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4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....

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Charlie Austin
4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:29:18 pm

Anyone speak German? :-)

http://www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/19892-nab-2014#44225

resolution is a nice one, but he predicts higher contrasts/dynamics, better color-resolution and (much) higher fps (120-200fps) as the future-proof trends/needs for camera makers.


-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Mathis
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:36:21 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:43:34 pm

Things are getting interesting in 4K land. Strong competition this year.

No, but I know plenty of French! Just can't say it on TV or here. :-)


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Robert d'Alexis
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:39:55 pm

C'mon, go ahead, we'll pardon your French. :-)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 6:20:47 pm

[Robert d'Alexis] "C'mon, go ahead, we'll pardon your French. :-)"

Yes! Well played, sir.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 7:31:20 pm

jeremy, did you watch terence curren speaking about 4K at the prenab talk?

I found him pretty interesting? He made the point that the only people in a theatre that can perceive the difference between that and the current resolution would have to be sitting in around the front two rows, and in the home you would have to be sitting five feet away from a 65 inch screen.

what is the rationale for 4K again? to re-rack shots?

why is everyone buying the new gear, new storage, new throughput etc if the consumer can't really see it and none of the broadcasters are anywhere near touching it? And no one gets to mention house of cards on netflix. Why is everyone getting railroaded into 4K?
Curren seems to suggest that its a dark manufacturer cabal conspiracy to stop asian panel manufacturers from going under?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 10:09:43 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I found him pretty interesting? He made the point that the only people in a theatre that can perceive the difference between that and the current resolution would have to be sitting in around the front two rows, and in the home you would have to be sitting five feet away from a 65 inch screen.

what is the rationale for 4K again? to re-rack shots?"


I think Terence has excellent points. It is hard to argue with science. In my mind, 4k makes for better HD. 4k does not make for better 4k.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "why is everyone buying the new gear, new storage, new throughput etc if the consumer can't really see it and none of the broadcasters are anywhere near touching it? And no one gets to mention house of cards on netflix. Why is everyone getting railroaded into 4K?
Curren seems to suggest that its a dark manufacturer cabal conspiracy to stop asian panel manufacturers from going under?"


I don't know if everyone is buying for 4k. These days, if you are buying a new camera, it's hard to NOT buy 4k.

Kind of like, it's harder and harder to nbuy an HD TV without 3D capability.

I will say, House of Cards Season 2 looks absolutely incredible in HD. They are really showing what increased dynamic range in the Red cameras can do. Listening to a podcast with the DP, it was the DPs choice because he knew they could push the technology to do it. It should be a swan song for the Red faithful. I don't know if it would look any better in 4k.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 9, 2014 at 12:06:52 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Kind of like, it's harder and harder to buy an HD TV without 3D capability."

subtle joke there garchow. because if 3D tv had anymore knives in its back...


[Jeremy Garchow] "Listening to a podcast with the DP"

what was your podcast? In return I just got this one off aotg live with juan salvo - moron years late on my part but - luts.
who doesn't want to know about delicious luts.

http://coloristos.podomatic.com/

you are probably subscribed...

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:00:42 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "what was your podcast?"

After watching Season 2, I specifically went digging around for talks about the lighting in that season. It really left a mark, and I thought that it was a beautifully shot (and lit) show, and a step up from a really great looking Season 1. It appeared to me that the light was a whole lot of natural light, during daylight interiors. It turns out I was right, for once. It was supplemented, of course, but the supplements were mostly fill. There's a lot of really beautiful backlighting in Season 2 which would have been silhouettes on other cameras/mediums. Needless to say, I was really impressed and inspired. While perhaps it can be done on another camera, it seemed to be a great example of what an ultra modern digital camera can do. The dynamic range (more so the resolution) is such a powerful tool.

The podcast I found was embedded in a webpage somewhere, not something I regularly subscribe to. I will try and find it again.

Jeremy


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Steve Connor
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:07:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "There's a lot of really beautiful backlighting in Season 2 which would have been silhouettes on other cameras/mediums. Needless to say, I was really impressed and inspired. While perhaps it can be done on another camera, it seemed to be a great example of what an ultra modern digital camera can do. The dynamic range (more so the resolution) is such a powerful tool."

I like the way that they tried to keep the shots as static as possible, it made it feel and look very "natural"

Steve Connor

Class Bully


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 11, 2014 at 3:27:23 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "what was your podcast?"

Found it: http://gocreativeshow.com/house-of-cards-with-igor-martinovic-gcs025/


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Joseph Owens
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:31:19 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] " It should be a swan song for the Red faithful."

You do realize that a "swan song" is the allegorical *last act* of a dying entity.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:35:02 pm

yeah i'm an idiot


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Oliver Peters
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 11, 2014 at 8:41:17 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "yeah i'm an idiot"

OTOH, maybe it fits.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Ricardo Marty
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 15, 2014 at 4:07:01 pm

I quess the market is floded with hd and need to sell somthing cause everything is cheep these days. maybe they will find a way to rent all codecs a la adobe.

Ricardi Marty


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Michael Sanders
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:39:29 pm
Last Edited By Michael Sanders on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:41:00 pm

Basically they don't belive they can get the resolution and colour rendition from their or any other currently available sensord at 4K pixels that they would be happy with - thus they won't do it.

And FWIW those who have done the tests belive ARRIRAW upscaled to 4K is just as good. The possible exception is the Sony F65 RAW which is very close.

I haven't done the tests myself so can't comment to much but if I was offered an Alexa V F55 I'd probably take the Alexa.

There are heavy rumours Arri are working on a 65mm (yes 65mm) 4K camera but it won't be avaiable to buy.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 7:36:18 pm

[Michael Sanders] "And FWIW those who have done the tests belive ARRIRAW upscaled to 4K is just as good. The possible exception is the Sony F65 RAW which is very close."

Michael,

Link?

Franz.


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Michael Sanders
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 8:09:12 pm
Last Edited By Michael Sanders on Apr 8, 2014 at 8:21:24 pm

Franz,

No links as such but just an amalgamation of reading various materials and other forums, particularly the Cinematographers Mailing List.

Deakins, could have shot "Skyfall" on whatever he wanted but chose the Alexa Studio (which Arri rushed through production for) shooting in ArriRAW on Codex. There is an detailed article about this in a recent edition of American Cinematographer.

As to the 65mm Digital camera: http://nofilmschool.com/2014/03/arri-developing-6k-65mm-digital-cinema-came...

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Andre van Berlo
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 8:36:50 pm

actually I think he says that before we all jump on one aspect of the whole process (in this case resolution) we should investigate which of the aspects makes for the biggest improvement. Apparently more companies like the bbc are looking into this and are trying to find out what would yield best results.

I'm not sure but I also think he believes that 4K needs higher framerates.

One thing is certain, many things make up for a better image and i'm sure dynamic range and framerate would do a lot with image quality as well.

disclaimer: I understand some German but he has an accent from the south of Germany which is harder to understand


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Oliver Peters
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 8, 2014 at 10:35:21 pm

Last year at NAB, ARRI was showing a short film shot with anamorphic prime lenses in ARRIRAW with the 4x3 sensor.

This image was displayed on a 4K monitor. Subjectively it looked as good as every other 4K image at the show, though a bit softer (more "filmic"), which is characteristic of ARRI.

Remember that this image, when "unsqueezed", is effectively greater than 5K. 4K in all of these discussions is never expressed as actual resolution, but rather as frame dimensions. Not the same thing. That's why EPIC and the F65 use larger-than-4K sensors to achieve higher actual resolution at 4K. That's the dirty little secret of the debayering "cheat" that we've all come to accept.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Giberti
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 9, 2014 at 3:41:35 pm

I've been producing with BM cameras lately and I've yet to see anything from the 4k world that's better than the DR, color and IQ, including the new BMPC4k.


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Terence Curren
Re: 4K!! FOUR KAYE!!!! ... Meanwhile, at ARRI....
on Apr 10, 2014 at 1:31:00 am

Want to know what is cooler and more impressive than 4K?

Dolby was showing their new HDR monitor at NAB, it really pops! And that is a difference folks at home can see.

http://www.cnet.com/news/behind-the-scenes-with-dolbys-new-hdr-tv-tech/

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca


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