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Creative Cow in need of a new forum

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Dustin Parsons
Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 11, 2014 at 7:37:05 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but this forum (FCPX Debate) still seems to be the place people congregate to talk about ALL changes happening in the world of post-production whether it pertains to FCPX or not. A quick glance at what people are discussing here ranges from Resolve 11, Avid, the Arri 4K camera, Black Magic cameras, Adobe CC and more intermingled with the occasional technical FCPX question more suited for the FCPX Techniques forum.

There's an obvious demand for a forum to chat about the constantly changing post-production atmosphere from the camera's that we are delivered footage from to NLE's and finishing programs and this particular forum has morphed into that place - just look at the Adobe CC or Not forum, it's pretty on topic. I have no problem with the FCPX or Not forum staying up but, as I mentioned before, the majority of the topics discussed here now are not through the lens of switching to FCPX or not and unless you've been around here for the past 2 years watching how it has changed there's no way you'd know to click on this forum to read and engage in some of the most interesting discussions happening about our work.

The FCPX Debate forum should remain because a lot of people are still trying to make that decision but there is no reason a new forum should not be created to cater to the discussions we are currently having that, in all other forums, would be deemed off topic.

Again, if what I'm asking for already exists please point me to it. If not, I think it's about time we have a place that new comers as well as the regulars know to go for discussions and debate for the rapid changes happening throughout our industry.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:05:16 pm

The Art of the Edit forum used to be the 'catch all' forum but that FCPX or Not obviously has morphed into that role. I'm not sure what can be done about it other than mods moving non-FCPX centric discussions to Art of the Edit (in hopes that it breeds a new habit of people going there) but that seems like more hassle than it's worth.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:16:02 pm

Previously:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/64372

[Walter Soyka] "I wonder if dual-naming would be viable: two forum links here that share content."


Franz.


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Dustin Parsons
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:37:59 pm

I don't think the Art of the Edit forum is necessarily the best place for the majority of these topics. Art of the Edit looks more like a place for discussing aesthetics, history and general techniques of editing without regard to what's NEW to post-production. What makes this forum unique is it's focus on new technology, changes to existing workflows and most importantly the future of editing. I feel like the FCPX Debate forum is all about staying relevant to what's happening now - updates, new releases, speculation on changes to come, etc...

It might be a hassle for a month or two to move all off topic posts to a new forum until people get used to going there but in the long run it would be the best thing to keep this place alive.

[Andrew Kimery] "but that seems like more hassle than it's worth."

A small price to pay in my opinion, hell, I'll even help out if they're low on manpower.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 11, 2014 at 10:03:44 pm

FWIW:

I get a tremendous amount of satisfaction from the expanded and sometimes OT discussions on this forum. And like reading your favorite tech writer or movie critic ... I know the personalities here well enough to understand their context.

I think the history of this forum makes it MORE useful to anyone considering X for the first time.

-- The majority of posters are people who have tried and/or adopted FCPX, and many use more than one NLE.

So the discussions have evolved with X. "Are you sticking with it?" "I'm using it more than ever." "I have finally decided to abandon X." "I now use X for such-and-so, and PPro for this-and-that." And so on.

Rather than the initial head-scratching debate, these are ongoing, informed and evolving discussions. The blunt "Or Not" aspect of the debate is less interesting. FCPX is well known now. So if you ARE considering it's use, you'll find more, better and more UP TO DATE info.

-- I personally use X and Legacy, and dabble with PPro. I haven't used Avid professionally in a decade, but I'll probably get an edu-priced Avid MC soon, to learn and teach my high school students who are interested.

My point: This forum is great BECAUSE of the knowledgeable editors who use or have tried X and ALSO use the alternatives. I learn a ton from their posts. A good example is Oliver Peters, who write a tremendous blog with real-world, practical advice on which NLE is currently strong in what area, which is weak. And he generously caps many an ongoing discussion on this forum by sharing his latest, up-to-the-minute experiences.

While that might be considered "catch-all" post talk, we are lucky to have our FCPX knowledge base expanded by anecdotal comparisons to other workflows.

So my vote is: Change the name slightly, if people really feel the need. But don't "atomize" this wildly entertaining, informative and rich forum into a lot of sparsely populated niche forums.

Doug D


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Dustin Parsons
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 11, 2014 at 10:33:17 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "So my vote is: Change the name slightly, if people really feel the need. But don't "atomize" this wildly entertaining, informative and rich forum into a lot of sparsely populated niche forums."

I completely agree. The last thing I'd want is to do is get rid of the rich discussion here that comes from the diversity of interest of those who visit – that's precisely what I love about this place. Perhaps my view is skewed because I'm a PPro user and still find this forum of much more interest based on the type of post that seem okay here but would be out of place in the Adobe CC Debate forum. For instance, I wanted to see what people were talking about with all the new NAB releases and where did I go? the Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate forum. Not because I was particularly interested in FCPX's new features or how new camera's would work with FCPX but because I've been coming here for quite a while and know what this forum has become - unlike any new user visiting the Cow who would likely expect this forum to be on topic like all others.

Maybe a better solution than making another forum would be to merge the XXX or Not: The Debate forums into one forum. We keep the debates going, we keep the post about cameras and DIT tech and codecs going, we keep talking about everything... just not under the guise of it having to pertain to one particular NLE.

This forum is great because of the different backgrounds and interest of those who visit, it'd be sad to see it succumb to a bubble of those who've regularly been visiting since the launch of FCPX while new members fumble around to find where to post their OT musings, inquiries, and tech discussions.

...or maybe I just ignore it hope new users find their way here without much trouble.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 11, 2014 at 11:35:31 pm

To the incredibly often requested notion of renaming this forum I suggest that we take Mother Mary's advice ...

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Tom Sefton
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 1:00:45 am

Good one herb.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 2:59:12 am

[Dustin Parsons] "merge the XXX or Not: The Debate forums into one forum."

Oh lord no... The Cloud debate forum is, IMO and with all due respect to those who are fighting the fight, sort of monotonous. While there are certainly tiresome topics here, at least it's uh... eclectic. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 9:46:38 pm

[Dustin Parsons] "merge the XXX or Not: The Debate forums ."

I think this is a wholly different website?


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James Culbertson
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 12:21:49 am

Is FCPX becoming the center of the universe?


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Bill Davis
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 4:29:11 am

[James Culbertson] "Is FCPX becoming the center of the universe?"

You've nailed it.

FCP-X - the singularity.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 4:31:16 am

[James Culbertson] "Is FCPX becoming the center of the universe?"

No, but the Debate is. :-)

Speedy reply from my phone: as open asze I am to suggestions for a new name, the forum already IS what people hope it WOULD be if only we changed the name. My concern remains that a new name would make the forum LESS of what it is.

And as long as some of you ppl insist on talking about FCPX sometimes, it should probably stay in the forum name. LOL

Herb, Macca and Mary still seem to be speaking the words of wisdom on this....

Tim
COW


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Jim Giberti
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 5:06:42 am

If it ain't broke...


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Mitch Ives
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 10:56:20 am

Exactly. Somebody else said it best... "this is where everybody is". Not sure how it ended up this way, but hey if it works...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 1:33:15 pm

I think the debate is over. But, if not, can we have an 'Avid-Is it really that old and slow?' forum? Or a 'Premiere-You call that an Interface?' forum? How about a 'Grumbling Old Linear Editors-This New-Fangled Computer Editing will Never Last' debate?

You know, things like that to keep the spirit alive!

:-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 3:09:19 pm

Less is the new more...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 3:31:28 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Less is the new more..."

… or not.


;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bill Davis
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 13, 2014 at 1:44:30 am

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Less is the new more..."

Except TRACKS.

We've gotta have us TRACKS

And MORE TRACKS.

Maybe someday BENDY TRACKS. And 3D TRACKS. And TRACKS with RAILS so you don't go OFF the TRACKS.

You don't wanna be one of those damn fool OFF ROADERS do you? Those idiots who want the freedom to drive outside the well established system of pavement and stoplights and road signs. And where the hell are they going anyway? Off to some distant mountain peak to take pretty picture or something? Who needs that. Civilized people know that it makes a whole lot more sense to stick to the system, baby.

And while you're at it, stop for your snacks at name brand gas stations and McDonalds and such where you never have to leave the familiarity of the superhighways where it's SAFE.

Heck, living without tracks would be kinda like trying to ride a bike without the damn training wheels - everyone knows that 4 wheels are WAY better than two - cuz it stands to reason that you'll surely FALL OVER without the stability of 4 wheels - and who the HELL would ever wanna do that!!??!!



(snapping out of it)
Oops, sorry - my brain got stuck in silly mode.

Nobody should feel bad, I used to LOVE tracks too. For more than 15 years and hundreds of programs I organized everything with them. They had simple rules I knew well. Timelines started at zero seconds. Horizontal left to right was my construction territory. And every track floated relative to time, disconnected from everything else above it or below it.

Now that's changed for me. I have new grouping possibilities that make a lot of my work much, much easier.
And I really enjoy the difference.

To each their own.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 9:47:08 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "But, if not, can we have an -"Premiere-You call that an Interface?"

oh, i'll step in on that one. As we all weep over the context of what adobe actually proved to be.

so OK - It's clean as a whistle, gunmetal dark, ludicrous snapping options, tilde key explode panel, magic mouse scroll to expand AV channels just so..

you do realise you don't have keyboard shortcuts for AV track height after three years in X right? Isn't anyone curious how insane that is?

I mean, alright I'm kidding, but at the same time I'm also not?
We're talking a half decade of development with no available keyboard shortcuts for track height?
what in the the merry hell? are they messing with you people?

I'm just saying - you deserve those shortcuts people.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 10:54:51 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "you do realise you don't have keyboard shortcuts for AV track height after three years in X right? Isn't anyone curious how insane that is?"

No
;-)





-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 11:43:17 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Apr 12, 2014 at 11:56:56 pm

nah. that's still a pretty bad selection realistically ;)

so... your whole team charlie is moving to ppro tho right? that's what you mentioned down below? the death of X in your workspace?

that it is shifting to ppro your end? bon chance.

It's interesting how many monthly subscription hits low level people are supposed to take lately.
they're taking it in the neck from adobe, red giant are following, intelligent assistance -

I'm personally curious how far these people are supposed to bleed the pig?

how many vendors can bleed the single creative pig at once in one month before it passes out?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 12, 2014 at 11:53:44 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "so... your whole team charlie is moving to ppro tho right? that's what you mentioned down below? the death of X in your workspace?"

Nope. Just looking at the options. Everyone in this little world is still FCP7 or Avid.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 13, 2014 at 4:22:27 pm

After seeing the new editing functions in DaVinci 11 and if it is not chock full o' bugs, there may be need for a Resolve DaVinci or Not: The Debate forum very soon. It's by far the most impressive NLE debut ever. It's what most of us wished FCPX was...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Tim Wilson
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 13, 2014 at 5:32:15 pm

[Lance Bachelder] " there may be need for a Resolve DaVinci or Not: The Debate forum very soon."

I thought that's what this forum was. LOL

For the record, the Resolve forum has been in the top 3 the most-viewed forums in the COW since pretty much the day it was released. I have a feeling that traffic there will be going up soon.


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Joseph Owens
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 13, 2014 at 5:52:53 pm

[Tim Wilson] " I have a feeling that traffic there will be going up soon."

Great. Just what we need.

Then can I suggest a "sticky" forum simply entitled "RTFM?"

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 14, 2014 at 12:41:06 am

[Lance Bachelder] "It's what most of us wished FCPX was..."

IF you were hoping for FCP 8....many of us like where FCPX is heading. And the interplay with Resolve looks very nice if you need it (or just have to have tracks back).

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Creative Cow in need of a new forum
on Apr 14, 2014 at 5:02:33 pm

Didn't say ALL of us - but MOST is fair.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: New Forum
on Apr 13, 2014 at 8:15:00 pm

Change The Forum Name or Not: The Debate

Franz.


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Tim Wilson
Re: New Forum
on Apr 13, 2014 at 8:33:55 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "Change The Forum Name or Not: The Debate"

Post of the year! Your check is in the mail.

And not entirely out of the running for the forum's new name....


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David Mathis
Re: New Forum
on Apr 14, 2014 at 8:32:23 pm

We could also name it "All Things Random" but then no topic would be off topic.


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Tim Wilson
Re: New Forum
on Apr 14, 2014 at 8:37:55 pm

There's something off topic now?


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David Mathis
Re: New Forum
on Apr 14, 2014 at 8:50:41 pm

No, just thought of a rather useless name for the forum. My bad.


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Steve Connor
Re: New Forum
on Apr 13, 2014 at 8:36:26 pm

[Franz Bieberkopf] "Change The Forum Name or Not: The Debate"

We have a winner!

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: New Forum
on Apr 14, 2014 at 12:55:39 pm

minted.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Mark Suszko
Re: New Forum
on Apr 14, 2014 at 3:36:41 pm

I had no idea you guys were all in here discussing things beyond choosing FCPx or not, due solely to the name. We got FCP-X earlier this year, so for me the debate is over.

If you're looking for a named forum idea, that what about one titled: "Technology "? Is that not specific enough?


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