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Resolve 11 - Is it me...

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Jason Porthouse
Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 4:08:53 pm

...or is this FCPX with tracks? Having just watched all the videos I'm kinda failing to see what's not to like in this system - especially for the low entry price (free) and toolset available. I think they may have pulled the rug out from under everyones feet big time style - certainly for short form work.

Have a look at the videos here

Thoughts?

(and don't get me started on Ursa. All I can say is I want one.)

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.



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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 4:14:41 pm

It certainly looks like they are making the FCPX editor very comfortable.

sw

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Jason Porthouse
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 4:22:35 pm

But if you drill into a lot of the features here Scott, they've basically covered all the bases - I'm not seeing a while lot that X can do that this can't, mag timeline excluded - and multi cam by the look of it. And metadata export to ALE files could be a real cincher for many people - if you can log, tag and 'favourite' in Resolve and export to Avid for offline that will seriously sway some people, as it can work in conjunction with Avid (which many post houses still have and clients insist on) rather than as an alternative. I was asking on one of the X forums the other day about getting metadata from X into Avid - I've an edit coming up where the director likes working in X but the production company won't hear of it. So Avid it is - but that means conventional logging and less flexibility for him. Metadata rich ALEs from this to a 'known safe' platform could really shake the market up, especially if people eventually realise that they needn't go elsewhere for their finishing.

I think this is very exciting. Post has never had it so good...

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.



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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 4:43:57 pm

I am just happy to be more compatible with my colorist who is a Resolve guy. Having played with Resolve 10, it's very basic. BMD might be putting together just enough of an editor for mastering. Yeah, it's a great time to be in this business...

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Warren Eig
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 5:09:29 pm

If this only supported my Kona hardware ...

Warren Eig
O 310-470-0905


email: warren@babyboompictures.com
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For Camera Accessories
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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 5:50:14 pm

Haha, Apple will have to start another court case a la Samsung.

If it really works, this looks like the long-lamented FCP 8 or FCP 9, a hybrid with FCPX features!

Doug D


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Bobby Mosca
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 6:08:07 pm

Well, DANGIT!!


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 6:20:40 pm

Tim, change the forum title! "Apple FCPX or Resolve - The Debate!"

Doug D


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 6:47:02 pm

I have a feeling some of you are missing the forest for the trees...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:09:16 pm

Haha, hey Charlie. We're not jumping off the X ship just yet! But you gotta admit they've made some interface choices that ape X's "modern NLE" look while retaining track-based editing.

Doug D


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:14:53 pm

yes this resolves a lot.

ricardo marty


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:15:12 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:17:18 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "Haha, hey Charlie. We're not jumping off the X ship just yet! But you gotta admit they've made some interface choices that ape X's "modern NLE" look while retaining track-based editing.
"


:-) Oh, didn't expect anyone to jump. lol

To me, it looks less like BM stealing stuff from X, and more like Resolve becoming a perfect companion. If the free version can spit out an ALE, or EDL or whatever, and fcpxml gets to a point where pretty much everything about a project gets translated, tags, fx, basic color etc, well... it sounds pretty promising to me. But what do I know... ;-) I just see things like this, from the 'personal' (lol) email Grant sent to me this AM.

There are new collaborative workflow tools in DaVinci Resolve 11 which allows an editor and multiple colorists to work on different workstations, sharing the same timeline and working in tandem as they complete shots. Another advantage of the enhanced editing features is the better round trip collaboration with Apple Final Cut Pro X™.


-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:20:30 pm

Indeed, Charlie that is the serious reaction, as opposed to all the joking.

If you are in the process of "round-tripping" and find that you can fuss and tweak in Resolve, grade, go back to X when you're ready ... it just increases the comfort level as Scott mentions.

Doug D


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:22:55 pm

Interesting if you want to 'go back' to tracks....the new folks using X never knew tracks and would have no reason to "go back".

I just find it interesting the prominent mentions X gets in the articles.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Charlie Austin
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:27:38 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "the new folks using X never knew tracks and would have no reason to "go back"."

Some not so new folks using X know tracks quite well, and also don't want to "go back" :-)


[Scott Witthaus] "I just find it interesting the prominent mentions X gets in the articles."

It's the only NLE mentioned in the email blast.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Mathis
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 9:00:08 pm
Last Edited By David Mathis on Apr 7, 2014 at 9:23:52 pm

[Charlie Austin] "[Scott Witthaus] "the new folks using X never knew tracks and would have no reason to "go back"."

Some not so new folks using X know tracks quite well, and also don't want to "go back" :-)


[Scott Witthaus] "I just find it interesting the prominent mentions X gets in the articles."

It's the only NLE mentioned in the email blast."


Oh boy, tracks! I actually watched one of their videos, and it seems to have better trim tools. I hope Red Giant will announce support. Still, there are a few things that X does pretty darn well. It is pro software not a toy ! My two cents, whatever it is worth.

Why get out the butter when there is no bread on the table?

* Edit *
I would probably do most of the editing in Resolve but ship that over to FCP X for additional finishing. Motion has the tools to build a nice looking lower third for use in X where I would add titles, lower thirds and transitions. That is, assuming I can export an XML out of Resolve to bring into X that works correctly. I think the three tools combined will make for a killer system on a small budget.

Looking for a real alternative to Photoshop and Illustrator when I want to do some more classic looking title sequences. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated.

I am now waiting for Red Giant to take Universe from beta to full power. Will start out monthly and go to lifetime membership. Post has changed, again and for the better!


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Bret Williams
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:20:47 am

[David Mathis] "I would probably do most of the editing in Resolve but ship that over to FCP X for additional finishing"

This should go on Conan's list of things that have never been said before.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 7:34:35 pm

Right. If you have come out of Avid, PPro of FCP Legacy, you may have a pang of nostalgia when you see the "track mapping" from Browser to Timeline, and some of the sliding and trimming.

But if you have "grown up in X" you already execute those techniques using mag timeline, gaps, secondary story lines, moving clip anchors and all the rest of it.

Doug D


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 9:45:04 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "But if you have "grown up in X" "

that's got to be open to question now tho. If apple have managed to sell X to a number that equates to around half of their installed prior FCP base, after three years, then you'd wonder where exactly this new generation much broader spread of X editors is coming from. Basically apple don't seem to have effected a much broader uptake. there is no grand new video literacy taking place with X.

to quote tim wilson there below:

The one part I still stand by is that this is a ridiculously low number. I guess they have to say SOMETHING, I'd be embarrassed to have this be the flag I was trying to fly under.... (although he qualified that to soothe ruffled feathers a bit but still)

and then again:

But "only" 1 million downloads in 3 years says to me that X hasn't yet caused the massive market shift away from pro users that many had feared. I think the Venn diagram overlap of "X users" and "Hardcore Pro users" out that 1 million is pretty dang big.

you'd have to agree - basically that meme, that has been perpetuated on here for god knows how long, that X was reaching out and behind recalcitrant current pros to build an entirely new broader base for editing, a generation that would "grow up using X" as you say there, is kind of shot.

that might also explain apple jettisoning the imovie import new project buttons, and all the PR push going directly back into high end workflows.

In a way apple are having to fight on exactly the same turf that they said they were sick of in 2007.

I still remember this post from a guy who had worked on FCP for a half decade, explaining their move with X:

http://isachin.com/2011/06/30/why-apple-built-final-cut-pro-x/

choice quotes:

"Apple doesn't care about the pro space"

"The pro market is too small for Apple to care about it. Instead of trying to get hundreds or even thousands of video professionals to buy new Macs, they can nail the pro-sumer market and sell to hobbyists like me."

"I know how to use Final Cut Pro because I worked on it for 6 years, but for most people it's just too complex."

"things changed in 2006 and 2007. Serious competitors to Final Cut Pro came from Adobe, Pinnacle, Sony, and others. People were choosing their hardware and software based on format support, or specific features they needed. That's boring. Apple doesn't play that game."

You would nearly spit out your tea laughing at those quotes considering where apple have ended up with X in terms of numbers and "format support".

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Steve Connor
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 9:57:20 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] ""Apple doesn't care about the pro space"

"The pro market is too small for Apple to care about it. Instead of trying to get hundreds or even thousands of video professionals to buy new Macs, they can nail the pro-sumer market and sell to hobbyists like me."

"I know how to use Final Cut Pro because I worked on it for 6 years, but for most people it's just too complex."

"things changed in 2006 and 2007. Serious competitors to Final Cut Pro came from Adobe, Pinnacle, Sony, and others. People were choosing their hardware and software based on format support, or specific features they needed. That's boring. Apple doesn't play that game."
"


Well that proves it, FCPX is clearly aimed at the Prosumers because that bloke said so.

Steve Connor

Class Bully


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 10:01:36 pm

[Steve Connor] "Well that proves it, FCPX is clearly aimed at the Prosumers because that bloke said so."

shhh...don't tell Black Magic that. They would have to re-do all those e-mails and web pages!

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Steve Connor
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 10:04:57 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "shhh...don't tell Black Magic that. They would have to re-do all those e-mails and web pages!"

Don't worry BMD are targeting the same RED-toting Soccer Moms that Apple are, they can see the Prosumer revolution coming too

Steve Connor

Class Bully


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 10:26:59 pm
Last Edited By Aindreas Gallagher on Apr 7, 2014 at 11:20:20 pm

[Steve Connor] "Well that proves it, FCPX is clearly aimed at the Prosumers because that bloke said so.
"


well yes and no steve, they thought they could have their cake and eat it. I mean look at the adoption numbers - hilariously, whatever they thought they were going to achieve at the outset (and come on he was right there for 6 years. [*edit* - to be totally clear here: he was on the FCP software development team for over half a decade] - so seriously, do re-read that post)

they are nevertheless right back at square one, tending to our peculiar needs like a toe massage for a warty editor's foot no?







honestly when I dug up those quotes I did seriously get a giggle out of it. I mean listen to that:

"But things changed in 2006 and 2007. People were choosing their hardware and software based on format support, or specific features they needed. That's boring. Apple doesn't play that game. FCP X lets Apple move beyond the pro space, and sell to a much larger group looking for better tools."

he was right there steve.

Apple bloody well did architect FCPX for a much broader base. and well, just, no in the end really. they've got around half their previous install base.

you wouldn't say the entire five year exercise was total hubris and a titanic climb down resulting in a year spent painfully resurrecting the original project library container, but then again you wouldn't exactly not say that either.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 12:10:27 am

[Steve Connor] "... because that bloke said so."


Steve,

I'd agree we're better here at sorting out intentions and effects than designers.

I did find this bit, though, which is revealing (in a sort of obvious way):

"I was there for six years, and the whole time I was there I was working on Final Cut Pro. We started out as the darlings of Apple. Over the course of six years, I watched the stock go up 20x, but it wasn't because of Final Cut Pro. So, I was able to sit back and watch the rise of the iPod and iPhone."

http://mashable.com/2011/08/23/posterous-sachin-agarwal-interview/

Franz.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 10:00:50 pm

I would agree that the X has not proven to be the new paradigm; who could say that is has, in view of the numbers, as you point out. But "having grown up in X" doesn't imply anything about numbers of users. It's simply to say that, if you've never used tracks, you won't know what you're missing in X. And supporters of X, like me for my uses, feel that we are not missing much.

That has been my point about teaching to high school kids. They don't seem to NEED a traditional NLE at their level. The argument has been at the pro level, whether you inevitably hit a functionality wall in X and must go to a track-based NLE.

I think many users on this forum have long since testified that it works in many situations, and the Debate now is not so much "FCPX or Not" -- but more like "FCPX, When & Where?"

A lot of posting that goes on now is about that wall, and discussions on whether there is an acceptable workaround for a particular issue, or whether that issue is the road sign that says "Dead End" and it's time to take another route.

Doug D


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 7, 2014 at 11:52:54 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "A lot of posting that goes on now is about that wall, "

super true, and I'm beyond unqualified to speak to it. I just like the notion of apple dragging its tail back into the smelly editors room.
I personally deep down thought they had a serious excess of the FCP7 install base. Quite a lot of people here did, as quoted.
Apple issued, in retrospect, as has been pointed out, some funny statements about numbers over the last few years. now we've got the number. it's half the previous install base.

they don't seem to have the kind of audience they thought they would have setting out on this, for the software they chose to build for that base.
If the ultimate workplace for paid positions remains largely unchanged and tracked, then the wholly different methodology developed for an entirely broader and transformatively different target is...

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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tony west
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 2:59:58 am

These are good points, Douglas.


I have to wonder, given the flat out bashing and trashing that Apple took from the rollout, you could look at the numbers and say not bad.

It was a PR rollout disaster, so are those good numbers with such a stumble out of the blocks?


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Bret Williams
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:27:33 am

And how does one apply a transition with a start on edit point alignment in X? How does one keyframe with easing and bezier curves in X? How does one apply a audio cross fade? All basic stuff that Resolve is focusing on in their videos that X STILL hasn't put back in. These guys at BMD are talking directly to us. The legacy users that have switched to X or the users that are dabbling with Adobe. The only thing it's missing is motion integration and a good multi cam.

My prediction. Next year - they add multi cam and a full 3D motion-like animation system, except it'll be node based like smoke.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:31:50 am

[Bret Williams] " The only thing it's missing is motion integration and a good multi cam."

Bret,

I'd wait to make a full assessment.

Audio, for example, looks pretty basic in the videos that are available.


Franz.


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Bret Williams
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:33:17 am

Agreed. But it's not exactly X's strong suit either. Wonder if resolve has OMF export? :)


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Bret Williams
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:41:03 am

I don't know about audio fx, but in reading their blurb about audio, it sounds pretty decent.

"Audio Editing and Mixing
No matter if your audio files are Mono, Stereo, 5.1 or more, DaVinci Resolve lets you quickly mix your audio with full level control and fade handles for each clip directly in the timeline. You get VU meters with peak and limit indicators for monitoring playback and you can even mute and solo channels while editing. Using the built in mixer you can mix multi track audio sources, adjust levels, pan and set output channels for either clips or entire tracks. You can also adjust the audio level of individual audio tracks directly in the timeline."


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 4:13:38 am

[Bret Williams] " ... in reading their blurb about audio, it sounds pretty decent."

Bret,

It might be.

How does it multiple source channels on clips? Do I have versatile control of mutes and levels on individual channels?

Stereo, mono, multi-channel tracks?

Separate master controls? Does it allow grouping or any sort of routing? What kind of metering?

How does it handle audio plug-ins? Can I apply them to clips and/or tracks? Third party?

Support for control surfaces?

Will it take any audio interface? Can it deal with sync offsets if that's an issue on playback?

What's the quality of speed effects on audio?

It's hard to say without actually using it in workflow. And this is just one aspect of the NLE.

Franz.


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Don Walker
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:30:02 am

One thing that hasn't been discussed yet, is that BMD is notorious for delivering half finished products, at least on the hardware side of things. They seen to be a little more attentive with Resolve. However, I think it would be unwise to jump in with both feet, with a product from a company that loves to promise big things, and then is real slow delivering on those promises.

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 11:36:16 am

Basic editing and a finishing timeline is exactly what I am looking for.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 1:15:28 pm

There are many more 'mature' products to provide that available now. While interesting, Resolve 11 is brand new and untested. X or Premiere might be better options for you at this point.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Michael Gissing
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 10:10:35 pm

I switched from 7 to Premiere and from Color to da Vinci a while back. The more I look at Resolve 11 the more I like being able to stay in the grade program rather than jumping in and out during finishing.

One biggy will be stills with moves. I want to see how well they translate. Also comparing their stabilizer with warp stabilize in PR/ Ae.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 3:01:10 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Basic editing and a finishing timeline is exactly what I am looking for.
"


+1

I wish, as I wished with Color, that Resolve could be a "plugin".

Like Baselight and now SpeedGrade.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Resolve 11 - Is it me...
on Apr 8, 2014 at 5:00:42 pm

[Bret Williams] "My prediction. Next year - they add multi cam and a full 3D motion-like animation system, except it'll be node based like smoke."

Node based applications aren't typically very good at animation... that's why the most poplar animation programs are layer based. Maybe Resolve will become the all-in-one application that some want it to be, but not anytime soon. My prediction is that Resolve will become a solid finishing tool that might (more or less) take the wind out of Autodesk's sails, but probably not Adobe's... not unless Blackmagic buys Corel and Hitfilm and drastically re-tools those applications for more integrated workflows... BM would also need an answer to the AE/C4D integration story... all of that would take a lot of time.

Shawn



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