the world of fashion in a way they never have before- "

Do they have to? I don't think they have to. Certainly, they wanted to, and that difference is weird to me.

[Marcus Moore] "I agree completely it's different. But it's a different market. Let's not forget that there are very successful companies out there that will gold-plate existing Apple devices for this crowd. As crazy as that seems."

I'm not sure if you read this article, but the very first thing talked about is gold plated (android) phones:

http://daringfireball.net/2014/09/apple_watch

So, Apple has to compete with Vertu, and TAG, and Rolex?


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:47:19 pm

I think the watch market is currently weighted more heavily towards the high end, which is why I think Apple is extending the product that far up market.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:56:54 pm

But that's part of my dilemma. This isn't a watch.


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:01:35 pm

But it has to compete with watches. Everyone who wears watches. For whatever reason they wear them. Utility or fashion.


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James Ewart
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:06:13 pm

I don't wear a watch. I will wear an apple watch!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:09:27 pm

[Marcus Moore] "But it has to compete with watches. Everyone who wears watches. For whatever reason they wear them. Utility or fashion."

I understand that difference, but I don't think Apple HAD to do it anymore than they have to make gold phones.

Apple are pretty decent at marketing. They could have just as easily said that this wasn't a watch, and made it all their own. They didn't.


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Marcus Moore
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:19:06 pm

I'll say it again. Competing for the same space.

And it is a watch; but with a bunch of other stuff. Exactly the same way that an iPhone compares to a straight up cel phone.

The distinction is that the watch market is different than the phone market, the computer market, and the music player market. Fundamentally, it's skewed more towards fashion and taste (or at least the assumption of those things).

Gold watches are a more important part of the watch market in a way that high $$$ versions of computers, phones, tablets, etc. never have been.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:28:22 pm

I completely understand your point of view. I know that Apple is honoring watch enthusiasts on some level, but I think the Starting at $349 watch would have done just the same.

Tim Wilson also thinks I'm a fool for not "understanding" this new Apple ethos.

I guess we will agree to disagree on this one!


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 8:06:07 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "“Eichler did a great thing,” Jobs told me on one of our walks around his old neighborhood, which featured homes in the Eichler style. “His houses were smart and cheap and good. They brought clean design and simple taste to lower-income people.” His appreciation for Eichler-style homes, Jobs said, instilled his passion for making sharply designed products for the mass market. “I love it when you can bring really great design and simple capability to something that doesn’t cost much,” he said as he pointed out the clean elegance of the Eichlers. “It was the original vision for Apple. That’s what we tried to do with the first Mac. That’s what we did with the iPod.”
"


that's a killer quote.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Tim Wilson
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 9:02:55 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "that's a killer quote."

It's also entirely untrue.

The Mac was among the most expensive personal computers at the time. It was most definitely NOT intended as a mass market product, nor was it a mainstream product at Apple.

Apple's mainstream development and marketing was on the Apple II, which absolutely WAS a mass market product, and held a market share that Mac has yet to achieve more than half of.

Clean and simple, yes, but his ability to rewrite his own story on the fly was unparalleled. It was so common that the people around him came up with a name for it: the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field. The term certainly came to represent other things, including Steve's motivational abilities and general charisma....but it doesn't change for a minute that he'd make this stuff up about himself to suit whatever he wanted you to think about him at the time.

He used it repeatedly over the years to simultaneously piss on what his competitors were doing, while providing aircover for himself to do it later. It served the additional function of getting the people who loved him to NOT buy these features from other people, but to instead wait for Apple to provide them.

The first example was in fact the original Mac, introduced in black and white on a 9-inch screen, despite the fact that larger, color screens were already common. Graphic artists don't want to work in color, Steve said, so there was no color Mac. Graphic artists want to work on a screen about the width of a piece of paper. Needless to say, immediately after being fired from Apple, the computer company he started had ONLY color monitors, and much wider than a piece of paper.

Here are some others:

Just before Apple announced the iPad mini, Steve Jobs:

"[A 7-inch tablet] is meaningless unless your tablet includes sandpaper," Jobs said, "so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of their present size." He said 7-inch screens were actually 45 per cent the size of an iPad, which wasn't sufficient.

"Apple has done extensive user testing and we really understand this stuff," he added. "There are clear limits on how close you can place things on a touchscreen, which is why we think 10 inches is the minimum."


Of course, long before that, in 2003, he pissed on the idea of tablets at all.

It turns out people want keyboards. I mean, when I started in this business one of the biggest challenges was that people couldn’t type. And one day we realized that death would eventually take care of this. And so, people know how to type now. And if you do email of any volume, you gotta have a keyboard.

So we look at the tablet and we think it’s gonna fail.


The follow-up was maybe, but tablets are good for reading and he replied with one of my favorite quotes of his:

It’s really true, if you’ve got a bunch or rich guys who can afford their third computers. You know they’ve got their desktop, they got a portable, and now they got one of these to read with, that’s your market.

People accuse US of niche markets!


So not only does he want YOU, dear Apple customer, to think that tablets are a non-starter, he wants YOU, dear Apple customer, to think that people with tablets are hipster d-bags...until of course Apple releases one.

And another classic quote on why he didn't support video on the original iPod, when this was already common from other vendors.

It turns out that watching movies on a tiny screen isn't very much fun. The best way to watch movies is to buy a personal computer.


I'm certain that many of you Applephiles will retort that this was all strategic disinformation. Perhaps.

But the BIGGEST part of the smokescreen was aimed at YOU. The feature doesn't exist, and if it exists, is exclusively the domain of hyper-affluent d-bags with bad taste....until we bring it to you next year, when it will be yet another triumph of the Apple innovation you hold so dear.

A genius, yes, but, like many geniuses, maybe most geniuses, a self-aggrandizing borderline sociopath whose greatest creation is himself.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 10:43:33 pm

[Tim Wilson] "He used it repeatedly over the years to simultaneously piss on what his competitors were doing, while providing aircover for himself to do it later. It served the additional function of getting the people who loved him to NOT buy these features from other people, but to instead wait for Apple to provide them."

Video on the iPod was one of my personal favorites as was Jobs being dismissive of flash media in MP3 players (before Apple started using it though).

I think my all time favorite is when Jobs was interviewed by the NY Times and said the Kindle would be a failure because people didn't read any more (that was in 2008). The reason this one sticks out in my mind so much is because when Apple later released the iPad and Jobs was on stage talking about what a great eReader the iPad was he actually gave props to Amazon and the Kindle. Never thought I'd see that.


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Tim Wilson
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 9:09:00 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "that's a killer quote."

It's also entirely untrue.

The Mac was among the most expensive personal computers at the time. It was most definitely NOT intended as a mass market product, nor was it a mainstream product at Apple.

Apple's mainstream development and marketing was on the Apple II, which absolutely WAS a mass market product, and held a market share that Mac has yet to achieve much more than half of. And it had a color screen!

Is any mass market product a success if it hasn't reached the mass of the market? Maybe so, but it certainly flies in the face of Steve's later contention that Apple didn't want the biggest marketshare. He used BMW as his example of a company with only 3% market share whose success was indisputable.

Hmmmm...Apple like a luxury car maker. Perhaps one whose products represent a degree of status accorded by, among other things, their price. Hmmmm.....

Mac was clean and simple, yes, but his ability to rewrite his own story on the fly was unparalleled. It was so common that the people around him came up with a name for it: the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field. The term certainly came to represent other things, including Steve's motivational abilities and general charisma....but it doesn't change for a minute that he'd make this stuff up about himself to suit whatever he wanted you to think about him at the time.

He used it repeatedly over the years to simultaneously piss on what his competitors were doing, while providing aircover for himself to do it later. It served the additional function of getting the people who loved him to NOT buy these features from other people, but to instead wait for Apple to provide them.

The first example was in fact the original Mac, introduced in black and white on a 9-inch screen, despite the fact that larger, color screens were already common. Graphic artists don't want to work in color, Steve said, so there was no color Mac. Graphic artists want to work on a screen about the width of a piece of paper. Needless to say, immediately after being fired from Apple, the computer company he started had ONLY color monitors, and much wider than a piece of paper.

Here are some others:

Just before Apple announced the iPad mini, Steve Jobs:

"[A 7-inch tablet] is meaningless unless your tablet includes sandpaper," Jobs said, "so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of their present size." He said 7-inch screens were actually 45 per cent the size of an iPad, which wasn't sufficient.

"Apple has done extensive user testing and we really understand this stuff," he added. "There are clear limits on how close you can place things on a touchscreen, which is why we think 10 inches is the minimum."


Of course, long before that, in 2003, he pissed on the idea of tablets at all.

It turns out people want keyboards. I mean, when I started in this business one of the biggest challenges was that people couldn’t type. And one day we realized that death would eventually take care of this. And so, people know how to type now. And if you do email of any volume, you gotta have a keyboard.

So we look at the tablet and we think it’s gonna fail.


The follow-up was maybe, but tablets are good for reading and he replied with one of my favorite quotes of his:

It’s really true, if you’ve got a bunch or rich guys who can afford their third computers. You know they’ve got their desktop, they got a portable, and now they got one of these to read with, that’s your market.

People accuse US of niche markets!


So not only does he want YOU, dear Apple customer, to think that tablets are a non-starter, he wants YOU, dear Apple customer, to think that people with tablets are hipster d-bags...until of course Apple releases one.

And another classic quote on why he didn't support video on the original iPod, when this was already common from other vendors.

It turns out that watching movies on a tiny screen isn't very much fun. The best way to watch movies is to buy a personal computer.


I'm certain that many of you Applephiles will retort that this was all strategic disinformation. Perhaps.

But the BIGGEST part of the smokescreen was aimed at YOU. The feature doesn't exist, and if it exists, is exclusively the domain of hyper-affluent d-bags with bad taste....until we bring it to you next year, when it will be yet another triumph of the Apple innovation you hold so dear.

A genius, yes, but, like many geniuses, maybe most geniuses, a self-aggrandizing borderline sociopath whose greatest creation is himself.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 24, 2014 at 2:09:11 am

[Tim Wilson] "It's also entirely untrue."

[Tim Wilson] " the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field."

[Tim Wilson] "But the BIGGEST part of the smokescreen was aimed at YOU. The feature doesn't exist, and if it exists, is exclusively the domain of hyper-affluent d-bags with bad taste....until we bring it to you next year, when it will be yet another triumph of the Apple innovation you hold so dear.
"


There's no doubt the Jobs was a showman. I bet he was hard to work with, hard to follow, hard to please. I completely understand that there's a flip side to the coin. It's not perfect.

But if you strip all of that away and focus on what Apple became, and the products delivered, not on a feature by feature checkbox basis, but what was actually delivered, you see that Apple does offer competitively priced goods and services, usually in a well designed and well built package, along with a very decent user experience.

In my mind, no matter what you like or don't like about Jobs, the Joseph Eichler quote has some truth to it, even if it took Apple a while to get there. My view on this is much less maniacal, but it seems to me that's what Jobs wanted for Apple, and he eventually got it. Rose colored glasses, and all that.

Now, it's 9 hour crafted, hand rubbed, gold bracelets.


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Tim Wilson
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 24, 2014 at 3:36:47 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "the Joseph Eichler quote has some truth to it, even if it took Apple a while to get there."

That's not what Steve said. He said that's what he did when he introduced Mac. This was an out and out lie/reminaging/retelling/misremebering/remythologizing, WHATEVER. But not not not not true.

The only products for which it was ever true had an "i" in front, and to that extent, his statement expressed an aspiration...which is also not what he said, and begs the question of the extent to which he wanted even iMac to be for the masses, or the extent of his failure that it's not.

And I think very highly of iMac mind you. But the whole "for the masses" thing was him blowing smoke up his own skirt.


[Jeremy Garchow] "My view on this is much less maniacal,"

None of the facts I mentioned are in dispute. They're all Steve's words, and they're all in context. You can LIKE him more than I do, but those are in fact the words of an actual maniac in the clinical sense. Removing any pejorative sense of the word, but speaking as a former clinician, he was at LEAST hypomanic...and, as I mentioned, most geniuses are, if not hyPERmanic. Again not the least pejorative. Mentally stable people tend not to be revolutionaries.

I was merely calling Steve out for glibly reciting a myth of himself that never happened.

But as a self-aggrandizing borderline sociopath myself, I deeply admire him. I just wished that, unlike Steve, I'd been able to make some money from it. LOL


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 24, 2014 at 3:11:16 pm

[Tim Wilson] "That's not what Steve said. He said that's what he did when he introduced Mac. This was an out and out lie/reminaging/retelling/misremebering/remythologizing, WHATEVER. But not not not not true."

He said he "tried" to do it with the first Mac, and did it with the iPod. He didn't say he did it with the first Mac.

Again, Jobs was a showman. As far as I know, there isn't an old adage that says, show me a showman and I'll show you a truth sayer.

There's no doubt that much of the sales pitch is trumped and inflated, Jobs was not a diety, but I tend to believe that Jobs DID set out to achieve a version of the quoted goal, and the proof is in the products that were delivered. Apple could have set out to make shitty products at the cheapest prices just as easily.

If you remove Jobs' quotes from the discussion and look what happened with Mac products, prices, and popularity, (that is to say, look at the results) I would say that Apple did achieve putting well designed products at reasonable prices (not the cheapest) in the hands of as many people as they could.

Surely, Jobs used the Eichner analogy at an opportunistic time. Good show.

I see your point where he revised his own history, and yeah, perhaps Jobs was simply crazy. But, I also don't see literal gold blocks and 9 hour bracelets in Jobs' history, either.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 24, 2014 at 7:45:36 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "He didn't say he did it with the first Mac"

yes - but if you read the accounts of its creation - which I know you have, so this is for conversation - he was insane to make it a well designed affordable appliance. Emphasis on affordable appliance. he had them look at italian made cooking appliances for gods sake. That's why he refused to allow more than 128K of memory. For cost. his heart was in the right place. But he made his staff's lives a living hell trying to work miracles.

he tried to bend physics and economics on the first mac - because his overwhelming goal was to alter the experience of millions - with real typography, a revolutionary interface, ease of use - all the stuff everyone knows.

One of my favourite stories is that in later years he had a pretty bucolic home life with wife and children - and that one time he lead dinner table discussions on a proper washing machine for the house for weeks. That sounds like it could be boring, but I doubt he was a boring dinner party conversationalist.

Or how he would come out of the house like a kid when Larry Ellison, one of his closest friends, would drive around in an insanely expensive car. He'd laugh with him and coo over the car - but you never saw him indulge that kind of materialism.

I'm pretty sure he could be and was a monster to any number of people, but according to those that knew him, never to his family. He apparently reared pretty excellent empathic children and his wife looked to love him a lot.

And he would not have sanctioned that hand rubbed twice as hard as gold wrist bauble. he would have made the one device and charged what he felt was a proper price. He would have screamed at his entire staff for half a decade - stabbing at a whiteboard five times a week and throwing pens at them until he felt it was the thing it was actually supposed to be. I don't personally think that watch has a clear sense of what it is or what it is for.

And the gold one is a crass error - but we've both said that any number of times. Tim still believes it reveals the heart and soul of apple I think, but i'd argue the opposite. I personally think it goes against apple's marrow.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Andrew Kimery
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 24, 2014 at 8:18:37 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Or how he would come out of the house like a kid when Larry Ellison, one of his closest friends, would drive around in an insanely expensive car. He'd laugh with him and coo over the car - but you never saw him indulge that kind of materialism."

Expensive is relative but Jobs' signature ride was an Mercedes SL55 AMG. He famously leased a new one every six months so he never had to get a license plate for the car. He also had an aluminum-hulled, 260ft custom yacht built but it wasn't completed until after his passing.

There were certainly others that flaunted their wealth more, but Jobs certainly had some expensive, big boy toys.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 24, 2014 at 9:09:10 pm

sure - but you know what I mean. OK he went to buy a big boat in the end but he had plenty of weird contradictions. He went on a dollar salary for quite a few years after returning to apple, but when the board convinced him to accept compensation he demanded a staggering amount of money and it became incredibly awkward for everyone involved.

He respected the merc as a machine no more than the pianos he hung, and he liked the ride, also he was a near billionaire quite soon after college so...

also he lived for a long time in a house that had a lamp and a chair and absolutely nothing else. he was sure he liked the lamp and the chair, but he hadn't decided on anything else. The woman who designed all the icons for the mac went there and comforted him when he rang her out of the blue - i think after the death of one of his adoptive parents -

also he lived on oranges (or was it carrots?) for a period of months in his early twenties until his organs started to malfunction, pre-apple he would go for months without washing for a time when he was still kicking around, he named the lisa after a daughter he refused to legally recognise for decades - and he screwed many people he knew very intimately out of any compensation when apple went supernova - wozniak had to step in personally to make it right out of his own money - kottke is the worst example.

So sure he really really wasn't the nicest person on earth - but -

I truly don't think he was on any level the man for solid gold baubles in his stores with cartier style wrist straps. I think he would have thrown the board all out of the room screaming profanities for that notion. Surely the thing is that while it lived in his second incarnation Apple was effectively Job's id. Or he was its id.

The death can be over argued, but the manner of apple: the taste, the personality - the paranoia, the mania for details, the vindictiveness, the sometimes iphone level jaw dropping globally altering results - that's basically all him one way or another.

And that gold watch works as proof of his death, because it's definitely not him.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Harlan
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 6:25:41 am

The watch is interesting to me. I'll probably be getting the sports one. I like the idea of second screen functionality for exercise and the like.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 3:22:31 pm

[Chris Harlan] "The watch is interesting to me. I'll probably be getting the sports one. I like the idea of second screen functionality for exercise and the like."

I like the idea of second screen too I just wish it could be more an independent screen as well. As technology improves I'm sure the Watch will slowly lose its dependence on the iPhone and then I'll be more likely to pick one up. Kinda like w/the iPod, I held off getting one until the tech got to the point where there was one big enough to hold all of my music with room to grow and the price tag wasn't obscene.


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Chris Harlan
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 4:58:53 pm

I do a LOT of hiking and other various cross-training, and I've incorporated a bunch of gizmos into it. So, for me the watch is--if it integrates as well as it seems it might with things like my heart strap and fitbit (which it probably will replace)--kind of a cool reward/luxury. I'm not sure, though, why people who aren't similarly inclined would be particularly interested in getting one. As I say, for me its a definite reward, which improves things a bit, and not a necessity.


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James Ewart
Re: and Charlie Brooker decides to Headbutt Apple.
on Sep 23, 2014 at 5:16:44 pm

me too...love it but the waterproof/showerproof thing might be an issue. That said I already have one of these...


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Craig Alan
Re: counting the board members rooting for professional soft ware
on Sep 22, 2014 at 5:35:26 am

"why, exactly, was pro apps struck dead from the core apple statement again?"

Here's my take: aperture and iPhoto are now becoming one app. That's does not mean in apple's mind that pros can't use Photos app. It means it's not exclusively for pros. Why develop two apps when you can develop one and people can grow with it? Ms word is used by pros and nonpros. So was Fcp 1-7. The fact that's its easy to use on a simple level and it can grow with your skill level is a good thing. My only complaint in apple's approach was some of the dummy down vocab rather than making pro concepts accessible to beginners. No reason to have this wasteful divide between pro and consumer in many things we use. Most of the stuff they sell to consumers would be better served if they used pro standards. We would all be better cooks if we had pans that had good thick metal instead of thin crap that burns the food. Doesn't mean we make a living at it.

I think we've reached the agreement that Fcp x is a pro app. But my video Hs students can begin a rough cut after a quick two minute lesson. That's very cool . No threat to anyone here. By the time you rig out a computer with a ton of ram, external raids, high end graphic card, broadcast monitor, hours and years learning color correction and theory, knowing how to pace a story and use beats, etc etc etc then yeah your kinda like a pro if you can find paying gigs which a whole other skill set. Ok Fcp x at 300 bucks may seem like a lot when iMovie would do but it's been 300 bucks for a few years now. It's a pretty cool app for anyone that's wants to edit video. As long as features cont. to be developed for pros it's a win win and even pros got their start as nonpros. So right from the get go they were developing skills that would pay off later in their development. It's both and not either or.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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