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Resolve 11 What is your plan?

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David Mathis
Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 8:41:05 pm

I knew that Black Magic would pull the rabbit out of the hat again but the news about Resolve 11 was just plain awesome. I will still stay with X, not going to abandon ship. Just curious as to who might jump over to Resolve 11 for editing as well. I like the trim features and the keyframing is very nice. On the other hand, love the idea of making generators inside of Motion for later use. Thinking of doing the heavy editing in Resolve and some finishing in X, at least on some projects. For smaller projects, going to use X from start to finish. Love to see what others think. Very exciting times ahead!


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Al LeVine
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 9:06:07 pm

We really need to evaluate it and scrutinize it hard before anybody jumps ship. It needs to be solid.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 9:10:14 pm

I'll wait and see how it does in the real world with things like asset management, online/offline workflow, multi-editor environment, speed and stability on large projects, etc.,. Multicam is also a must for me.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 9:24:27 pm

I think you may have misconstrued the intent of Blackmagic...

I think it's not their intent to create a "full-featured" NLE to replace your current NLE, but rather to provide a toolset for finishing editors to give them some fast and powerful editing capabilities so they don't have bail out of Resolve and into a NLE for tweaks, shot replacements, etc.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 9:34:38 pm

Agreed, but it is heading in that general direction. They did say online editing. Going to play the wait and see game, something worth considering, though. I plan to keep X on my system for a very long time, not going to jump ship.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 9:46:22 pm

But, for the record, you should look at Smoke as a perfect example of a very powerful finishing tool, that had editing capabilities, but was never considered to be a fully-fledged editing application. Even now, since it has been given even vastly more editing capabilities, there are very few, if any, who would consider using Smoke as a true editing app in place of Avid, Adobe, or X.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 10:20:58 pm

I see it as a finishing tool that could be perfect for avoiding jumping in and out of FCP7 or PR as I currently do. The editing functionality is less important but by Resolve 12 who knows.

Clearly Blackmagic are heading towards a full NLE but competing with Pr/Ae dynamic linking will be hard. If they start adding sophisticated compositing and plugin makers start supporting them then game on.

Personally I would like to see that text, credit rolls and stills handling be well translated from other NLEs. I love the fact that it also is handling multiple file AND tape deliverables. Now if we could just get a universal XML format that all other NLE makers can adhere to then my life would be so much easier.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 10:28:06 pm

hi, stupid question david - do you know anyone shifted from fcp to ppro at all thinking about, or talking about employing speedgrade for internal production house finishing for certain kinds of stuff?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 10:53:22 pm

I'm not David, but I know several companies who cut in Premiere Pro and grade in SpeedGrade.

Re - Resolve 11. It's a finishing tool. Think Scratch or Smoke (minus the effect tree compositing). Capable, but weak master clips management for large scale editing. Yes, you can add/tag metadata, but that's not the same as what you can do in most of the other options. I also think they will want to do much more with it.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:29:51 pm

Hollywood’s most powerful color corrector is now also the world’s most amazing editor!

That's what it says at the top of the Resolve 11 product page. Nothing about online. In fact, that word isn't anywhere on the page.

"Now you can edit, color correct, finish and deliver all from one system!"

I don't know that they can state their vision any more succinctly.

That said, alllll the way at the bottom of a very long page, they talk about roundtripping, and being the world's most compatible solution -- and I think it's hard to argue otherwise -- but it's anything BUT the central message. It's the LAST message.

I certainly agree that their position now is "Use what you want to edit, and finish with us," with the goal that more people will take advantage of editing and finishing in one place.

It's almost beside the point, though. It's not like BMD make any more money if somebody stops using another NLE. The object is just to sell Resolve. If the most compelling story to you is "I can use it with what I have!" - great. If the story that makes you open your wallet is "Wow, I can edit it with it too!" then that's great too.

Because he's been around this industry as a broadcast guy, and Blackmagic has its own post house, Grant Petty remembers first hand that no matter how many compositing features Final Cut Pro added, After Effects wasn't going away...even after Apple introduced Motion...which offered its own compelling uses even for After Effects whizzes. The days of using one toolset are long, long gone.

On the other hand, Grant has never been known for the modesty of his ambition. Swinging for the fences is perfectly realistic if you know how to hit something out of the park. What they've done with Resolve in these few short years make me think pretty much ANYTHING is realistic in the next few.

Really, who needs a flux capacitor when you can bus power time travel over Thunderbolt 2 and USB 3? I'm just saying.


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:57:42 pm

I guessed I dreamed up hearing online editing. Perhaps that was from watching a video. Bins, tracks, plug-in support, and very nice trim tools makes me think it could be used an online situation. Will have to wait and see. This news makes me more and more optimistic about where things are headed.


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 12:05:10 am

[Tim Wilson] "That's what it says at the top of the Resolve 11 product page. Nothing about online. In fact, that word isn't anywhere on the page."


* Edit *

I did go back to the Black Magic Design website. On the main page I clicked on the circle with a 2 in it. Right there it did mention online editing. I did not dream this up after all.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 7:13:31 am

[Tim Wilson] "What they've done with Resolve in these few short years make me think pretty much ANYTHING is realistic in the next few."

Having spent almost an hour with it today, I agree with you.

I think people are underestimating this. The interface looks just like X to me, but with far better trimming tools and a bunch of things we had in 7 that we lost in X.

A friend of mine that was an FCP7 user that went to Premiere, but isn't happy with the subscription model, is considering Resolve 11 as his primary editor...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Richard Herd
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 8:13:42 pm

[Tim Wilson] "The days of using one toolset are long, long gone."

Oh no...








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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:51:22 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Re - Resolve 11. It's a finishing tool. Think Scratch or Smoke (minus the effect tree compositing)."


no totally - I'm fairly familiar with resolve at a distance, I've sat in once or twice with stuff being finished on it. I even half know one of the scratch assimilate reps at nab. she is a very cool lady.
I'm just curious about speedgrade potentially handling mid level material where the key advantage is premiere pro maintaining the master edit.
whether there is a logic in dumping a tangent wave down in a colour safe-ish room and seeing where it goes. dragging a daily rate colourist in.

people over here tend to go somewhere to go to resolve.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:51:45 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:58:45 pm

At this point I have not heard anything along those lines. It might be a possibility, after all Adobe is know for its tight integration with "Dynamic Link". I have never used Speed Grade personally, it looks like a solid piece of software.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:56:20 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "hi, stupid question david - do you know anyone shifted from fcp to ppro at all thinking about, or talking about employing speedgrade for internal production house finishing for certain kinds of stuff?"

As you know Aindreas, there are NO stupid questions... :)

I do indeed have some customers who have switched to ppro who are using Speedgrade for color correction and grading. Not a lot really, but that's simply because Resolve lite is free, and many who are committed to learning a new tool would simply prefer to use the tool considered my most to be either the "state of the art," or the most widely used by professionals in their market space.

David Roth Weiss
ProMax Systems
Burbank
DRW@ProMax.com

Sales | Integration | Support

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:59:47 pm

I'm with David. We can try to divine BMD's grand plans all we want, but right now it looks like Resolve is gonna be an awesome finishing tool.

Yes, you can edit with it, and possibly quite well. I don't know how Apple feels about the UI uh... similarities to X, but it looks to me like I can import my X projects and maybe learn some color correction in a familiar workspace, fine tune cuts etc. But honestly, it could copy or surpass pretty much everything about X and I'd still prefer the latter. I like the way key framing seems to work in Resolve 11. The dynamic trimming and related stuff looks cool too. But there's a lot more to how X works than those things.

The deciding factor for me is the one, very important thing that Resolve has which X does not. Tracks.
And tracks suck. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 12:55:30 am

It should also be noted that Resolve is not dependant on Mac hardware. This forum is pretty Mac hardware centric but for many like me who has gone back to PC to get PCIe slots, real grunt and lots of NVIDIA goodness, I am liking the finishing idea in Resolve a lot. Saves bouncing files onto slower externals to move back to a different machine.

I also like the idea of having multiple versions being made on the delivery page as the grades are being rendered. I think what many have overlooked is having to setup and make DCP, web files, bluray and DVD versions after creating a master file, after transfering and finishing in Pr, or FCP. I spend a lot of time waiting for things to render, then xml bounce and then output final render and then setup media encoder to do the rest. This is big being able to grade/ finish in one timeline and then do ALL versions in one delivery page. I also still have to go to HDCam/ digibeta from time to time. Again it all happens in the one place with Resolve 11.

For small projects I will try the complete edit/ finish but I am not an editor and my projects are usually simple music vid or short docos.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 2:14:27 am

One more thing to note is that Resolve 11 is adding HQ/HQX support for Edius intermediate codecs plus Edius is adding AAF round tripping so da Vinci is also adding more NLEs to the round trip roster with this release


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tony west
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 5:27:42 am

[Charlie Austin] "The deciding factor for me is the one, very important thing that Resolve has which X does not. Tracks"


Yes.

11 looks really cool and if there was no X I would be on it

I like too much about X at this point.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 5:40:16 am

I'm going to amend my thoughts on Resolve 11 as only being a finishing editor. Resolve 11 is significantly ahead of Resolve 10 in the editing department. At the end of today, I went back and spent about half an hour with the demo artist going deeper into the editing features. It really is a strong editor and is the best blend of FCP 7 and FCP X that I've seen. This is the editor that (insert your NLE choice here) SHOULD have been. There are obvious gaps, like lack of multicam, but I believe this will get even stronger over time. It IS a serious editor, but of course, until R11 gets out in the wild, it will be unknown what the true performance is.

Naturally, with OpenFX plug-ins, it won't have the type of DIY ecosystem enjoyed by FCP X thanks to Motion templates. That probably won't change if they want to maintain easy cross-platform support. OTOH, BCC9 will support it and others are to come. I came away very impressed that you could actually work a project start-to-finish in R11. For the FCP X users, there's a real solid synergy between FCP X and R11 going in both directions. For Symphony users, it's utterly heart-breaking thinking that this is what users would pine for. A simple toggle flips you between edit and color modes.

As I was going through the demo, a DP who cuts his stuff on FCP 7 walked up. He damn near wet his pants when he realized he could move from FCP 7 to this for FREE. In his words, "... and I don't have to pay @$#*! thirty bucks a month for it!"  ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 6:24:48 am

[Oliver Peters] "I'm going to amend my thoughts on Resolve 11 as only being a finishing editor. "

You're welcome. LOL

I appreciate you taking the time to get a full demo, and I'm glad to hear your observations.

[Charlie Austin] "I'm with David. We can try to divine BMD's grand plans all we want."

My point above is no, we don't need to try to divine their grand plans. They TELL us, with one of the most elegant, carefully designed product pages I've ever seen. So, having spent all this time and money, what do they TELL us?

Before then, do note that, in a longer version of my previous post (and yes, I do edit my posts), I had in fact observed that in some of the teases, they did use the word online...so I didn't mean to imply that it was your imagination, David...but on the product page, not at all.

So, what DOES it say on the actual, massive page?

I quoted you the opening earlier:

"...the world's most amazing editor!"

"...now you can edit, color correct, finish and deliver all from one system!"

"...[everything] you need to manage your entire workflow."






What I'm doing here is the opposite of Kremlinology. Kremlinology is trying to find the truth that people are being paid to hide. In this case, I've suggested that we listen to what people are paid to tell us. LOL

With the additional difference that the Kremlin has more to hide than to tell, while Blackmagic has more to tell than to hide. LOL

So I do in fact absolutely believe BMD when they say at the bottom of the page that they are the most compatible solution in the business. Who can argue that? They already are, and they're getting aggressively MORE compatible. (Speed Razor? Really?)

But I also absolutely believe them when they say they want to create the world's most amazing editor. Have they? Will they? That's your call. But what are they TRYING to do? Exactly what they say. They're not hedging their bets or mincing words. They're out to make the world's most amazing editor. Period.

Well, actually, the world's most amazing editor. Exclamation point! LOL

Kidding aside, I think they've earned the benefit of the doubt from us, that they mean what they say until proven otherwise. And they are NOT limiting their plans to onlining and finishing.

No kidding. Read the page.

If you're reading this and at the show, take the time for a deep dive like Oliver did and report back. :-)


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:16:49 pm

[Tim Wilson] "
Before then, do note that, in a longer version of my previous post (and yes, I do edit my posts), I had in fact observed that in some of the teases, they did use the word online...so I didn't mean to imply that it was your imagination, David...but on the product page, not at all."


Not a problem. Hope no offense was taken. I enjoy reading your posts -- they are entertaining and informative.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:32:23 pm

[David Mathis] "Hope no offense was taken. "

I didn't take any -- I hoped YOU didn't take any! It's all good. :-)


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Leonard Levy
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 7:06:25 am

I think I was that DP! I think i did have to change my shorts afterward. The BM demo guy ( an editor) told me he thought it was the most like FCP 7 of any of the new breed of NLE's - What the FCPX ( or should i say FCP 8) should have been. He was either a helluva BS artist for someone just hired to demo at the show, or he was telling the truth when he said it floored all the guys they hired to demo . Another guy showed me how easy it was to import an FCP 7 project and start going right away.
I'm a DP who does some cutting though not a real editor so time will tell if it delivers or not, but it sure looked great. It felt like 7 to me but I don't know anything about X. Tried to learn X but just got drustrated at the get go and went back home to 7.
Also they said it was very easy on the processing hardware and you could function fine on a Macbook Pro. Multicam will be a future upgrade. Most exciting thing at the show for me and completely unexpected. I hope it delivers on its promise. he also showed me some very impressive and impressively fast noise reduction.
Oh yeah and its Free for HD!

Lenny



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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 10:44:55 am

In the past da Vinci noise reduction was only available in the paid dongle version. Are you sure it will be available in 11 lite?

Oliver, in the demo was it possible to copy parts of one timeline into another, in other words have multiple sequences? As I always have multiple sequences/ versions of a finished job and often have to copy paste revision elements between versions, did Resolve 11 show any capacity for multi sequences a la FCP7 or PR?


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 10:56:18 am

At this point, I see R11 as a finishing tool on projects that need its color power. But what I can finish in X I will. For non-broadcast stuff most will stay in X. Not gonna force the issue if there is no need.

However, as a freelancer, I can see shops moving this way, so R11 is another one to learn. And yes, Symphony folks must be bitter at this release.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 12:22:22 pm

It seems like the big difference between free and paid is noise reduction (and stereo 3D).

Is DaVinci Noise reduction worth $999?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 1:29:10 pm

Also the free version goes up to QuadHD (UHD), while the paid version can exceed that. I think there's also a limit of 2 GPUs for LITE.

Michael - regarding multiple sequences - I don't know. It also has a mixer.

It's supposed to be ready for download in June.

Since many X users like the organization in X and they like the plug-ins, I think you'll see many starting in X to build the basic cut. And for the proxy/transcode workflow. Then go to R11 for finessing the edit and grade. Then back to X for additional filter effects and outputs in multiple format outputs.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Hancock
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 1:39:53 pm

Oliver -

Did the demo guy drive R11 with the keyboard or primarily with the mouse? I watched all the demos on the Blackmagic site and the majority of the time it was very mouse driven (which may have just been for show).

Can't wait for it to drop in June. Very interesting time to be in post!

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 1:44:59 pm

He ran most of the demo with the mouse, but there were a few keystrokes used. It uses the FCP "legacy" keyboard map, like R10 does, although he mentioned you could bring in other settings. He did crash once during the demo, but that's not uncommon. It's still alpha software at this stage.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 2:13:09 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Then go to R11 for finessing the edit and grade."

Define "finesse the edit"? Not sure why you would not want to lock picture before going over to R11.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 2:42:01 pm

I'm just thinking out loud, but finessing, as in additional trimming, mixing with a mixer panel, resizing clips creatively. Also it is often not possible anymore to lock the cut, thanks to the way clients work these days. That discipline seems to have been lost years ago for many ;-)

In any case, I'm looking at possible workflows that become more fluid than we are used to. Having advanced grading and editing combined is a very good move. That's why systems like Symphony and Pablo exist in the first place. That's what Adobe is trying to achieve with the Direct Link between Premiere Pro CC and SpeedGrade CC.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 2:50:59 pm

[Oliver Peters] "That discipline seems to have been lost years ago for many ;-)"

Agree!

[Oliver Peters] "In any case, I'm looking at possible workflows that become more fluid than we are used to. Having advanced grading and editing combined is a very good move"

Also agree. I also really like the opportunity to move easily from my storytelling platform to a colorists system. I confess I am no colorist, so this ease of movement is a good thing.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:04:59 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I'm just thinking out loud, but finessing, as in additional trimming, mixing with a mixer panel, resizing clips creatively. Also it is often not possible anymore to lock the cut, thanks to the way clients work these days. That discipline seems to have been lost years ago for many ;-)"

And also shot replacement.

Many times, I have to work with temp shots until they come back from graphics or whatever.

Now, I have to add the new shot in NLE timeline, resend an exchange file, import the exchange file and conform the timeline in the grading system.

Now with more editing capability, I can simply import the new shot and edit in the to the timeline right in Resolve. I am really looking forward to this.

I just wish it would work with AJA hardware. :(

Does the $999 version allow third party video out?

Jeremy


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:09:21 pm

Just looks like X with tracks. And I am faster without tracks.

But yeah, if we can have access to X libraries for shot replacement while finessing/color in Resolve would be a nice thing.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:23:25 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:24:37 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Just looks like X with tracks. And I am faster without tracks."

I concur. I don't even know if I'm empirically faster, but once you get used to never even thinking about whether an edit will "fit" somewhere, it's really annoying to work any other way. I really think it's easier even to make a J or L cut. I can do it in the source window in a tracked NLE, or just as easily after the fact in X. I like the fact that *all* keyframes have bezier handles in R11, and the 4-up trim display looks nice. I imagine that if Apple keeps enhancing fcpxml as they have been, roundtripping is gonna be really easy, probably better than with any other NLE

[Scott Witthaus] "But yeah, if we can have access to X libraries for shot replacement while finessing/color in Resolve would be a nice thing."

If you use linked media you could just drag it into the media pool right? Can Resolve read Event XML? That would be pretty cool...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:09:18 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I just wish it would work with AJA hardware. :("

Call me crazy, but I suspect there's probably only one vendor whose hardware will work with R11. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:11:28 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Call me crazy, but I suspect there's probably only one vendor whose hardware will work with R11. ;-)"

If I pay them $1,000 for the privilege of using AJA hardware, shouldn't that be enough of a love tap?

I will go on record and say I have a really hard time trusting Blackmagic hardware, and that is from experience and not conjecture.

I know that plenty of people have had great luck with it.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 5:25:58 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "
If I pay them $1,000 for the privilege of using AJA hardware, shouldn't that be enough of a love tap?"


Well... no. Hardware lock-in is the real cost of premium software at fire sale prices. :-)

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 5:42:19 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Well... no. Hardware lock-in is the real cost of premium software at fire sale prices. :-)"

You mean I'm not getting something for nothing?

This is where Thunderbolt will certainly shine as I don't have to be locked in, I just have to buy two of something.

:( :) :(

Jeremy


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Shawn Miller
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 5:07:43 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "It seems like the big difference between free and paid is noise reduction (and stereo 3D).

Is DaVinci Noise reduction worth $999?"


There are a few more differences. Some of the most important (IMO) are lack of collaborative team workflows, 2 GPU limit (3 on other versions, up to 8 on Linux) and no "Real Time Timeline Power Mastering".

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/compare

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 5:25:45 pm

[Shawn Miller] "There are a few more differences. Some of the most important (IMO) are lack of collaborative team workflows, 2 GPU limit (3 on other versions, up to 8 on Linux) and no "Real Time Timeline Power Mastering"."

Good points, and those are well worth the money if you need them.


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 9, 2014 at 6:45:40 pm

I am a independent user but started out with the full version of Resolve as of version 7, upgraded every year. I think Black Magic gives a very nice feature set in the Lite version but the full version is at a very nice price point. I think it is worth this price, considering every update has been free. My two cents, whatever it is worth.


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Shawn Larkin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 1:54:34 am

It's been a while since I've chimed in on this stuff, but...

R11 can ripple its timeline very much the way X does without tracks. It's really like a trackless-track NLE.

So they have ingest, edit, grade, master (export) all covered in one system.

They also have a plugin architecture that will allow for any number of things; including plugins to help motion graphic creation. OR..

If they build in 3D compositing, then it is basically a Smoke for free, and I have a feeling they will by the next release.

So for my money, I see this as an end-to-end tool for a ton of situations.

Maybe unscripted content is best off in X for tagging and logging with its superior metadata. And multi cam is an obvious choice in X now.

But wait a year or two. BMD is aiming for most of post creation with Resolve.

Didn't you guys see this coming based upon how they roll each year?


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 2:07:28 am

[Shawn Larkin] "It's been a while since I've chimed in on this stuff, but...

R11 can ripple its timeline very much the way X does without tracks. It's really like a trackless-track NLE.

So they have ingest, edit, grade, master (export) all covered in one system.

They also have a plugin architecture that will allow for any number of things; including plugins to help motion graphic creation. OR..

If they build in 3D compositing, then it is basically a Smoke for free, and I have a feeling they will by the next release.

So for my money, I see this as an end-to-end tool for a ton of situations."



Good summary... my thoughts exactly, but better phrased than I could have.

This whole thread is difficult to assess. Lots of people commenting with no way of knowing whether they've physically played with 11... seen 11 in person... just watched a video... or channeling from the netherworld.

I see people dissing it, but I'm not sure they have even seen it yet? I find that threads that reference getting a demo or testing it, or ones where they have clearly used it a lot more useful

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Shawn Larkin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:47:56 am

I know some of the development of the product (without going into details) and can say one thing for sure: It's no accident editing occurred in Resolve last release and they started rolling this software out as "NLE agnostic" for finishing and onlining before adding:

1) A feature set that takes the best ideas from FCP7, X, PP, Avid, Smoke which they will continue to build on.

2) A way for developers to build more stuff -- even a plugin for 3D Compositing if they don't build it in first.

3) Collaborative timeline tools so multiple editors, mgfx, and colorists can work off the same project at the same time.

You would have to be blind to ignore what their strategy is. But this fits how the approached the camera market and basically every part of the production-to-post tooling they have their hand into. They are playing for keeps. And this software is WAY more advanced with more tools developed faster than I knew was even possible. Look at how long it took Smoke to get 2013 off the ground and continue to develop; it's still not the most beautiful / functional design, but it works well finally. But BMD are killing it. And yes, I DO USE R10 regularly and FCPX regularly -- together.

I really was sort of hoping I could use Resolve for most jobs and fall back on X for organization, ingest, and jobs with a lot of footage to manage until they reach a tipping point. By design I think it is better for that stuff. But once you have a build and most media -- as others have mentioned in this thread -- you might as well just finish it *** including deliverables *** with Resolve. Small or medium projects can just be Resolve only UNLESS you need lots of gfx or compositing.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 4:02:12 am

[Shawn Larkin] "And yes, I DO USE R10 regularly and FCPX regularly -- together."

I'm actually hoping it does work, and well, for (kind of) this reason. At my little shop, people are still grinding away on FCP 7. And the prevailing wisdom (despite the fact that I'm pretty much exclusively on X) is that Pr will be "easier" for our editors to get up to speed on. Which means that, other than projects I'm flying solo on, I'll be in Pr too. And I really, really don't like cutting in a tracked timeline anymore. And I really like the metadata power of X, makes my job so much easier.

But... R11 could be even easier for folks coming from 7 to get up to speed on than Pr, and it should interact very nicely with X so... I can have my cake and eat it too. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 2:57:04 pm

[Charlie Austin] "And I really, really don't like cutting in a tracked timeline anymore. And I really like the metadata power of X, makes my job so much easier.

But... R11 could be even easier for folks coming from 7 to get up to speed on than Pr, and it should interact very nicely with X so... I can have my cake and eat it too. :-)"


I really think you should take a closer look at 11... it's not tracks the way most people think of them. Someone else referred to them as a "trackless/track" approach. I'd agree... it's different, and IMO more flexible than all tracks or no tracks.

I know this will piss off a lot of people, but everywhere I went in NAB I kept hearing the same thing: "Resolve 11 is what X should have been". None of them seemed to be dissing X, and neither am I... it's just once you see it, it's a natural reaction. It's very polished... very Apple-like. If you use X, the interface is damn near identical... the Inspector is a dead ringer. Resolve 11 seems to be all the good from X plus all the great stuff from 7 that we lost in X. The intuitive trimming will have all the other NLE's re-thinking their trim modes, IMO.

Your mileage may vary...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:08:33 pm

[Mitch Ives] "very Apple-like. If you use X, the interface is damn near identical... the Inspector is a dead ringer. Resolve 11 seems to be all the good from X plus all the great stuff from 7 that we lost in X. The intuitive trimming will have all the other NLE's re-thinking their trim modes, IMO.

Your mileage may vary..."


I'm sure that's true, and I'll absolutely be checking it out. But the trackless timeline isn't all there is about X that makes my life easier. The way the browser works, KW collections, smart collections etc. The TL index, Roles, Clip Skimming, Auditions, Audio Components... things like that are a huge part of it as well...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:10:16 pm

[Charlie Austin] "I'm sure that's true, and I'll absolutely be checking it out. But the trackless timeline isn't all there is about X that makes my life easier. The way the browser works, KW collections, smart collections etc. The TL index, Roles, Clip Skimming, Auditions, Audio Components... things like that are a huge part of it as well..."

Absolutely... I don't think I suggested removing X... :-)

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 4:18:00 am

[Shawn Larkin] "You would have to be blind to ignore what their strategy is. "

I thought it was to buy Avid???

heh heh.

3) Sounds idyllic but also like a cluster (f) bomb. For color, sure, but multiple editors editing at the same time sounds zany, and I like to remain open minded about all possibility including:

- Third party video out of Resolve

- Final Cut Pro Ten 2; The Return of the Legend of FCP Legend; A Haunting

- and Adobe Creative Cloud Lite; Rent-By-Minute.


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Gabe Strong
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:29:22 am

I am with the former FCP 7 editor referenced earlier. I moved to CS6 as I had a hard time picking up
FCPX. Then came the CC 'rental only' move. Currently I use FCP 7, CS6, and a little FCP X
for quick cuts only stuff. As much as some of you hate tracks, I like them. And currently my
options are pay rent, which isn't going to happen, or keep struggling to learn FCP X, which I've been
doing for 3 or 4 months. So I, for one, will jump all over Resolve 11.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Shawn Larkin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:55:35 am

I struggled with X for a while too. It has matured enough so you can "get around" the timeline now without being super creative because Apple have figured out how to allow you to do all those things you need to without tracks (most of the time anyways).

My gripe has always been: Sometimes tracks are better for particular tasks and I wish you could switch them on / off.

This version of Resolve kind addresses that with how it's rippling feature set is integrated. At least in the demo. I have not used R11 yet.

Jeremy:

For the collaboration side, the demo also shoes how this works with accepting or denying a change in the timeline. I have a feeling, that if you deny a change, there is a tracked way to keep what was there while the other person continues with the change. I mean, the BMD guys get those things happen.

Anyhow, my final feelings with Resolve is if people "get it" then it will get a lot of people jumping on it -- pros and tinkerers. I mean, it's free and it's so powerful and it's design is impeccable.


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 1:16:36 pm

[Shawn Larkin] "I struggled with X for a while too. It has matured enough so you can "get around" the timeline now without being super creative because Apple have figured out how to allow you to do all those things you need to without tracks (most of the time anyways).

My gripe has always been: Sometimes tracks are better for particular tasks and I wish you could switch them on / off.

This version of Resolve kind addresses that with how it's rippling feature set is integrated. At least in the demo. I have not used R11 yet."


I agree and the trim tools in Resolve look great. This is one area Final Cut Pro X needs to address. I also like the fact how you can edit the keyframes directly in the timeline, that is a great feature.

[Shawn Larkin] "
Jeremy:

For the collaboration side, the demo also shoes how this works with accepting or denying a change in the timeline. I have a feeling, that if you deny a change, there is a tracked way to keep what was there while the other person continues with the change. I mean, the BMD guys get those things happen.

Anyhow, my final feelings with Resolve is if people "get it" then it will get a lot of people jumping on it -- pros and tinkerers. I mean, it's free and it's so powerful and it's design is impeccable."


Well said, this latest release looks to be a game changer. This might become the next version of Smoke, it is heading in that direction.


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Jim Cunningham
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 2:54:44 pm

From a visual cutting/CC capability it looks very strong. However, there are very limited capabilities with audio. Maybe xml to ProTools or Audition for processing and such, and the reps on site really haven't thought about audio at all.

Funny, even w/ their cameras, audio seems to be low on the priority list for BM.

Cheers,

Jim



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 2:56:48 pm

[Shawn Larkin] "For the collaboration side, the demo also shoes how this works with accepting or denying a change in the timeline. I have a feeling, that if you deny a change, there is a tracked way to keep what was there while the other person continues with the change. I mean, the BMD guys get those things happen."

I guess I have to check these demos everyone keeps pointing out.

I think it'd be awesome to be able to edit and color correct on the same timeline by multiple people.

[Shawn Larkin] "Anyhow, my final feelings with Resolve is if people "get it" then it will get a lot of people jumping on it -- pros and tinkerers. I mean, it's free and it's so powerful and it's design is impeccable."

I am looking forward to it. I think initial rough cuts and organization in X is too easy and powerful to deny, but it'll be great to move to Resolve in later stages, that time when the cut is pretty tight but not quite locked, and still be able to get real work done without a lot of conforming changes or back and forth.

As far as compositing in Resolve, there's already a node system, masking, tracking, keying, they'd "just" have to add some deeper compositing tools. I guess I could see how that could be the next logical step, but that's a pretty huge step.

Cool. I think I need to watch these demos so I can get my hopes up and be disappointed with yet another missed release date. ;)

Jeremy


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Walter Soyka
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:02:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "As far as compositing in Resolve, there's already a node system, masking, tracking, keying, they'd "just" have to add some deeper compositing tools. I guess I could see how that could be the next logical step, but that's a pretty huge step."

Agreed. I see a lot of people comparing a hypothetical R12 with compositing to Smoke, but I think the leap from color corrector to NLE, while significant, is much smaller than the leap from color corrector to 3D compositing.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:08:12 pm
Last Edited By Mitch Ives on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:09:00 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "As far as compositing in Resolve, there's already a node system, masking, tracking, keying, they'd "just" have to add some deeper compositing tools. I guess I could see how that could be the next logical step, but that's a pretty huge step.

Cool. I think I need to watch these demos so I can get my hopes up and be disappointed with yet another missed release date. ;)"


The step between 10 and 11 was huge. I'm no longer thinking that 12 can't close that gap. I'm not saying Smoke, just closer.

Jeremy, do yourself a favor, don't watch the demos. Get on a machine with 11 somewhere. It's different. I found the videos interesting. Standing at the machine... asking Joe tough questions and seeing how it all integrates had me grinning like crazy. As I said, my Premiere using friend only stood there because I wanted to see it. By the end, he was sold (he was a 7 user before X, when he switched to Premiere).

It's kind of like a car auction... watching it on TV isn't the same as standing next to the car...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:02:48 pm

[Shawn Larkin] "I struggled with X for a while too. It has matured enough so you can "get around" the timeline now without being super creative because Apple have figured out how to allow you to do all those things you need to without tracks (most of the time anyways).

My gripe has always been: Sometimes tracks are better for particular tasks and I wish you could switch them on / off."


Well said. I now have enough work-a-rounds for X that it's workable. I guess my question is: why should I have to have work-a-rounds? Why not have an interface that's more flexible?

And yes, if your being honest with yourself, there are times where tracks are a superior approach. Not always, but sometimes. Resolve seems to have noticed that. In the old days Apple would have done this, not BMD...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 3:11:22 pm

[Mitch Ives] "there are times where tracks are a superior approach"

I'm honestly not being contentious here but, leaving aside from mixing audio (as it stands right now, kind of a kludge in X) ... When?

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 4:20:42 pm

I'm sure there will be lots of opinions on this, but for myself, I do a lot of complicated comps and I do them in FCP, not AE or other places. In FCP7 I once had 70 layers. I've been doing this long enough that I don't knock things out of sync. I don't need a seat belt to keep me from screwing up, so the magnetic timeline isn't as valuable to me as it is to others. My students would have loved the ML.

Second, it's easier to organize and visualize big projects using tracks. I know not everyone does big projects, but it's easier to bring in someone else in the middle of a project if there's some structure to the project. FCP X is perfect for single users who do the whole thing themselves.

Lastly, as I watching the advanced trimming in R11, I was trying to imagine how you could do a complicated asymmetric trim in X? Or how you'd trim some combination of video and/or audio, while not trimming others.

Again, if your project is simple, none of this matters. The guys I know that love X the most are single users with pretty straight forward projects. I'm not insulting anyone here... there are no small projects, only small editors (apologies to actors everywhere)...

So on some projects tracks would help, while on others tracks would slow things down. I like options, and I particularly like the hybrid approach of R11. I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts once you work with it.

Then again, I could be wrong altogether...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 4:13:00 pm

[Mitch Ives] "And yes, if your being honest with yourself, there are times where tracks are a superior approach. Not always, but sometimes. Resolve seems to have noticed that. In the old days Apple would have done this, not BMD..."

I am totally honest about all of this stuff behind the wall of a few successful, but mostly failed jokes, cheeky humor, and overly conversational writing that I have trouble reading back, even to myself.

What FCPX is missing is refinement of the trackless approach. I watched the editing demo of Resolve 11 on the website, and honestly, I would not want to go back to that full time. IF FCPX had heads up trimming display (which it does, just not when you use the keyboard), and a way to connect secondary clips to each other (or if you could have layered secondary containers), and if there where as easier way to select and manage layers (which seems to have started with the bouncing playhead ball), and a way to slip audio components separately (which seems like it could be entirely possible within the current FCPX UI) then FCPX would be far more track like without having to rely on tracks.

I have never used asymmetric trimming, I have never marked split in and out points before adding it to the timeline. FCP7 had both of those features. Maybe I am a terrible editor because of it, but not having those features is not something that keeps me awake at night.

For now, there may be limitations, but then I could call track targeting and autoselect a limitation while others would call it a feature. It truly is in the eye of the beholder, and nothing well ever be perfect or bug free.

The Resolve 11 inspector is awesome. The interface is great to look at, and of course the grading tools are an industry leader.

I'm not bagging Resolve 11 because I watched a video online. It looks amazing, and I am really excited about it. But X's import, organization, and rough to fine cut are working extremely well for me. It did take a while for Apple to get there (the tilde key was a big hurdle). I don't really mind because Resolve embraced FCPXML very early, so hopefully Resolve will be a perfect X companion.

Is there a Resolve collaboration demo video, or is that only a live-and-in-person demo?

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 5:54:04 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Is there a Resolve collaboration demo video, or is that only a live-and-in-person demo?"

Found this out about collaboration on the website:

"Collaborative Editing and Grading

Now you can have an editor and multiple colorists working on the same timeline simultaneously! DaVinci Resolve 11 lets an editor and multiple colorists on different workstations share the same timeline and work in tandem as they complete shots. A colorist could be pulling a key or tracking windows while another colorist fine tunes grades that are immediately updated as the editor edits. The all new DaVinci Resolve collaborative workflow lets your creative team break down a large job into parts they can each work on separately!"


It seems it's one editor, multiple graders, which makes perfect sense to me.

By the way, the timeline keyframing in Resolve 11 looks totally badass.

Jeremy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:00:32 pm

It will be interesting to see how sharing actually works. This requires an appropriate server set-up. Resolve currently does not use a project data model like Premiere or FCP 7. Projects are hidden within the database unless exported. Presumably the sharing works through some form of shared database.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Larkin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:39:59 pm

To all the ado over what to use and when:

For smaller projects, I would just use Resolve. Why go from one EDL to the next?

For larger stuff, I see using X kind of like Adobe Prelude now. More of a setup and rough in tool.

So I guess if you like working in X, then you stay in it as long as possible. And if you like the tool set and paradigm in Resolve, you jump in as soon as you feel things are setup enough in X.

I'm obviously in the latter camp, but do feel comfortable and appreciate X too.

My perfect world scenario would have Resolve add 3D Compositing -- which I am sure will happen -- and some sort of amazing roundtrip feature for AE and Motion projects so it really was "all in one" but I won't hold my breath on that last one.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 6:56:33 pm

[Shawn Larkin] "My perfect world scenario would have Resolve add 3D Compositing -- which I am sure will happen -- and some sort of amazing roundtrip feature for AE and Motion projects so it really was "all in one" but I won't hold my breath on that last one."

It seems a lot of people have this desire. That Resolve will be able to act as a 3D compositor, and also round-trip to AE or Motion. I'm curious, how deep do you want the compositing to be... do you want to be able to do simple keying and maybe overlay a few graphics and text elements (which Resolve can sort of already do)? Or do you want to be able to build up complex shots with hundreds of elements and sophisticated effects... like Nuke?

Shawn



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Shawn Larkin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:07:48 pm

I want it to do what Smoke does now, but with more ease and better design.

For the round tripping, AE and Motion projects would allow for mgfx guys to use their favorite package and for you to not need locked media in the timeline. But again, I don't see this actually happening. There was a time when Motion could import AE projects, but they are so much more complex by design now.


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:12:11 pm

Re: people working on the same timeline (@Jeremy & @ Oliver)

In most of these conversations, I'm seeing a certain lack of precision in how this process is described. To be clear, are we talking about multiple editors/colorists/effects people touching the same -actual- timeline? Or are we talking about multiple people starting with the same instance of a timeline pulled from an open (but locked to all except the owner) bin and doing their thing, as is done with Avid on an ISIS? I keep seeing Avid referred to as allowing multiple people on one timeline, and that is most certainly NOT the case.

I think Jeremy called the multiple users on one timeline scenario a nightmare, and I would have to agree. Or am I missing something really big here?

Jeff M.


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Shawn Larkin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:25:49 pm

Yes, it's a nightmare.

Until it's not.

No one really knows what the deal is with collaboration in R11 until they use it.

I care more about the dit/editor/mgfx/compositor/colorist "one man band" functionality.

But if I can get individuals to work on sections with their specialty, that is even better for some projects.

So I do want Resolve to be all things to all people, but the reality is it is not going to be.

However, it may be the solution for me and all my needs. And I'll settle for that.


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:42:35 pm

Shawn, my question isn't about one-man-band vs collaboration. I come from network promo, which is about as segmented a workflow as you can find. I'm a big proponent of letting each specialty perform his particular magic. My issue is with describing this process as multiple users working on the same timeline at the same time.

No such system exists, as far as I know. Avid, the purported gold standard of collaborative workflow, doesn't do this. The descriptions of Resolve 11 being put out there seem to imply that it is possible. And I've seen this mythical process discussed several times on this board.

So, to those in the know, are we talking about multiple users on the same open timeline? Or multiple users working simultaneously within a given project, but on separate copies of a common timeline? And, if such a thing were possible, would it be a good idea?

Jeff M.


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Michael Hancock
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:52:28 pm

[Jeff Markgraf] "So, to those in the know, are we talking about multiple users on the same open timeline? Or multiple users working simultaneously within a given project, but on separate copies of a common timeline? And, if such a thing were possible, would it be a good idea?"

Watch the "What's New" video on the page below - particularly around 4:51 mark for working on the same timeline. It appears to actually be multiple people on the same timeline. It barely touches on it, but it's there.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 10, 2014 at 7:32:05 pm

[Jeff Markgraf] "I think Jeremy called the multiple users on one timeline scenario a nightmare,"

I prefer the term zany, but ... nightmare is cool!

:)


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 11, 2014 at 1:58:15 am

[Jeff Markgraf] "To be clear, are we talking about multiple editors/colorists/effects people touching the same -actual- timeline? Or are we talking about multiple people starting with the same instance of a timeline pulled from an open (but locked to all except the owner) bin and doing their thing, as is done with Avid on an ISIS? I keep seeing Avid referred to as allowing multiple people on one timeline, and that is most certainly NOT the case.

I think Jeremy called the multiple users on one timeline scenario a nightmare, and I would have to agree. Or am I missing something really big here?"


The way it's been explained is that you have a single editor. The editor is the focal point. From there you can have as many colorists as you want. You can also have multiple people ingesting clips at the same time. The editor is at the small end of the funnel.

As more footage is added, the editor can add it. As the colorists update the clips, they appear red on the editors timeline to indicate that they've been graded. It's up to the editor to decide whether to accept the grade or not.

I'm sure others can explain it better...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 11, 2014 at 6:17:35 pm

Interesting. Sounds like a slightly souped-up version of what Avid does now. Notification and accept/reject makes a lot of sense.

Back to dead horse beating... I've never understood why no one has come up with an equivalent to Avid's Unity/Isis workflow. Bin locking is such a simple and effective idea. Has Avid copyrighted this? Kinda like Avid's trim functionality. Is it patented? Is that why other editors don't do it? Or is there some other reason Avid has this functionality all to itself?

As a big fan of FCPX, I'd kill to see some of these features implemented.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:01:39 pm

[Jeff Markgraf] "Back to dead horse beating... I've never understood why no one has come up with an equivalent to Avid's Unity/Isis workflow. Bin locking is such a simple and effective idea."

I've been wondering that for a long time. Avid's project and bin structure has many advantages to how other NLEs handle projects that, like you, I'm surprised no one else has tried that approach.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 11, 2014 at 1:52:16 am

[Oliver Peters] "It will be interesting to see how sharing actually works. This requires an appropriate server set-up. "

FWIW, at the Supermeet they said you can use one of the machines you're working on to provide that function. No server required.

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 11, 2014 at 9:44:25 pm

I'm a bit confused. Several of you have said Resolve 11 includes editing features similar to the magnetic timeline behavior in FCP X. I don't see that and it's certainly not shown in the demos here:

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

All that I see is behavior that's exactly like FCP 7 and/or Media Composer. Am I missing something?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 12, 2014 at 1:52:28 am

[Oliver Peters] "Am I missing something?"

Rose Colored Glasses. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 16, 2014 at 4:35:48 pm

Looks like a FCP 7 and Avid MC timeline to me. There are no nested sequences, at least that I am aware of, but does allow for the use of compound clips. That is the only type of FCP X feature that I am aware of. This is going to be an exciting release!


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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 16, 2014 at 11:57:12 pm

I wonder how well it can do things like luma or chroma keys. I just graded a show with lots of layers in 10.1.4 and although I could view both layers I couldn't change the screen mode and see a basic luma key. As a finishing tool it will need pretty good luma and chroma keyers, perhaps as plugins?

And what about audio export? It still needs to get an audio timeline out to sound post. If they are smart they will have both OMF and AAF export of audio.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 17, 2014 at 12:01:51 am

[Michael Gissing] "And what about audio export? It still needs to get an audio timeline out to sound post. If they are smart they will have both OMF and AAF export of audio."

I don't know the specific answer, but audio is not strong. No audio plug-in support and mixer is very basic. No subgroups, just track and master faders.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 17, 2014 at 2:20:53 am

Oliver,
If they just put in VST plugin support then I am happy for finishing. I really need little more than multi track routing for use as a finishing tool.

For editing I can see that clip based levels and plugins would be good but they also need track based routing/ sub grouping and plugins. Maybe then some editors will understand the power of a track based system for audio.


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walter biscardi
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 17, 2014 at 1:30:53 am

[David Mathis] "Just curious as to who might jump over to Resolve 11 for editing as well. "

We all saw this coming last year. They released a basic editing tool kit to allow the colorist to make simple changes to an edit so it didn't have to go back to the Editor. But looking at the editing functionality in Resolve 10, it wasn't hard to see it advancing further to a fully functional NLE.

Resolve 11 and the addition of the former Product Manager for Apple's Final Cut Pro shows clear intent to move into the fully functional NLE market. It's a VERY small step from where Resolve 11 is to calling itself a full fledged NLE. I would suspect by IBC or certainly NAB next year they'll be showing Editing and Color at two different demonstration stations.

Is Resolve 11 all that? We don't know until it gets out into the hands of the many and we see if we can break it. But with Alexis van Hurkman being very much a part of the development and now we have the former FCP 7 product manager on board at Blackmagic, the intention of Grant Petty is very clear. A true non-linear editor that will not only be feature rich, but absolutely free.

I knew this was coming, I just expected there to be one more year before the tool got this far. I will definitely be testing this alongside our current Adobe workflow when we get it in the shop. For quick turnarounds, shorter projects, it can definitely handle that when it drops. The real question will be long format projects and whether they will ever start allowing third party plug-ins to work with the editor.

The realtime color grading while editing is simply incredible and a real world application that I would use tomorrow if we had it. Editor finishing up the edit, adding graphics, etc.. while I color grade simultaneously and update their timeline. If that works out of the gates, Resolve really will be our finishing editor pretty quickly.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Craft and Career Advice & Training from real Working Creative Professionals

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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 What is your plan?
on Apr 17, 2014 at 2:17:09 am

Same for me Walter. R10 is close. And they do already support OpenFX plugins. Watch the plugin developers jump on board ASAP. It needs to export OMF/AAF if it is going to satisfy editors who do broadcast/ feature workflows.

It needs a cracking keyer (Chroma/ luma) and a brilliant text tool with proper translation. Also it needs to handle stills and translate moves properly from other NLEs.


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