FORUMS: list search recent posts

Thoughts on 10.1.2

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Oliver Peters
Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 2:25:25 pm

It's interesting that this update took SO long. There must have been a lot busted under-the-hood ;-)

It seems like ProApps has shifted into a refinement mode. That's great, but there is a noticeable lack of new features in the update. Does that signal to users that Apple is perfectly happy with the design and function of the app just the way it is? Meaning, it's unlikely that we'll see a better approach to mixing and/or some of the other features that folks here have been asking for.

Thoughts?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

David Mathis
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 3:02:30 pm

The most significant update in FCP X history came very late last year followed by a minor update four weeks later. At this point it appears that Apple is focusing on the new OS, thinking it will be a fall release. So my guess is minor updates for now, and perhaps something new later this year or early next year. Then again, we saw an update on a Friday which is a little unusual as Tuesday and Thursday have been the traditional choice for updates.

I just hope that the rumor FCP X will be getting the axe next will simply disappear.

"I am no longer pixilated!" -- Dave, former nut house patient


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 3:10:53 pm

[David Mathis] "I just hope that the rumor FCP X will be getting the axe next will simply disappear."

There is NO SUCH RUMOR other than what people have conjured up in their own minds based on the EOL of Aperture.

[David Mathis] "The most significant update in FCP X history came very late last year "

In the past, there have been a couple of big FCP X updates. The earliest was probably not an update at all, but rather the completion of things that didn't work at launch, which was essentially a public beta, as far as I'm concerned.

The update last year, was to change libraries. This was as much of an admission by Apple that their original approach was wrong, as you'll ever see out of Apple. Likewise, I think the change in this update about the date/time stamp naming constitutes the same thing. Basically, these are course corrections.

I suspect ProApps has their hands full with OS changes just as much as outside companies. The new XQ codec might have also thrown some curve balls that we aren't aware of.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


David Mathis
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 3:25:21 pm

[Oliver Peters] "There is NO SUCH RUMOR other than what people have conjured up in their own minds based on the EOL of Aperture."

This is what I was referring to.

I agree with you on the second point in its entirety. Overall very pleased with the direction Apple has taken. Still room for improvement in FCP X but it has improved significantly since its release.

I really enjoy reading your articles. Have learned a great deal from them, thank you.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 3:29:08 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Jun 28, 2014 at 3:31:53 pm

I guess I'm just not a glass half empty type guy. And I've always been of the opinion that the quickest path to constant disappointment is to come at things based on how you wished they were -rather than how they actually are.

This morning I've been all smiles.

X is stronger today than it was yesterday. It's capabilities keep improving.

And part of it is because one of the key workflow enhancements in this rev hits squarely in my day to day working life! The unexpected VoiceOver love I totally didn't expect!!! And it's awesome. I do a lot of professional narration and voice work and have been using X for all my VO recording for the past few years and being able to record alt takes directly into auditions alone is outstanding.

There's a thread on another board about editors who really miss import with handles and are disappointed that it didn't come back. And there's me, who got a massive improvement right in my wheelhouse.
Plus just read that my friend Phil Hodgetts is really excited about the new global Library level XML implementation.

Thats the thing. We ALL see the same tool and project that what's wrong for us is wrong for all. (and, of course that whats good for us is good for all! But that's seldom true.

Starting this morning, my daily work will be easier.

So the smile here is legit. I got a big present yesterday. Thank you Apple FCP X team!

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

tony west
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 4:01:20 pm

Bill, I'm glad you mentioned the VO record.


I have been using that for a while now and have liked the feature. I was wondering if anybody knew how to keep the track from going down in the storyline automatically.

I want it to just go into the event that I choose until I'm ready for it to go down there.

I don't want all the bad takes going down there. Maybe I'm missing something simple?

I like that I can drag right into that browser now and have items tagged. It's a little thing but faster to hit that bigger target than aiming for an event since I do most of my organization in the finder then drag and tag

Everything seems to be working smoothly so that's nice to.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 4:39:56 pm

[tony west] "I want it to just go into the event that I choose until I'm ready for it to go down there. "

Dare I say there's a need for an easy way to piece together parts of VO takes much as was possible in SoundTrack Pro.

Even better than dumping them straight into an Event, perhaps an area where takes are layered so they can be pieced together. Sure there are workarounds but, for me, this would be a common function.

I font the "Audition" idea is still geared towards picking the single best take whereas I often want to piece together parts of takes.

One might see it as something like "multicam" for audio only.



Return to posts index

tony west
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 6:29:30 pm

I like it going into the event, I just don't want it to go to the timeline at the same time.

I label takes with the first 3 words of the paragraph of the script so I can find them and drop them in.

As it stands now I have to go back and delete the tracks that land in the timeline. An extra unwanted step for me.

I fought I was just overlooking an easy way to do it but I don't see the answer so maybe not.


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 9:09:56 pm

It just works exactly like FCP 7. It's a VO tool, meant to record VO while you playback video and audio. However that doesn't mean dropping it in the tl shouldn't be an option. When I use it I go to the end of the TL so it's easy to delete as well.


Return to posts index


Marcus Moore
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 3:29:16 pm

Yes. It seems like the last two update have been very focused on fixing foundational issues, primarily around media management, which I'm sure we can all get behind.

Whether that is something that had to be addressed first, before moving on to other things; or whether a more full-featured audio solution just isn't ready yet, or relies on some Yosemite features to implement they way they want to--- we'll never know. But I do hope to see some movement on that front in the near future.

I am satisfied though that the ever expanding trend of longer durations between feature updates has been reversed. We're 190 days since 10.1 launched, so that's way less of an interval than between 10.0.3 and 10.0.6 (266 days), or between 10.0.6 and 10.1 (428 days). On that track I think another, post Yosemite, update this year is pretty likely.


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 3:47:44 pm

My guess is that the all the feature updates from 10.0 to 10.09 were things that were in the plan from the beginning (minus a few they probably didn't think of like suspending connection points). Then through working with facilities and super users they discovered that the Events/Project setup they'd designed was not adequate to shared environment or media management so they redesigned the Libraries. Which led to this update which seems to be obviously taking advantage of the new paradigm to expand the media management capabilities.

I do think that they are working on additional solutions for audio (although personally, I think it's almost there), and I think there's stuff they want to do with project sharing or more facility based workflows. I think figuring out how to implement some of these type changes which aren't immediately intuitive are making features updates slower.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


Return to posts index

Lance Bachelder
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 5:10:34 pm

The big still missing item for me is some sort of mixer. I'd even take just a mixer that showed all the roles - treat roles like busses so I could add say a compressor to each buss and control the level of everything with the same role. The other solution and one one I'm probably gonna try soon is just using Logic and finishing all my mixes there. I don't own Logic yet but not happy with Audition so...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


Return to posts index


Richard Herd
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 5:22:33 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "The big still missing item for me is some sort of mixer. I'd even take just a mixer that showed all the roles - treat roles like busses so I could add say a compressor to each buss and control the level of everything with the same role. "

Exactly! And it should be easy for Apple to create a Roles Inspector.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 5:15:40 pm

I don't know enough to know - but does the, now complete, long four year walk back to what is once again effectively an FCP7 project file with basically everything else external if you want - right down to render files - solve the problems raised with the use of X in a shared facility? Or at least that it has as many or as few problems as 7 had that way?

The finder tags thing is nice too right? I remember people on here asking for that when tags were first introduced.

It seems hard not to notice it took pro apps the guts of two years to make a library file container and re-order xml tho.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 7:53:06 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I don't know enough to know - but does the, now complete, long four year walk back to what is once again effectively an FCP7 project file with basically everything else external if you want - right down to render files - solve the problems raised with the use of X in a shared facility? Or at least that it has as many or as few problems as 7 had that way?"

As of this update FCP X libraries are better than FCP 7 projects in this respect, as storage locations can be designated on a per-library basis.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index


Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 8:14:32 pm

Has anyone tried X2Pro yet?

To answer your question specifically, Aindreas, yes I think this goes a decent way forward towards larger installs if there are any larger installs still interested besides Scripps.

Libraries were a step in the right direction, but having proxy or optimized files meant long file transfers and made sharing Libraries a slower process than it needed to be, even if you decided to manually remove the media, and then recreate it at the new source.

I still think making a new library and dragging stuff in to the new library is better, but now there's the advantage of not having to dupe media, but still retain the Library advantages of extremely portable media options.

Also, it's cool we can select pieces and parts of a Library for XML transfers.

Finder tags will be awesome, at least they will be for me, to allow a bit of preorg right in the Finder without using X.

As far as this taking time, yeah, it's been taking some time. But as we've mentioned on this forum before, if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.


Return to posts index

James Sullivan
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 8:21:58 pm

I used Xtopro for a feature doc and it worked great. I just wish FCP X would do it natively.

James



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 8:42:54 pm

You've edited a feature with 10.1.2 already?

Wow.

I know X is fast, but that's crazy fast! ;)

I use x2pro, but haven't updated to 10.1.2 due to the new XML version.

Just wondering if anyone has tried x2pro with 10.1.2.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 3:29:16 am

I would love to know this. I'm only 1/4 way into a 40ep series on X, and I require both XMLs into Resolve (which I hear works fine), and X2Pro for ProTools, which I've heard will need to be updated for the new XML 1.4.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 10:03:36 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "As far as this taking time, yeah, it's been taking some time."

It's interesting to think what they could have got done these last two years - if they hadn't had to walk back the entire project/event/library/storage paradigm architecture. That feels, looking back, like a bit of a time sink for cupertino.

I thought Oliver Peter's point is interesting as to whether apple feel there is a need to perform any more major advances to X in terms of editing or audio handling say. Whether they think X is in their eyes largely complete with the work on the library file.
This is only interesting in terms of what apple tend to do to largely complete software. Given they will always need new software to sell new forms of hardware. Basically, if Apple think X is largely put together in their eyes - that notion should probably be accompanied with jaws music.

Once they get to a certain point, as with old FCP, old iMovie, the old pages/keynote/numbers, soundtrack pro, shake, they do seem to just sit on it - until they dynamite it and - selectively - start over. Farewell Shake and the rest of pro apps.

bar cash cow itunes - it's hard to think of any piece of software apple has actually chosen to actively develop past around 5-6 years - FCP was the outlier, but it barely advanced past 6-7 - that it hasn't outright killed or radically reformulated? Sure how long is X on the market now?

I thought it was fascinating that they apparently considered iphoto on iOS a failure given complexity - hence photos - and you would be very curious to hear their thoughts on iOS imovie given they are apparently opening the icloud gates to iOS video too.

with their thoughts turning to the iOS OSX continuity move - what could apple be thinking about FCPX and imovie as regards shared consumer storage for consumer video files? Now that they are fashioning a shared iOS OSX photos app environment for stills? Could X and imovie come a cropper in a year or two? That would be close to the 7 year apple itch to nuke the software. As an iOS lead company, you'd think their metrics on iOS video recording vs iOS imovie editing would be super interesting to them.

could there be another year zero looming for video apps on iOS/OSX?

But no - no doubt Apple will be greatly hard at work advancing all aspects of FCPX for many, many years to come. Businesses can be assured of audio advances, loudness meters etc.

Sorry. I sort of couldn't resist. feels like telling a campfire ghost story to X users.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 28, 2014 at 11:51:50 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Sorry. I sort of couldn't resist. feels like telling a campfire ghost story to X users."

I tend to be in the camp that feels an X/iMovie hybrid could appear down the road. I don't think that would necessarily be a non-pro product, just as I don't think Photos will be completely consumer-oriented.

One inkling is the development of the ProRes 4444 XQ codec. That's clearly targeted at the upper-end pro, non-cloud world. There's no reason to do that if there was no interest in the pro enterprise world - at least at some level.

OTOH, since Apple gets licensing fees for ProRes when a camera manufacturer uses the codec family, they could benefit from it, even if there were no FCP X. Clearly ProRes has become a ubiquitous codec. Not to mention that handling this data rate puts it into the MacPro/Thunderbolt2 world.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 1:39:42 am

[Oliver Peters] "One inkling is the development of the ProRes 4444 XQ codec. "

you'd think the fact that apple are executing mad large scale annual manufacturing, with the code/apps as a conjoined process is being ignored.

If you love software, you make you own hardware - per jobs quote - but the issue is the manner in which, and for how long, you love any development specific instance or incarnation of that software tied to already sold aluminium lumps. you're maybe talking a six year old car. you might support it, but you will never advance it. Pro Apps is an apple hangover.

What apple loves, needs and wants is the presentation of ever now software with current hardware, that has a rhythm. that makes sense - seven year old software never will.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 7:28:47 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I tend to be in the camp that feels an X/iMovie hybrid could appear down the road."

FWIW... they are the same underlying app/code base. iMovie just has a different UI and only a basic feature set enabled. I believe this is also the case with Garage Band and Logic, though I haven't poked around in the packages...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 8:03:05 pm

I don't think so with Garage Band- The Logic Pro guys are way off in Germany. I don't think they're being developed by the same team. Can you even import GarageBand sessions into Logic?


Return to posts index

Robert Gilman
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 8:53:14 pm

AFIK GarageBandX is LPX-lite just the same way that iMovie X is FCPX-lite.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 4:35:51 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "It's interesting to think what they could have got done these last two years - if they hadn't had to walk back the entire project/event/library/storage paradigm architecture. That feels, looking back, like a bit of a time sink for cupertino.
"


Did they walk it back, or was this the plan all along? For me, it feels like a measured plan. It's been a bt rough-shod at times, but the capabilities of Events have simply been folded in to a more powerful (and Finder logical) Library.

You have to remember, this is a brand new architecture, built on brand new and changing OS foundations, this may be as fast as they can go, or at least as fast as they want to go. They are also writing a new XML language to express this new format in a text language, as well as developing industry standard codecs for expensive post and acquisition.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "could there be another year zero looming for video apps on iOS/OSX?"

Of course, there is. Wouldn't you expect it at this point? And if there is, will we not survive it? Again?

I'm not worried about it, but I do feel that FCPX is going for the longer haul. At some point, they will need to nuke it when it doesn't make sense anymore. For now, and this will sound corny I'm sure, I look at how my 2 year old son is already interacting with the world. He doesn't pick up the phone and call grandma, he talks to her on a video chat, and asks to video chat almost every day. This is how he will know the world, in moving pictures and sound, and he will be able to share those experiences instantly to whomever he wants through a wide array of options.

I'm not saying that FCPX was created for this reason, but I do think it is geared towards that type of potential, and less about loudness meters.

At least there are options out there if X isn't lining up with expectations.

Jeremy


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 4:53:53 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Did they walk it back, or was this the plan all along? For me, it feels like a measured plan. It's been a bt rough-shod at times, but the capabilities of Events have simply been folded in to a more powerful (and Finder logical) Library."

Huh? How can you say that? The Events/Projects structure is completely different than Libraries. Especially since there was no way in the original to go into folders below the top of a drive. Seems pretty obvious that the first approach wasn't working and had to be modified. Otherwise, why would you have lost the skimming ability that used to be there in the Project libraries? It was basically dumped and wrapped into the Events.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 5:03:22 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Huh? How can you say that? "

I can guess just like everyone else.

In the beginning, Events and Projects were much less flexible. You don't think that may have been on purpose?


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 5:28:42 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "You don't think that may have been on purpose?"

Nope.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 5:34:51 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Jun 30, 2014 at 6:47:05 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Nope."

OK. I do think it was on purpose. Whether that was through the OS not being ready, not having enough time to sort out Libraries before the launch, or because it may have been a purposeful and measured release in building a new platform and chose to launch features slowly.

It's much easier to say that they didn't take the path on purpose and it's easier to say that Apple is incompetent, as it's obviously a much more plausible conclusion with limited information. People are idiots, right?

The truth is, we will never know.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 7:52:57 pm
Last Edited By Craig Alan on Jun 30, 2014 at 8:05:33 pm

Since this a pro forum, let's assume that Apple is sincere about FC being a professional App (that even non-pros can afford/use). Why then would they fall behind CC in features by re-writing its organization structure ... twice? And I think this probably was made way more time consuming by coming up with almost seamless updates of previous versions of FCP X. (too bad they didn't do that for FCP 7). That is the program took care of updating your libraries/projects/events, allowing them to open in the new version. For me, both updates have been near perfect in this regard. Didn't miss a beat and downloading from the app store worked well too, even when I have reinstalled the app as a fresh install.

My guess is that in the long run they see media management as the biggest thing there is for any artistic eco system. They have bought into 4K being the next standard and although 4K may or may not become ubiquitous, file sizes are getting huge and storage is becoming huge and keeping track of it all will prove more important than any other feature. There is no more tape you can archive and reimport into your new NLE or new raid. You loose or can't find or corrupt your data, you're dead in the water.

My guess is they thought putting it on the root level of any drive made sense. It is a common feature of cloning apps to allow root level stuff to stay put even if all else was being rewritten. It's easy to find root level stuff. But it was a simplistic idea to have all projects in the same container. It worked for email and iPhoto and iMovie and the code was already there so they used it. But it was not practical.

The idea that the same app can be used for pros and beginners I think (if they are sincere) can be revolutionary. Why not continue to evolve as an editor using an app you already know? The one mistake they have made in this respect is instead of educating the beginners with the vocabulary that are used by pros, they have this habit of renaming everything. Then again so does every other manufacturer of pro gear. It's marketing. Wrong headed. The more you confuse people the more they might feel intimidated and not want to buy a piece of pro gear, even though it would prove much more satisfying in the long run.

Case in point: I doubt very much that your average non-pro camera user, uses more than a tenth of the menu items on a consumer level cam. All these presets for different scenes and letting them control one manual function while the cam handles the rest and so forth. It's a confusing mess. Now pro cams are pretty menu deep too. But give a beginner a lens that has a ring that when twisted increases or decreases the amount of light that reaches the sensor and you can see the effect on the LCD screen and bingo the next thing you know they understand F-stop and aperture and exposure levels. I know this. I teach kids consumer level and prosumer level cams all day. I teach them how to use the menu stuff on the consumer cam and they leave it on auto 99% of the time and sometimes it works and mostly it don't. I give them a prosumer cam and the feedback and result of using just that one ring is like night and day.

Professional equipment should be easy to use on the elementary level. How many people never learned to cook because the pans they sell to consumers have such crappy heat characteristics that you'd need to be a genius to get a decent meal out of them.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 8:50:47 pm

[Craig Alan] "Why then would they fall behind CC in features by re-writing its organization structure ... twice? "

I think this is the difference in opinion.

Some may see it that Apple "rewrote" the organization twice, but what if those releases were planned? Events and Projects are now wrapped in to Libraries. It's not like Events and Projects disappeared completely, rather, they simply had more functionality added to them, along with the media management to come with it, and the Library container. I think that this was planned, see Marcus's point about Libraries requiring Mavericks.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 9:02:59 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "It's not like Events and Projects disappeared completely, rather, they simply had more functionality added to them"

Actually, no. The Projects library disappeared completely and the current implementation of Projects is just as part of Events. Projects as a separate entity lost capabilities. I, for one, think what they did was correct, but others, like Bill might disagree, since the previous layout worked well for him. There's no explanation of why it wasn't like that to begin with, other than this was a course correction. Either they found out the Events/Projects layout had painted them into a corner or they acquiesced to user feedback.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 9:12:13 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Either they found out the Events/Projects layout had painted them into a corner or they acquiesced to user feedback."

Maybe a bit of both. I liked the functionality of the project browser, despite it's limitations. And those limitations could probably have been ironed out. But maybe improving the original idea was not going to work given what users seemed to want so they decided to take it in a different, "simpler" direction. Only Apple knows. Works pretty good now though. Only thing about the original organization I miss is skimming/playing projects without opening them. Hopefully that'll return..

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 9:15:36 pm

[Oliver Peters] "The Projects library disappeared completely and the current implementation of Projects is just as part of Events. Projects as a separate entity lost capabilities. I, for one, think what they did was correct, but others, like Bill might disagree, since the previous layout worked well for him."

The Project browser disappeared, yes, but Projects themselves, the naming and convention did not disappear. The Project structure and idea was incorporated in to Libraries, not entirely excommunicated. The data did change a bit because Projects are now called ".fcpevents" in the Finder which is probably what needed to happen, and I know you'll think I'm crazy, but I bet it was probably planned the whole time.

Since Mavericks seems to have been required in order for FCPX to have Libraries, then how could we have had Libraries before Mavericks? We couldn't, so they had to build the Project Browser and keep Projects and Events separate.

Once you had a Library, then the Project Browser didn't make any sense.

Projects themselves gained a ton more media management capabilities and made things easier with, snapshots/versioning, and being able to open and close a library unto itself instead of browsing all Projects at all times. But I guess we can agree to disagree on what capabilities were lost.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 9:25:52 pm

Libraries existed way before Mavericks. They did not have to wait for Mavericks to organize FC media this way.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 10:04:06 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Jun 30, 2014 at 10:05:05 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] " but Projects themselves, the naming and convention did not disappear"

That would have been rolling things too far back for Apple. "Projects" as a term is used in both Aperture and Logic, so it's consistent for their software, if not the industry.

[Jeremy Garchow] "The data did change a bit because Projects are now called ".fcpevents" in the Finder which is probably what needed to happen"

That's not a change! That's simply making it part of an event, which is what users were in effect doing anyway by editing compound clips inside an Event. FWIW - this is identical to Avid's structure, where bins are data files at the Finder level. An avid bin can contain footage, sequences or both.

And, they've been doing it since the late 1980's - way before Mavericks ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 11:26:19 pm

So you're saying fcpx libraries and avid projects are structured the exact same way?

Got it.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 12:45:19 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "So you're saying fcpx libraries and avid projects are structured the exact same way?"

Yes. Similar if not exactly the same. Event = Bin = data file.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 1:19:07 am

[Oliver Peters] "Similar if not exactly the same. Event = Bin = data file."

Except Events aren't available immediately to the user on the Finder. You can't import an Event from a library in to another library. Events aren't really bins, in my opinion that's an oversimplification.

You also can't store and manage multiple forms of media inside of an Avid project like you can an FCPX Library and move that media in or out at will. OR send a sequence with organization in tact.

They are completely different, and I'm sure you know it.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 2:01:18 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Except Events aren't available immediately to the user on the Finder. "

Sure they are. They are simply obscure as a bundle so you have to use "show package contents". You also have to do that with other apps, too, like Adobe SpeedGrade.

[Jeremy Garchow] "You can't import an Event from a library in to another library."

You can, though it copies, to keep the two events unique.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Events aren't really bins, in my opinion that's an oversimplification."

They are the same in that they are self-contained data files.

[Jeremy Garchow] "You also can't store and manage multiple forms of media inside of an Avid project like you can an FCPX Library and move that media in or out at will."

The main difference is that Apple puts them into the Library and Avid puts that folder into a separate Avid MediaFiles folder. In addition, with AMA, it can now also be stored externally. Avid supports various native non-Avid codecs with rewrapping, inside the MedaiFiles folder. Effectively AMA works just like importing media into FCP X, but leaving files in place.

[Jeremy Garchow] "OR send a sequence with organization in tact"

I don't know what you mean by that. With mirrored media, you can freely exchange only sequence bins between Avid MC users, same as with FCP X. Neither app allows you to send a sequence without anything else and have it work. FCP 7 did that. But both allow you to export a file (FCPXML and AAF) for just the sequence with links to media.

[Jeremy Garchow] "They are completely different, and I'm sure you know it."

I said "similar". You are insisting on "same". But you knew that ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 2:12:56 am

[Oliver Peters] "Sure they are. They are simply obscure as a bundle so you have to use "show package contents". You also have to do that with other apps, too, like Adobe SpeedGrade."

We are splitting hairs here, but on the Finder level, you cannot move one Event from one Library to another, or import an Event to a Library via the Finder. I mean you can, but FCPX doesn't recognize it.


[Oliver Peters] "They are the same in that they are self-contained data files."

Might as well though docx and pdfs in there too, then?

[Oliver Peters] "The main difference is that Apple puts them into the Library and Avid puts that folder into a separate Avid MediaFiles folder. In addition, with AMA, it can now also be stored externally. Avid supports various native non-Avid codecs with rewrapping, inside the MedaiFiles folder. Effectively AMA works just like importing media into FCP X, but leaving files in place."

You will admit that Avid's style isn't as flexible, the sneeze of resultant MXF files isn't as browsable, and that in general, FCPX's methods are much easier and intuitive though, right?

[Oliver Peters] "[Jeremy Garchow] "OR send a sequence with organization in tact"

I don't know what you mean by that."


I mean that when you send a sequence out to a new library, the keyword organization comes over to the new Library.

[Oliver Peters] "[Jeremy Garchow] "They are completely different, and I'm sure you know it."

I said "similar". You are insisting on "same". But you knew that ;-)
"


Well then maybe you didn't mean it?:

[Oliver Peters] "Yes. Similar if not exactly the same. Event = Bin = data file."


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 2:34:49 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Well then maybe you didn't mean it?:
[Oliver Peters] "Yes. Similar if not exactly the same. Event = Bin = data file.""


Are you missing the word "similar" in that sentence?

Look, this is an utterly stupid argument (cue Monty Python). I'm merely trying to point out that Apple saw a good concept and copied it. Maybe it's more flexible, maybe it isn't. It's more modern, so it would be a shame if it weren't better.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 4:12:43 pm

It's true, this argument is ridiculous, but I don't find a lot of truth to fcpx being a happy accident.

Released too soon? Maybe, but it doesn't feel like a mistake to me.

What gets lost and forgotten in these conversation is what fcpx can do.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 9:22:42 pm

So they decided to create a ton of development work for themselves and lost a lot of customers to Adobe by introducing FCP X before they were able to use the library system that was just introduced? I'll grant you that Thunderbolt was introduced with its future evolution mapped out. But if the current library system was part of FCP X's design from the get go why did it take this much time to write the code? Granted they have deep pockets and can buy top talent to write their apps, but I think this theory is both cynical and illogical.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 9:37:38 pm

[Craig Alan] "So they decided to create a ton of development work for themselves and lost a lot of customers to Adobe by introducing FCP X before they were able to use the library system that was just introduced? I'll grant you that Thunderbolt was introduced with its future evolution mapped out. But if the current library system was part of FCP X's design from the get go why did it take this much time to write the code? Granted they have deep pockets and can buy top talent to write their apps, but I think this theory is both cynical and illogical."

We see this problem for two very different points of view. The early versions of FCPX were the stepping stones.

They didn't create a ton development work for themselves, they were actually putting in the work developing it. Was FCPX released a bit too soon? Perhaps, but looking back, there was really no other way to do it.

As mentioned in a previous response, I don't know why it's taking so long. It must be hard work, or Apple isn't in a hurry, or, they are waiting for OS level functionality in order to make FCPX what they want it to ultimately be.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 12:31:58 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "They didn't create a ton development work for themselves"

You think that FC auto updating all FC libraries to be compatible with the new library structure took no time to develop? You think that the original version of FCP X could not have allowed storing media outside the project/event folders? You think different projects could not have been stored in different containers on the same drive? Very early on end users came up with workarounds that allowed both. It was a design decision. They were wrong and have corrected the mistake. Mavericks did not invent alias files, or library folders. It's interesting to me that they have announced the EOL of Aperture and IPhoto way in advance and made it compatible with the next OS while they develop an alternative app. They have even released the name, PHOTOS, and that they plan to integrate the pro and consumer app as one. Never did that before. This is not what Apple has done historically. They are evolving as a company. All the tech companies are moving towards cloud and mobile device integration. It's a mixed bag but they see it as do or die.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 1:09:40 am

[Craig Alan] "You think that FC auto updating all FC libraries to be compatible with the new library structure took no time to develop?"

No. You made it seem like they developed FCPX to be as it was and everything after that has been one big bug fix, and I am saying that that was the stepping stones to get where we are today. You said they created a ton of development work for themselves, those were your words.

[Craig Alan] "ou think different projects could not have been stored in different containers on the same drive? Very early on end users came up with workarounds that allowed both. It was a design decision. They were wrong and have corrected the mistake."

OK, for the third time. They weren't "wrong", I think it was the plan all along. We will continue to see this differently, and that's OK. We could argue that X was released a little early, but I also think that they had to force it out of the nest, or it would never fly.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 3:43:18 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "No. You made it seem like they developed FCPX to be as it was and everything after that has been one big bug fix, and I am saying that that was the stepping stones to get where we are today. You said they created a ton of development work for themselves, those were your words."

Changing how media is organized in FC is not a bug fix; it's a change in direction/design. And yes I think that doing that and keeping all existing projects in working order must have been a lot of work and I think they did a great job. I do not think they designed FCP X 10.0 with a media management system as a stepping stone for another. But they have changed it. And it works.

I think it may work so well that what was a weakness may become a competitive edge over Avid and CC. Combining flexible storage options with the most advanced metadata organization and creation is very powerful and needed in a world of massive amounts of data.

But there is nothing new about "libraries." I have a 10.7 partition that I can boot into that still has an iPhoto library folder that you can right click and "show the package contents" which when revealed includes things like an original media folder etc. You don't need Mavericks for a library to work. But Apple has really been pushing everyone to stay current. And considering the OS versions and updates and most other apps as well have been free and effortless to install, I think they are winning that war.

Stay current and reboot when we tell you to.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 4:35:40 pm

[Craig Alan] "But there is nothing new about "libraries." I have a 10.7 partition that I can boot into that still has an iPhoto library folder that you can right click and "show the package contents" which when revealed includes things like an original media folder etc. You don't need Mavericks for a library to work. But Apple has really been pushing everyone to stay current. And considering the OS versions and updates and most other apps as well have been free and effortless to install, I think they are winning that war."

It's not the Library container per se, I am sure it's SQLIte or whatever FCPX needs to run the database as well as any foundational elements like A/V Foundation, Core Data, etc. So while the Library container was possible, all the things you can do in FCPX may not have been without the upgrade to Mavericks.

I'm just saying, it's easy to say that Apple was "wrong" and is now fixing their errant ways. It's a much harder argument to make that this was the roadmap. You are right, it is illogical, but that doesn't mean it is a fallacy.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 8:14:21 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "They weren't "wrong", I think it was the plan all along."

With respect good Garchow - this almost feels like a variation on conspiracy theory - where you can see, at all stages, sense in incoherent events to match a personal need for external order.

wait - someone dropped something.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3rtyerfHZ1qir45xo1_500.gif

I'm a meanie.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 9:46:40 pm

Yeah, I know it sounds crazy. It is more difficult to ponder.

But could Apple have waited until June 2014 to realease FCPX 10.1?

No. Out the door it went, released a little early, with a plan to build it up over time.

Is that really such a far fetched theory?

It's just as far fetched as saying Apple was wrong and incompetent, and walking back the plan.

It's either half full or half empty.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 10:18:31 pm

the reason apple functions as well as they do is that they don't have microsoft time horizons of old - the original iphone was going to have a plastic screen until spring of the summer launch, as gruber recently reminded. That must have been an incredible few months for operations tim cook back in the day.

Apple are doing this as you see them do it Garchow. They're a live company with mad high standards, and I don't think they even believe in five year plans - microscopically observed 3-4 year horizons of potential hardware/power/storage inflection for sure - but no grand five year software plans. they're in a hot kitchen screaming at each other.

Apple are like this amazing public swan - they peddle like maniacs underwater. that's basically why everyone else is crap.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 2, 2014 at 1:28:51 am
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Jul 2, 2014 at 4:02:11 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Apple are like this amazing public swan - they peddle like maniacs underwater. that's basically why everyone else is crap."

Clearly, everyone else isn't crap.

There's no question that Apple isn't perfect. Your kitchen analogy is probably apt, and maybe you're right in the sense that other entities don't do enough internal yelling.

I'm not sure of you are mocking this view or not, you're good at that and the Internet shows no emotion, but my personal feeling is that fcpx wasn't an accident, or a mistake that Apple is reeling from, and this doesn't really have to do with any other entity being crap (or not).

Of course FCPX development is taking longer for those who use it want, but it's not a surprise.


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 2, 2014 at 3:35:55 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Jul 3, 2014 at 11:07:54 pm

Hey no - that was on the level.

edit: everyone else really is crap - no one else ever carried the entire game the way apple does. Apple walk out of their secret room and they call the game - they've done it three times now if you include media with the ipod.

everything else aside - as the incarnation of an explosion under jobs the iphone is basically Thor's hammer on the world.
There's no way he didn't know it on the day.

apple re-made software, hardware, and social computing at a stroke. Valhalla thunderstrike stuff.

and all they do is peddle and silently scream design at each other like maniacs underwater into the now.



http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 8:07:29 pm

Well, to be fair, it was Mavericks which enabled Libraries (since you can't have 10.1 on anything earlier)- so Libraries in their current incarnation couldn't have happened before last year.

But I agree with the sentiment that this was not planned. The last two major updates have been about establishing an entirely new foundation for media management. No one sets out to do that.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 8:13:55 pm

[Marcus Moore] "Well, to be fair, it was Mavericks which enabled Libraries (since you can't have 10.1 on anything earlier)- so Libraries in their current incarnation couldn't have happened before last year.

But I agree with the sentiment that this was not planned. The last two major updates have been about establishing an entirely new foundation for media management. No one sets out to do that."




I'm confused here, Marcus.

On the one hand, you say that they couldn't have Libraries without Mavericks.

On the other, you say they didn't plan on that and that happened by circumstance?


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 9:54:01 pm

My thinking that some form of unmanaged library would have been possible in 2011, since they exist in other NLEs. I'm just saying this particular implementation using these Library bundles specifically, wasn't possible before Mavericks.


Return to posts index

Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 10:02:25 pm

[Marcus Moore] " I'm just saying this particular implementation using these Library bundles specifically, wasn't possible before Mavericks."

Marcus,

Why not?

Franz


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 12:27:59 am

I'm not sure- but I know I read when it came out that 10.1 was required for the specific Library structure they were using- so (I believe) it's an OS level improvement.

I'll do some digging to see if I can find some more info.


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 1:59:45 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "But as we've mentioned on this forum before, if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

Just in case anyone has forgotten (though I'm honestly not sure how that would be possible):







Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Bob Zelin
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 12:51:13 am

Aindreas writes -
I don't know enough to know - but does the, now complete, long four year walk back to what is once again effectively an FCP7 project file with basically everything else external if you want - right down to render files - solve the problems raised with the use of X in a shared facility?

REPLY - this has been my favorite cow thread in a LONG time. It's because of this thread that I watched all the tutorials on the 10.1.2 updates, and the new libraries stuff. I CANT WAIT to hear from John Davidson on all of this (who is STILL using sparse disk images). FINALLY, this could now (possibly - what the hell do I know) resolve all of these issues that have been going on for years.
You can finally put stuff where you want it - gee, what a concept !

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 3:56:46 am

I like sparse images still because my needs are the opposite of many environments. Running a school lab means many people share the same computers but do not want the same media/libraries shared with others. With images I can control who sees what.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Mitch Ives
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 2:48:15 am

Excellent thoughts Oliver.

I do like what we just got... some small things that are huge for some of us. Is it enough... I guess that's a subjective thing.

The "refinement" thing is a good point. As someone else pointed out, it does seem that Apple lost a lot of time changing the whole file structure thing. Someone else's theory that they initially designed it the way that made sense and then realized that they needed to change it to facilitate group workflows makes as much sense as anything I've heard.

I'm hoping that all the new features are waiting on the new OS. If not, then you're refinement theory could be spot on...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


Return to posts index

Marcus Moore
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 3:44:22 am

I think it's too easy to assume that any of the bigger feature wants (mixing, UI enhancements, collaborative workflow) are waiting for the next OS update.

Well, Collaboration maybe... Since if Apple has a collaborative workflow in the works it will certainly be tied to iCloud- so recent enhancements there could be the key to better multi-editor situations.

Before the 10.1.2 update was released this week, many here and on other forums were convinced that it wouldn't make sense for Apple to update now before Yosemite was released, potentially in October/November. But I can't imagine that everything we're looking for needs unreleased code to happen.

Of course, with 10.1.2 now out, I don't think we'll see another feature update before Yosemite. Maybe a quickie 10.1.3 bug fix during the Summer, but if there's another feature update planned for this year, it will be on the other side of Yosemite and probably VERY LATE in 2014.


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 11:54:46 am

[Oliver Peters] "It seems like ProApps has shifted into a refinement mode. That's great, but there is a noticeable lack of new features in the update. Does that signal to users that Apple is perfectly happy with the design and function of the app just the way it is?"

Perfectly happy? Highly doubtful. But what other app gets huge new features with every release? And for me, tighter integration with Motion is MUCH higher on my list than an audio mixer. Never used it in 7, so I don't miss it here.

Good, solid update. Consolidating it's position, if you will.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 29, 2014 at 1:10:24 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "But what other app gets huge new features with every release?"

Premiere Pro.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 10:49:06 am

uh, no. ;-)

While I heard there was a CC release recently and Premiere just got a few, most were to AE. Is this not true?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jun 30, 2014 at 11:23:10 am

[Scott Witthaus] "While I heard there was a CC release recently and Premiere just got a few, most were to AE. Is this not true?"

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/whats-new.html

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Dennis Radeke
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 3:35:50 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "uh, no. ;-)

While I heard there was a CC release recently and Premiere just got a few, most were to AE. Is this not true?"


I would have to say that while we strive to put a lot of goodness into every release, if we are to compare feature and workflow improvements, Premiere Pro is the winner here.

While Walter hits it on the head as usual with the link, I'll just mention a few of the top things for this release that stand out to me.

AE integration - allowing Premiere Pro editors to change text layers of After Effects projects without launching After Effects.
Master Clip FX - adding FX to the entire clip, so that everytime you cut in a subclip from the original media, it contains said FX.
Masking and tracking - You now have the AE mask tracker and basic mask tools on basically every effect inside of Premiere Pro.

Of course there is new format support and lots of little things that add up for me like DCP packaging, AS-11 (Europe DPP standard), media browser favorites, etc. etc.

In the end, the link is the best thing to explore...

Cheers,
Dennis - Adobe guy (on PTO)


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 8:24:32 pm

Thanks, Dennis. Looks like to me you all should merge the two into one product! ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 8:34:19 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "I would have to say that while we strive to put a lot of goodness into every release, if we are to compare feature and workflow improvements, Premiere Pro is the winner here."

There definitely is a plan to make the pieces contribute to the whole. For example, DCP creation in AME benefits Premiere. Master Clip effects in SpeedGrade also gets passed back to Premiere. So you really can't just look at the new features of one product. Rather, you have to look at the group, because they are intertwined.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 9:12:17 pm

[Oliver Peters] "So you really can't just look at the new features of one product. Rather, you have to look at the group, because they are intertwined."

they don't half seem to be stretching their arms.
you'd think they are starting to buy the implications of a prime market editing platform. Al Mooney should have something pinned on his shoulder.

they only need around four million to 2016-17. Roll everything -but the dead web grab- up out of adobe and there's no way way you don't have four million.

premiere pro is increasingly savage to me personally.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 1, 2014 at 11:16:59 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "premiere pro is increasingly savage to me personally."

That's a good thing, yes?


Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 2, 2014 at 12:19:58 am

[Tim Wilson] "That's a good thing, yes?"

yes indeed. I don't know other people's thoughts on it, but I'm immediately fond of it.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 2, 2014 at 12:25:12 am

[Tim Wilson] "[Aindreas Gallagher] "premiere pro is increasingly savage to me personally."

That's a good thing, yes?
"


You mean like bad meaning bad, not bad meaning good?

(That is)


Return to posts index

Dennis Radeke
Re: Thoughts on 10.1.2
on Jul 3, 2014 at 1:47:57 am

[Oliver Peters] "There definitely is a plan to make the pieces contribute to the whole. For example, DCP creation in AME benefits Premiere. Master Clip effects in SpeedGrade also gets passed back to Premiere. So you really can't just look at the new features of one product. Rather, you have to look at the group, because they are intertwined."

Agree 100%. We do tend to focus on workflows as a whole and less on 'features' My point was that if you took 'features' vs. 'features' in various Adobe applications, Adobe Premiere Pro would probably win in this release. But you bring up an excellent point Oliver - thanks.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]