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Aindreas Gallagher
adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 5, 2014 at 9:53:39 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Sep 5, 2014 at 10:08:05 pm

from about 16 minutes in: overall its a super interesting watch.







“I could have a laptop, anywhere, and I have petabytes of storage, secured.”

kind of surreal demo. not hack avid proxy files. that is a true 4K+ thin client mac lappie that chooses the GPU between the client machine and the anywhere -remote machine room blade source- compute in a race every second. It occurs to you that we buy a ton of edit storage and redundancy to sustain and maintain client material. Or people like herb suvesh do. I personally have three lacie drives. anyway.

The caveats he states later have to do with the speed of light and continental landmass light travel for good JKL trim - so be calm mumbai fears - also they are shy about the wifi connection - but for anyone who still doesn’t think adobe are balancing their entire suite on premiere for core web based media production and generation its an interesting watch.
Particularly in the UK - ITV is heavily in - up to story running coronation street and them hosing the avid editors with Ppro at that meeting.
Reliably obviating local storage requirements for successful editing scenarios at a certain scale is a pretty powerful argument on both ends.

*edit* - paying forever for CC is delicious with a floral scent, and has a hint of oak all at the same time.



http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Oliver Peters
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 1:23:36 am

More on Adobe Anywhere in my post:

http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/adobe-anywhere/

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 3:13:58 pm

Great article. Thank you Oliver.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bob Woodhead
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 11:31:16 am
Last Edited By Bob Woodhead on Sep 6, 2014 at 11:31:50 am

That is pretty darn spankin' cool.


But it's got tracks.


And no magnets.


meh.





"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
CMX-Quantel-Avid-Premiere-FCPX-AFX-Crayola
"What a long strange trip it's been...."


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David Mathis
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 7:25:42 pm

[Bob Woodhead] "That is pretty darn spankin' cool.

But it's got tracks.

And no magnets.

meh."



Tracks feel kind of awkward now and the fact you have to think in the "Tetris" type of mentality as I like to call it. :-)

camera operator | editor | production assistant

Remember kids, tracks are you friends when you charge by the hour. Track Tetris, game on!


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Steve Connor
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 7:51:45 pm

[David Mathis] "Tracks feel kind of awkward now and the fact you have to think in the "Tetris" type of mentality as I like to call it. :-)"

Having spent a large number of years using tracks, I'm quite happy to switch between edits on FCPX and PPro, I don't buy into the redundancy of them just yet.


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Chris Harlan
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 10:08:04 pm

[David Mathis] "Tracks feel kind of awkward now and the fact you have to think in the "Tetris" type of mentality as I like to call it. :-)
"


Mentality? It just depends on the complexity of the audio work you have to do. I'm guessing you don't have to do a whole lot of layering.


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David Mathis
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 10:18:37 pm

[Chris Harlan] "[David Mathis] "Tracks feel kind of awkward now and the fact you have to think in the "Tetris" type of mentality as I like to call it. :-)
"

Mentality? It just depends on the complexity of the audio work you have to do. I'm guessing you don't have to do a whole lot of layering."


Was meant as a tongue and cheek comment and comical relief. That's what I get for not using quotes. :-)

Tracks are good but sometimes it feels like a game of Tetris, but not as complicated. At least that is how it feels for me sometimes.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 12:56:46 pm

Seriously, though, no mention I could find (though I didn't watch the entire vid) of latency. I'd love to know how they're achieving 0 lag time between remote editor's keyboard & the streamed result.

And then there was this: "With the upload speeds we have available to us, we are able to provide review/approvals to our director the same day.” Maybe in Austin, home of the new AT&T GigaPower (300Mbs-1Gbs) service, but not in most hotels & facilities I've been at in the US. Uploading a few hundred GB in the US tends to be a "paint drying" experience.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 2:20:26 pm

Nope. He does hedge his bets and seems to indicate that you need to be inside a couple of hundred miles of the source anywhere installation - he talks about geographic areas. And he did mention the speed of light a few times. Still - that was playing remote 4k material and ton of other codecs over a wifi connection and the Jkl shuttling looked bang on.

You'd think realistically it has to need minimum a 30mbps connection though? That about 3-4 MBps - you could imagine the adobe h264 streaming codec variant could push something respectable down that pipe in reliable real time.

the fact that it leverages remote and local GPUs in competition is pretty zany. There has to be an absolute ton of serious engineering in anywhere overall. I'm not pimping it because I'm lumped with the subscription, but it is absolutely crazy to consider where premiere has gone since 5.5 - or even since 6.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Cherniack
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 3:13:26 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "it is absolutely crazy to consider where premiere has gone since 5.5 - or even since 6"

Massive leaps. The advantages of the Creative Cloud for development are really starting to bear fruit. Next stop, Amsterdam.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Helge Tjelta
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 4:39:15 pm

OK guys, before the praise begins, just read Oliver's article fully.

The Adobe Anywhere seems to me just like a bunch on internaly build "remote desktops". So there is no wonder this will work on a laptop. Nor am I impressed with 5K playback, thats because there is never a 5K playback going on localy at all. At best we have a transfer of 1/4 HD and compressed quality over the VPN. (1/4 is from it looks lik a mac with 1920x1200 screen estate and the recorder window is 1/4 of the screen).

Basicly, if you take any NLE and do a VPN session you'll get the same. What is cool is that they have build in this "remote desktop" and hidden it, so it "looks " like you are on the mainframe locally.

This is just as going back to a citrix office way of working. The clever part is the local ingest transfering to the mainframe happening in the background stuff.

Think of Adobe Anywhere as OnLive og STEAM. Just with the upload in addition.

But again, read Olivers article, he explains the difference of Avid and Adobe solution, and shows the differences.

/Helge

Helge


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Walter Soyka
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 7:23:09 pm

[Helge Tjelta] "The Adobe Anywhere seems to me just like a bunch on internaly build "remote desktops". So there is no wonder this will work on a laptop. Nor am I impressed with 5K playback, thats because there is never a 5K playback going on localy at all... Basicly, if you take any NLE and do a VPN session you'll get the same."

I think this is an big oversimplification of Anywhere that misses the entire collaboration architecture.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Devin Crane
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 7:27:12 pm

I've actually done quite a bit of editing over remote desktop with FCPX from about 1,000 miles away. I know not the same but I can see how it could work without a huge investment.



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Herb Sevush
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 8:08:48 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I think this is an big oversimplification of Anywhere that misses the entire collaboration architecture."

Absolutely. I would very much like to hear the opinion of someone like Mark Raudonis, someone who is very familiar administrating collaborative workflows on a large scale. Anywhere is still a financial reach for me, but it's looks promising.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Helge Tjelta
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 9:36:11 pm

Yes, I know it is a BIG OVER simplification. But that was the whole point.

I get the colaboration and the other stuff.

But the main prinsiple is: you only see streams of video coming from the mainframe, and only send commands from you local machine to the mainframe.

That's why you don't need the best lines (connection) in the world.

And thats the whole point. You can do it on much more hardware, and use what you got, as long as it can decode incomming video fast enough.

Helge


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 11:00:38 pm

But you seemed to be suggesting it was equivalent to using a Remote Desktop. The point is that is completely wrong. The software is local, and depending on circumstance, the gpu and effects processes are local. What is being virtualized is the video storage. They are operating a real time encode engine to deliver an optimized stream of all he assets to single downmuxed stream using their own codec to the client edit system. Also when you press pause they instantly insert the native media still frame - be it 5k epic or whatever.

It's absolutely nothing like Remote Desktop or a VPN session. Those aren't in any way accurate comparisons.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Helge Tjelta
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 11:12:45 pm

I'm not quite so sure about that..

From my understanding, there is nothing localy.

I.e. if you start on a timeline, prepared for U by someone else, and you sit at home with your laptop. On wifi, you will right from the start, be able to play a 5K RED epic raw file.

That is because you are only seeing a stream video in your canvas window. So you never ever have a file at you place, unless you tell the system to offload a bunch of proxies.

otherwise you'll only get streaming of a "viewport" containing you master edit being done.

Helge


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Helge Tjelta
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 11:23:46 pm

As explained in the whitepaper:

How it works

Source media files used by Adobe Anywhere are kept on a storage server connected to the cluster via a high-bandwidth OS-level file system mount. Local and remote users can upload source files to the storage server and can even work on the files while upload is in progress. Once the files finish uploading, they can be immediately used by other editors.

The core component in the Adobe Anywhere cluster is the Collaboration Hub. It contains the database of project information and metadata, manages user access, coordinates the other nodes in the cluster, and provides an API for integration into other Adobe Anywhere clusters.
The Adobe Mercury Streaming Engine nodes provide real-time, dynamic viewing streams of Adobe Premiere Pro and Prelude sequences with GPU-accelerated effects to your team members on their individual computers. The media is streamed from its native file formats on the storage server out to the users.
And when it’s time to export from Adobe Anywhere, the Mercury Streaming Engine can generate final files from sequences and other media.

A minimum of three Mercury Streaming Engines is required for a small workgroup. But the system can easily be scaled to support larger groups or more complex use cases, simply by adding more Mercury Streaming Engines. The exact number required depends on use-case details such as the number of simultaneous users and media formats.

Adobe Anywhere does not require dedicated network cabling between individual editing workstations and the Anywhere cluster. This can greatly lower the costs associated with your network infrastructure and make it possible to create flexible workspaces for your creative team.
The viewing streams Adobe Anywhere delivers to individual team members are small and light enough to fit on shared, standard LAN/WAN networks. Adobe Anywhere does not edit, move, or delete the original media on the storage server. These functions are reserved for your media asset management system. And there are no proxy files in the Adobe Anywhere system. The server accesses the full resolution files and uses the power of the Mercury Streaming Engine to deliver exactly what is needed, given the bandwidth available. As a result, you get less complexity, lower workflow costs, and speedier production.

Helge


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Oliver Peters
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 11:42:40 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "But you seemed to be suggesting it was equivalent to using a Remote Desktop. The point is that is completely wrong. The software is local, and depending on circumstance, the gpu and effects processes are local. "

This is incorrect. The local instance of Premiere essentially acts as a web services application that talks to the software back at the Anywhere servers. Those servers contain software, as well as GPU processing. So all compositing and media processing only happens in Anywhere.

The video engine streams a single stream of composited video back to the local unit. The resolution is dynamically throttled during playback based on bandwidth. When you pause or stop, a single frame at full resolution is sent to the local unit. This way you can make your effects adjustments at full resolution, but don't really need the playback performance on the local machine.

From what I understand, there is no hybrid local/remote operation. You cannot mix full resolution local media with low resolution streamed media in the same project. In fact, the project doesn't live locally at all, but rather on the Anywhere servers, in order to facilitate collaboration.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 7, 2014 at 1:01:35 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "But you seemed to be suggesting it was equivalent to using a Remote Desktop. The point is that is completely wrong. The software is local, and depending on circumstance, the gpu and effects processes are local. "

[Oliver Peters] "From what I understand, there is no hybrid local/remote operation. You cannot mix full resolution local media with low resolution streamed media in the same project."

Oliver is right that for a production, all media lives on the Anywhere server.

When you ingest media locally, it uploads to the server in the background. You can edit with the local media until the upload is complete, and then it automatically and seamlessly flips over to the remote assets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TWeJw5Kf7qQ#t=1843

Aindreas is right about the hybrid processing pipeline:

Your local machine and the server will race to process an effect. Whichever system finishes first wins. This gives better interactivity, especially for tweaking effects on the full-quality single frames that the Anywhere server sends to the remote user when parked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TWeJw5Kf7qQ#t=2169

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 7, 2014 at 7:52:48 am
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Sep 7, 2014 at 9:50:23 am

[Oliver Peters] "as well as GPU processing. So all compositing and media processing only happens in Anywhere."


haha! For once in a blue moon you are actually wrong on that one Oliver. It can and will use the local GPU for processing if it beats out the remote processing in response time.

edit - walter got there first at that.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Oliver Peters
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 7, 2014 at 1:31:44 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "haha! For once in a blue moon you are actually wrong on that one Oliver. It can and will use the local GPU for processing if it beats out the remote processing in response time."

I stand corrected. I was merely going by the demo and background research provided by Adobe's product managers to me a few months ago. Adobe may well have tweaked it in the interim. Or maybe it's just semantics.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 7, 2014 at 1:08:42 am

[Helge Tjelta] "Yes, I know it is a BIG OVER simplification. But that was the whole point. I get the colaboration and the other stuff. But the main prinsiple is: you only see streams of video coming from the mainframe, and only send commands from you local machine to the mainframe."

Yes, sorry if I misunderstood you. Certainly one of the major theses of Anywhere is that the media lives and most rendering happens on a server somewhere else.

But in person, it's a very, very different experience from Remote Desktop or VNC.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Chris Harlan
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 10:04:43 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I think this is an big oversimplification of Anywhere that misses the entire collaboration architecture.
"


Perhaps I misunderstood, but I don't think he was missing it per se; I just don't think he was addressing that particular aspect of it.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: adobe begins construction on the edit media deathstar
on Sep 6, 2014 at 7:43:12 pm

"Basicly, if you take any NLE and do a VPN session you'll get the same. "

Mm. Right.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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