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Blackmagic acquires Fusion

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Ronny Courtens
Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 8:39:15 am
Last Edited By Ronny Courtens on Sep 12, 2014 at 8:48:54 am

http://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/2015-blackmagic-s-purchase-of-eyeon-f...

When testing the editing capabilities on R11 I was underwhelmed, but I did feel a serious potential for Resolve to grow into a complete high-end finishing station for FCP X with some decent final editing capabilities included. Both applications not only look very similar, they also work remarkably well together. The only element lacking in this chain was compositing. It looks like BM will be filling this gap...

- Ronny


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Steve Connor
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 9:24:08 am

That's BIG news!


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Oliver Peters
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 12:28:52 pm

I wonder if we'll see a Mac version of Fusion by next year.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 12:40:00 pm

I think that would be the least we should expect. Given BM's tradition they will make the application cross-platform, then integrate the technology into Resolve. I would very much welcome a fully seamless approach a la Smoke, where you select clips in the timeline to open them in a powerful node-based compositing engine.

- Ronny


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Walter Soyka
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 1:27:06 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I wonder if we'll see a Mac version of Fusion by next year."

That timeframe would be a sign of heavy BMD investment, as the Fusion UI is highly dependent on some very old Windows code. The Linux version of Fusion runs on top of WINE.

A few random thoughts:

Fusion shows enormous potential. It's a nice application and I just bought a license myself a couple months ago. I assume that this expenditure I made indicates a pending BMD price drop. You're welcome (or not, see below).

BMD offering a product that cuts, conforms, composites and colors (the four Cs) puts enormous pressure on Smoke, just as NUKE STUDIO is turning up the heat on Flame. How will Autodesk respond?

Whether this increases or decreases competition remains to be seen. I hope that BMD charges at least something for this -- not to keep other users out of the market, but to keep other developers in it.

Just as every editor is now a colorist, every editor will now also be a compositor. The positive flipside of this is that the freelance talent pool for Fusion will grow enormously.

There's tremendous potential for workflow innovation, bringing compositing and color together.

I don't think this will affect institutional NUKE usage any time soon, unless BMD pours enormous resources into Fusion's extensibility and developer documentation.

What happens with Eyeon Connection for Media Composer? Fusion was used to extend Media Composer, but does this partnership still make sense now that Fusion is sold by a competitor?

If (when?) BMD buys Avid, it will be for Pro Tools, not Media Composer. Audio is the next piece of the puzzle. See my question above about whether this increases or decreases competition.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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David Mathis
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 2:27:31 pm

I would love to see how Adobe reacts as well. This could be the tip of the iceberg. Ya mean I don't need to subscribe to get high-end tools for my studio? :-)

camera operator | editor | production assistant

Remember kids, tracks are you friends when you charge by the hour. Track Tetris, game on!


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Walter Soyka
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 2:41:50 pm

[David Mathis] "I would love to see how Adobe reacts as well. This could be the tip of the iceberg. Ya mean I don't need to subscribe to get high-end tools for my studio? :-)"

Indeed -- but I do think that BMD's portfolio overlaps way more with Autodesk's M&E Creative Finishing tools than it does with Adobe's Creative Cloud.

I also think that subscription software is in part a response to the trend of ridiculously low-priced software such as provided by Apple and BMD -- a new way to try to price expensive specialist software competitively/affordably, while still being able to sustain development.

Apple and BMD lowering the price and perceived value of software is good competition in the short term that can make the industry better -- but if they lower the price and perceived value beyond the point where pure software companies can be competitive, it is a long-term danger to our industry. This would possibly require a cycle of existing competitors leaving the market, the disruptors becoming complacent, and new competitors arising to disrupt them by competing on quality and responsiveness. It'll all work out in the end, but there'd be pain in the middle.

The developers who write the tools we use to make our livings must also make theirs. Be careful what you wish for here!

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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David Mathis
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 3:24:38 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on Sep 12, 2014 at 3:38:11 pm

The second part of my post was a tongue and cheek response but you do have a very valid point here. As much as I am against a subscription only model a business often needs to take a risk of losing some of customers yet be bold in order to survive. It is just the nature of the beast. Sometimes it works sometimes it does not. Very interested in what your point of view is and you made a very valid argument.






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Shawn Miller
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 6:24:49 pm

This is very exciting news, though I doubt there will be a Mac version anytime soon. Walter's wise caveats aside (which I completely agree with), I think this could be a very good thing, as BMD is looking to expand support and engineering resources for Fusion (see Grant Petty's video off the BMD homepage at about the 22 min. mark). I think a wider user base (newly added Mac users) could give Autodesk and The Foundry some much needed pressure to delight the market (assuming Resolve continues to evolve its editing capabilities). I'm really interested to see what integration will look like between Resolve and Fusion.

Shawn



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Tim Wilson
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 7:41:31 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I'm really interested to see what integration will look like between Resolve and Fusion."

Integration, yes. Merging, I can't imagine even a little.

Although the list of things BMD has done that I wouldn't have imagined is pretty long.

For one, the two products are from different companies. It takes a lot longer than you'd think to sort that sort of thing out. More important though, despite the fact that are some people who need multiple tasks, Media Composer is never going to have Pro Tools "inside," any more than FCP had Motion "inside" or Premiere jas After Effects "inside." Merging codebases is hard enough. Merging interfaces is impossible. You'd have to bury things so deep that a modal interface would be the only solution, at which point you sacrifice flexibility and efficiency on all kinds of levels.

I know that there's a lot of excitement about anything free, and BMD's aggression in general, but node-based compositing has nothing to do with motion graphics. Even if it works as your new greenscreen tool of choice, it's not going to be useful for much of anything else related to mainstream non-keying After Effects work that editors are doing.

Not to diminish the excitement of this. Fusion has always deserved more attention than it has gotten, and more resources than eyeon has been able to put into it. No disrespect intended. Small companies have limits, and nobody is better at pushing those limits than BMD. If BMD invigorates node-based compositing the way that they did color grading with Resolve, then all bets are off...

....unless you're betting on fusion or even Nuke as a realistic long-term alternative for motion graphics or most editors' current approach to compositing and effects. In which case, I'll happily take that bet, and I'll spot you the points. Easy money. The reefs are rich with the bones of those who thought they could plunder the good ship After Effects, which indeed Fusion has never tried to do.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 8:16:07 pm

[Tim Wilson] "[Shawn Miller] "I'm really interested to see what integration will look like between Resolve and Fusion."

Integration, yes. Merging, I can't imagine even a little.

Although the list of things BMD has done that I wouldn't have imagined is pretty long.

For one, the two products are from different companies. It takes a lot longer than you'd think to sort that sort of thing out. More important though, despite the fact that are some people who need multiple tasks, Media Composer is never going to have Pro Tools "inside," any more than FCP had Motion "inside" or Premiere jas After Effects "inside." Merging codebases is hard enough. Merging interfaces is impossible. You'd have to bury things so deep that a modal interface would be the only solution, at which point you sacrifice flexibility and efficiency on all kinds of levels."


Yes, I agree. I was thinking more along the lines of interchange. Something more akin to Cinema 4D/After Effects (pre-Cineware of course). :-)

[Tim Wilson] "I know that there's a lot of excitement about anything free, and BMD's aggression in general, but node-based compositing has nothing to do with motion graphics. Even if it works as your new greenscreen tool of choice, it's not going to be useful for much of anything else related to mainstream non-keying After Effects work that editors are doing."

Yes, again I completely agree. I see Fusion/Resolve as (possibly) being better suited to finishing. I didn't mean to suggest that Resolve could be a motion graphics front end to Fusion, the way Premiere is to AE. In fact, I almost wrote that Fusion is on one hand, WAY overpowered for the types of compositing tasks that most editors need, while probably being less than ideal as a motion graphics tool (at the same time).

[Tim Wilson] "....unless you're betting on fusion or even Nuke as a realistic long-term alternative for motion graphics or most editors' current approach to compositing and effects. In which case, I'll happily take that bet, and I'll spot you the points. Easy money. The reefs are rich with the bones of those who thought they could plunder the good ship After Effects, which indeed Fusion has never tried to do."

Not for editors, no. For high-end MoGraph work, possibly. I'm referring to the kind of work where the lines between MoGraph and VFX are so blurred that even the most seasoned pros have a tough time telling which is which... maybe it's time for a new catergory - MoFX, maybe? I've been saying for years that AE occupies an interestingly hard niche to compete in... that intersection between VFX and motion graphics where advanced animation, industrial strength project sizes, scripting and advanced compositing have to live in the same application. To your point, there hasn't been a serious competitor to AE'S MoFX (tm) capabilities since the fall of Commotion and Combustion, and it doesn't look like there's one on the horizon.


BTW, if you can find someone to take that bet, put me in for the price of a lifetime subscription to CC, because I agree with you. :-)

Shawn



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Tim Wilson
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 9:39:46 pm

[Shawn Miller] " I agree with you. :-)"

I should have mentioned that I was speaking rhetorically, and not thinking I was refuting any of your points. Not at all. I agree with you. Whatever this story ISN'T, what it IS is still amazing.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 10:03:58 pm

Bad, Tim. You should be banned from the space time continuum.

Tim


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Shawn Miller
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 12, 2014 at 10:14:33 pm

[Tim Wilson] "[Shawn Miller] " I agree with you. :-)"

I should have mentioned that I was speaking rhetorically, and not thinking I was refuting any of your points. Not at all. I agree with you. Whatever this story ISN'T, what it IS is still amazing."


Touché Mr. Wilson, touché. I should have seen that. It looks like we're agreed on all points then. :-)

Shawn



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David Mathis
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 13, 2014 at 2:51:19 am

[Tim Wilson] "For one, the two products are from different companies. It takes a lot longer than you'd think to sort that sort of thing out. More important though, despite the fact that are some people who need multiple tasks, Media Composer is never going to have Pro Tools "inside," any more than FCP had Motion "inside" or Premiere jas After Effects "inside." Merging codebases is hard enough. Merging interfaces is impossible. You'd have to bury things so deep that a modal interface would be the only solution, at which point you sacrifice flexibility and efficiency on all kinds of levels"

Agreed. Much prefer to have separate applications then one giant one filled with bugs and a nightmare of an interface. Really do not see Resolve and Fusion being merged into one.



[Tim Wilson] "
Not to diminish the excitement of this. Fusion has always deserved more attention than it has gotten, and more resources than eyeon has been able to put into it. No disrespect intended. Small companies have limits, and nobody is better at pushing those limits than BMD. If BMD invigorates node-based compositing the way that they did color grading with Resolve, then all bets are off..."


Any chance of a Fusion forum returning? I took a look at the Eyeon website and very interesting learning the software.

For now I rely on Motion for basic stuff, FCP X for editing and finishing, Resolve for color grading. After seeing the Resolve 11.1 update I am ready to give a try for a rough edit, some very useful features have been have added in. If they develop even further, which is a very strong possibility, then it will serve as a very solid NLE as well.

I love how Blackmagic Design innovates and very much appreciate the direction they are taking. Really enjoyed the recent firmware update for the Blackmagic Cinema Camera. My thoughts and two cents, whatever it is worth.


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David Mathis
Fusion for touching up still images
on Sep 13, 2014 at 7:04:03 pm

I am excited by the news and though my workflow does no call for complex compositing or motion graphics I am curious to know how Fusion would work in areas such as touching photos or other still images. I know this might seem a bit odd but thinking that nodes might have advantages over layer based applications. Curious to know what others think of this approach.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Fusion for touching up still images
on Sep 15, 2014 at 9:50:02 pm

[David Mathis] "I know this might seem a bit odd but thinking that nodes might have advantages over layer based applications. Curious to know what others think of this approach."

I don't think it's odd at all. Sometimes the right tool for the job is the "wrong" tool for the job.

Simon and I had a bit of a discussion around this topic a few months ago:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/69145#69229

I think that Photoshop's biggest strength (and greatest liability!) is the immediacy of its tools. I still prefer paint-style touchup work in Photoshop to a nodal compositor (immediacy wins here), but I really dislike actually compositing in Photoshop. I prefer to work procedurally whenever I can, and Photoshop is not built for procedural workflow.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Tim Wilson
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 13, 2014 at 7:28:31 pm

[David Mathis] "Any chance of a Fusion forum returning? "

Absolutely! We were always fans of fusion here at the COW, and at one time had a thriving community for it. We did what we could to feature its use in projects as well.

I'm really glad that it's going to have Blackmagic's energy behind it. They really breathed life into color grading in a way that entirely eclipsed what Color, or for that matter, the first incarnation of Davinci had ever done. It's going to be fun to see if their acquisition of Fusion redefines the relationship between node-based compositing and the work of hundreds of thousands of artists, instead of a small handful.

I honestly can't imagine it displacing After Effects or even other node-based compositing environments like Nuke for anyone already using them, but robust, accessible tools inevitably enrich creative possibilities. I want to see what's next when Blackmagic lights this one up.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 15, 2014 at 1:11:03 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I'm really interested to see what integration will look like between Resolve and Fusion."

That's an simple one. It was called Avid|DS. And Avid foolishly refused to support it, develop it and market it. Instead they decided to stay firmly in the middle-ground of post. Baffling.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Shawn Miller
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 15, 2014 at 5:04:02 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "[Shawn Miller] "I'm really interested to see what integration will look like between Resolve and Fusion."

That's an simple one. It was called Avid|DS. And Avid foolishly refused to support it, develop it and market it. Instead they decided to stay firmly in the middle-ground of post. Baffling."


That is baffling. I sort of remember the %50 discount on Fusion licenses for DS owners after it was EOL'd (to replace the compositing functionality), but I didn't know that Avid fell down on the development and marketing side. Hopefully, other application vendors will have better foresight. Looks like it might be a new day for Fusion.

Shawn



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David Mathis
Re: Blackmagic acquires Fusion
on Sep 15, 2014 at 7:34:08 pm

Maybe there will be a "Send To Fusion" function in Resolve, still waiting on the one for Motion.

camera operator | editor | production assistant

Remember kids, tracks are you friends when you charge by the hour. Track Tetris, game on!


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