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A must read from one of the Shake dev team

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Bob Woodhead
A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 28, 2011 at 10:01:35 pm

http://digitalcomposting.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/x-vs-pro/


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Alex Hawkins
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 28, 2011 at 11:25:51 pm

Thanks Bob for posting this.

Absolutely says it all.

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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james carey
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 28, 2011 at 11:38:27 pm

well stated. thank you for posting.

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/


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Jamie Franklin
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 28, 2011 at 11:44:43 pm

Appreciate his personal experience and all, but this is nothing like Shake...

If Motion replaced Shake, and if Apple promoted it to replace Shake, then I would say the comparison makes sense...but they didn't.

Shake sold thousands of copies and was a cog in the wheel...while it had it's burden and impact eol'd...

FCP 1-7 sold millions of copies and was the wheel...


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Bob Woodhead
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 12:57:20 am

Shake and Motion are two very distinct beasts, and Motion was hardly a replacement for Shake. But that's not the point.

The point is whether Apple wants to maintain and grow market share in the professional venue.

From Apple's actions EOL of Shake, Color, Server, DVDSP, CinemaTools, the removal of FCS3 for sale at the launch of XFCP, and now, the comments of someone who was on the inside of Apple's decision-making process, it appears the answer is NO.


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Jamie Franklin
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:08:21 am

[Bob Woodhead] "Shake and Motion are two very distinct beasts, and Motion was hardly a replacement for Shake. But that's not the point."

....huh?

I think you missed my point. But no point in splitting hairs...

The comparison doesn't make a lick of sense, no matter how it's spun really, because FCP had a dominance that really sets it apart. And the thing is, Apple isn't trying to leave it in the dirt, they are trying to force an inferior product on us....and their history may give clues to their intentions, but none of us know where X will go yet. It has some features I have to admit, buried in there, for a potential future. Not the future I want to see with that bullocks of a timeline, but a future no less...

Everything else he's talking about is dead, and had no place being really compared to the smashing success of FCS. Despite the claims...it made Apple billions...Shake probably was a loser...

But, as I will now go back to my original theoretical comparison, IF Motion was *branded* as a replacement to Shake, we can make that leap...but it wasn't. (it could easily have been, look at the differences with FCS3-X, but this is simply the point of the bullocks Apple just pulled) FCX IS being *branded* as a revolution to FCS...and it isn't...it's 50 steps back, 4 steps forward...but it's that forward momentum I don't think anyone should discount yet, it's too early to make a judgement....although, I do agree, it's not looking "bright"...but perhaps the scope of this backlash will change that.

I guess in the end what I am trying to say is, have they ever really *lied* this absurdly about a product before..? They didn't roll out a Motion like beast calling it Shake 2 and trying to pass it off as such...they just killed it...this is a real brain twister...


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Shawn Lloyd
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:26:19 am

The point I have taken from his article is not to build a business around Apple software. They don't have the same stake in it that, say, Adobe or Avid has. And that's why I'm not going to use FCPX. Ya just can't trust'em. Don't get me wrong, I love the hardware and OS. Unfortunately, the same nimble business model that makes the rest of their company so successful also has a downside and FCP is it's victim. Probably. But who knows? Maybe FCPX will be the professional NLE of choice again in 3 years. I'm just not going to wait around for it.


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Jamie Franklin
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:21:23 am

The point's not abstract it's just SO bizarre...it's like they want to fail to succeed. Ya know?

This is the only real reason I give *some* credence to Jobs health...as much as this cat thinks Job's couldn't care less, with reason, I still think there is evidence of Job's hyper-reactions to that fail to succeed type of thing with the recent mobileme revelations...

We're all just speculating on a product that ISN'T EOL...although it might as well be, it still has a chance to pull around, and I think this backlash will help it...I mean, I hope...


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Brad Bussé
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 6:24:10 am

Jamie, while you make some relevant points about the differentiation between the death of Shake and the current situation with FCP's death and it's replacement with FCX, I think your perspective is distinctly separated from those who watched the excruciatingly slow death of Shake at the hands of Apple. You clearly don't realize the massive impact of Shake. It was the absolute industry standard for compositing for forever on all feature films.

Apple bought Shake, spent some time implementing some very useful utilitarian updates, and eventually abandoned it. From a monetary/PR/user install standpoint, FCP is a much larger deal. But, for those who lived and breathed Shake only to see it suffocated, the attitude of Apple now regarding FCS toward the professional market is a sickening deja vu. Shake users wouldn't have been so angry at Apple if Apple had just said, "hey, we've given up on Shake because it's now too small of a market and we can't charge the exorbitant licensing fees that we had expected to, due to changes in the market", or "hey, we've decided that we can make more money in the consumer and prosumer markets, so it makes no sense to continue supporting this product since we can make much more money in other endeavors, so we've decided to gut the stabilization and optical flow tracking technologies from Shake to apply to our AE ripoff which uses new technology which will revolutionize motion graphics with new flashy tech just like LiveType did, at the expense of end user customization (who needs freedom when you have cool templates!)." But instead, they let us all speculate for 3 years without a single statement about their future intent/roadmap, about the new-tech version of Shake code named Phenomenon, which Apple was widely rumored to have been creating. After awhile with no word from Apple, some users started to speculate that Phenomenon would be nothing more than an updated Motion with some Shake-organs implanted like a stem cell chimeric pig. Kind of reminiscent of the iMovie Pro debate, wouldn't you say? In the end, Nuke took over, EOL for Shake, still no word from Apple regarding their plans for a professional node-based Shake replacementm, which of course never materialized.

For the record, the blog that Bob linked to is written by Ron Brinkman. Check out his about page; one of original founding employees of SPI, one of the early designer/dev team members of the original Shake, and the author of The Art and Science of Digital Compositing. If you're not familiar with that book, it's the Bible of compositing.


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Jamie Franklin
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:10:11 pm

I was there. I'm now using Nuke. And I adore it. I don't remember however, Apple promising really anything all that much, it just "had" promise...I'm separating it because it is a bigger deal, to me, and this roll out of X was in my mind almost a complete fabrication....

My point was made, I got what he was saying and said I appreciate it, I'm not trying to argue it further. Thanks.


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Tangier Clarke
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:51:32 am

I've been getting along just fine with FCP X while very disappointed that some things are missing; only to the point that it's inconvenient to have to bounce back to FCP 7.

Tough in response, I'd say the main point I'd like to make is that so many of the arguments I here are on the premise that we all agree on what it means to be "Pro". I am not convinced that Apple killed a Pro app per say, but rather what it means to be pro is being reimagined as it always has been, is and will be by any company in or out of the productions/ post=production space.

FCPX doesn't make me less of a pro per say and except for obvious missing features, FCPX actually works a lot better for me in most of my tapeless work that FCP 7 did.

To someone I'm a pro, to other's I am not. The same goes for apps depending on who's perspective is being pushed; remember all the AVID folks screaming (and is some cases still do) about FCP being a toy.

I'm just an editor who loves what I do. I'll adjust as needed. Am I a pro? Hmmm. What's your budget? Just kidding!

If someone cut something in iMovie for me and I was non the wiser and the creativity and story shined, so be it.

Tangier


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Brad Bussé
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 6:25:05 am

Thanks for the link, Bob.

Thanks for your candid opinion, Rob.


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Martti Ekstrand
Re: A must read from one of the Shake dev team
on Jun 29, 2011 at 9:16:23 am

Compare with this:

http://jefferyharrell.tumblr.com/post/7022691098/a-story-as-yet-untold


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