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Oliver Peters
UK NLE Survey
on Aug 15, 2014 at 8:54:42 pm

Interesting UK survey among production company execs.

http://www.televisual.com/read-reports-surveys/31/257/The-top-editing-compo...

Clearly they haven't been listening to Aindreas ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Hancock
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 15, 2014 at 8:59:56 pm

Don't they know about the tilda key!?! Somebody needs to show them tilda!!!

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 15, 2014 at 9:22:59 pm

Is it just me or does anyone else think this is a very odd result indeed for compositing in this market?

Avid is also the strongest brand in the compositing market, with the DS system being used by 34% – even though it has been discontinued by the manufacturer. Autodesk’s Flame and Smoke are each used by 17%, with Mistika and Hiero on 4% and 1% respectively. 56% said they didn’t composite.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


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Michael Phillips
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 15, 2014 at 9:49:40 pm

And no After Effects at all for compositing?

Michael


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David Mathis
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 15, 2014 at 10:07:44 pm

I think they meant teasers? Not sure what they mean be taster. Guess that is a nice cut of steak, salad and baked potato in the timeline along side a nice bottle of vintage wine.

Interesting that After Effects was mentioned. In the event I have the funds necessary I would probably go with Nuke but that software is way out of my price range.

One thing that has me slightly puzzled is what features are not present in FCP X, interesting. Perhaps it is not subscription only? Why would anyone want to own when paying monthly rent that drains your bank account is so much fun? :-)

I am an avid user of FCP X!


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Shawn Miller
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 15, 2014 at 10:54:56 pm

[David Mathis] " Why would anyone want to own when paying monthly rent that drains your bank account is so much fun? :-)"

If you don't like subscription, you probably won't like Nuke's $1,000+ MSA either. If you're serious about an inexpensive compositor that you can "own", SGO's Mamba would probably be a better choice for you.

Shawn



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Walter Soyka
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 1:52:58 am

[David Mathis] "Interesting that After Effects was mentioned. In the event I have the funds necessary I would probably go with Nuke but that software is way out of my price range."

I see Ae and Nuke as complementary more than comparable. They have very different strengths and weaknesses.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Walter Soyka
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 1:50:56 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "Is it just me or does anyone else think this is a very odd result indeed for compositing in this market?"

Yes, seeing neither Ae nor Nuke on this list is simply incomprehensible and I think really calls the validity of the whole survey into question.

Here's some more information on the survey:

Televisual specifically targetted the opinions of 100 senior production staff for the Production Technology Survey 2014, all of whom are responsible for determining technology choices on productions.

The 100 execs work at some of leading TV, film, commercials and corporate production companies in the UK such as Atlantic, Boundless, Casual Films, Company Pictures, Endemol, The Garden, IMG, Kudos, Leopard, Leftbank, Lime TV, Maverick, October Films, Princess, Rattling Stick, Raw, RDF, Ricochet, Sunset & Vine, Tiger Aspect, Wag TV, Windfall and World Television.

58% of respondents said they manage the production budget and are responsible for the production and technology choices. Meanwhile, 25% said they manage the production budget, and take advice on technology choices.

11 heads of production, four directors of production, 10 production managers, six managing directors, five heads of post production, 13 producer/directors, five exec producers and three series producers were among the 100 respondents to the survey.

73% said they work in TV production. 21% work in corporate, 13% in film, and 9% in commercials. (Some work in several sectors, explaining why the total is more than 100%).

http://www.televisual.com/read-reports-surveys/31/260/Who-took-part-in-the-...

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Dennis Radeke
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 12:47:42 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Yes, seeing neither Ae nor Nuke on this list is simply incomprehensible and I think really calls the validity of the whole survey into question."

Very true. How can you talk compositing and not mention the top programs?


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Bob Woodhead
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 15, 2014 at 9:56:18 pm

Apple is cited for ... cutting together tasters.

Obviously this survey is biased towards those who edit for food networks. Fallacious, I say!


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Shane Ross
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 15, 2014 at 11:57:54 pm

Look at those numbers and add them up. All of them go over 100%. Editing hits 114%, Compositing 129%, and grading 133%.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Michael Phillips
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 12:09:28 am

Some of them voted twice!

Michael


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Paul Neumann
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 1:13:43 am

106% of all editors surveyed think this article is 70% bs.


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David Mathis
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 1:19:57 am

I noticed the math is off as well.


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Mark Raudonis
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 4:36:16 am

Rather than focus on the "math" perhaps we should focus on the take away from this survey,
which is that in the large project, shared workflow environment, AVID still rules. The people polled for this survey are experienced professionals working on large projects with large teams in shared storage workflows. Naturally, they would favor AVID in that environment.

Despite all the noise here on this forum, I have yet to hear anyone champion FCP-X or Premier in a LARGE workgroup, shared media environment. Plenty of tales of specific, individual projects, and much debate about specific features but no tales of "great success" in the arena that I'm familiar with. I'd love to hear about it if you're working with 25-30 editors on a network show with hundreds of TB of shared storage.

Mark

PS. I do love the multi clip creation feature in FCP-X!



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Andrew Kimery
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 6:30:57 am

[Mark Raudonis] ". I'd love to hear about it if you're working with 25-30 editors on a network show with hundreds of TB of shared storage."

While not that big, one facility I used to work at says they are planning to move from FCP 7 to PPro. I'm not sure what the timetable is but they have about a dozen seats and 60TBs of perpetually full shared storage.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 12:56:26 pm

This has been discussed many times before but there are several large facilities using Premiere Pro in production. I am primarily involved with many of these large accounts and cannot mention them all since we would need permission, but it includes TV news groups, episodic programs, soaps, US sporting federations and their affiliated teams, multi-network brands, etc.

Names that are public include CNN, Hearst TV, Saturday Night Live, and several football and baseball teams.

You can also check out success stories at adobe.com as well as the vendor sponsored Adobe page at provideocoalition (link would get flagged, so won't bother posting)...

Hope this helps,
Dennis - Adobe guy


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Christopher Travis
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 9:54:08 am

A "taster tape" is in common parlance where I come from (London). It's a not-for-broadcast clip produced for commissioners or clients to sell either a programme idea or to show new presenting talent. I'm cutting a talent taster at the moment.

As for the results I'm not at all surprised to see Avid top of the pile, and I've no reason to call the results into question since Televisual is one of the countries leading industry magazines. They would have been able to canvas opinions from decision makers at the top of the country's biggest production companies and facilities.

I can easily believe that in the wider (and ever widening) video production market that PP and FCPX are gaining share, and with good reason, but in TV and film, Avid isn't going anywhere.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:30:50 am
Last Edited By Bob Woodhead on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:39:09 am

[Christopher Travis] "A "taster tape" is in common parlance where I come from (London). It's a not-for-broadcast clip produced for commissioners or clients to sell either a programme idea or to show new presenting talent."

Wondrous Welsh rarebit! My cheesy joke didn't have legs to stand on. Thanks for the slang education Chris, in fact, I may replace "sizzle" with "taster" over here. And in keeping with the theme, perhaps I'll ply the clients with spirits prior to playback. Make that "V1" viewing into something that needs a designated driver...

I was surprised to see the lead Avid has... did UK broadcast never make much of a switch to Legacy, or did they quickly return to Avid post-Legacy?


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James Ewart
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 5:24:51 pm
Last Edited By James Ewart on Aug 16, 2014 at 5:31:01 pm

Yup. In fact I know some people who don't admit to using FCPX for fear of it damaging their reputations such is the antipathy that prevails in the UK. It needs its 'Cold Mountain' moment over here as us Brits are a conservative bunch resistant to and suspicious of change. And the majority of our editors and facilities houses have a vested interest in maintaining Avid as the market leader. So shall it remain I would imagine. I will probably have retired by the time people catch on to the fact that especially for features and long form docs, the logging and organisational tools in FCPX are second to none. Plus there are plenty of production personnel in the UK who don't actually know very much about the ins and outs of editing tools. They have nobody to ask but the editors. I'm all for FCPX. Their view is "why change"? I've had conversations with people telling them how good FCPX is and I get strange looks and I can see them thinking "does he know what he is talking about?" because everything else they have ever heard is negative and that FCPX is not a "professional tool".


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:04:44 pm
Last Edited By Franz Bieberkopf on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:07:26 pm

[James Ewart] "... the fact that especially for features and long form docs, the logging and organisational tools in FCPX are second to none."

James,

Since this comment and others like it continue to come up ...
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/71345

I'll repeat that I can't speak to the browser-based editing workflows that FCP X key-wording seems designed for, but I will say that there are many ways of organizing vast amounts of data, and for sequence-based editing workflows (doc or otherwise) I don't see any advantages in X - I certainly wouldn't call it the "best" tool.

Franz.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:58:59 pm

I cut and delivered 3 docs in the past year - 2 for national broadcast and one that just completed theatrical run in LA for Oscar qualification - all 3 cut in Premiere CC. I ended up doing the mix for the last one in FCPX as a test - I thought I'd hate the lack of tracks and magnetic timeline as actual editing in FCPX has been my biggest problem and reason why I've never taken it seriously. The mix turned out great and sounded super in a theater. 5.1 and really fun to do and an end result that could not have been achieved in CC or Avid without a lot more time and effort.

I have to say I now LOVE the FCPX timeline and every time I go back to CC or FCP7 I can't believe how much I miss X. I'm now giving FCPX the full-time trial for the next year or so and have no worries.

As far as multiple sequences etc. for doc's or features I don't see a problem at all as it's as easy as Command D and cut away. FCPX tends to stay more organized by default then a project bin in CC or Avid.

Delivery via Share is also so much nicer than AME. I had 3 versions of a theatrical feature recently to deliver via Vimeo to the Producers - so nice to Share all 3, go to bed and have them rendered and posted in one step. Not to mention the best scopes of any NLE and super easy to spot check a show before delivery.

There's still some things Apple needs to ad and fix and a few that CC does better like Match-framing and replacing clips but I won't trade the FCPX timeline for a few conveniences in CC.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Walter Soyka
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 12:37:32 am

[Lance Bachelder] "I have to say I now LOVE the FCPX timeline and every time I go back to CC or FCP7 I can't believe how much I miss X. I'm now giving FCPX the full-time trial for the next year or so and have no worries."

Hi Lance,

If I recall correctly, you had tried and dismissed FCP X before. What's changed with FCP X since then that has changed your opinion?

(I'm not arguing, just curious, and I do completely understand the sentiment of missing a unique key feature from one app when you're using another.)

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Lance Bachelder
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 1:04:01 am

Walter, I freely admit to a roller-coaster love/hate relationship with FCPX with a vast history of all-over-the-map posts here on the Cow. I think the continual updates made by Apple over the past 3 years have got it to a point where it's now a viable option for high-end editing, maybe even the best option and certainly the most fun to use.

I know a few here have sworn by FCPX since the very beginning - I thought it was terrible a terrible release even though I had high hopes for it after seeing it demoed at the infamous Apple Supermeet coup at NAB.

While I like a lot about CC and editing picture is very good I just find the timeline to get messy and clunky once you start throwing in some sound fx and music and audio editing and mixing is just not fun. Just do a simple fade out on a music clip in CC vs. FCPX , I find the quality and accuracy much better in X.

Color tools and scopes are WAY better in FCPX than Premiere though you can add plug-ins like Film Convert or Colorista that work well in both. I think that with the addition of a plug-in like SliceX I can see myself color timing my next feature in FCPX without the need to move to a dedicated tool like Resolve. I also love the availability of a myriad of very cool plug-ins and fx for FCPX created by end-users at low cost.

Keyframing is still better in CC and FCPX lacks simple match-framing and a way to quickly replace a shot in the timeline but I think I can move ahead in hopes that Apple has more fixes in the works.

Also, while i really didn't mind the CC subscription at first the 2014 update was so stupid with a complete re-install and side-by-side mess I just decided to take another serious look at FCPX and I'm so happy I did. Next I'm going to finally learn enough Motion so that I can also eliminate AE and the need for the complete CC monthly. I've tried Pixelmator but it is seriously lacking compared to Photoshop so I plan to switch to the 9.99 Photoshop subscription soon.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 1:22:33 am

[Lance Bachelder] "As far as multiple sequences etc. for doc's or features I don't see a problem at all..."

Lance,

What would you say is the maximum number of sequences you have worked with in X on any given project?

Franz.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 4:34:16 am

over 60 back in the 10.0? days. I didn't set up the project and it was a disaster, but until the last couples of revs the whole program was a disaster in my opinion. I have no issues switching between multiple "sequences" in the current version of FCPX but I won't know how good/bad FCPX is until I cut my next full-length feature from scratch. I do know my color and sound will be fantastic and a joy to work with so I'm already ahead of any other NLE I've been paid to use...

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Scott Witthaus
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 10:27:09 am

Flawed sampling of a niche market. This is more an Avid marketing piece than a piece of research. I could write the same article at my school: "FCPX has 99% of all graduate advertising students....." Nothing to see here....

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 11:46:07 am

[Lance Bachelder] "... over 60 back in the 10.0? days."

Lance,

Thanks.

I typically have hundreds of sequences on any given project. I've yet to read any accounts of how FCP X performs under these conditions (particularly over a term of 6-8 months).

Franz.


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James Ewart
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 1:51:18 pm

Fair comment Franz. I should have said best for me.

http://www.jamesewart.co.uk


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 5:11:25 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Aug 17, 2014 at 5:12:45 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Clearly they haven't been listening to Aindreas ;-)"

A few people have taken out restraining orders tho...

Avid is still Avid alright, still... PPro just had 50% year over year market share growth. so realistically, it could well be a quarter or more of the market this time next year. And that's a pretty selective market I think in terms of respondents. If you cast the net a bit wider, PPro in London could be at a quarter of seats already. In fact I'd be surprised if its not.

Viacom won't let you edit spots with anything else as of recently. They've still got 7, but they're enforcing PPro. THere's also Hogarth, CNN, Associated Press, and a ton of other places. It's definitely a bit of a comer....

And, in closing, death to Avid.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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James Ewart
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 5:46:37 pm

"Viacom won't let you edit spots with anything else as of recently. They've still got 7, but they're enforcing PPro. THere's also Hogarth, CNN, Associated Press, and a ton of other places. It's definitely a bit of a comer.... "

Why do they care so much what kind of typewriter the script is written in out of interest?

Oh well I played with Premiere and found it much easier to adapt to than Avid MC from FCP7. So if that's the winner so be it. I stuck with X out of curiosity an respect to Apple apart from anything else. Adobe do seem to care a lot about their users with free tutorials and making it easy to use whatever keyboard shortcuts you are used to. Helpful people at Adobe it seems. I do get that vibe and sense that Apple feel more distance from their users.

Ho hum.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 17, 2014 at 11:10:58 pm

I think they just sort of called it? The designer said for AE, but that was never really a problem from 7 with xml and free duck and that.
fwiw Disney out in chiswick park are gone the same. I was put in front of PPro to cut some Disney channel promos there a month back.

I think it's super duper unlikely that ppro is going to unseat avid in any of the premier post houses for long form narrative or factual any time soon,
but i think its really really likely that its going to have 80% of what 7 had inside the next year or two. that's a fair bit of stuff.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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James Ewart
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 7:17:27 am

The thought occasionally enters my head that many editors and post houses do not like what they do looking too easy. The FCPX interface is so approachable maybe it just makes the job look too damn simple?

http://www.jamesewart.co.uk


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Scott Witthaus
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 10:43:59 am

It's like linear guys hating Avid back in the day. "How can you do an edit on a computer when you don't have a huge Sony 7000 switcher and three D2 machines running? It can't be that easy as a mouse click or key stroke! Our job is tough and that's why we can charge $400/hr...."

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Trevor Asquerthian
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 1:12:35 pm

Pretty sure some of 'those linear guys' had major contributions to development of Avid (& its antecedents)

Quite a few still around (including one of the most ferocious FCPx pioneers)



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Michael Phillips
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 1:34:50 pm

As a heavy "influencer" of MC development the first 10-15 years, I can tell you my editing background was all film working with other heavy "influencers" who were video creative editorial. The first NLE systems were really combining the ease of access that video brought (compared to film) and the non linear of aspect of film (compared to video) and bringing them together in a new way. For example, timeline replaced the EDL view common with linear control, etc. Mimicking a linear controller for finishing was never a goal as linear finishing retained its value well into the late 90's and again with the introduction of video.

Michael


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Walter Soyka
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 1:44:23 pm

I don't think there's any Vast High-end Post Conspiracy -- just people making the best workflow and business decisions they can, given their needs and goals. The pipeline matters a lot more for a facility than it does for a freelancer.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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James Ewart
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 3:31:26 pm

For sure if you have a tool and workflow that is tried and tested then why, unless there is a very good reason, change it? I get that.

But then there are others who resist change because they don't like change.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 4:03:54 pm

[James Ewart] "But then there are others who resist change because they don't like change."


James,

It's just as easy to invoke the ghost of those who trumpet change for change's sake.

There are tropes that come up constantly in this forum - they're usually brought up without support to make some ideological point in preaching to the choir.

The ideological noise is the least interesting aspect of this forum for me, and thus I make efforts to dampen it when I can.

Franz.


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James Ewart
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 4:40:26 pm

Hi Franz I coud not disagree with you at all there which is why I prefaced it with:

"For sure if you have a tool and workflow that is tried and tested then why, unless there is a very good reason, change it? I get that".

I resisted even looking at X for quite a while before I made the decision to criticise it from an informed point of view. Having informed myself I changed my mind! But I am not a broadcast or mainstream editor so of course my needs are different to many.

There are though a fair smattering of Luddites out there.

I agree it's a slightly tired debate and apologise for taking it that route.

http://www.jamesewart.co.uk


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 5:11:46 pm

[James Ewart] "But I am not a broadcast or mainstream editor so of course my needs are different to many."

James,

I think one of the strongest ongoing themes of this forum is its testament (often well-detailed) into the diverse needs and workflows of different editors. In spite of this, the idea of there being a "best", "fastest", or otherwise "top" NLE (unqualified subjectively) still comes up routinely.

[James Ewart] "There are though a fair smattering of Luddites out there."

... some reflection on the Luddites.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/29273

Franz.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 6:13:40 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "... some reflection on the Luddites.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/29273

Franz."


You're always good for a blast from the past, Franz.

It's interesting reading back some of those older threads (and for the heck of it I even went back to 2011) and seeing how my basic position on X hasn't changed. When it meets my needs, I'll give it a look. X is getting closer, but still not there for me yet. And for those about to ask, "Well, what needs do you have that X doesn't address?" I'll save you the trouble. As a freelancer in LA I mainly edit on other people's gear and almost no one in my corner of the world is using X. Avid? Of course. FCP 7? Yes, still. PPro? Distant 3rd but growing. X? Distant 4th... very, very distant 4th. When it starts looking like I can make a living using X then I'll pickup X.


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James Ewart
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 6:47:48 pm

What we were taught in history about Luddites here in the UK more closely resembles the Wikipedia definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

My Shorter Oxford Dictional definition which reads thus for Luddism

"Intense dislike of or opposition to increased industrialisation or the introduction of new technology especially in the place of work".

Or Meriam Webster online

"One of a group of early 19th century English workmen destroying laborsaving machinery as a protest; broadly : one who is opposed to especially technological change".

I think what is unquestionably good is choice. l hope my scripts are not judged on the basis of the software or typewriter I use. My ability as a writer is all that matters. In my case that is undeniably a limiting factor by the way.

http://www.jamesewart.co.uk


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Walter Soyka
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 6:56:13 pm

[James Ewart] "I think what is unquestionably good is choice. l hope my scripts are not judged on the basis of the software or typewriter I use. My ability as a writer is all that matters."

This changes at the facility level. For a freelancer, product may be all that matters. For a facility, process matters just as much (and sometimes maybe more).

When writers are expected to collaborate, for example, Microsoft Word's "Track Changes" feature may be indispensable enough that you wouldn't hire an otherwise awesome writer because he was only used Smith Coronas.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Andrew Kimery
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 7:43:10 pm

[Walter Soyka] "When writers are expected to collaborate, for example, Microsoft Word's "Track Changes" feature may be indispensable enough that you wouldn't hire an otherwise awesome writer because he was only used Smith Coronas."

Just to riff on this (and I know this forum is where analogies come to die), editing, unlike writing, doesn't spawn from a vacuum. Footage has to exist before it can be edited and that mere fact automatically pushes the editor into a realm of technology and more often than not collaboration.

George R. R. Martin famously writes on a DOS-era computer using equally old software. How many editors could make a living today using hardware and software as old as that? Like it or not post production has to be able to react to what people want to do in production. If someone shoots in 4K and wants to finish in 4K post has to figure out a way to make that happen. If someone shoots using 6 different cameras, shooting 6 different frame rates & aspect ratios and recording to six different codecs post has to figure out a way to make it work.

I completely agree that from a creative aspect the editor is the most important part but from a technical aspect the gear has to well suited for the task at hand (especially when there are finite budgets and looming deadlines) or it's going to bog the whole process down and that will ultimately negatively effect the editor's ability to do his/her job in the amount of time given.

My favorite (yet of course flawed) analogy is this, I could run a marathon in high heels but why would I choose high heels over running shoes (especially if I'm a professional marathoner competing against other professional marathoners)? It's about the best tool for the job, not the bare minimum tool that can get the job done.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 8:04:11 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "My favorite (yet of course flawed) analogy is this, I could run a marathon in high heels but why would I choose high heels over running shoes (especially if I'm a professional marathoner competing against other professional marathoners)?"

That is easy. When you're done with the running, you're immediately ready for a night out on the town. Perhaps, this is to celebrate just how great you looked out there amongst all the other professionals. They won't be quite as prêt-à-porter as you, despite the dismal marathoning.

Jeremy


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Andrew Kimery
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 8:18:41 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "That is easy. When you're done with the running, you're immediately ready for a night out on the town. Perhaps, this is to celebrate just how great you looked out there amongst all the other professionals. They won't be quite as prêt-à-porter as you, despite the dismal marathoning."

lol. Made my day, dude.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 7:22:30 pm

[James Ewart] "What we were taught in history about Luddites here in the UK more closely resembles the Wikipedia definition ... My Shorter Oxford Dictional definition ... Or Meriam Webster online "

James,

Yes, but the smithsonian article is specifically addressing the broad understanding of the word (which is one thing), which is amorphous, noting for example that:

"People use the word now even to describe someone who is merely clumsy or forgetful about technology. (A British woman locked outside her house tweets her husband: “You stupid Luddite, turn on your bloody phone, i can’t get in!”)"


… an delving into the historical facts (which are another thing):

"Despite their modern reputation, the original Luddites were neither opposed to technology nor inept at using it. Many were highly skilled machine operators in the textile industry. Nor was the technology they attacked particularly new. … In truth, the secret of their enduring reputation depends less on what they did than on the name under which they did it. You could say they were good at branding."

… which may or may not be interesting in light of its use to describe certain straw men.

Franz.


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James Ewart
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 19, 2014 at 8:56:08 am

Thanks it's an interesting article.


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Steve Connor
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 5:33:56 pm

[James Ewart] "I agree it's a slightly tired debate and apologise for taking it that route."

Almost as tired as the endless speculation about sales figures

No sig on my posts as it's apparently very old fashioned


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Walter Soyka
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 5:52:22 pm

[James Ewart] "I agree it's a slightly tired debate and apologise for taking it that route."

[Steve Connor] "Almost as tired as the endless speculation about sales figures"

I wonder how many copies Apple have sold to Luddites.

I bought a license, so presumably at least one...

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 6:04:44 pm

[Steve Connor] "Almost as tired as the endless speculation about sales figures"

Steve,

Fair comment. But the information that the speculation is based on isn't tired.

I've got a post about that when I have time.

Franz.


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TImothy Auld
Re: UK NLE Survey
on Aug 18, 2014 at 6:20:22 pm

Ridiculously so.

Tim


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