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FCPX is the best NLE on the market

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Steve Connor
FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 6:49:17 pm

It's probably not, but I thought the subject heading might get a bit more traffic through the forum, it's been uncharacteristically quiet in here over the last few days!

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 6:55:19 pm

If by "market" you mean the App Store - I'll agree, FCPX is the best NLE available today on the App Store.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Steve Connor
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 7:03:53 pm

We could have categories?

"Best NLE with an unchanged interface from the 1990's"

"Best Rental only NLE"

etc, etc

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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David Mathis
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 7:21:38 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on May 27, 2014 at 7:25:10 pm

[Steve Connor] "We could have categories?

"Best NLE with an unchanged interface from the 1990's"

"Best Rental only NLE"

etc, etc

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly
"


High five!



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Lance Bachelder
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 7:53:56 pm

Best Mac only NLE: FCPX?

Best Windows only NLE: Sony Vegas?

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Richard Herd
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 7:17:49 pm

Project workflow is everything.

The current project I have is about 10 minutes of corporate/industrial of 6 different shooters delivered greenscreen talking head footage, of 14 people. Slightly different lighting and slightly different audio, but all professional.

I don't get to use it for this project because I'm waiting for capital approval, but the benefit X would provide is the way audio is contained in the video. Right now, in PP.cs6 each speaker's audio is on a different track, so I can mix them, but, because it's a jump-cutty style, each speaker's audio requires 2 tracks, so the J and L cuts are nifty. CTRL-S (split editing) in X is simply a very good idea.

I'm open to fixing my CS6 workstyle if someone has a better idea.


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James Culbertson
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 7:15:00 pm

"FCPX is the best NLE on the market or not: the debate"

Changing the forum name to that would probably re-invigorate things a bit here.


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David Mathis
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 7:26:39 pm

Things will liven up a bit when Resolve 11 is released or when 10.1.2 comes about. Been past the three month period, perhaps this week.

My Final Cut Studio:

Core Software
Final Cut Pro X
Motion 5
Resolve
Pixelmator

Plug-ins
Red Giant Universe

Utilities
7 to X
Clip Exporter
Ultrascope

Cameras
Black Magic Cinema Camera
Canon (consumer model)


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 8:43:51 pm

I'll give you this: It's without question the best NLE for the price. For what you pay it does astonishing things. Just not things I need for my workflow. Which is sad because I would love it if my NLE quiver cost only $299.

Tim


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Shane Ross
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 8:58:06 pm

The NLE I'm using, none of the PLUGINS are that cheap. Many are more expensive than the editing app itself! Stupid...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 10:09:31 pm

I know exactly what you mean, Shane. I was always astonished when companies would charge four and five times the price of the software for training. If I ever spend three to four time the software price on training then it's time to put me away. (Some would argue that time is now.)

Tim


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Devin Crane
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 10:14:42 pm

Not much different than cameras I guess, the camera itself may be $3-$5k but you can spend $20k+ on a single lenses not to mention tripods, booms and ect.



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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 11:23:59 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on May 27, 2014 at 11:55:33 pm

Maybe it is.

The code base, top to bottom, is newer.
The software takes advantage of the latest Apple hardware and OS improvements, brilliantly.
The metadata foundation and built-in range based database is perfect for taming the increasing chaos of more cameras, more footage and more job complexity.
The software leverages OS X implementations like Core Graphics and Core Audio, etc. To provide a better user experience without needing expensive add-on hardware.
The software scales brilliantly from MacBook Pros to MacPros.
The output engine benefits from Apples lead positions in phones and tablets along with their codec invention and licensing to allowing one-click publishing to hundreds of millions of personal and desktop devices, worldwide.

and it's simply more fun to use than other NLE programs. (Source: people I meet who have switched!)

(Shields gleefully up for the onslaught of what still sucks about it - you may all fire when ready... )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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TImothy Auld
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 27, 2014 at 11:41:55 pm

As stated recently, I know and accept what's good about it.

Tim


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 12:31:06 am

[Bill Davis] " you may all fire when ready"

I think, at least here, that battle is pretty much done. FCP X is a great NLE. You like it and it suits your workflow or you don't and it doesn't.

There's plenty of new territory though. I suggest the Facebook "Ask an Editor" page if you'd like to continue the game. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 12:32:12 am

FCP X is the best NLE on the market.


Except when it's not.


Same as most other tools.


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 12:39:15 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Except when it's not.


Same as most other tools."


Yep. Though as someone who, for a variety of reasons, bounces between the "big 3" nle's... I have more "F&%^ this nonsense, I'm gonna move the project to X" moments than I do the opposite. Meaningless personal anecdote. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 12:54:18 am
Last Edited By Andrew Kimery on May 28, 2014 at 1:04:42 am

[Charlie Austin] "Yep. Though as someone who, for a variety of reasons, bounces between the "big 3" nle's... I have more "F&%^ this nonsense, I'm gonna move the project to X" moments than I do the opposite. Meaningless personal anecdote. ;-)
"


One personal anecdote deservers another... knowing FCP X in LA won't currently land me any worthwhile gigs so aside from not being able to make a living using it I don't have any real beef with FCP X at this point in time. ;-)


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 1:07:55 am

[Andrew Kimery] "so aside from not being able to make a living using it I don't have any real beef with FCP X at this point in time. ;-)"

Fair enough. lol

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Mathis
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 3:58:42 am

Resolve could become the next great NLE, after all it does have tracks! :-)


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Scott Witthaus
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 11:55:39 am

[David Mathis] "after all it does have tracks!"

Thats great if you charge by the hour! Certainly a slower way to work....

;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Jason Jenkins
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 2:17:33 pm

[Bill Davis] "it's simply more fun to use than other NLE programs"

Absolutely agree with this!

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Herb Sevush
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 5:06:57 pm

[Bill Davis] "The code base, top to bottom, is newer."

I'm not sure what this means. The overall design paradigm is unique for sure, but I doubt that it's code is newer than let's say Lightworks for OSX, which is just getting written this year.

It also begs the question - is newer code base a criterion for better? Does this mean if some new company, like Resolve, comes out with a fully operational NLE next year it will automatically be better than the then comparatively arthritic 4 year old code of X? Or better still, using this criterion the X of 3 years ago should be better than today's version because 3 years ago the code was definitely "newer" in all ways.

Beware the curse of chasing after the new, because everything once new now grows old. (for all you Paul Simon fans.)

[Bill Davis] "The software takes advantage of the latest Apple hardware and OS improvements, brilliantly."

As compared to Avid, Adobe and Lightworks that work on both OSX and Windows and can take advantage of a much larger set of hardware and software options.

[Bill Davis] "and it's simply more fun to use than other NLE programs. (Source: people I meet who have switched!)"

Ah yes, the fun criteria. Well there it is, that clinches it. Well done.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Dan Stewart
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 28, 2014 at 6:29:36 pm

Best NLE without tracks for sure.



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Dennis Radeke
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 29, 2014 at 10:52:41 am

must...resist...temptation...

;-)


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Steve Connor
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 29, 2014 at 4:05:27 pm

Go on, you know you want to!

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 30, 2014 at 8:57:35 pm

I myself really want to give out about avid. so very, very badly.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 30, 2014 at 9:05:24 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I myself really want to give out about avid. so very, very badly."

Go ahead. It's not like you're in a glass house working for a company that competes with them or something. You won't even need to add a ;-) after your comment.



;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 30, 2014 at 10:10:01 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on May 30, 2014 at 10:28:14 pm

the hell with it -

I'm in a place for a bit that has vast quantities of avid. seas of it. and avid people. defensive, defensive avid people.

I couldn't really say much of anything before, but now I have been exposed to the horror.
So fine - there is interplay on isis. that is all super impressive, watch us drag edits out of the isis - that's all great. maybe we check them back in. Avid is doing all that stuff. Inside a gigantic mountain called avid go away.

the point is it's an entirely locked media scenario you can't easily get out of. we all likely want to get into and out of the edit all the time, take the footage items in edit process other places or to other people in process - say even if the other person is us. not in bloody interplay world we don't. It intellectually locks the edit away. It's an irritating belgium you need a passport for. And it's a place defended by a class of editors desperate to defend it. it feels dis-likable.

but lo the timeline. Oh that jkl trimming that no one ever seems to use. Where the hell is clip enable disable?
why is there that moronic track level disable that shines down vertically? how well does that work for stacking alternate shots?

why does it insist on operating on the cut points? why does it throw you into an over engineered trim tool for the most trivial actions? after stupid keyboard actions to get you into the fabled trim mode? Why cant I simply directly operate slip slide as a selectable tool on the clip as an object nevermind the trim points? Why doesn't it recognise the clip itself as an extant edit object? (caveat - i don't feel the smart tools perform this)
why is it a finicky complicated mess?

effects - oh effects the insanity. even avid editors get embarrassed here. sometimes they barely know what's going on. why doesn't the effect want to apply ? who knows. but there's a yellow dot there and avid is saying another effect can't be applied. perhaps it's the order of effects. maybe you need to step inside the effect. - cue canned laughter at the utter joke that is the avid effects insanity.

but wait - no no - there's more. if you want to modify the effect, you need to randomly select the effect keyframe icon below the monitor and turn it pink before you move to alter the effect in the effect parameter area. because science. the science of a company producing stupid workflows to protect stupid workflows to produce a car that looks and acts like a hedgehog, for people who desperately need the editing system to act like a hedgehog to newcomers. because guild science.

there is no end to the hilarious kafkauseque games a generation of insane editors have played to produce an editing system that literally points every sign the wrong way, producing a system that would make the word obtuse blush with shame.

avid is a designed assault course of moronic obfuscation. It feels like a british trade union that dreamed what it could really hope to be in the seventies.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 30, 2014 at 10:33:04 pm

Bravo. One of your finest rants :-)

Out of all your "bullet points', "stepping into" effects is my favorite. It reminds me of "stepping into" something else... Though at least MC can link to external media now. kind of. Anyway, it was groundbreaking at the end of the last century, but it hasn't changed much since then. That brings comfort to many folks actually. Come to think of it, most NLE's haven't changed all that much in the last 20-25 years...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 30, 2014 at 10:55:36 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on May 31, 2014 at 12:26:45 am

[Charlie Austin] "Though at least MC can link to external media now. kind of."

not on the ground it doesn't. there are no instances where ama is operated in scenarios where it would provide the benefits intended. it's a fig leaf that never operates in an interplay scenario,

avid is financially designed as a closed walled world, ragnarok comes- edit - and more giving out about avid. bachelder.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 31, 2014 at 1:10:54 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "not on the ground it doesn't. there are no instances where ama is operated in scenarios where it would provide the benefits intended."

I got it working, at least in MC 7. It's an enormous pain in the butt, but it does work... Sort of.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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James Culbertson
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 30, 2014 at 10:45:34 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "avid is a designed assault course of moronic obfuscation."

Where were you in the early 2000s when I was trying to explain to AVID editors why I was using FCP legacy instead?

Can you notify me whenever you post... oh wait, I use FCPX primarily now.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 31, 2014 at 12:21:20 am

I've always enjoyed dragging a range to the primary in X. the fact that the software can't even complete the action without presenting a six way menu always felt a sure sign of the best new cupertino thinking.

still tho - 7 does have it beat there. with 7, you do get to drop the clip to timeline without six forced query options.

http://i.imgur.com/cjkcfIa.png

the fact that they're having to propose these questions through software every time you commit such a basic action must be incredibly satisfying on their end. relative to the drag drop object simplicity they had, this insane convoluted Esperanto must feel like quite the achievement.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 31, 2014 at 1:23:52 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "still tho - 7 does have it beat there. with 7, you do get to drop the clip to timeline without six forced query options. "

It's more or less the same, you just get the choices in a different place.




A simple replace operation is way faster in X IMO. select a range or in point in source, select the target clip, press a key combo. Why drag anything? The missing match frame replace is annoying though....

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 31, 2014 at 2:05:11 am

no charlie, we both know you're telling a weirdly desperate fib there.

you know exactly what you could drag directly the timeline, and you chose, god love you, to present the weird canvas version you know no one used.

you know exactly the problems with the timeline. It can't allow any more drag drop entry.

- because it simply has way too much asshat preset grammar to allow that basic function. FCPX couldn't actually allow a drop drop to the timeline even if it wanted to.

to be fair you get that right? How degraded its basic efficiency is in that key respect versus 7?

because it's a very stupid timeline.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 31, 2014 at 2:56:41 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "It can't allow any more drag drop entry."

Wrong. Use the position tool and you can drop stuff wherever you want. Select tool presents you with the replace choices.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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James Culbertson
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on May 31, 2014 at 5:25:53 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "- because it simply has way too much asshat preset grammar to allow that basic function. FCPX couldn't actually allow a drop drop to the timeline even if it wanted to."

Aindreas, you do know that what you are talking about only applies to the specific task of doing a replace edit (using the selection tool)? If you drag to the timeline using the selection tool (over an edit point) you can do an insert without any of the replace edit verbiage. You can also drag a clip into a connected clip position. Position tool allow you to do an overwrite.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant if you use key commands to do the replace command... you know, like most professional editors would.

So as usual you are incorrect, I'm assuming due to lack of experience.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on Jun 1, 2014 at 7:14:33 pm

[James Culbertson] "only applies to the specific task of doing a replace edit (using the selection tool)?"

you say it as if that is a tangential use case. I referenced it to make the point that in respect of that basic operation, the X timeline has so much grammatical garbage and preset rules around the operation that it is forced to ask a six part question before it can move on. sure you can sidestep it, but it still highlights a pretty glaring problem - at least it does in my opinion. It's an over engineered timeline.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on Jun 1, 2014 at 8:09:56 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "the X timeline has so much grammatical garbage and preset rules around the operation that it is forced to ask a six part question before it can move on"

Only if you are dragging a clip onto another clip specifically to replace it. Otherwise it's a single keystroke. As you appear to be a mouse centric editor, remind me again the steps needed to backtime replace a clip in FCP 7 or Pr.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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James Culbertson
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on Jun 1, 2014 at 8:55:35 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "you say it as if that is a tangential use case.... It's an over engineered timeline."

Well, it is a pretty specific problem. I'm curious how you would do it differently considering all the options available for doing a replace edit in FCPX? Diminish the number of replace edit options? Perhaps allow key commands to do specific replace edit functions (which they did)? What else? How does Premiere or Media Composer do a drag and drop replace edit? And where else in FCPX do you see "grammatical garbage" and forced multi-step questions?

Personally, I've always felt that Media Composer was an over-engineered timeline. Certainly, Premiere is no less "engineered" from my perspective. So I guess it all depends upon how you like to work.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCPX is the best NLE on the market
on Jun 2, 2014 at 12:30:01 am

there is a who cares aspect to this - apple instantly went from a 40% market key edit system to a curio.

it's done no? I'm not wildly connected but i don't know another soul who even paid for x. apple deliberately killed the entire FCP scenario.
X is as relevant as vegas or edius. its more insane than both of them. it kind of doesn't mean anything. they've got a pages. It's done.

apple internally walked off six years ago. it is nominally supported software inside a different company. FCP is never ever coming back as was.
apple simply aren't doing this stuff anymore. this will never be what FCP was. Apple are out.

pride keeps their finger in but they alone decided to wreck it ralph by temporarily experimenting with an amazon magnifying glass on price for fun.

and then after they got 50% market share they got bored and dumped everyone away, making an insane piece of software they felt like with that stupid event project hierarchy that made no sense to anyone.

apple took an unannounced toilet on a lot of people there.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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