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Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed

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Mike Jeffs
Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:07:43 am

I feel like this pertains more in this debate forum then the avid forum. But if not I apologize.

at nab in the avid booth they were doing something I hadn't ever seen before, that is using alpha builds of the next versions of software to demo different related avid products. Such as using a version of avid 8 at there shared storage kiosk. While there I was talking to a engineer who was using cool AMA features and full AMA aaf exports then going into resolve and linking to the same media he was AMA-ing. He was talking about all the 4k capabilities that they are working on adding (sadly not full 4k export) all while showcasing the new isis features just released. I truly couldn't believe how open he ( and others ) were taking about the future releases they were using. He was quite clear in saying this was all alpha software and they weren't promising that the features will for sure be in the release. But still this was a clear, and to me, a deliberate sign that they are wanting to be more open and forth coming to us the users. Obviously there was still some reasonable things they couldn't share but I feel like this was a first step in the right direction.

This was the same for other of there products such as interplay and protools, heck for protools I saw main stage presentations talking about and using alpha versions of the their protools software (sometimes unsuccessfully much to their shagrin).

Not sure if others noticed this or not but I found it great.

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho


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Andy Neil
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:41:54 am

Avid is just a constant source of disappointment. Their features list for new versions reads like technical bug fixes rather than significant additions to the software. And who gives a rats ass about 4K support when they can't even get the little things right? They will forever be a one step forward/two step back company because they allow themselves to be held hostage by a small number of intractable and unimaginative editors who can't be bothered to learn anything new. Say what you will about FCPX and Premiere (and now Resolve I suppose). They are not afraid to make significant changes to the way their programs operate.

But hey, at least I got an annoying little icon on my audio clips that can raise an lower the volume now.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 1:37:25 pm
Last Edited By Scott Witthaus on Apr 10, 2014 at 1:39:44 pm

Seems like the focus of the company is now shared storage, cloud, etc.,. Editing software is just a bolt-on to Avid Everywhere. Between premiere, X and now R11, I feel Avid is in real trouble outside their broadcast stronghold.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 2:11:33 pm

Gosh. At the end of the day, I'll take reliability over features. I've had far more frustrating experiences with FCP 7/X and Premiere than I've ever had with Avid. I ran into friends at the show running Premiere and heard some stories that certainly give me pause. Most of the issues in both cases seem to be related to bad exports.

Avid is what it is. Whether there's a true change in the works has yet to be proven. The folks who actually attended the Connect event came away feeling positive about the experience. I think rumors of Avid's demise are premature. For editors who like Avid, there really is no compelling reason to change to another NLE. The subscription model (as an option) may well attract new users.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:39:30 pm

I've been one of those who has been negative on Avid but I think Oliver is absolutely right.

I think the new pricing model for the NLE is exactly what they need to make software a bit more valuable to them and more palatable to the user.

Avid's not so much about bleeding edge features as their base is about reliability. What needed wasn't a "wiz bang" but a more profitable and attractive software business model. They've done exactly that.

Low cost of entry to subscribe complete with Symphony Option.
A buy option with subscription for updates and the ability for the user to exit, if they chose, and still have MC.
The ability to jump back in if you've exited, even though it's full price again (protecting Avid from loses from upgrade skippers).

Lots of options for the users and more revenue for Avid. Rather than antagonize their base, they now have avenues to expand their NLE sales and revenue... for those who value a conservative approach to features in exchange for reliability and key features other NLEs are still far behind on.



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David Mathis
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:55:49 pm

[Craig Seeman] "A buy option with subscription for updates and the ability for the user to exit, if they chose, and still have MC.
The ability to jump back in if you've exited, even though it's full price again (protecting Avid from loses from upgrade skippers).
"


I would like to know why, in the name of Jupiter that Adobe is really against this type of business model. Avid is taking a much better and fair approach. Yes, at the end of the day it is nothing more than a business decision but one I must respectfully disagree with. My two cents, whatever it is worth.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 4:25:13 pm

I can think of two reasons for the difference in approach.
Adobe is much more concerned about complete abandonment from users, hence the "no painless exit" strategy.
Adobe, a software only company, gives you everything with CC even if much of the software is completely unrelated to your business.

That doesn't make it a good business decision for a good portion of their users but Adobe, unlike Avid, is very willing to cut their user base while increasing profits IMHO. Apparently Adobe didn't have a model for maintaing or increasing their user base as well as profitability. I suspect a lot of it rested on development and marketing costs.



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Andy Neil
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:46:00 pm

[Oliver Peters] "At the end of the day, I'll take reliability over features."

I feel that Avid's reliability is more based on reputation than actual working software. I'm working on it now and I have plenty of reliability issues. As close to as many as I have with X or Premiere.

AMA is and always has been glitchy. Buffer underruns are common. Hardware glitches are more apparent in 7 than in any version since 4. And even if I'm not crashing or getting errors right and left, it shows it's age at every turn. I select a clip with audio scrubbing on and move it and the clip jumps back and forth for seconds before settling in the spot I want it to. If I turn off audio scrubbing, it works fine. You still can't raise and lower clip volume with a keyboard shortcut from the timeline, nor nudge keyframes or any of the time saving things you can do in pretty much every other app. Animating stills with any sort of finesse is a nightmare. The list goes on; this is just what is currently bothering me today about it. Yesterday, the timeline disappeared from my monitor while I was in the middle of working. I had to jump out of my settings and back in to get it back. As far as I'm concerned, Avid reliability is a myth or at the very least, a thing of the past.

[Oliver Peters] "Whether there's a true change in the works has yet to be proven."

After 30+ years? I'd say the default position is that Avid will always remain as it is. If down the road they surprise us, then I'll know that hell has frozen over and it's time to take another look.

[Oliver Peters] "For editors who like Avid, there really is no compelling reason to change to another NLE."

That's the same argument for any NLE. But in Avid's case, a small number of old film cutters with the ear of the company, resist any an all advancements in the way Avid works. There are tons of things that Avid could address in the UI alone to make it not feel so damn ancient, but old guard won't allow it. Just look at the ridiculous ire that was spewed with Avid's last major UI advance: the smart tool. I half-expected them to get rid of it after one version the way people cried about Avid being turned into FCP. Avid could use a little more FCP.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 4:09:41 pm

[Andy Neil] "but old guard won't allow it."

FWIW I think the risk of offending the old guard has a bigger price for Avid. A portion of the old guard are dependent in ISIS and the like and people switching away from Avid means a lose of hardware sales and maintenance contracts.

One question Avid is probably grappling with is making it attractive enough for those who aren't buying into ISIS systems so software becomes more profitable for them.

While I'm not sure what their next steps will be of course, it's noteworthy that the monthly subscription includes Symphony option. It's an additional cost if you go the purchase and subscribe route.

I think this is an attempt to expand their base with what they currently have.

http://www.avid.com/static/resources/common/documents/datasheets/Media_Comp...



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Andy Neil
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 4:44:58 pm

[Craig Seeman] "FWIW I think the risk of offending the old guard has a bigger price for Avid. A portion of the old guard are dependent in ISIS and the like and people switching away from Avid means a lose of hardware sales and maintenance contracts."

In my opinion, this is the perfect time for Avid to offend the old guard. What are they going to do? Jump ship from Avid? To what? Most of the people I work with on Avid would actually like to see some innovation from them. It's just a few codgers who don't want to change how they work, even if it makes them faster/better that are holding Avid up.

One of the biggest issues Avid has in my opinion is that they can't decide whether they're a software or hardware company. If they're a hardware company, then why not make ISIS a compatible and workable solution for other NLEs? They could become the workflow innovators. ISIS could be in FCP shops and Premiere shops and Avid shops. Then they could make a profit and not tie their hardware success to a singular piece of software.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:27:49 pm

You can and have been able to run other NLEs for years on ISIS. Now Avid is opening up the API to do project sharing (with a license fee) to other manufacturers of shared storage.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:32:52 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:33:51 pm

[Oliver Peters] "You can and have been able to run other NLEs for years on ISIS."

With the same feature set functionality on ISIS?
So FCPX would then allow simultaneous use of the same project as MC does?

AFAIK one needs MC/Symphony to take full advantage of ISIS unless you're saying that hasn't been the case for years.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:39:29 pm

Currently no. ISIS functions like any other shared storage. With the new APIs, it would depend on the way other NLEs implement it. Which would probably mean no. The point of opening the APIs is that other storage vendors can create a Unity/ISIS-style project sharing on non-Avid storage with MC clients connected to it. I realize some have already done their own solutions. This gives them an Avid-licensed and supported solution.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 8:50:15 pm

[Craig Seeman] "With the same feature set functionality on ISIS?
So FCPX would then allow simultaneous use of the same project as MC does?"


How could Avid give that functionality to FCP X when X and Avid take completely different approaches to what a project its? A project in Avid is just a folder that holds a collection of bins and sub-folders. A project to FCP is everything. You perform saves at the bin level in Avid where as you perform saves at the project level for X (and most other NLEs). Avid's approach is a very simple solution to the problem.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 9:03:28 pm

Just being clear that just because other NLEs might work with ISIS, it's not the same functionality as using MC/Symphony. Or at least Oliver clarified what I expected.

My point being there's a good feature reason for ISIS users to to also us MC/Symphony.



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 9:08:40 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Just being clear that just because other NLEs might work with ISIS, it's not the same functionality as using MC/Symphony. Or at least Oliver clarified what I expected.

My point being there's a good feature reason for ISIS users to to also us MC/Symphony."


Right. ISIS can be used a shared storage by anyone, but if you want the all cool things ISIS can do you need to be using it in conjunction with MC. This leads directly into my next question which is, w/o full ISIS functionality why would a non-Avid user choose ISIS over shared storage from EditShare or ProMAX?


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 4:46:45 pm

avid had a chance to aquire new younger uses when they purchased liquid, saddley they preffered to start change to a prosumer editor called avid studio wich could have been developed. into full pro nle but was sold to corel, now called pinnacle studio ultimate. hopefuly adobe will develop it further.

ricardo marty


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:18:28 pm

The characterization of old film editors holding Avid back is quite far from the truth. Take a look at the make-up of the boards for the Customer Association. If anything these are skewed in favor of enterprise users.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Mike Jeffs
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:25:00 pm

"The characterization of old film editors holding Avid back is quite far from the truth. Take a look at the make-up of the boards for the Customer Association. If anything these are skewed in favor of enterprise users."

I have to completely agree with this!

Now when it comes to enterprise which my facility is apart of a large enterprise that's has spend hundreds of thousands in avid development. The notion that they don't want to be on the bleeding edge is also far from the truth. I know this isn't true with all large enterprise. It certainly is in our case, we have used just about everyone of media composers new features that have saved us tons of time and money from background transcoding to frame flex to many others. Sadly features that are a god send to some are completely irelavent to others. Such as media composers cloud editing they are showing at their booth we don't need it but I'm sure others will love it.

There are lots of people and organizations who have sway( even more so with the ACA) that want features and updated to help us do our jobs better. But as Oliver said earlier stability and reliability are also majorly important because face it time is money and if you don't want to have even more headaches if you don't have to.


Obviously nothing is perfect and software is software and problems happen.

Lastly just to be clear that I'm not some koolaid drinking evangelist we use adobe and Fcp and now with BM announcment we will toy with the idea of resolve being used to edit some stuff. It's all about the right tool for the right job.

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:45:18 pm

Interestingly enough if Avid does shift more to be a profitable server and media management company, it might allow them to be a little more radical with the NLE, since it's not the focus of the revenue stream.

As for the ACA, it seemed to be heavily management/engineering and light on the creatives. Would you say that is true Oliver?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 9:07:53 pm

Regarding the ACA councils, I would say yes and no. Many of the management type members there came from creative ranks or still function in a creative capacity.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Phillips
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 10, 2014 at 11:33:41 pm

And I would add that old time, film editors would have no issue with a well designed, high performing UI design and interaction provided it did not interrupt the creative process. Storytelling is across many layers, versions, and screens. If you've ever seen a timeline from The Hobbit, or the project/bin management of a single project having over 5000 bins, that is the bar for performance expectation. They would welcome new approaches and version management of editorial.

For example, SmartTools got a lot of kickback because it did interrupt that process and with a bit more clever design could have pleased both old cranky editors as well as all those "FCP" style editors who like to work differently. There were a lot of "design choices" in v6 that changed things not for the better but in some cases worse and many were just a wash adding no additional value other than a different look.


Michael


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Andy Neil
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 2:53:05 am

[Michael Phillips] "I would add that old time, film editors would have no issue with a well designed, high performing UI design and interaction provided it did not interrupt the creative process"

[Michael Phillips] "SmartTools got a lot of kickback because it did interrupt that process and with a bit more clever design could have pleased both old cranky editors as well as all those "FCP" style editors who like to work differently."

I'm gonna call BS on that one. The smart tool has absolutely no impact on the editing experience whatsoever unless you activate it so the traditional Avid editor could just ignore it. But they didn't ignore it; they raised holy hell over it. They didn't like what it signified even though there were lots of editors who wanted a more FCP approach to clip handling. If they'd truly implemented FCP grab and drag, you might have had a point because that really would have been a disruption of typical Avid editing, but instead, they timidly chose a tool design that was trying to please everyone and ended up pleasing few.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Michael Phillips
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 3:06:43 am

Then you have a short memory. The complaining was for versions 6.0 through the next two dot releases that fixed SmartTool to not turn itself on when unexpected. When it first came out, turning it off did not keep it off and activated itself again after coming out of a trim mode causing havoc on the next click in the timeline. The "loud feedback" got SmartTool to be what it is now. But all of that could have been avoided with an implementation that:

1. Was defaulted active for new users.
2. Allow users who did not want it to not only turn it off and keep it off, but not have it in the UI.

This would have allowed the cranky editors to discover new trimming interactions on their own time and not in the heat of the moment when it may or may not work for their needs. Make it a user setting. And having it on for first time users would let them have expectations closer in line with other editing paradigms.


Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 3:08:43 am

But I agree with you that overall it was a copy of other editors and not a fully implemented direct interaction trim tool. The basic fact that Media Composer does not have a notion of "selection" makes a lot of the interaction design difficult and unpleasing from a user perspective.


Michael


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 11:23:49 am

"1. Was defaulted active for new users.
2. Allow users who did not want it to not only turn it off and keep it off, but not have it in the UI.

This would have allowed the cranky editors to discover new trimming interactions on their own time and not in the heat of the moment when it may or may not work for their needs. Make it a user setting. And having it on for first time users would let them have expectations closer in line with other editing paradigms. "

Michael you are so right. The solution above would quieted the famously cranky avid editor and allowed a new, more modern feature to be implemented. I was a beta tester on that one...wow. Why was that solution not implemented?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Chris Kenny
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 2:05:07 pm

[Andy Neil] "I feel that Avid's reliability is more based on reputation than actual working software. I'm working on it now and I have plenty of reliability issues. As close to as many as I have with X or Premiere. "

Yeah, a couple of months ago I had Media Composer crash during launch the first time it was ever opened on an iMac that had just been unboxed 20 minutes earlier and had basically nothing else installed on it yet. It's as temperamental as anything else, in my experience.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 2:10:45 pm

[Chris Kenny] "a couple of months ago I had Media Composer crash during launch the first time it was ever opened on an iMac that had just been unboxed 20 minutes earlier and had basically nothing else installed on it yet"

Were you running the version that matched the OS on that iMac? Avid software is temperamental about running on machines that match the qualified specs. iMacs work fine, but you have to make sure it's the right version.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Kenny
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 2:12:53 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Were you running the version that matched the OS on that iMac? Avid software is temperamental about running on machines that match the qualified specs. iMacs work fine, but you have to make sure it's the right version."

Yes, correct version. It launched on the second attempt and hasn't crashed during launch since. (Plenty of other odd issues, of course.)

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 2:14:44 pm

[Chris Kenny] "It launched on the second attempt and hasn't crashed during launch since."

Then that sounds normal for MC and just about every other application. I still have intermittent hard crashes with AE CC, which was never the case with AE CS6.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 2:35:00 pm

I think MC's reputation for reliability came from Avid's originally conservative position on "blessing" configurations and OS updates. There was a time when it would be months for Avid to approve even a .0x OS update.

I suspect that policy changed when so many other critical utilities, plugins, etc required a new OS version or took advantage of new hardware that Avid had not yet blessed.

I think developers all take a bit more "risk" in that they all try to be in step with updates when those OS updates include fixes and, often, improvements, their tools (or a competitor's tools) take advantage of.



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Andy Neil
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 3:52:22 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I think MC's reputation for reliability came from Avid's originally conservative position on "blessing" configurations and OS updates."

I've always attributed it to when they sold the entire system. They built these complete front to end edit bays and could control most of the aspects. But you're right, advancements are moving too quickly now to completely vet everything new thing that comes down the line. But then, if Avid's no more reliable than any other NLE, you're left with features. And Avid's feature set is specialized for some workflows and looks horribly outmatched in others.

People always seem to point out Avid's trim tool as its saving grace and sure, it's nice. But in the nearly 15 years I've been cutting on Avid I can count the number of times I've needed it for a trim I couldn't do in FCP7 or Premiere, on one hand. Even multi cam, which I always considered the best multi cam around feels antiquated. Why the hell do I have to enter quad split just to see my multi group angles? Why doesn't Avid just open quad split when a multi group is loaded into the source monitor? And why do I have to enter another "mode" when switching angles in the sequence? Comparing Avid's multi cam to FCPX or Premiere (and even FCP7 in some ways) and it's clear to me which program I'd rather not use with a multi cam project.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Chris Harlan
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 4:48:21 pm

[Andy Neil] "People always seem to point out Avid's trim tool as its saving grace and sure, it's nice. But in the nearly 15 years I've been cutting on Avid I can count the number of times I've needed it for a trim I couldn't do in FCP7 or Premiere, on one hand."

I don't quite understand this statement. People don't point to Avid's "trim tool;" they point to Avid's overall abilities at trimming. People like Media Composer's approach, complexity and overall feel when it comes to trimming. Or not. Really, it is taste. And, of course, the degree to which you inhabit all the options available to you. Personally, I love the way Avid trims, and it is still--marginally--my preference over its competitors. And, I've come to the modern Avid fairly late--in just the last few years--so its not because its an old habit that I'm not willing to override.


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Andy Neil
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 6:12:48 pm

[Chris Harlan] "People like Media Composer's approach, complexity and overall feel when it comes to trimming."

Perhaps then I'm the one who doesn't understand. What does it mean to like Avid's approach to trimming if not the trim tool? What other than that are people glomming onto? Tops and tails? Because both FCPX and Premiere have that. Track selection and sync locks? To me the only thing that ever separated Avid from other NLEs was the use of the trim tool. The fact that you get a 4 up display when making a slip or slide, or that you can trim asymmetrically. What am I missing?

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Chris Harlan
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 13, 2014 at 4:44:59 am

Hey Andy!

I don't think you don't get it; I think maybe you just don't like it. As I said, I think its a matter of taste, but what I'm pointing at--and what I think most people are pointing at--is Avid's entire approach to trimming--the notion of the mode, and the way the entire mode functions as a cohesive unit. When I first started getting back into Avid, I found the mode concept annoying. I much preferred FCP Legend's freeform approach. But the whole mode concept has grown on me--that I can stay in mode and use multiple approaches on multiple edits, that there are so many focused ways to trim, and so much info about the trimming. I enjoy it and appreciate it. It fits me.


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Andy Neil
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 13, 2014 at 6:12:05 am

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate trimming in Avid. I like it. It's just not enough by itself to sell it as the NLE of choice over the others out there. I agree that it's still the one area where there is some separation between Avid, X, and Premiere. But in most of the other feature areas, Avid is consistently losing ground because they're not innovating like they used to. I mean, they were the first ones to allow different codecs and frame rates and sizes all mixed seamlessly in the same timeline. Now days, it seems the only thing they do is mess around with AMA, which to me has always felt like a half-measure feature.

Andy

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107277729326633563425/videos


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Jok Daniel
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that notic
on Apr 12, 2014 at 7:58:48 pm

Reliability is about more than just stability, and in my experience, Media Composer's overall architecture is more robust than most.

The way MC deals with project files (every bin is a file on disk) has many advantages. For complex projects with tens of thousands of assets, Avid's design makes a whole lot of sense. On some other systems, I've had problems with corrupt project files. Never on MC.

MC's excellent media management, and its superior backward and forward compatibility also add to its overall dependability. It's just so easy to put your trust in MC. Its architecture is solid and its design flexible. That's what makes it reliable. Not that it crashes less than its competitors, which I doubt is the case.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 10:29:59 pm

[Oliver Peters] "The folks who actually attended the Connect event came away feeling positive about the experience. "

Yes. Having talked to a few of them, I wish I had attended.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 4:33:45 am

Avid nees to wake-up and move their booth back down to South Lower next year. We had a number of people ask us at the AJA booth - in the middle of NLE/post heaven - ask where the Avid booth was. Yeah it's upstairs surrounded by completely unrelated booths - strange.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Michael Phillips
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 5:53:21 pm

Once you lose your spot, it's very hard to get back. Grass Valley is not going to give it up unless they feel they have a better spot elsewhere.


Michael


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 7:17:16 pm

Maybe, but there was a lot of booth shuffling this year - we (AJA) had our biggest booth ever in a new prime spot as did RED, right across the aisle in a huge booth that included a mini 6K IMAX theater! I think you just have to be willing and able to pony up. Avid has a nice booth in a great location - it just happens to be in a hall with mostly unrelated products - newbies heading NAB to check out post products in South Lower would probably assume Avid didn't even show up.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:36:39 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "newbies heading NAB to check out post products in South Lower would probably assume Avid didn't even show up"

You mean people too stupid to look at a map or know how an escalator functions? ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Mike Jeffs
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:40:36 pm

And that Avids logo is plastered on every lanyard with you badge :)

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 8:23:15 am

Lol... you said it, not me!

By the way, it was a pleasure meeting you at the AJA booth Oliver.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 2:12:02 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "By the way, it was a pleasure meeting you at the AJA booth Oliver."

Me, too. It's always a pleasure to meet folks in person that we get to sort of know online ;-) One of the best parts of NAB.

Cheers,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Scott Thomas
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 6:48:09 am

I would bet that after what Avid did to us with their support of the MediaStream servers, we will never buy another Avid product.

Also, around 15 years ago, they gave the worst product demo to the company I work for. Higher-ups ended up buying Accom. Accom!!!

But it's a new day right? They have a lot of rebuilding of trust I think; and I hope they do, as I was once a big supporter.


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 11, 2014 at 6:08:40 pm

>Higher-ups ended up buying Accom. Accom!!!

By Accom, you mean the NLE made originally by Immix and bought by Accom? That would have been the DigiShpere, successor to the Video Cube.

Love, love LOVED the Video Cube! Best short form NLE I ever worked with (for that era, at least). (go ahead, flame away)


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Daniel Frome
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 12:18:14 pm

I'm not part of that 'old guard,' in fact I'm a relatively new Avid user, but it is my NLE of choice. Having said that...

It's true - all the newer NLEs are slowly chipping away at any Avid advantage. It's crazy, but true: I was able to download the FCPX trial last month and complete an edit faster than with Avid, despite having no real knowledge how to use it. That was a scary wake-up call. Even still, I continue to push Avid for new features and small optimizations, because I love their trim mode.

Media Composer does indeed feel like a tack-on to ISIS. It needs several functions to make it a better piece of software for independent editors. But that's the problem: their "base" doesn't include many editors from this realm. They probably don't hear much feedback from this point of view.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 12, 2014 at 3:47:10 pm

I am not sure there is an overall Avid "advantage" anymore. Certainly in broadcast and film they are king and recent moves show them to be protecting that base. Avid Everywhere is actually a good move for the company as it is aimed squarely at their base.

But outside this base (and it is a substantial market that others covet), Avid has lost traction. Small shops and indie folks don't really consider Avid in the mix. Premiere, X, FCP7 and now (predicting) Resolve 11 pretty much own that space. Not sure Avid can compete there or want to compete there.

Just one point of view....

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Daniel Frome
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 13, 2014 at 12:45:40 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "But outside this base (and it is a substantial market that others covet), Avid has lost traction. Small shops and indie folks don't really consider Avid in the mix. Premiere, X, FCP7 and now (predicting) Resolve 11 pretty much own that space. Not sure Avid can compete there or want to compete there."

Can't argue with you there (about the lost traction in the indie space). And why would they want to use it anyway? Unless you know Avid inside out, the workflows are going to be slower, more complicated, and more constraining. Still, I remain hopeful that they will allocate some resources into this space.

Notice how every indie music producer still wants a copy of Pro Tools? Media Composer should be gunning along the same path.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 14, 2014 at 1:17:59 am

[Daniel Frome] "Still, I remain hopeful that they will allocate some resources into this space."

Nice thought, but I can't see that happening. Nothing Avid is doing speaks to people like me, one-man show with MC on a laptop and a desktop. Nor do they speak to the small, 2-3 suite shop. Those guys have all gone to Premiere (from FCP7) or X, and will seriously consider Resolve. Avid simply isn't in the conversation. I can't even find an Avid suite to four-wall anymore. They made this bed many years ago and this is simply the result.

But, I think what Avid is doing to solidify it's core market is probably the best it can do at this time. Let's hope it works.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Daniel Frome
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 14, 2014 at 1:13:56 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Nice thought, but I can't see that happening. Nothing Avid is doing speaks to people like me, one-man show with MC on a laptop and a desktop."

That makes me so sad... I'd make a video to protest ... but transcoding and exporting would just take to long :p


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid slyly opening up at NAB for those that noticed
on Apr 14, 2014 at 5:24:15 pm

now THAT'S funny.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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