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CineForm and Adobe

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Franz Bieberkopf
CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 8, 2014 at 10:46:45 pm

... of interest to all those who ever asked the question about Adobe and a mezzanine codec.

... and of particular interest to Walter and Jeremy.

http://provideocoalition.com/ryoung/story/adobe-video-fall-2014
Fall CC 2014 Preview (ProVideoCoalition)

"Full encode/decode support for the GoPro CineForm codec offers users a cross-platform intermediate codec, with full support for alpha and large frame sizes of 4K and beyond. Installing free GoPro Studio gives users QT Player decode ..."



Franz.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 12:39:59 am

Super curious as to how it pans out.

Doesn't it just shift mezzanine, render, and delivery codec and performance responsibility to GoPro?

I'm curious on the thoughts surrounding this issue. I know there is some sort of SMPTE qualification, but what does that really mean?

There has been a lot of discussion about third parties and what kind of responsibility this presents to developers, users, and hosts. As Walter said in the other subthread, a mastering codec is not something to be taken lightly, and would rather this be based on open, rather than proprietary technologies.

GoPro, at least for now, seems to be a very healthy company. How long does it last? What if the decide to pull the plug on development? Don't all the same questions we ask our self about Final Cut Doom apply to any other entity?

Or, if the codec becomes a success, does none of that matter because there's something that really works and has the performance and quality to appease the working professional?


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Oliver Peters
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 12:42:38 am

Of course, you can already use DNxHD, ProRes (Mac) or uncompressed.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 1:15:36 am

Right.

But ProRes is a rather closed system. If you are on a Mac, great, but if not?

DNxHD hasn't been updated for bigger than 4k and gets weird with non SMPTE rasters, and uncompressed is really large to send around, and an alpha channel of that would require Animation which has been all but written off.


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Oliver Peters
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 1:18:10 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "DNxHD hasn't been updated for bigger than 4k and gets weird with non SMPTE rasters, and uncompressed is really large to send around, and an alpha channel of that would require Animation which has been all but written off."

Pay attention to IBC.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 1:23:19 am

Of the three DNxHD, ProRes and Cineform - Cineform is a far better codec comparing size/clarity and should have been bought by Adobe 10 years ago. Happy it's being better integrated but Pro Res is such a pleasure to edit and render with and has really won over the entire post world for final delivery etc.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Shawn Miller
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 1:32:33 am
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Sep 9, 2014 at 1:34:25 am

[Lance Bachelder] "Of the three DNxHD, ProRes and Cineform - Cineform is a far better codec comparing size/clarity and should have been bought by Adobe 10 years ago."

That would not have been good news for Windows users. Initially, I was skeptical about GP buying Cineform, but I think they've done the right thing by them so far. Now, if they could just get Blackmagic to support Cineform RAW.

EDIT: Sorry, I saw Adobe and read Apple! Apologies Lance, it's been a very long day!

Shawn



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Lance Bachelder
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 8:59:20 am

You got me on that one! I was about to go ballistic lol - Adobe was Windows only in the early PPro days and Cineform's Prospect was the only way to get a decent "pro" workflow with Premiere - I was probably the first person to ever cut a 2K L/R eye project in Premiere/Prospect using the Cineform codec - those .avi's still look great today.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Shawn Miller
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:13:03 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "You got me on that one! I was about to go ballistic lol - Adobe was Windows only in the early PPro days and Cineform's Prospect was the only way to get a decent "pro" workflow with Premiere - I was probably the first person to ever cut a 2K L/R eye project in Premiere/Prospect using the Cineform codec - those .avi's still look great today."

Ha ha, yes, sorry again for misreading that! Cineform is all kinds of awesome.

Shawn



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David Cherniack
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 12:27:19 pm
Last Edited By David Cherniack on Sep 9, 2014 at 12:39:37 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "Of the three DNxHD, ProRes and Cineform - Cineform is a far better codec comparing size/clarity and should have been bought by Adobe 10 years ago. Happy it's being better integrated but Pro Res is such a pleasure to edit and render with and has really won over the entire post world for final delivery etc."

All very true and if Apple weren't so retentive about it Prores would have been in Premiere (Windows) long ago.

I could be wrong but I expect that Adobe's growing clout in the post world, and the overall quality of Cineform, will see it increasingly being used as an acquisition codec by camera manufacturers.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 3:29:29 pm

[David Cherniack] "I could be wrong but I expect that Adobe's growing clout in the post world, and the overall quality of Cineform, will see it increasingly being used as an acquisition codec by camera manufacturers."

How about in post?

Are you going to use it?


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David Cherniack
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:05:36 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Are you going to use it?"

Yes! Assuming that Adobe is able to optimize the speed it will be the GOTO mezzanine codec for 4k+ under Windows...probably even if Avid announce a rez-independent version of DNx. AFAIK Cineform is the best intermediate/mastering codec out there.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:32:17 pm

[David Cherniack] "I could be wrong but I expect that Adobe's growing clout in the post world, and the overall quality of Cineform, will see it increasingly being used as an acquisition codec by camera manufacturers."

Man I want this to be true. ProRes is a great recording format, but Cineform would make my life just that much easier. It's one of the reasons I'm keeping an eye on the Kinefinity cameras. Would also love to see BlackMagic adopt Cineform.

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 5:33:40 pm

Now if we can just get the open source community to write import/export functions to FCPX!

Yay!

;-D


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 9, 2014 at 4:07:46 am

[Oliver Peters] "Pay attention to IBC."

Animation codec 2014? Smaller, faster, 6 times the quality?

DNx4k?

48 count blast-a-core with TrueBlue Alaskan Glacier Cooling™, PCI v4 (now with more lanes), 68 pounds (38 kilos) of ssd chipsets, and a precious ps/2 port for the legacy in all of us?


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Oliver Peters
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 11, 2014 at 1:21:36 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "DNxHD hasn't been updated for bigger than 4k"

And now:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Avid-L2/conversations/messages/120476

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/45/898262

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 11, 2014 at 3:31:56 pm

[Oliver Peters] "And now:"

DNxHR

So, is that the next deliverable?


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Oliver Peters
Re: CineForm and Adobe
on Sep 11, 2014 at 4:56:04 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "So, is that the next deliverable?"

Depends on whether the industry cares about actual, approved standards, since Avid will seek SMPTE blessing under the VC-3 spec.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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