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Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster

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Jeremy Garchow
Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:30:32 pm

The live stream isn't streaming very well, there's an Asian translation track that is embedded in the stream, the quality is for shite, a refresh brings up bars/tone or access denied.

The lead is often yours to lose.








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Steve Connor
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:32:24 pm

It's stabilised a bit now,


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:35:50 pm

Still crapping out here, but I just saw the new phones now do 240fps.

Too bad this stream is like 1.5 fps.


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Steve Connor
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:37:15 pm

and HDR video!


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Shawn Miller
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:42:42 pm

[Steve Connor] "and HDR video!"

So... is that 8 bit "HDR", or true 16 bit video?

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:46:22 pm

I'm sure it's 4 bit x2.

Displays are full gamut sRGB, though!

They also do 1080p60 regular motion.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:49:02 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I'm sure it's 4 bit x2.

Displays are full gamut sRGB, though!

They also do 1080p60 regular motion.
"


I heard these cameras have built in phones! That's crazy!

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:55:29 pm

These computers also have built in camera phones.

Seriously, this stream is absolutely bonkers.

There are now two different music tracks playing, and footage of the audience from before the event started.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:57:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I'm sure it's 4 bit x2.

Displays are full gamut sRGB, though!

They also do 1080p60 regular motion."


Pretty impressive!



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TImothy Auld
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 8:15:11 pm

I couldn't even get on it for a while. They used to be really good at this kind of thing. Weird, as this is their bread and butter.

Tim


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:46:15 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "The live stream isn't streaming very well, there's an Asian translation track that is embedded in the stream, the quality is for shite, a refresh brings up bars/tone or access denied."

And I thought it was just me!

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 6:32:15 pm

Pretty uninspired watch design, as well. Largely a bunch of ho-hum products. Very evolutionary.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 6:39:40 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Pretty uninspired watch design, as well. "

I don't know what else it could be. It needs to be a miniature touch interface.

What's important is the guts, and what it's able to do for you.

I think the health and fitness aspect will be have a lot of potential.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 6:49:23 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "What's important is the guts, and what it's able to do for you."

If that were all, there would be far fewer mac buyers. It has to have sleek, sexy hardware design, too. Speaking of which, my Mac Pro should be arriving any day!

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 6:58:27 pm

Yeah Moto X is much nicer looking though not near the functionality.

And WTF APPLE!?! I hope heads roll for this streaming fiasco - sound cutting in and out, totally freezing my Apple TV, lock ups - just the worst streaming event of all time - at least the U2 song played but then froze again during Tm talk...

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Steve Connor
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:05:27 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Yeah Moto X is much nicer looking though not near the functionality."

Moto X looks very nice but it's too big!


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Gary Huff
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 9:43:41 pm

[Steve Connor] "Moto X looks very nice but it's too big!"

No such thing as "too big" :-p


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:02:38 pm

[Jason Jenkins] "If that were all, there would be far fewer mac buyers. It has to have sleek, sexy hardware design, too."

Of course, design is an Apple ethos.

Are you saying the watch isn't sleek or sexy? Oliver said "uninspired".


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Mark Suszko
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:09:51 pm

Is there an FCP-W yet, for editing via your wristwatch? Probably by NAB:-)

The haptics of the watch are intriguing. Kind of a shame you need a dongle called an iphone to enable all of the features. The inductive charging is nice but I'm one of those people who sleeps with their watch on, feeling naked without it... so that's a problem.

The electronic wallet thing is good, if a little behind the japanese... I hope it works with Square and Paypal soon.

As to aesthetics of the watch case, the bands looks to be swappable, so, look for a huge aftermarket in the bands that matches iphone cases. To keep th eproduct going, they will likely have to open up case design and manufacture to third parties somewhere down the road.


Did anybody else but me see Bono and Tim touch fingers in the air, and yell:

"GO TEAM VENTURE!!!"


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Mark Suszko
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:10:33 pm

I had to miss part of the presentation: did they talk about the Power tube mac at all?


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Marcus Moore
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 2:26:37 pm

No Mac's mentioned at all at this event- which is no surprise based on the last few years.

Expect another event in late-October for updates to iPads, and any Mac news including Yosemite.


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:34:02 pm

[Mark Suszko] "he haptics of the watch are intriguing."

But I also heard the watch product manager say in passing that you could use the watch as a monitor for the camera stream coming from your iPhone camera?

If so, the kind of down and dirty in the field reporting that a lot of folks (myself included) do from an event like NAB just got a LOT easier to pull off.

Imagine your iPhone on a tiny little jib arm grabbing coverage direct to Livestream while you monitor it from your watch.

That would be kinda cool, actually.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:41:29 pm

[Bill Davis] "But I also heard the watch product manager say in passing that you could use the watch as a monitor for the camera stream coming from your iPhone camera?"


That, as well as a text interface, walkie talkie, health monitor, remote control, and dictation device.


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:46:11 pm

You just KNOW that some far sighted hacker planning a Phone app that will simultaneously track the elapsed time in a closed book test - and upon a sudden spike in heart rate - the phone will silently display the answer to the question you're staring at that don't know the answer for.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:30:24 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Are you saying the watch isn't sleek or sexy?"

It isn't that either. Looks just like the modified Nanos from a year or more ago.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:41:51 pm

[Oliver Peters] "It isn't that either. Looks just like the modified Nanos from a year or more ago."

What did you want it to look like?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 7:48:04 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "What did you want it to look like?"

There were a lot more innovative ideas presented in the various "what if" concepts. Such as the various curved ideas. Or even the Dick Tracey watch of the original comics.

Of course, I'm probably the wrong market anyway, because I think it's a stupid idea to begin with. Never had one of the old databank watches either, which is a lot of what this concept is all about ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 8:23:52 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Of course, I'm probably the wrong market anyway, because I think it's a stupid idea to begin with. Never had one of the old databank watches either, which is a lot of what this concept is all about ;-)"

I don't wear watches, either.

I don't think it's a bad idea, per se, but it's not a device that "everyone" will want. That's cool. There's some pretty cool tech in there, and it seems to be a bit of a live experiment.

Also, isn't it at least somewhat ironic that, bedsides computers, isn't this the first Apple product that has an analog control input emulator since the iPod classic?

Jeremy


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 8:43:56 pm

I'm really surprised at how blah it looks. big square lump on your wrist. chris ziegler on the verge made the point that as a gen one product - the apple watch is going to get an awful lot better looking over time. I don't mind a thicker phone, I didn't mind the original iphone, but I do rather mind a thicker square watch.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 8:56:32 pm

[Bill Davis] "That would be kinda cool, actually."

It would, hopefully there's a focus assist feature as trying to judge 1080p focus on something the size of postage stamp will be challenging.


[Jeremy Garchow] "What did you want it to look like?
"


I'm w/Oliver in that I feel like it just looks pedestrian. What did I want it to look like? I don't know, but Apple usually does it right with industrial design but maybe a watch w/smartphone-like functionality is just too limiting a form factor do get creative with. I feel like all the different bands and the three different casings (gold, steel, aluminum) were Apple's way of trying to dress up the design a bit.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 9:18:31 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I'm w/Oliver in that I feel like it just looks pedestrian. What did I want it to look like? I don't know, but Apple usually does it right with industrial design but maybe a watch w/smartphone-like functionality is just too limiting a form factor do get creative with."

To me, it's not a watch, or a smart phone.

Are you saying Ive and Co. got this wrong? Just asking, because I don't really know.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 9:55:47 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Are you saying Ive and Co. got this wrong? Just asking, because I don't really know."

I don't know if they got it wrong or right because it just came out. I'm just saying from a design standpoint I was expecting something more. The iPod has a distinctive design. The iPhone had a distinctive design but now it's more common place as pretty much every smartphone went the slab, no keyboard route. I don't feel like the iWatch has a distinct Apple 'stamp' on it. It looks like those after market watches where people attached an iPod Mini to a wrist band. Just going by pictures I think the Moto 360 looks better although it's huge.

With pretty much every other Apple product I've always had a 'huh, I wouldn't of thought of doing it that way' feeling to some degree but w/the iWatch I was more like 'that's it?'.

Oh, and the charger just makes me groan. Another speciality cable I need to keep track of and probably buy multiple of? Awesome. At least we'd gotten the point where MiniUSB, Lightning/30pin cables were ubiquitous enough that you could pick one up at the gas station or on set be like "Hey, anyone got a charger I could borrow?" and yo'd be set. Now I'm going to have to remember to never forget the special cable I need to charge my watch on most likely daily basis. Ugh.

Like I said before, maybe putting a touchscreen computer into a wristwatch sized form factor doesn't leave much room for external industrial design creativity. Or maybe Apple felt like they were missing the boat so they didn't spend as much time going through design iterations as they usually do.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 10:20:47 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Or maybe Apple felt like they were missing the boat so they didn't spend as much time going through design iterations as they usually do."

I think this thing will be mostly about function. A timepiece is more of a fashion piece. This isn't a timepiece, at least it doesn't seem to be, and I'm sure Ive and Co thought of that.

I hear you about the charger. I thought there'd be a lighting port at least, but the insides appear to be sealed.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 12:02:31 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I think this thing will be mostly about function. A timepiece is more of a fashion piece. This isn't a timepiece, at least it doesn't seem to be, and I'm sure Ive and Co thought of that."

Apple takes traditionally function over form items like computers and consumer electronics and adds distinctive, if minimalistic design cues them, yet takes an item that typically has design cues and rolls out something incredibly vanilla. I think that's where my 'meh' comes from. Again, this is all just from images so the fit and finish (which is typically another thing Apple does very well) of the iWatch could be much better than that of other smart watches. Really though it just looks like an iPod Nano watch with rounded edges to me.

I thought I read an interview with Ive where he talked about the future of design being in the software because almost all of the interaction with the product is happening in the virtual realm of the GUI. Maybe that's one reason Ive was given control over iOS UI design too because they knew that the flag ship products (iPhone, iPad, Watch) were all going to be very limited from an industrial design standpoint?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 2:31:06 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Apple takes traditionally function over form items like computers and consumer electronics and adds distinctive, if minimalistic design cues them, yet takes an item that typically has design cues and rolls out something incredibly vanilla. I think that's where my 'meh' comes from. Again, this is all just from images so the fit and finish (which is typically another thing Apple does very well) of the iWatch could be much better than that of other smart watches. Really though it just looks like an iPod Nano watch with rounded edges to me."

Just curious, but did you watch any of the videos that surrounded it today, or watch the demo from the product dude?

There's a whole lot going on in the screen, from the press vs tap, the system on a chip, this seems to be a walking prototype, and an R&D experiment of newer technology for Apple. It's not an industrial design winner, but this will certainly influence the design of something else. Also, as you say, it may look different in person.

There's also a slight rebrand happening. It's not the iWatch, it's the Watch (Apple watch). It's not iPay, it's Apple Pay. Does this mean the iMac becomes the....AppleMac (Mac). :)

At $350 it's Apple's most expensive toy without a huge benefit to a giant swath of users.

Jeremy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 2:35:45 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "At $350 it's Apple's most expensive toy without a huge benefit to a giant swath of users."

Well, sort of. iPhone are quite a lot more, but they are subsidized by your phone contract.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 2:40:21 am

[Oliver Peters] "Well, sort of. iPhone are quite a lot more, but they are subsidized by your phone contract."

Surely. But there's a direct "benefit" to having the phone, email, text, camera, music, books, movies, etc and so forth.

For me, personally, not sure if the $350 would be worth it? For a phone, it's worth it as I use it constantly for many tasks...in my mind, anyway, there's a big distinction.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 2:45:10 am

...and in order to use the Watch communication features, you need a phone to go with it.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 13, 2014 at 8:30:56 pm

Apparently the watch team was headed up by the guy that Apple hired from Adobe (former CTO).

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/apple-made-a-perfect-watch-but-needs-to-decide...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 4:28:37 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Just curious, but did you watch any of the videos that surrounded it today, or watch the demo from the product dude?"

When I said I think it looks like an iPod Nano watch w/rounded edges I literally meant I think it *looks* like an iPod Nano watch w/round corners. It was a comment purely on the aesthetics of the thing (that's all we've been talking about anyway). Of course the functional differences between the official Apple Watch and the Nano watch are night and day.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 11, 2014 at 3:42:45 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Again, this is all just from images so the fit and finish (which is typically another thing Apple does very well) of the iWatch could be much better than that of other smart watches."

A watch guy's opinion on Apple Watch form: http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/hodinkee-apple-watch-review


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 11, 2014 at 5:22:00 am

Saw that and some other ones too. Still underwhelmed. ;) I'm not surprised the build quality is solid as that is typically one of Apple's strong points.

Like every good client, I can't tell you what I like, but I can tell you I don't like what you just showed me. lol


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TImothy Auld
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 8:17:14 pm

I admit I was looking for a headband watch.

Tim


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Mark Suszko
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 8:25:33 pm

But I also heard the watch product manager say in passing that you could use the watch as a monitor for the camera stream coming from your iPhone camera?

If so, the kind of down and dirty in the field reporting that a lot of folks (myself included) do from an event like NAB just got a LOT easier to pull off.

Imagine your iPhone on a tiny little jib arm grabbing coverage direct to Livestream while you monitor it from your watch.

That would be kinda cool, actually.


Meh, It's been done...



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Mark Suszko
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 10:44:32 pm

Nowhere have I seen an answer: is the watch waterproof, and to how deep?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 9, 2014 at 11:01:52 pm

[Mark Suszko] "Nowhere have I seen an answer: is the watch waterproof, and to how deep?"

It hasn't received FCC approval yet (disclaimer at the bottom of the Apple pages). Maybe the final specs aren't complete yet. It won't be sold until 2015 anyway.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 1:57:50 am

[Mark Suszko] "Nowhere have I seen an answer: is the watch waterproof, and to how deep?"

I would imagine that it is at least water resistant. Apple's videos show the "Sport" watch being used in a variety of sweat inducing situations. Curiously, they choose running, biking, but they do not complete the triathlon of swimming.

Also, they made a big deal in the video that the electronics are sealed.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 2:07:03 am

See, it's 30M.



Oh, wait. ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 10, 2014 at 2:35:17 am

[Oliver Peters] "Oh, wait. ;-)"

Haha.



otay.png


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Paul Neumann
Re: Apple Event Livestream is kind of a disaster
on Sep 11, 2014 at 3:06:07 pm







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Craig Seeman
Streaming Media's Dan Rayburn on the mess
on Sep 10, 2014 at 12:34:07 pm

Streaming Media's Dan Rayburn on the mess
http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2014/09/why-apples-livestream-failed.html

Actually the comments at the bottom are very illuminating.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Streaming Media's Dan Rayburn on the mess
on Sep 10, 2014 at 4:41:31 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Actually the comments at the bottom are very illuminating."

"Nathan Hubbard • 2 hours ago
This is speculative click-bait. Do not share."


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Craig Seeman
Re: Streaming Media's Dan Rayburn on the mess
on Sep 10, 2014 at 5:04:43 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Sep 10, 2014 at 5:13:28 pm

I'm not quite sure Dany Rayburn and Streaming Media post link bait articles. It's purely speculative but their business is covering the Streaming and Encoding industry and this blog (it's his blog post and not a researched article) falls into that category.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Streaming Media's Dan Rayburn on the mess
on Sep 10, 2014 at 5:31:32 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I'm not quite sure Dany Rayburn and Streaming Media post link bait articles. It's purely speculative but their business is covering the Streaming and Encoding industry and this blog (it's his blog post and not a researched article) falls into that category."

I thought it seemed a little drastic, too.

It seems that no one really knows what happened.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Streaming Media's Dan Rayburn on the mess
on Sep 10, 2014 at 7:18:57 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "It seems that no one really knows what happened."
We may have to follow the Apple Job Openings to get a better picture ;)

There's some pretty entertaining press about the stream today.

From the Higher Ed niche
https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/technology-and-learning/apples-live-st...

NY Times
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/09/09/apples-live-streaming-is-terrible/

TUAW references the Streaming Media blog
http://www.tuaw.com/2014/09/10/why-apples-live-video-stream-was-a-complete-...

Huff Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/apple-livestream-fail_n_5792090.ht...

News.com Australia
http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/apple-live-stream-and-u2-fail-lea...

Business Insider also refs Streaming Media blog
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-apple-live-stream-failed-during-iphone-6...

The Guardian covers the response on Twitter
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/09/applelive-how-twitter-rea...

TechCrunch
http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/09/apple-livestream-translation/

International Business Times and Twitter
http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-iphone-announcement-marred-live-stream-issues-...

ZDnet
If Apple can't stream an iPhone 6 event, is there really an enterprise story?
http://www.zdnet.com/if-apple-cant-stream-an-iphone-6-event-is-there-really...

NBC
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/apple-launch/apples-big-iphone-6-announcem...

Forbes attacks from a few perspectives
http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2014/09/10/apple-iphone-6-launch-...

Wall Street Journal
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/09/09/apples-iphone-6-live-stream-fail/

Thus ends a great moment in Apple's "don't hold it that way" reliability ;)



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Streaming Media's Dan Rayburn on the mess
on Sep 11, 2014 at 1:46:47 am

[Craig Seeman] "Thus ends a great moment in Apple's "don't hold it that way" reliability ;)"

There's a lot of funny in those links. Thanks.

My dear mom sent me the link to streamingmedia blog.

If that's happening, you know it must be bad.


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David Howard
Re: Streaming Media's Dan Rayburn on the mess
on Sep 11, 2014 at 3:07:29 am

No mac mention in this at all, really surprised ;)

Redefined Media

Video Production Sydney


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