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Devin Crane
Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 13, 2014 at 4:50:09 am

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/09/12/apples-iphone-6-iphone-6-plus-use...

Should be a snowball effect after this. Wonder when H.265 support will be added to FCPX and Compressor.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 13, 2014 at 3:20:11 pm

It'll help a bit but not as quickly as you might think.

For the sake of backwards and Android compatibility H.264 will be dominant for some time. Any distribution venturing into H.265 will have to encode both codecs and H.265 encoding is a huge resource hog at the moment... resources which would be only for iPhone 6 owners at the moment.

If Apple wants to push H.265 they'd have to hasten the upgrade process for all preexisting iPhones and iPads. That would either be a well instituted Apple trade in program or some way to make it an incentive for the carriers to do.

Some carriers are moving to a model in which one buys the phone and payments are spread out directly rather than the now traditional subsidized model. These programs allow for annual upgrades rather than every two years. The related question is how the carriers feel about data use vs data rate billing as H.265 is more efficient. If their data networks are saturated they'd like it. If they'd rather hope that people have overages so they run up their monthly bill, they may not.



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Marcus Moore
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 13, 2014 at 8:03:43 pm

Apple is most likely concerned about iTunes content delivery, so they're likely not worried about Android at all. Moving iTunes content to h.265 will undeniably be a process that takes years- so they might as well start now. This very likely means that an h.265 enabled AppleTV is on the way in the near future.

Also, I don't think Apple has to implement any special incentive program to turn over devices. In March of this year, Apple sold it's 500 millionth iPhone. Last year, Apple sold about 150 million iPhones. They'll likely sell between 150 and 200 million this year. It's unknown exactly what percentage of iPhones sold every year is upgrades to existing users- but my general impression is that most iPhone users are on a 2-3 year upgrade cycle anyways. When you consider that Netfix has reportedly 25 different encodes of each video for different devices and bandwidth speeds. Apple dual encoding both an h.264 and h.265 version of each movie and TV show doesn't seem such a huge deal.

Ever since I saw h.265 4K tests at NAB2013 I've been eagerly awaiting it's rollout to devices and services. Based on what I saw, it's going to make a huge difference in the problematic parts of current digital delivery; even at current HD resolutions, expect to see the blockiness in darker scenes and gradient skies entirely disappear.

Very exciting.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 13, 2014 at 8:20:22 pm

[Marcus Moore] "my general impression is that most iPhone users are on a 2-3 year upgrade cycle anyways"

Given the standard turnover every two years under contract it could take 3 years at least depending on where people are in their contract cycle. Keep in mind many people are still signing up with iPhone 5c and 5s so they'd have to turnover as well. Tablets might be even longer. They've still been selling iPad 2 up 'till this point.

[Marcus Moore] "Moving iTunes content to h.265 will undeniably be a process that takes years"

Yes it will for sure.


Apple's iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus use H.265 codec for FaceTime over cellular
http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/09/12/apples-iphone-6-iphone-6-plus-use...

H.265 technology, also known as High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC), for encoding and decoding FaceTime video calls over cellular.
...
Exactly how Apple is implementing H.265 is unknown at this time, but considering the feature is restricted to the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus, some speculate the new A8 SoC incorporates a specialized encoder/decoder module not present in older handsets. Further, Fleming points out that while Macs have the processing power to run software-based H.265 encoder/decoder solutions, portables usually require hardware integration.

Currently that would only iPhone 6 to iPhone 6 series. Phone companies would be supporting because it's lower data demands than H.264.

BTW although Macs have the processing power to do this, I don't doubt it will eventually get hardware assets as well and that will be a big impetus for people to upgrade Macs if you need to deliver H.265 professionally. Two years from now we may be doing a lot more H.265 encoding and that may well make the current MacPros very long in the tooth.



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Rick Lang
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 13, 2014 at 8:47:32 pm

Just a simple observation that change always takes time but it won't happen if it doesn't at least start. Apple is going to kickstart this which could lo lead to broad adoption within a few years.

The carriers will all love having video transfer with one half the effort because it means users will get their data twice as fast. And that's good because there must be a relationship between ease of acquisition by the end user and the frequency of use. To illustrate, if you were running a 300 baud modem and wanted to transfer a feature film and I told you it would take weeks, you might try it once and forget it. If I told you it would take less than a minute to transfer and you can watch it while it transfers, you may at least repeat the experience a few times subject only to the cost of the movie. Carriers won't see any significant drop in data usage as things get easier; they may even have pressure as users demand more and more over time.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Craig Seeman
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 13, 2014 at 9:13:52 pm

[Rick Lang] "Carriers won't see any significant drop in data usage as things get easier; they may even have pressure as users demand more and more over time."

That reminds of a highway and traffic analogy I once heard. The response to heavy traffic is often, build bigger highways. Amazingly once you build the bigger highway it just fills up with more cars and you're back into a traffic problem.

Carriers make money when people go over their data plans. On the other hand it's probably a lot less expensing to have more efficient delivery than building out greater capacity. I do think that data usage is climbing much faster than capacity build out though.

I think a big impetus will come from companies like Netflix since they may have capacity issues with various ISPs. I suspect they'd be highly motivated to move to H.265 and that would mean there'd strong motive for support in both AppleTV and Roku.

Netflix discusses move to H.265
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/Editorial/Featured-Articles/Streamin...

For us, even if we're just delivering files, faster internet file delivery but much longer encode times.

So very much on topic, how soon does Apple add H.265 to Compressor so we can deliver H.265 to a clients already cramped for space iPhone? On the enterprise level Telestream has already announced support in Vantage. I'm not sure about Episode or Sorenson's Squeeze yet. It'll be interesting to see where Adobe is on this as well.



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Rick Lang
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 13, 2014 at 11:51:17 pm

Craig, excellent comparison to vehicular traffic on freeways. Having lived in LA until recently, I saw that phenomena frequently while caught In it while commuting home each day. And these freeways carried a lot of vehicles quickly as long as there was no accident on the road. Any increase in capacity was soon consumed by increased demand.

As for H.265 encoding, with the release of iOS 8 and the iPhone 6 (with 150Mbps LTE), I suspect Apple will implement H.265 in FCP X and Yosemite this year if the codec is final. I haven't followed the codec lately, but if they have it in the A8 chip, it must be ready to include in their software.

Rick Lang

iMac 27” 2.8GHz i7 16GB


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Devin Crane
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 14, 2014 at 3:32:39 am

[Rick Lang] "As for H.265 encoding, with the release of iOS 8 and the iPhone 6 (with 150Mbps LTE), I suspect Apple will implement H.265 in FCP X and Yosemite this year if the codec is final. I haven't followed the codec lately, but if they have it in the A8 chip, it must be ready to include in their software."

To my understanding the codec is final, just working through the patents.



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Marcus Moore
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 15, 2014 at 6:24:27 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Given the standard turnover every two years under contract it could take 3 years at least depending on where people are in their contract cycle. Keep in mind many people are still signing up with iPhone 5c and 5s so they'd have to turnover as well. Tablets might be even longer. They've still been selling iPad 2 up 'till this point."

But it's a self-selecting group. People who are buying 5S and 5C phones now likely NOT heavy video watchers- it's the people who are on more aggressive 2 years cycles which are the ones who are downloading most of the content.

Regardless, there will be a long tail for existing h.264 encodes, as it won't be until any iPhone, iPad or aTV that need it will be completely out of use. 5-7 years on the outside. But the people who buy or rent the most content will be onto the new hardware long before then.


[Craig Seeman] "BTW although Macs have the processing power to do this, I don't doubt it will eventually get hardware assets as well and that will be a big impetus for people to upgrade Macs if you need to deliver H.265 professionally. Two years from now we may be doing a lot more H.265 encoding and that may well make the current MacPros very long in the tooth."

I'm anxious to do some h.264-h.265 encode test on my nMacPro. Unfortunately the Mac appStore version of VideoConverter Ultimate does not have h.265 encoding, though the one downloadable from their website does. It's cheesed me off actually- I've paid the same price for a less functional version of the app.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 15, 2014 at 7:04:30 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Sep 15, 2014 at 7:07:11 pm

[Marcus Moore] "But it's a self-selecting group. People who are buying 5S and 5C phones now likely NOT heavy video watchers- it's the people who are on more aggressive 2 years cycles which are the ones who are downloading most of the content."

I haven't seen any metrics to indicate viewing vs phone upgrades. I do know from my own YouTube channel people watch for longer duration with Tablets over phones by a very wide margin. I don't think people make their phone upgrades based on video watching. On the other hand they may based on photo and video recording since each new phone has camera improvements. I'd bet, for the time being, the iPhone 6 is still recording H.264.

[Marcus Moore] "I'm anxious to do some h.264-h.265 encode test on my nMacPro."

Keep in mind that early/first implementations on some third party encoders may be far from optimized.
Divx has H.265 implemented on Mac.
http://www.divx.com/en/software/technologies/hevc



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Marcus Moore
Re: Slightly OT: New iPhone supports H.265
on Sep 15, 2014 at 7:15:51 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I haven't seen any metrics to indicate that. I do know from my own YouTube channel people watch for longer duration with Tablets over phones by a very wide margin. I don't think people make their phone upgrades based on video watching. On the other hand they may based on photo and video recording since each new phone has camera improvements. I'd bet, for the time being, the iPhone 6 is still recording H.264."

I'm not arguing based on video watching, nor Phone vs tablet. I'm only saying that chances are people who are more likely to download and watch video (especially paid iTunes content), are probably more likely to be the ones upgrading to newer phones sooner. While people who buy year or two old hardware- like the 5s or 5c, are probably more casual users who only need more basic functionality.

Basically what I'm saying is that people who are more inclined to be heavy users are probably going to be the people who buy newer iPhones and iPads more frequently. Not BECAUSE of video, but just as a correlation. Almost no one will buy an iPhone6 because of h.265- but they'll reap the benefits.

Also, I think you will see a boost in sales of iPhones this year. Perhaps it's overblown, but the larger screen sizes seem to be something many have been waiting for on the iOS side.

This is my upgrade year, I always get the "prime" releases; 3G, 4, 5, and now 6- and skip the "s" releases.


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