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FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE

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David Lawrence
FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 6:09:43 pm
Last Edited By David Lawrence on Jun 12, 2014 at 6:14:06 pm

I was very excited when I saw that event translation was unofficially added to Xto7 a few months ago. While's it's no secret how I feel about the FCPX timeline, the idea of having keyword collections as bins makes possible a workflow I’ve been thinking about and wanting for many years.

I did some tests with Oliver's help and ran into a bug with subclips; but this morning, Gregory Clark from Intelligent Assistance posted the fix.

It works beautifully.

I can now go from this:



to this:



I’m about to start a project with researchers doing field studies and collecting video that will be used as ethnographic data to support design development. FCPX’s keywording and rating system are the perfect tool to log, select and organize the video material in the field. I can then move it to Premiere and cut however I like.

This is HUGE. Overnight, FCPX has gone from being a curiosity to one of the most important tools in my kit.

Thank you Greg for getting this to work so quickly.

Everyone, if you use FCPX and don't already have Xto7, RUN, don't walk and buy it now!

https://s29039.gridserver.com/IntelligentAssistanceStore/ProjectXto7

This is a game changer. I'm super excited!

Now, if they could just fix a couple things in that timeline... ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
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David Mathis
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 6:34:17 pm

Thank you for posting this. I am really beginning to love X very much. I only wish FCP X would get the respect it deserves. I am thinking of using Resolve as an alternative to Compressor but use FCP X for some finishing tasks.


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 6:39:28 pm

[David Mathis] " I only wish FCP X would get the respect it deserves."

Where are you seeing that FCP X is not getting the respect it deserves? I have seen a big shift in "conventional wisdom" in the last year or so, and although I know editors who still prefer FCP7, MC or Pr, I can't think of any editors I know who would outright dismiss FCP X anymore.

But as Shawn pointed out in another thread, maybe this depends on your circle.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Andy Neil
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 7:44:57 pm

[Walter Soyka] "although I know editors who still prefer FCP7, MC or Pr, I can't think of any editors I know who would outright dismiss FCP X anymore."

I still come across a lot of that negativity in LA. Not from people who frequent forums so much because they stay atop of the changes. But the backlash that occurred when X was introduced spread much further than the internet forum community. Whenever I bring up X in conversation the typical response is surprise followed by, "It's not any good is it?" or "I heard it can't do audio," or some equally dated critique.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:11:29 pm

I have seen that shift exactly nowhere. Where have you seen it?

Tim


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:03:05 am

[Walter Soyka] "I have seen a big shift in "conventional wisdom" in the last year or so... I can't think of any editors I know who would outright dismiss FCP X anymore."

[TImothy Auld] "I have seen that shift exactly nowhere. Where have you seen it?"

New York in-house agency and corporate editorial.

Again, I'm not saying everyone I've been working with is switching to FCP X, just that there seems to be a lot less uninformed and baseless criticism.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 6:41:52 pm

Great workflow, David. Thanks for posting!

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 6:45:19 pm

Just curious, but why not use Prelude?


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 6:58:22 pm

Prelude doesn't offer nearly this level of organization/logging. It's geared towards selects and a rough cut sequence.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 7:22:12 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Prelude doesn't offer nearly this level of organization/logging. It's geared towards selects and a rough cut sequence."

It offers sub clip marking as well as metadata entry and edit.

I know the strengths of X, and I know why I use it, I am just wondering why David wouldn't use Prelude. If something changes, or you need to do further organization, there isn't a direct connection between X and Pr as there is between Pl and Pr.

I am just curious is all.

Jeremy


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 7:45:58 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "It offers sub clip marking as well as metadata entry and edit.

I know the strengths of X, and I know why I use it, I am just wondering why David wouldn't use Prelude."


Fair question. I guess I've just never much cared for Prelude's overall workflow. I get how it's useful but it just doesn't feel as fast, fluid and comprehensive as FCPX's organizing tools, which are in a class off their own.

I'm also much more interested in keyword ranges as bins rather than as markers. I don't know if this is possible in Prelude as I didn't bother installing it when I upgraded to CS6.

I did investigate the Prelude Live Logger iPad app:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/adobe-prelude-live-logger/id705688267?mt=8

This would be super useful for capturing notes live during interviews. But without jam sync, we can't use it.

FCPX will be great for what I'm planning. I'm totally psyched!

_______________________
David Lawrence
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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 9:38:49 pm

[David Lawrence] "FCPX will be great for what I'm planning. I'm totally psyched!"

Just wait till you figure out the timeline! It's like the Browser, but stitched in time.

Heh heh. I kid you.

Sort of.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 9:39:28 pm

Thanks for the answer, by the way.


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David Mathis
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 7:03:09 pm

Personal preference I guess. Resolve does so many things well and the new version likes even better. I rather avoid renting when possible. Mainly for budget reasons.


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James Sullivan
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 7:33:25 pm

When you send the event over to premiere can you have it point at FCPX transcoded material?

I like that with one click I have prores of everything. I just hate cutting in X.

James



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Shane Ross
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 8:06:28 pm

Very bold statement...

"FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE"

How does this work for Avid? Sony Vegas? Edius? So far all you've shown is how to use this for FCX and Premiere Pro. That's not "any" NLE. How would you translate full project organization and media to Avid Media Composer? Edius? Lightwave?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Tim Wilson
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 8:50:32 pm

[Shane Ross] "How would you translate full project organization and media to Avid Media Composer? Edius? Lightwave?"

Resolve?

:-)


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David Mathis
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 9:00:36 pm

Yes! :-)


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Andrew Kimery
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 9:18:02 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Resolve?
"


That bullet proof FCP X to Xto7 to Resolve to Avid workflow. What could possibly go wrong? ;)

What that being said, not too long ago I had a corrupt FCP 7 project I was trying to get into Resolve for grading and the only way I could get the original RED footage to reconnect was to go FCP 7->PPro->REDCINE->Resolve.


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Mitch Ives
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:00:18 am

[Tim Wilson] "[Shane Ross] "How would you translate full project organization and media to Avid Media Composer? Edius? Lightwave?"

Resolve?

:-)"


Oh now you've done it! I'm with you BTW...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:49:31 pm

[Shane Ross] "How does this work for Avid? Sony Vegas? Edius? So far all you've shown is how to use this for FCX and Premiere Pro. That's not "any" NLE. How would you translate full project organization and media to Avid Media Composer? Edius? Lightwave?"

Fair questions, Shane.

Xto7 gives me this in FCP7:



I was then able to export XML from this FCP7 project and successfully import it into Premiere.

I presume that any NLE that can import bins, clips, subclips and Log Note metadata from standard FCP7 XML will work. I don't have all the NLEs you mentioned but can test with Avid sometime later today.

Maybe *any* is too strong a word. It should work with any NLE that properly reads FCP7 XML. That in itself is still a big deal. I'd love it if folks with other systems could give this workflow a try and report back.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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Shane Ross
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:45:14 am

[David Lawrence] "I presume that any NLE that can import bins, clips, subclips and Log Note metadata from standard FCP7 XML will work."

You presume that all NLE's have XML support. Avid does not.

[David Lawrence] "Maybe *any* is too strong a word. It should work with any NLE that properly reads FCP7 XML."

And that would be darn few:

Premiere Pro
Resolve (but it isn't an NLE...yet)

Buck stops there.

So now you are saying in order to utilize the great "Universal logging and organization tool" known as FCX, you need to buy:

FCX - $299
Xto7 - $50
Find a copy of FCP 7...unless you already own it. But...$1000

And then either use FCP 7 to edit (3 years old, EOL)...or Premiere Pro CC (shiny, new...current)

So FCX/Xto7 is a great $350 logging and organizing tool for Premiere Pro or FCP 7.

Getting this to Avid by adding Resolve Lite to the mix, doing a lot of transcoding in there...but then that'll get you media, not the bin structure.

Nope...great $350 solution for working with Premiere Pro or FCP 7.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:09:22 am

Thinking out loud -- another possible Avid workflow:

FCP7 can probably be skipped if you made stringout sequences from your smart collections.

Then, the Xto7 output XMEMLs could be converted to ALE via XMiL Sequencer or maybe Sebsky Tools.

I'm not sure how much metadata would carry over that way, but you might at least be able to get the right footage into a set of organized bins.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:18:26 am

[Shane Ross] "You presume that all NLE's have XML support."

An elements that hasn't been mentioned is the reason for FCP 7. The Xto7 conversion to an XML does not cleanly transfer the info into Premiere Pro directly. This is fixed by "washing" the XML through FCP 7. That happens in a lot of instances. XML compatibility in general is still very much a moving target.

[Shane Ross] "And that would be darn few:"

Add Smoke to that list. Possibly also Vegas and Lightworks, though, I haven't actually checked the latter.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23:27 am

[Oliver Peters] "An elements that hasn't been mentioned is the reason for FCP 7. The Xto7 conversion to an XML does not cleanly transfer the info into Premiere Pro directly. This is fixed by "washing" the XML through FCP 7. That happens in a lot of instances. XML compatibility in general is still very much a moving target."

Is that also true of the latest versions? I don't have personal experience, but the Xto7 web page actually lists Premiere Pro support before FCP7:

http://assistedediting.intelligentassistance.com/Xto7/

What doesn't work right?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:48:48 am

[Walter Soyka] "Is that also true of the latest versions?"

I haven't tested the version released today, but basically the answer is yes. It varies with what info you want to come across correctly. Sometimes an FCP 7 XML out of Xto7 will be perfect going into Premiere directly. Other times, you need to run it through FCP 7 first.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:21:19 am
Last Edited By David Lawrence on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:21:56 am

[Shane Ross] "You presume that all NLE's have XML support. Avid does not."

[Shane Ross] "And that would be darn few:

Premiere Pro
Resolve (but it isn't an NLE...yet)"


Thank you Shane.

That's actually an important point I'd like everyone to remember when we talk about subscription-only software.

Over in the Adobe CC Or Not forum, a lot of people seem to think that Adobe's "pay rent forever or we cut off access to your projects" business model isn't a problem, because you can always export an XML and move to another NLE.

I think you took that argument off the table.

I'm still excited about this workflow, though. ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:01:28 pm

Really? Overnight? RUFKM?

Tim


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 11:51:38 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Really? Overnight?"

Yep. Done all the time.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:11:41 am

And here I was referring to a magical workflow that now enables "FCPX" to be "a Universal Logging and Organizing Tool." I'm sure that every rational person believes this.

Tim


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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:15:00 pm

I think this is a great workflow option for CC customers. CS6 are still not able to slip edit, roll edit, etc subclips. A warning reads, "When subclips are used in a sequence, shifting the subclip Start/End is restricted to prevent frames from being eliminated in the sequence." I guess you could stack them in an infinite game of track tetris...

It's a bummer. Same thing with subclipping via Prelude CS6. And I have sent a few requests on line, and mentioned it to Dennis and Kevin, here or there on Cow. We are expecting an update soon.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/3/951291


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:42:23 pm

Why not just start in Premiere, Avid, FCP7, or whatever else? Why in the hell would anyone start any project in FCPX?

Tim


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:44:57 pm

And just for emphasis I will ask one more time: Why would anyone in their right mind start a complex project in FCPX?

Tim


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Shane Ross
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:46:29 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Why would anyone in their right mind start a complex project in FCPX?
"


Because metadata is magic, and solves all issues.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 10:56:25 pm

I have all the useless (and, yes occasionally useful) metadata I need in Premiere CC. If only they had any kind of comprehensive documentation. Sadly Adobe's documentation is useless crap. Just like the FCPX documentation.

Tim


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:05:48 am

[TImothy Auld] "And just for emphasis I will ask one more time: Why would anyone in their right mind start a complex project in FCPX?"

Dear FCP X Internet,

Yesterday, I suggested that you had persecutory delusions.

Today, I apologize. It was I who was delusional.

Best,
Walter

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:22:17 am

Just curious, Walter. Are you saying I am delusional?

Tim


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 1:52:35 am

[TImothy Auld] "Just curious, Walter. Are you saying I am delusional?"

No, Tim, I'm not saying that at all.

In another thread [link], and again up above, I thought that the debate over whether FCP X could be used for a "complex project" was more or less over, and that FCP X criticism had largely moved on to specific workflow needs and personal preference. I thought that the FCP X community was continuing to litigate a settled issue, trying to prove that FCP X can be used in the real world when proof is no longer required.

Your question, which you repeated for emphasis, shows that I was mistaken. There are obviously still professionals who question FCP X, so I understand better now why FCP X supporters still feel the need to justify or defend their own choices and professionalism.

Really, Tim, nothing directed at you. I think you're entitled to your opinion.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:01:57 am
Last Edited By TImothy Auld on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:07:20 am

If that debate were over then at $299 I would be using it - and believe me I have tried really hard to do so. As have many other producers and editors I know.

Tim


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Walter Soyka
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:25:56 am

[TImothy Auld] "If that debate were over then at $299 I would be using it - and believe me I have tried really hard to do so. As have many other producers and editors I know."

There's a difference between "doesn't work for my needs" or "not my personal preference" and "who in their right mind would use this?"

I'm not saying I thought the debate was over, just that I didn't realize we were still questioning each others' sanity anymore. I thought was reserved for discussions of subscription software!

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:12:34 am
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:20:48 am

[Walter Soyka] "I'm not saying I thought the debate was over, just that I didn't realize we were still questioning each others' sanity anymore. I thought was reserved for discussions of subscription software!"

I too am honestly astounded at the level of, I dunno, vitriol, irrational anger… whatever... that still comes up regarding FCP X. If you don't like it, don't f-ing use it. But to come here day after day and bleat about how it's just so awful, I don't see how anyone can use it, audio editing is awful blah di blah di blah. The rational POV's in this thread, which was kind of a good one, have once again been drowned out by the whining. There are a zillion NLE's… use another one. Is it really that hard?

I use it. I cut things with piles of audio, dialog cheats, crazy music edits, sound design, multi-layer composites with generators, effects. No problem at all. Could I do it in other NLE's? Yep. I have every one of those that keep getting bandied about here, and I know how to, and sometimes do use them all. Well, except Lightworks… probably not gonna go too deep on that one. That's a preference though, you won't hear me whining about how it sucks and question the sanity of anyone who does use it.

Sorry for the rant, but it's really ridiculous, and I had a long day... some of which I had to waste helping other editors troubleshoot FCP 7 and Pr. If you don't like X, fine. But to say the software can't do "real" work is complete and utter horsecrap. Move on. Please.

And David… it is a pretty cool use of fcpxml huh? I'd bet there's more to come. And you really ought try to cut in X again since you'll be spending some time in it now. :-) It's pretty damn awesome.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andy Neil
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:37:20 am

[Charlie Austin] "If you don't like X, fine. But to say the software can't do "real" work is complete and utter horsecrap. Move on. Please."

Thank you. I would have responded something similar, but I was too busy doing a complex project in FCPX to take the time.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:42:03 am

[Andy Neil] "I would have responded something similar, but I was too busy doing a complex project in FCPX to take the time."

lol. As I said, long day, complex project, easy and fun. Exhausting, but easy and fun. I read and/or see pix of some of the stuff people seem to be unable to do in X, and the first thought I have is a 3 word phrase. The first two are "What" and "The". Sometimes followed by "are you talking about?!?!" ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 21, 2014 at 12:02:57 am

[TImothy Auld] "And if you go so far as to tell us about your f*#king Emmy, then, pray, tell us what you got your f*#king Emmy for."

Tim, I started this thread to share a new FCPX workflow I'm very excited about. I apologize if in my enthusiasm, my use of the word "universal" offended you. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say "universal for any NLE that reads XML." Apologies.

None the less, I'm using this workflow with researchers in the field right now and it's working brilliantly.

Let's keep this thread civil and on topic please.

_______________________
David Lawrence
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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 21, 2014 at 12:08:45 am

Sorry, but did you even look at the invective directed toward me before singling me out as the sole problem?

Tim


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 21, 2014 at 12:15:38 am

[TImothy Auld] "And that's great David. But I suggest you go a few posts back before you accuse me of being uncivil."

Tim, I only saw your recent post, but if it helps, I'm directing my statement to everyone -

Hey everyone - let's keep it civil, on topic, and talk about the cool stuff. It's much more fun. Thanks.

_______________________
David Lawrence
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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 20, 2014 at 10:44:50 pm

I don't have to "move on." I can continue using (and sometimes hating) FCPX and I can continue posting in this forum. I will not be cowed by those who say say I should just get it or not. That is protectionist bullshit.

Tim


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:16:43 am

[Charlie Austin] "And David… it is a pretty cool use of fcpxml huh? I'd bet there's more to come. And you really ought try to cut in X again since you'll be spending some time in it now. :-) It's pretty damn awesome."

Way cool, Charlie. I look forward to seeing how it evolves. :)

I'll probably do some tinkering and quick assemblies but for me, that timeline still needs work.

I don't even care about tracks. I'd settle for being able to select, copy, and overwrite paste both audio and video directly in the primary. I do this all the time when cutting dialogue and interviews. It's one of the simplest possible things an NLE can do, right? I mean really... there's no excuse for any workarounds. As soon as paste with audio overwrite becomes possible, I'll be much more interested in cutting in X.

Until then, it's still cool to be able to use it, especially on this particular project!

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Andy Neil
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:55:33 am

[David Lawrence] "It's one of the simplest possible things an NLE can do, right? I mean really... there's no excuse for any workarounds."

This is one of those statements that's so extremely loaded. There are any number of things that anyone can point to and say, "certainly any NLE should be able to do that!" with the implication being that if it can't, it doesn't measure up. Just today, I was annoyed that I had to render a ramping speed effect in Avid to see if it matched the music I was cutting to. Surely any NLE worth it's salt could do this without rendering?

BTW, how is SHIFT+F and D more of a workaround than CMD+C / CMD+V? I can matchframe/overwrite just as fast as I can copy/paste.

Andy

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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:36:45 am

[Andy Neil] "BTW, how is SHIFT+F and D more of a workaround than CMD+C / CMD+V? I can matchframe/overwrite just as fast as I can copy/paste."

Glad it works for you Andy, I'm just not interested. I guess 30-years of muscle memory is just too much to break ;)

I'm not talking about anything fancy. I'm talking about copying and pasting from the simplest video clip with one channel of mono audio directly on the timeline without bouncing back and forth to the browser.

Overwrite paste is something even the simplest text editor does with ease. There's simply no reason why this can't be an option in FCPX as well. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :)

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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:37:12 am

[Andy Neil] "This is one of those statements that's so extremely loaded. There are any number of things that anyone can point to and say, "certainly any NLE should be able to do that!" with the implication being that if it can't, it doesn't measure up. Just today, I was annoyed that I had to render a ramping speed effect in Avid to see if it matched the music I was cutting to. Surely any NLE worth it's salt could do this without rendering?

BTW, how is SHIFT+F and D more of a workaround than CMD+C / CMD+V? I can matchframe/overwrite just as fast as I can copy/paste"


Very true, in fact I find replacing clips to be way faster in X than, say 7 or Pr. (despite the missing match frame replace, which needs to return) And I agree that the "framing" of the critique is a little hyperbolic. But to be fair, you can Paste Insert into the Primary, so Paste Overwrite would be a good addition. Also the ability to paste *at all* into a secondary. This is a reasonable request, unlike the previous love-fest about being able to paste into audio components, which is totally ridiculous IMO.

Honestly, I never really need to paste like this this... I can option drag clips to paste them within storylines if needed. Or find/replace as you note. And if I need to do a copy, paste, paste, paste I'll just do it as connected, then select everything and bump 'em down or make a secondary if I want them all in a straight line or something... But I guess more basic paste options would be nice. I'll send feedback. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

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~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andy Neil
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:46:17 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Also the ability to paste *at all* into a secondary."

You can copy/paste into the secondary if the clip you copy is from the secondary. But yes, it's not possible from the browser and I don't think it ever will. Since there are no "track selectors" in X, the only way to accomplish a paste into connected from the browser would be to have yet another dedicated shortcut which goes against the "ease of use" idea that Apple tries to maintain with their software.

David's desire for a paste overwrite is more likely because it can be accomplished without an extra shortcut. Simply work the code so that copy/paste inserts if you have the selection tool active, and overwrites if you have the position tool active.

But I still maintain that copy/pasting from the browser to the timeline is trying to make an NLE, any NLE, act like a text editor. The only time I found copy/paste to be that effective as a tool in editing was using it to copy/paste clips from clips already in the sequence or from one sequence to another. Not for basic editing tasks.

Andy

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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:54:58 pm

[Andy Neil] "But I still maintain that copy/pasting from the browser to the timeline is trying to make an NLE, any NLE, act like a text editor. The only time I found copy/paste to be that effective as a tool in editing was using it to copy/paste clips from clips already in the sequence or from one sequence to another. Not for basic editing tasks."

If David was talking about copy/pasting from the browserI totally agree. Theres no reason I can think of to do that. But I do think the ability to paste overwrite into a primary an secondary could be useful, as well as being able to paste from outside a secondary into it if you select it. Again, I actually didn't realize you couldn't because I never do, but I don't think adding another (modifier)-V command would hurt...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 14, 2014 at 2:07:36 am

[Andy Neil] "David's desire for a paste overwrite is more likely because it can be accomplished without an extra shortcut. Simply work the code so that copy/paste inserts if you have the selection tool active, and overwrites if you have the position tool active."

[Charlie Austin] "If David was talking about copy/pasting from the browserI totally agree. Theres no reason I can think of to do that. But I do think the ability to paste overwrite into a primary an secondary could be useful, as well as being able to paste from outside a secondary into it if you select it. Again, I actually didn't realize you couldn't because I never do, but I don't think adding another (modifier)-V command would hurt..."

Exactly! That's all I'm talking about - having another modifier key that overwrite pastes instead of the default insert paste.

And just to be clear, I'm not talking about using the browser. Just the opposite. I want to be able to select a range, cut or copy, and overwrite paste directly from the primary into the primary. I don't want to go back to the browser at all.

[Andy Neil] "The only time I found copy/paste to be that effective as a tool in editing was using it to copy/paste clips from clips already in the sequence or from one sequence to another."

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I use this technique all the time when cutting dialogue and interviews.

BTW, Shift-F only works if the entire clip is selected. What do you do if you want to select a range inside the primarily and cut/copy or paste from that?

I can option-V paste as connected, then option-command-down to overwrite to primary, but that only overwrites video not audio. Now I have to trim back the incoming clip's audio that just dropped below what should have been an overwrite. Fail.

I don't see any easy way to do what should be a trivially simple edit this way, using just the primary.

Am I missing something?

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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 15, 2014 at 12:57:32 am

I think this would work.

Forgive me if this has been covered.

Select range or clip in the timeline.

copy then paste as a connected clip or any where it is convenient.

position tool drag the copied clip where you want to overwrite.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 15, 2014 at 1:58:47 am

[Craig Alan] "I think this would work.

Forgive me if this has been covered.

Select range or clip in the timeline.

copy then paste as a connected clip or any where it is convenient.

position tool drag the copied clip where you want to overwrite."


Thank you Craig. Yes this does work, but I want it to work completely from the keyboard without having to use a mouse. AFAIK, this can't be done. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 15, 2014 at 4:21:11 am

I much prefer keyboard short cuts when I can remember them, which tend to be things I do a lot, get annoyed and learn the sucker. One general trend on the FCP X software design that I find un-mac like is how elements of the program work differently than others. But they do seem to be improving on this at each update. For example, the secondary storyline has become more like the primary over time.

A clip modified or a range selected on the timeline should be able to be copied to the browser (event), not need to be turned into compound clip, which takes on a whole new set of rules.

I do think a simple keyboard command for an overwrite paste is a no brainer. command-v inserts, option v connects, so what is overwrite? All the mod keys with D seem to do other things.

That said you do have to use your mouse to place your playhead or skimmer where you will be putting the overwrite clip. which also gives you a target for the overwrite. set your IO or range> copy> move playhead to your target which also shows you in the viewer the frame where the overwrite begins> option-V >P>a quick flick down with mouse to overwrite.

I'm kinda surprised to hear that you would consider using FCP X's trackless design. Aside from one missing keyboard command what's your must have list?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 20, 2014 at 10:24:57 pm

Sorry to be so late to the ball but there are BASIC questions still to be answered here.

Tim


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 2:16:09 am

Walter,

I checked with my contacts in the secret cabal that is trying to control the editing universe via FCP X. Your temporary blasphemy is provisionally forgiven. Carry on.

(Required sign off since I'm in an airport at the moment.)

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 11:07:03 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Why not just start in Premiere, Avid, FCP7, or whatever else? Why in the hell would anyone start any project in FCPX?"

Tim,

I have zero interest in cutting a complex project in FCPX. I'm thinking about this purely for logging and organizing.

Skimming, range selecting, keywording, and annotating clips is a fantastic logging workflow in FCPX. Better than anything else I've tried. And it fits into my team's research and synthesis process extremely well.

With this new version of Xto7, all prep work and organization in FCPX moves seamlessly into a cutting environment I'm comfortable with. I get the best of both worlds.

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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 11:15:39 pm

What precisely do you get in FCPX that you would not get starting in any other NLE? I can do the equivalent of skimming, range selecting, and annotating in any other NLE workflow. And if I did it in Avid I would actually have markers that are useful. I don't see why I would choose FCPX as my organizational tool for any job.

Tim


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 11:41:10 pm

[TImothy Auld] "What precisely do you get in FCPX that you would not get starting in any other NLE? I can do the equivalent of skimming, range selecting, and annotating in any other NLE workflow. And if I did it in Avid I would actually have markers that are useful. I don't see why I would choose FCPX as my organizational tool for any job."

I get where you're coming from. Believe me, no one's more surprised by this than me. You should have see the look on some friend's faces when I told them I was making FCPX a key part of my workflow, lol. ;)

It's completely true that you can get the equivalent of skimming, range selecting, and annotating in any other NLE workflow.

But what you don't get is the speed, fluidity, and ease of FCPX.

Jeremy has written many posts on how keyword collections are essentially bins but with greater flexibility. He's right. I've always appreciated FCPXs organizing tools. My problem has always been with the timeline. Now, I can ignore the timeline and just use the part of FCPX I like.

This Xto7 workflow allows me to translate keyword collections directly into bins with annotated subclips. For me and my needs, annotated subclips presorted into keyword-named bins is way more useful then having markers.

That's just me, your needs may be different. But if you have FCPX, give this workflow a try. You too may be pleasantly surprised.

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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 11:45:24 pm

But are we only talking x to 7? What else?

Tim


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:00:55 am

[TImothy Auld] "But are we only talking x to 7? What else?"

This new version of Xto7 is the key.

Also, a big piece of this probably comes from how Apple changed the Library/Event structure in FCPX version 10.1.1 to more closely reflect how other NLEs work.

But yeah, all you need is FCPX 10.1.1, the latest version of Xto7 and FCP7.

Import some footage into FCPX, make some keyword collections with log notes, export your event as FCPXML, convert with Xto7, and import into FCP7.

From there you can either start editing if you still use Legacy or export a FCP7 XML and use that somewhere else. It seems like a lot of steps but in my opinion, it's easy and worth it.

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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 12, 2014 at 11:50:20 pm

I guess more specifically I'm asking how (and if) keyword collections fit into Premiere, Vegas, Edius, et al? Are we just talking translation to FCP&?

Tim


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:03:00 am

[TImothy Auld] "I guess more specifically I'm asking how (and if) keyword collections fit into Premiere, Vegas, Edius, et al? Are we just talking translation to FCP&?"

Xto7 turns keyword collections into named bins containing subclips. See my original post for pictures. It's rad!

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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:05:49 am

[David Lawrence] "bins containing subclips"

Are you in CC or CS6?

I'm having a terrible time using subclips in CS6 because they do not slip and roll. How do you solve that?

Thanks!


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:56:40 am

Among a million other unanswered questions posed by this new "universal logging and organizing tool."

Tim


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:00:38 am
Last Edited By David Lawrence on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:24:06 am

[Richard Herd] "I'm having a terrible time using subclips in CS6 because they do not slip and roll. How do you solve that?"

I tested on a machine with FCP7, CS6 and CC. I don't have an Avid so I'm waiting for my brother in LA to do a test later tonight. EDIT: Shane says Avid doesn't support XML so I guess that won't work.

In FCP7, command-option-F reveals the subclip frame in the parent clip.

In CS6, the workflow is you open the subclip in the source browser, mark in and out for the entire subclip, then edit the subclip's start and end times using the Edit Subclip... menu item.

You can then drop the subclip into the timeline and extend or slip and roll.

CC's checkbox for subclip boundaries is certainly more elegant, but you don't need to use CC to be able to extend subclip boundaries in Premiere. Give it a try and let me know if it works for you.

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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:17:43 pm

THANK YOU!!!







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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 14, 2014 at 1:29:46 am

[Richard Herd] "THANK YOU!!!"

You're welcome! :D

I did another CS6 test and it's actually even easier than I described above -

1) open the subclip in the source browser, mark in and out for the entire sub clip
2) selected the Edit Subclip... menu item
3) check the "convert to master clip" checkbox

Done! No need to re-edit the subclip's start and end times.

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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 16, 2014 at 3:53:31 pm

Thanks again. I tried that and it did not work. In a minute I will try again with the following change. I will put the clip in the timeline and then edit the subclip.


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 16, 2014 at 4:31:20 pm

[Richard Herd] "Thanks again. I tried that and it did not work. In a minute I will try again with the following change. I will put the clip in the timeline and then edit the subclip."

I don't think it'll work from the timeline. You need to make it a master clip with in and out set to the subclip range before you put it on the timeline.

Make sure that the sub clip is loaded in the source viewer then set in and out for the entire sub clip duration. Then select the subclip in the browser and select the Edit Subclip... menu.

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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 16, 2014 at 11:00:22 pm

Thanks!


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 12:24:57 am

I went back and read your original post and it does not come within yard of answering my last question. If it works for you, then dandy. To promote as some sort of UNIVERSAL logging and organizing tool is absolute nonsense.

Tim


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 3:50:54 am

What happens with overlapping keywords, is a duplicate clip made?

I guess I could test it myself, but what's the fun in that?


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David Lawrence
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 4:11:37 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "What happens with overlapping keywords, is a duplicate clip made?

I guess I could test it myself, but what's the fun in that?"


Just tested. Yep, you get a subclip for the marked range of every keyword, i.e. if I keyword a small range inside a larger keyword range, you get a separate keyword bin with the smaller range as a subclip. This is what I would expect and it works fine for my purposes.

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Darren Roark
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 5:13:43 am

It's like when bacon was called the gateway drug that stopped people from being vegetarians..


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David Powell
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 6:03:56 pm

Are you wrapping/transcoding media first and "leaving it in place?" How would you deal with FS700 footage for example that needs to optimize in FCP X. I suppose you can dig it out the library and move it to an external folder.


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Darren Roark
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 9:52:44 pm

The FS700 footage isn't actually optimized, it's rewrapped into a quicktime wrapper. So you are still using the native codec in the NLE you migrate to.

I have been doing something similar with FCP X on set for a while now. I would have to make bins manually before so this is a great development.

Some producers would get really upset when they 'caught' me using FCP X, but when I'd include a PP CS6 project file already prepped they came around.


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Paul Neumann
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 13, 2014 at 11:00:57 pm

Prelude makes excellent folders/keywords/subclips for use in FCPX.


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Benjamin Reichman
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 16, 2014 at 11:17:33 pm

I'm going to ignore the FCP X debate, and just say that this is a very cool trick--thanks! I use Premiere quite a bit, and I've been meaning to open Prelude and try it out, but this is a great alternative.

It's funny, but I suspect that FCP 7 XML will far outlive FCP 7 itself...


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Tim Wilson
ADMIN NOTE Please slow down just a hair.
on Jun 21, 2014 at 2:17:29 am

In trying to manage with a light hand, preferably NO hand, I apologize for letting this thread get out of control. It didn't get CRAZY out of control, and it seems to me like it could get back on the rails and stay there easily enough without me, just by posting a little more slowly.

Please note that I'm not calling anyone out in particular, but a number of posts went pretty clearly over the line for personally-directed speech. I tried to trim those while leaving the overall flow of the conversation intact. I sincerely apologize if you feel I cut too much or too little.

As always, please send me a note directly if you have any questions or concerns. Hijacking the thread with admin stuff and replies to it is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to do with keeping the discussion on topic -- but I cut a wide enough swath through here that I felt I owed you an explanation.

It's all gonna work out fine.




Best,

Tim

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TImothy Auld
Re: ADMIN NOTE Please slow down just a hair.
on Jun 21, 2014 at 2:25:59 am
Last Edited By TImothy Auld on Jun 21, 2014 at 2:29:30 am

Sorry for whatever part I played in this, Tim. I felt I was being personally attacked and I responded. Which in retrospect was stupid of me. I'm sorry to have made your job a pain. If it makes you feel at all better, it's not the first time I've been stupid. And probably not the last.

Tim


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Tim Wilson
Re: ADMIN NOTE Please slow down just a hair.
on Jun 21, 2014 at 5:16:15 pm

[TImothy Auld] " it's not the first time I've been stupid. And probably not the last."

Ha! Thanks! It happens to us all.

In fact, we added the ability for users to remove their own posts because we kept getting so many requests for it. We previously DIDN't allow it because we didn't want trolls hitting and running...but in fact, what's happened almost all the time is that people post something they wish they hadn't. I've used this feature myself for exactly that reason.

My apologies to the class again for going through the thread and deleting even MORE posts. I know that one of the functions of forums like Creative COW is for people to blow off steam, and we value that. Strong opinions are not only allowed, but REQUESTED. We love that.

But even for full-contact posting, there are rules.

Also apologies again for deleting any posts at the high-signal end of the spectrum. My judgement in those cases was either that there was enough noise in them to fall afoul of the rules, OR because they responded to a post that was no longer there.

I'm very happy to go back to my typical role of not touching posts. I haven't touched one here in the past year, maybe the past two years.

As always, please write me directly with any additional questions or concerns.

Thanks again,
Tim


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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE
on Jun 22, 2014 at 4:10:48 pm

http://dvcreators.net/what-does-the-guy-who-led-the-original-final-cut-pro-...

Scroll down to the section that begins: The Truth about the Origins of Final Cut Pro X.

Oh and you did not answer my question about

"As soon as paste with audio overwrite becomes possible, I'll be much more interested in cutting in X."

I asked: "I'm kinda surprised to hear that you would consider using FCP X's trackless design. Aside from one missing keyboard command what's your must have list?"

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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