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Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**

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David Cherniack
Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:18:21 pm

a) it's painfully slow but more importantly. .
b) referees' horrible calls all too frequently decide the game.

Case a) above in today's game. I fell asleep in the 1st half.

Case b) above in today's game. The ref gave the winning penalty kick goal on a clear dive. This offends our North American inflated sense of justice. It's not for nothing that we happily accept 5 minute waits while refs review and often overturn wrong calls.

And before some soccer wonk mentions the 3rd Brazilian goal it never would have happened without Croatia pressing for an equalizer to the unjust penalty kick.

Oh yeh I forgot. Equally annying:

c) the announcers and commentators glossed over the referee's poor call and celebrated the penalty kick as if it was some miraculous achievement. It shouts of a corrupt insincerity that easily equals FIFA's greedy old men.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:45:37 pm

Yeah...NFL referees never make bad calls that allow teams to win when they shouldn't have. Never happens in American professional sports.

Although lately basketball players are trying all that "dive" crap in order to get penalties...and they are as obvious as the soccer ones. But the NBA refs are having none of it.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:59:42 pm

NFL players take dives all the time but it's easier to hide since there's so much contact in the game.

Here's one of the most obvious examples. The Rams were easily moving the ball in their hurry up offense so two Giants players fall down at the same time to force a stoppage of play.





example


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:33:00 am

[Andrew Kimery] " The Rams were easily moving the ball in their hurry up offense so two Giants players fall down at the same time to force a stoppage of play."

You can put money on the fact that the referees of that game were reviewed afterwards by the supervisor of refereeing and warned about it not being allowed to happen again.

The points is that refs will always blow calls. When it affects the final result of a game it's whether it's acceptable to the league and the fans. In soccer it seems, no one really cares except the losing team and they've just got to suck it up.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:01:40 am

[David Cherniack] "You can put money on the fact that the referees of that game were reviewed afterwards by the supervisor of refereeing and warned about it not being allowed to happen again. "

Probably not. It was kinda the joking talk of sports news the rest of the week and while faking an injury is a penalty (it falls under unsportsmanlike conduct) the refs are told to always err on the side of caution when it comes to player safety. What's most likely to happen is that if obvious diving like this continues then players will be fined after the league reviews game film. With that being said, coaches and players seemed to make it apparent that diving is routine in NFL games and it doesn't seem like that's going to change. The NFL has bigger problems to solve so I think they'll keep turing a blind eye dives.


[David Cherniack] "The points is that refs will always blow calls. When it affects the final result of a game it's whether it's acceptable to the league and the fans. In soccer it seems, no one really cares except the losing team and they've just got to suck it up."

I think lots of fans care but it's whether or not FIFA does anything about it. For example, massive fan outcry over a couple of blown goal calls in the 2010 World Cup is the reason that goal line cameras have finally been adopted by FIFA. I do agree that soccer would be helped by a replay system. In the time it takes to setup a free kick or penalty kick a replay official should easily see if a foul was/wasn't committed.

I think the stumbling block is strong traditionalists currently running FIFA and referees, in general, not wanting to be second guessed. It's pretty much the same reason baseball was the last major US sport to start using instant replay.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:23:46 pm

Go Giants! Two stunning Super Bowl wins over the Patriots. Was Manning "down" before the miraculous Escape and the subsequent Helmet Catch to crush the Perfect Season dreams of the Patriots? We in New York say Hell No!

Now, to keep it all relevant... does NFL films use FCPX for any of their pop-culture productions? The quick tailgate party sequences shot in the parking lot, cut and uploaded as part of their avalanche of imagery and filler outside of actual on-the-field coverage?

Doug D


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:22:58 am

[Shane Ross] "Yeah...NFL referees never make bad calls that allow teams to win when they shouldn't have. Never happens in American professional sports."

Of course it happens, but much, much more rarely than in soccer where it seems every third major game I watch is decided in some way or other by a bad call. In North American sports when a major event is decided by a bad call it's practically treated as a criminal act with league investigations and rule changes. In soccer the only people who get upset are the losing teams and their supporters. The vast neutral majority accept bad calls as a necessary part of the game. They're right. It is necessary as long as FIFA changes at the pace of a crippled snail. The NHL, which has a much smaller playing surface went to two refs a few years ago. The result is much fewer blown calls. They've also gone to coaches challenges and ref instigated play reviews with critical calls.

That fans accept the sorry state of things in Soccer is one major difference with fans of North American pro sports. I'm convinced it's also one of the major reasons holding back the acceptance of the game here.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:39:06 am

I agree that American sports are more willing to change and evolve over time to make things more exciting for the viewer - the 3 point line and 24 sec. clock in the NBA are prime examples. The NFL has changed radically over the decades and the days of leather helmets, laterals and sweeps.

I think for American's, we're used to seeing breakout plays where such as interceptions run back for touchdowns, stolen balls leading to slam dunks etc. None of this exists in soccer due to the ancient offside rule. I know, it's tradition, but it's really dumb. Could you imagine every time Blake Griffin was running a fast break he'd have to wait for a defender to get back before he could catch the ball and dunk it? The silly thing is there's a full-time goalie! How can you penalize me on a breakaway when I know there's always a goalie waiting to try and stop me?

The other insanely lame soccer rule is substitutions. Why can't players come and go as needed like every other sport? Limiting the amount of subs makes no sense.

I'm thinking of running for world leader... I promise, if you vote for me, I'll fix soccer and make sure all NLE's have tracks and audio mixers!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Dave Gage
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 10:18:36 pm
Last Edited By Dave Gage on Jun 13, 2014 at 10:19:08 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "I think for American's, we're used to seeing breakout plays where such as interceptions run back for touchdowns, stolen balls leading to slam dunks etc. None of this exists in soccer due to the ancient offside rule."

Amen. Fast breaks are exciting. Even cherry picking makes a game more fun with increased scoring.


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Tom Sefton
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 10:30:41 pm

Yeah that's not anywhere near what the offside rule is about. It's actual use is to make the game faster. Without it, strikers could literally goal hang and stand around in front of the oppositions goalkeeper waiting for the ball to come their way. This would force the defenders to sit deeper and make the game even slower. A defence rushing out to catch players offside makes players move around more and ensures that more skill is required for the final pass.

The only way it applies is for forward passes. Not sideways, or backwards or shots on goal. A fast striker that runs through on goal doesn't need to wait for anyone to catch up!


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:57:25 pm

[Tom Sefton] "This would force the defenders to sit deeper and make the game even slower. A defence rushing out to catch players offside makes players move around more and ensures that more skill is required for the final pass."

Plus, if the offsides rule didn't exist then you would never see fullbacks on over lapping runs which can provide some of the most dynamic and aggressive moments on the field.


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 12:58:20 am

[Lance Bachelder] "I think for American's, we're used to seeing breakout plays where such as interceptions run back for touchdowns, stolen balls leading to slam dunks etc. None of this exists in soccer due to the ancient offside rule. I know, it's tradition, but it's really dumb."


[Lance Bachelder] "The other insanely lame soccer rule is substitutions. Why can't players come and go as needed like every other sport? Limiting the amount of subs makes no sense. "

sigh...These 2 comments alone are usually what makes NA's ignorant about football. Sorry to pick on you Lance - it's truly nothing personal - but if you (plural) don't understand why these 2 things in and of themselves contribute crucially to make football the most interesting, tactical and exciting sport in the world then it is of no use to go on. Sorry.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 9:42:55 am

You adjust answered why us ignorant folk will never fully get into soccer - tradition. Everyone's afraid of a 12 to 9 score but for us lowly American's this would be great.

Thankfully every other major sport played in the US gets looked at by committee and changes happen over time to make them better for the fans and participants. No one here wants to see a 0-0 game, even hockey fixed that. It's about wins and losses - not points.

As far as the 150+ year old excuse about strikers hanging out by the goal - just keep them out of the penalty box - voila!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Tom Sefton
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 15, 2014 at 12:11:51 pm

They've tried the penalty box shtick with junior football. It just doesn't work. Kids still lurk around and don't move or use athletic ability to try and succeed. They just wait for the ball to come anywhere near them so they have a chance to score. Games slow down and consist of longer passing, slower movement, worse technique but occasional high scoring games where everyone can marvel at the 7-6 scoreline. You are missing the point, that the offside rule isn't to stop scoring goals, it's to speed the game up. If one player constantly stands on the edge of the penalty box, not altering their movement, the entire defence would sit at the same line on the pitch and the game would be contested over a larger portion of the pitch but with longer passing.

I can see how a proper non-corrupt committee would help evolve football through the use of video referees and proper referrals for diving/simulation after the game to involve lengthy bans, but I can't see that ensuring every game has 12 goals just to entertain a North American audience would be a good idea. Football is already the biggest sport on earth - it doesn't need to much modification, just an equality of refereeing decisions.

Maybe to reach a wider worldwide audience so it is a true World Series, Baseball could adapt its rules instead?

The other interesting thing would be the use of the draft system - I'd love to see how Premier League teams would cope with a draft....

Either way, give Rugby League a chance.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 16, 2014 at 6:38:47 am

Sorry not buying it. Prime example was the Swiss today goal at min 69 that was waved off for offside - not only a useless rule but also a bad rule as the ball clearly ricocheted off the defender. This was also the perfect place for instant replay which would have clearly show the blown call. I agree more refs are needed, at least 2 on the field (pitch whatever). But even if the ball hadn't touched the defender, in that situation with a ton of guys in front of the goal c'mon.

I'm also not buying the youth soccer "test". I doubt the paid pro's would be sitting back waiting to cherry pick a shot - but we'll never know if it would be better or not until it's tested at the highest level. And it's not just about scoring more goals - North American's are fine with low scores, even 1-0 scores as you'll find in baseball and hockey, but most are not okay with 0-0 ties - no matter how good the goalies are that's just lame.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Tom Sefton
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 16, 2014 at 9:32:48 am

Ah well, we'll send your thoughts off to the sports governing bodies and see what they think about removing the offside rule. Perhaps we could sketch some ideas out for how the new rules would work and then they might have a clearer idea of how football could be played instead. There are only a few billion people to convince, but it might work.

:)


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Mitch Ives
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:55:50 am
Last Edited By Mitch Ives on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:56:35 am

For me it's simpler, as I've had many discussions with people at the pub over this very topic.

1) Americans don't understand ties... there's a winner in every contest we support.

2) The local pub is over-run with people who are not regulars and who do not live in our neighborhood. The owner is figuring out that they tie up every table drinking water and the occasional cheap beer... preventing the rest of us from getting in...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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andy lewis
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:33:05 am

Your problems with "soccer":

1. It's slow
2. Referees make mistakes because decisions are not reviewed - "It's not for nothing that we happily accept 5 minute waits while refs review and often overturn wrong calls."

Got it.


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:04:12 am

[andy lewis] "Your problems with "soccer":

1. It's slow
2. Referees make mistakes because decisions are not reviewed - "It's not for nothing that we happily accept 5 minute waits while refs review and often overturn wrong calls."

Got it"


Got it? Don't think so.

"Slow" as in soccer is slow action with relatively few scoring chances compared to other sports.

That most fans are happy to trade 5 minutes to get it right and let truth, justice, and the American Way prevail rather than a mistake does not feel slow. Tension builds, after all.

North American football has the no action period between plays. The action speed during the play is blindingly fast, with every play designed to have the possibility of a score.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:24:06 am

Episode 170 of the Freakonomics podcast addresses this issue. Posted today:

http://freakonomics.com/2014/06/12/why-america-doesnt-love-soccer-yet-a-new...

My personal feeling is that soccer, and the rules that govern it, don't fit neatly in to tidy compartments all of the time, and Americans are too impatient to let go of the notion that sometimes shit happens without a valid explanation. Plus, there's not enough violence, the clock is always running, and stoppage time does not fit in to the American psyche. :) In short, it's too inexact for most Americans.

In the podcast, a British journalist that's now a professor at Tufts refers to soccer players as artists, but American soccer players as athletic and "workmen-like". The host says that only in soccer, would being called athletic become an insult. They also go in to some key cultural differences, which are pretty interesting.


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:32:09 am

Interesting take by a soccer writer on the decisive blown call in today's opener.

http://theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/world-cup/kelly-a-referee-undone-b...

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 7:18:09 am

Does the fact that it's called the WORLD Cup mean anything?

It's the single biggest sport on the planet...by a looooong way.

Can I help it if you just don't 'get' it.

...Go ahead, do your worst.

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 7:19:58 am

BTW it's called FOOTBALL.

...you know, cause you play it with a BALL and you kick it with your FOOT. . . .ahem!


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 6:42:38 pm

Yeah just like Australian Rules FOOTBALL - you know where you run with the "football" in your HANDS and pass and kick it similar to Rugby and American Football :)

I fully "get" Futbol - and I really like it - but I still hate some of the rules and I know the offside rule controversy will rage on all over the globe forever - it's not just Americans who don't like it.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Bret Williams
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:48:16 am

Have you tried trashing your preferences?


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John Christie
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:48:24 pm

[Bret Williams] "Have you tried trashing your preferences?"

Brilliant, drop the mike, leave the stage.


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James Culbertson
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:02:36 am

World football is a lot more interesting than American "football."

But then so is Basketball, Lacrosse, bike racing, and any number of other sports.

The only sports more boring than American "football," are baseball (by a slight margin) and golf.

I did find American "football" interesting in a communal kind of way for about a day last season... (I live near Seattle). :-)


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Steve Connor
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 7:29:02 am

Perhaps if we stopped the game every few minutes for an ad break it would make it faster.

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:13:14 am

See, all the Footiephiles in this brilliant and intelligent thread prefer to attack American sports for what they perceive as their slowness. They don't get that things like commercial breaks are beloved by the vast majority of us. Especially the ones that slip through the Loudness Act and tickle our ear drums.

What they prefer to ignore is the main thrust of the complaint: the gross injustices committed by blind and location challenged referees that change the outcomes of so many important soccer games. It's clear that no one outside fortress North America cares about faulty vision or injustice. If they did they would surely take musket in hand and overthrow the corrupt monarchy of FIFA and establish a new republic, a shining beacon of vision that has at least 3 referees on the field and allows 2 manager's challenges with video review. Until that happy day I vote that our children not be allowed to play the game until they sign an oath to reject it at puberty, as I, and all sane North Americans have done.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:22:34 am
Last Edited By Alex Hawkins on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:23:16 am

FIFA have finally allowed goal line technology to be used in this World Cup. A bold step forward into the modern era.

As for the refereeing...Well I guess we just have to keep on putting up with the odd injustice...

...a bit like American foreign policy really.

(will that be taken as a joke?)

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Steve Connor
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:59:21 am

[David Cherniack] "If they did they would surely take musket in hand and overthrow the corrupt monarchy of FIFA and establish a new republic, a shining beacon of vision that has at least 3 referees on the field and allows 2 manager's challenges with video review."

I would generally agree with that

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:32:45 pm

Sorry but I just don't see this kind of skill in any other sport...

...mmm Basketball...maybe?







Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Bobby Mosca
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:11:15 pm

Actually, I have different theories than has be posited thus far:

1) The US doesn't compete well at the international level, so the interest in the sport domestically suffers. Nothing kills turnout like a losing team, and that's what we have. (The reason for this, of course, is Title IX. While it has led to the success of the women's soccer on the world stage, its implementation in colleges have limited the number of varsity-level clubs, thus choking off the men's sport.)

3) Flopping. <---- This is the main reason, I think. And it isn't flopping, because that happens everywhere. You throw your hands up, fall down, and hope to draw the call. That's part of a lot of sports. But in soccer, they don't flop: They fake career ending injuries, then get up and sprint for the next hour. And it happens CONSTANTLY, making it impossible to watch. In a football game, a player goes down and the stadium goes silent. It's a big deal. And if a player did what these soccer players do over, and over, and over, and over again, he would get booed to no end and pelted with whatever the fans have on hand.


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David Mathis
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:15:14 pm

Just saw this on Jimmy Kimmel last night:







Soccer is boring to me. Golf can be interesting. As for tennis, what is the point of hitting an innocent, little yellow fuzzy ball, with a racket, back and forth over a net?

Jimmy packed a few good jokes in there.


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Steve Connor
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:03:00 pm

I love to read Americans debating about football, for us its about the game and not high scores, don't compare it to your football, you need to compare it to baseball, that's a slow sport. steeped in history as well.

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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Don Scioli
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 8:31:43 pm

As ESPN USED to say, "No one in America over the ninth grade cares about soccer."


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Bernard Newnham
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 8:56:47 pm

Despite being a British sport hater, I do understand the rules of football - the worldwide version not the American - but having tried a few times, I just can't work out the American one. There seems to be an awful lot of standing around.

Here's a famous explanation of how cricket is played. Perhaps an American on here can do the same for "football", or carry ball, as far as I can tell.


Cricket: As explained to a foreigner...
You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.
When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out.
When both sides have been in and all the men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!


Bernie


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 10:14:14 pm

What in N.A. is called "soccer" is a complex thing, that involves more than sport itself. You can't really look at it like you do at what you call "football", nor like entertainment. I think our football is a representation of what the world really is, while American Football is what we would like it to be. If you read the Odyssey you can see that the concept of valor is "aretè". The hero tries to achieve victory by any means, using lies, fraud, and whatever. No Knights, no stainless honor. The hero cheats and fights his way to success, no matter how he gets it. Ulysses does not fight Polyphemus in a loyal fight like a knife with his lance against a dragon. He cheats. Like he does with his wife, spending years in a way back home that could have taken much less if he had not stopped to lay with a nymph, a queen, a banshee..... The Olympus is filled with gods that can be jealous, build trouble for somebody they don't like, in perpetual jealousy with each other. And so is soccer. Powerful gods will help some teams and try to drown others. But David can beat Golia any time, due to the low score, while Serena Williams will beat n° 100 of the ranking 98% of the times. A referee can accord a penalty that can maybe decide the match because somebody with enough influence wants it to be that way. But a team that has shown to be much weaker can still win the game if they're lucky enough. In Italy, soccer is very important. I keep for a team that is on the wrong side, and gets defrauded by the system every year. Still, I like it, even if I get angry most of the times, just like the keepers of Croatia did yesterday because Brazil could not really loose the first match as they're the home team and social problems are occurring. In Europe, the top three or four teams of each National League win a money prize that will help them to enlarge the gap with the others. So they can buy more players, even just to keep them from playing with another team. The strong one gets stronger, and tries to make the weak weaker. I know American Football is much different, but maybe real life is not.
By the way, what was written in a previous post about offside is totally wrong. You can't pass the ball to a player of your team that is the nearest to the opponent team goal keeper, but you don't have to wait for anybody if you are just faster than the defenders and you go alone towards the goal.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 2:30:42 am

Well spoken, Fabrizio.

To summarize, and simplify, because it's the American way, soccer is decadent and corrupt, because it's true to life for most of the world, but Amercsn football is hopelessly optimistic because every play is designed to score, if executed perfectly, and Americans believe that the world can be perfected....just like (cough) FCPX...

So Americans (and by extension, FCPX acolytes), live in a world of naive, optimistic, delusion, while the rest of the world (and by extension other NLE users) are decadent but realistic. I think the difference is clear now.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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James Culbertson
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 3:27:49 am

[David Cherniack] "I think the difference is clear now."

Clear as mud.


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 8:04:50 am

David, it's not always easy to read and write in a language different from yours, so I can't catch if there's irony in the last part of your post. Just to make it clear, I never wrote or implied that Americans are naive, nor that Europeans and latins love corrupted ways. I am not that dumb. Since some were asking, I was just trying to explain why we, in Italy, and many other people in other parts of the world, accept a sport where athletes are taught how to fake a foul or pull a dive by their coach since they're in the junior series, where referee blow wrong calls and maybe not for real mistakes, where important teams get more "respect" when it's down to assign a penalty or not, even if we don't like it. Unless, of course, it's in favor of our team. And once the game is over, the debate over the referee call that decided last match can go on on on dedicated radios or tv channels or newspapers for one week, until the next game. By the way, a lot of people are invoking the instant replay to be applied on soccer, but the keepers of the game prefer to keep things this way.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 8:24:49 am

Don't worry, Fabrizio. My post was all irony except for the point about your post being well said. That was completely sincere.

I do really think however that North American sports fans are now so used to video review of contentious calls that it will hinder soccer's acceptance here on the same level as the other pro sports. There are just far too many blown calls that effect the outcome of matches. Brazil Croatia being the most recent. While the MLS has made some inroads, the league doesn't publish demographics of its season ticket holders, and I suspect the large majority are first generation immigrants with some second generation who absorbed the love of the game at the dinner table.

Baseball has finally implemented video review of some referee calls, forced by what fans now expect from other sports. If baseball can change surely soccer...well maybe.... but FIFA is as bad or worse than the IOC.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Michael Hadley
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 1:43:29 pm
Last Edited By Michael Hadley on Jun 14, 2014 at 1:47:54 pm

Video review is anathema to sport. Sports are about what the human body and mind can do; not technology. Bad calls are part of the game. They are imperfect. It can be frustrating but that's what makes it exciting, too.

One of the reasons I love soccer is that is so elemental and fundamental. No commercials, time outs, headphones, play cards strapped on to wrists. Did I mention no commercials?

If you want to get up and get a bag of Doritos in the kitchen every 10 minutes, don't watch soccer. You'll have to wait at least 45 minutes (plus stoppage time).


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 14, 2014 at 2:04:47 pm

[Michael Hadley] " Sports are about what the human body and mind can do; not technology."

There is a logical flaw in this statement. The two things are unrelated as defined by the context of the discussion.


[Michael Hadley] " Bad calls are part of the game. They are imperfect. It can be frustrating but that's what makes it exciting, too."

I understand the frustration part but exciting?. Exciting to see finely tuned athletes giving their all only to be screwed by a bad call? Perhaps the soccer players should be polled to see whether they prefer it that way. I don't think tradition-loving knobs in the stand should have much say in it.


[Michael Hadley] "One of the reasons I love soccer is that is so elemental and fundamental. No commercials, time outs, headphones, play cards strapped on to wrists. Did I mention no commercials?"

It depends on how you prefer to relieve your boredom :) The argument that soccer is full of strategy is nonsense. It's about 90% execution, 5% strategy, and 5% trying to get flops by the refs...ohh, I guess that last falls under execution.

[Michael Hadley] "If you want to get up and get a bag of Doritos in the kitchen every 10 minutes, don't watch soccer. You'll have to wait at least 45 minutes (plus stoppage time)."

You can always keep the bag by your side and flip over to Master Chef during the more boring moments of the game to keep the saliva flowing.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Tom Sefton
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 13, 2014 at 10:18:38 pm

Great game tonight with Spain v Holland though. 6 goals.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, for any Americans who just can't stand football, try watching Rugby League. Faster, exciting, insanely tough, brutal and full of enormous athletes who run into each other at sprinting speed for 80 minutes.

There is also Rugby Union - England v New Zealand tomorrow which should be a belter.


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Julian Bowman
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 15, 2014 at 12:07:20 am

It's called football.

It's the beautiful game.

It's in your soul or you just won't get it.



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Claude Lyneis
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 15, 2014 at 12:39:39 am

Soccer--Too much of a collective sport. No quarterback controlled by the coach. Americans like a dominant player (quarterback or pitcher or point guard).

I watched my son play soccer for years and tried to love it. Then he played a real American game-LACROSSE. Now that is fun to watch and even more fun to play and as someone said, The players get to wear a hat and hit each other with 6 foot long sticks.

Maybe someday it will achieve some status in the US sports scene. In the meantime, it is a challenge to film because the ball is small and it is the fastest game on two feet.


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Winston A. Cely
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 15, 2014 at 2:59:32 pm

Golf. I like to watch golf when I need to catch up on sleep. Soccer... not so much. ;)

Winston A. Cely
Editor/Owner | Della St. Media, LLC

17" MacBook Pro | 2.3 GHz Intel Core i7
4 GB RAM | Final Cut Studio 3 | FCPX | Motion 5 | Compressor 4

"If you can talk brilliantly enough about a subject, you can create the consoling illusion it has been mastered." - Stanley Kubrick


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Santiago Martí
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 15, 2014 at 3:44:29 pm

What Julian Bowman said above. Either you get it and love it, or you don't have a clue what's going on.
Go Argentina!

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X waiting for Dragon update, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CC, Assimilate Scratch


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James Patterson
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 16, 2014 at 10:44:34 am

Yes there aren't any fast plays in football.







Best

Paddy


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Richard van Harderwijk
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 16, 2014 at 1:51:14 pm

Not fast?

Did you see Robben in Netherlands-Spain last Friday? (I did, I'm Dutch :-))))

But then again, like it or not; its cultural I guess….


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Santiago Martí
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 16, 2014 at 2:56:48 pm

Robben, being from Argentina watching him playing scared me a lot.

Santiago Martí
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar
Red One M-X, Red Epic X waiting for Dragon update, Red Pro Primes, Adobe CC, Assimilate Scratch


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James Patterson
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 16, 2014 at 4:58:50 pm

I thought the video clip would be enough to show that my tongue was in my cheek ;)

Best

Paddy


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Richard van Harderwijk
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 16, 2014 at 7:38:15 pm

You're right, super speed. Nice goal!

Good competition


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 17, 2014 at 10:27:31 am

Here's a few Americans who like the game:







Jeremy


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Tim Wilson
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 17, 2014 at 4:42:27 pm

FWIW, the nation that's bought the most tickets besides the Brazilians is the good ol' US of A. I think because, unlike Europeans, it's really easy to get to Brazil from the US. The timezone is only an hour ahead of the east coast, too.

While the day-to-day interest in soccer is obviously not that high among mainstream Anglo culture, the fact is that World Cup ratings have always been fine. and this year, even better than "just fine."

The World Cup opening match was #2 cable show for the week, just behind Game of Thrones. During the week on a daily basis, it has been #1. That'll do.

Ratings overall were up over 2010, with the first-round US game up 37% over the first-round game in 2010. And again, higher ratings in 2014 vs. 2010 even before the US played a game.

For that matter, "North America" includes Mexico, a country whose World Cup bona fides are unimpeachable.

North America also includes Canada, where the World Cup is bigger than the Stanley Cup -- and that's with a team that hasn't been especially competitive.

But read that again: the World Cup is bigger in Canada than hockey.

Or curling.

For streaming, Akamai reports that the online viewership for the Canada vs. Netherlands match was almost exactly equal to the previous record for online sports viewing, the Olympics semifinal hockey game between Canada and the US.

Not to put too fine a point on it, depending on the neighborhood you live in, the idea that "America" doesn't care about the World Cup is nonsense. There's more to America than the mainstream, and, as the ratings are indicating, there's a lot more to World Cup fandom than immigrant communities of color.

And in addition to better-than-okay ratings in the US, recalling that North America does in fact include other countries, where no sports get higher ratings than world cup -- sorry man, for the World Cup, this isn't even close to true, even in the good ol' US of A.


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 18, 2014 at 5:42:45 pm

[Tim Wilson] "North America also includes Canada, where the World Cup is bigger than the Stanley Cup -- and that's with a team that hasn't been especially competitive.

But read that again: the World Cup is bigger in Canada than hockey.

Or curling."


Clearly, Timothy, you've been doing bad things to your brain. Bigger in Canada than hockey? That's hilarious. Bigger than curling, well maybe, but doubtful, and if so, only because those from the rest of the world outnumber those from Scotland.

[Tim Wilson] "For streaming, Akamai reports that the online viewership for the Canada vs. Netherlands match was almost exactly equal to the previous record for online sports viewing, the Olympics semifinal hockey game between Canada and the US."

A couple of things: a) online streaming just isn't that big here. b) you'd have to be desperate to watch a huge hockey match on a phone. c) Canada didn't play the Netherlands because Canada has a pitiable soccer team that didn't come close to making the World Cup. Portugal, however played the Netherlands and as there are maybe 300,000 Portugese living in Toronto, and most of them work hard for a living, maybe they're the ones who were watching the match in droves at work on their cell phones. Akamai doesn't breakdown streaming by ethnicity. It's probably illegal.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 18, 2014 at 6:17:59 pm

[David Cherniack] "Bigger in Canada than hockey? That's hilarious."

I was speaking strictly in terms of RATINGS, for the Stanley Cup vs. the World Cup, and the answer is, it's not even close.

For individual games, close, yes. But to take Game 1 of the World Cup, 2.8 million viewers. The FINAL game of the Stanley cup was only 500,000 people more than that -- and Canada hasn't been in the World Cup since 1986!

Taking the first seven games of the World Cup vs. the Stanley Cup, World Cup comes out ahead.

And the World Cup still has a long way to go, so the viewership of the World Cup will DWARF the Stanley Cup, even without a Canadian team.

Incidentally, World Cup ratings in Canada are up 60% over 2010.

Sorry man, the numbers are the numbers.


[David Cherniack] "Canada didn't play the Netherlands "

Quite so, it was Spain vs. Netherlands.


[David Cherniack] "300,000 Portugese living in Toronto"

Again, the record was set by SPAIN vs. Netherlands. In general, the Portuguese are not particular fans of Spain.

Even if they were, it doesn't change the basic facts of the thing.


[David Cherniack] "online streaming just isn't that big here."

ESPECIALLY irrelevant, because we're comparing like to like. Canadians watching.

USA vs. Canada in the Olympics should NATURALLY have attracted a big audience. And it did.

So IN CANADA, a WORLD CUP match that doesn't even feature Canada, very nearly equals the record-setting streams of a very closely watched Olympic hockey game.

And fwiw, it was around 2 million streams. Not close to the 15 million Canadian TV viewers, but streams don't measure viewers, so you'd need to multiply those streams by some additional number. Numbers of eyeballs, it's a lot closer than you'd think.

Ethnicity doesn't matter in any case. Canadians are Canadians. IN CANADA, the ratings for the World Cup are equivalent, when totaling ALL ethnicities, and in some cases, greater than hockey.


Otherwise, I'm mystified how this even matters. Even if you're saying that ONLY European, African, Caribbean, Asian, etc. communities within Canada are watching World Cup, and that NO Caucasians are watching, and that ONLY Caucasian "native" Canadians watch hockey, it's STILL irrelevant. More Canadians, as a whole, will watch World Cup games than Stanley Cup games, and even taken on a one-to-one game basis, the ratings are incredibly close.

With Canada's last appearance in the World Cup 1986!

World Cup ratings are up 60% this time, btw. Stanley Cup ratings have held relatively steady over the past 4 years. If this trend continues, in 2018, World Cup ratings will be fully DOUBLE Stanley Cup ratings.

ERGO, when it comes to the World Cup, it is simply factually WRONG to say that North Americans in general, or Canadians in particular, don't care about soccer, or care about it less than hockey. Simply wrong.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 18, 2014 at 8:47:46 pm







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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 19, 2014 at 10:13:28 am

Very funny. Almost as good as Tim's citation-challenged viewership stats for hockey vs soccer in Canada.

Tim,
No need to get into a pissing match over numbers. If you believe that your viewership stats support the fact that there's interest in the World Cup in North America I can't disagree. That doesn't however translate into year round interest in soccer. It's rather interest in a Big Event. Soon to be supplanted by the next Big Event.

There's lots of reasons why I don't believe soccer will rise to the level of other products sports in North America anytime soon. But my main argument in this thread has been that it lacks the modern review procedures of referreeing decisions that people here have come to expect... that mostly prevent the blown calls that frequently affect the results of matches. My starting this thread was provoked by precisely that happening in the marquee opening match. On the argument that soccer referreeing is woefully subject to poor calls there's almost no disagreement. Even Sepp Blather (sic) has recently mused on allowing two video replay challenges per match. It's gotta happen eventually though we may never live to see it.

Back to making films.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Tom Sefton
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 19, 2014 at 6:02:12 pm

Utterly baffled. What Tim is quite eloquently saying is that in spite of all the reasons you are giving for futball not being popular in NA, it already is. No, the World Cup isn't like watching MLS, and on a week to week basis it's likely that hockey or basketball or NFL is more popular than MLS, but that's not the title of this thread is it? The World Cup is huge, and aside from the Olympics is the worlds biggest and most watched sporting event.

Also, this World Cup has already seen more goals, more wins and has adopted goal line technology compared with the last one. Futball is adapting, is getting faster and more goals are being scored. Aside from slowing the play down whilst 60,000 people and 2 referees watch a replay 2 times to decide the minute decisions of a game, what else should be done? Rugby has tv replays for big decisions and many pros and fans are getting very tired of them....

Anyway - back to watching. Another great game between Colombia and Ivory Coast just now, a stunning goal from Tim Cahill last night and England are waiting to slip up at the last minute against Uruguay!


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David Cherniack
Re: Soccer. ..F*** No. Why not many in N.A. give much of a sh**
on Jun 19, 2014 at 7:16:25 pm

[Tom Sefton] " What Tim is quite eloquently saying is that in spite of all the reasons you are giving for futball not being popular in NA, it already is"

It's a huge leap from broadcaster released and probably massaged ratings to that statement. Sorry. Don't see it. Don't feel it. Don't notice it. It's a Big Event Effect as I see it. Compare ratings for MLS and Premiership and La Liga matches shown in Canada to elsewhere or to league games in Hockey. I'm afraid that tells a more realistic tale of the existing support for pro soccer..

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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