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With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!

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samir kassab
With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 27, 2011 at 11:10:53 pm

Every time I need to put some clips aside on the timeline,or just try to make a small gap to create a space to try out cuts,the magnetic time line keeps pulling things back together!if need to have my timeline "under control" i have to use the position tool !

Anyway,the general feeling I've got after 1 week of using FCPX,that it loves to work in a linear style(hence "append to the end tool ).I find it kinda of surreal that the allegedly most advanced NLE wants u to work in a linear style!


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:20:41 am

yep yep yep. That drives me pretty much out of my gourd too. but sure I'm not here to talk - I'm here to sell you a ticket to a petition :)

pass it along to your mates!


http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/27/600-filmmakers-sign-complaint-about-...

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?finalcut

http://bit.ly/jIUH2N


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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samir kassab
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:40:05 am

Did that mate! I'm 1283


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:47:45 am

good stuff, sure lets just pray it gets picked up by a few more news outlets. the numbers are getting respectable. maybe then we'll actually get straight dice out of cupertino.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:22:29 am

Use the Position tool (P) to move clips to create a gap.
If you try to use the Selection tool (A) it will keep the clips connected.
Also Option W can insert a gap.
Also if you use Shift Delete when removing a clip you'll have a gap instead of rippling.

I wish people wouldn't pass judgment until they really went through the program in detail. It's very different than FCP7 It's quite powerful despite its missing features, once you learn it.

Because gaps are like transparent slugs, you can actually Connect clips to them.
Also you can select a bunch of Connected clips and create a Secondary Storyline which can be edited like a V2 track in which the gaps are transparent so that the Primary Storyline (V1) is visible at those points. Use the V command to disable clips as needed as well. You can actually use the Secondary Storyline to create an alternate cut if needed.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:38:26 am

wait - we have V2? - I'm kidding I'm kidding - God knows I'm the self designated histrionics verbal hyperbole on this thing - but honestly - when you say which 'can be edited like a V2' do you not at all miss.... functioning numbered tracks that you can solo or disable? do you not miss V2 and its numerical brethren? why are we dealing with this? I know - this is the millionth time I've put up sentences like these - but am I wrong in thinking there was an essential intellectual rigour to the presentation of FCP7? for all the things that I might need it to do in an untold number of scenarios? and that that powerful professional flexibility is gone?


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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samir kassab
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 12:51:54 am

I agree it's a powerful tool,and it has lot of potentials! But to use workarounds all the time to mimic the way we used to work is just annoying!Some things just I work as they are!but if the X grew up to be a professional app,adjusting to the interface won't be a problem! I sure hope we are not wasting time learning it!apple has to make it worth the trouble!

Thanks for the " attaching clips to the gaps" tip!


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Matt Callac
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 1:20:59 am

[samir kassab] "But to use workarounds all the time to mimic the way we used to work is just annoying"

yeah, i'm trying not to do that. Trying to get your system to work like FCP 7 seems like a sort of crutch. I'm sure if you want to get really fast at editing, you can't try the old methods, you have to adopt the new ways of doing things.

-mattyc


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Craig Seeman
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 1:52:31 am

[Matt Callac] "Trying to get your system to work like FCP 7 seems like a sort of crutch."

I agree. There's no need to use workarounds if you really understand how FCPX works. Connected clips are great. Being able to use Secondary Storyline is good for certain situations. I see no need to live in a track based editing world. If I can have cutaways, titles, FX, alternate shots with Connected clips it's a lot cleaner workflow for me. There's so much I like about FCPX I'd rather bank on Apple adding the missing features than look backwards or sideways.



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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 2:17:02 am

Craig:

I layer a lot, sometimes having 3, 4 or even half a dozen video tracks that keyframe in opacity. Think of the opening sequence in "Apocalypse Now" where you have designed layers of jungle, multiple groups of helicopters, whirling blades, napalm, then interiors with various details, all maintained as independent shots and filtered, layered.

Is there a logical way to do that kind of thing with Compound Clips and Secondary Stories, etc? Am I better off sending it to Motion where the layer concept still thrives?

Ditto with titles. Sometimes, to imitate the style of Colonial era broadsheets with their wildly varying typefaces and sizes, I will need 6-8 layers for a title, with various layers for a larger capital letter, for a word in italics, and of course the ability to fade on pieces line by line or word by word. Again, do you know or surmise that title tool via Motion the way to go in FCPX?

Doug D


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Chris Kenny
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 2:36:02 am

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "Is there a logical way to do that kind of thing with Compound Clips and Secondary Stories, etc? Am I better off sending it to Motion where the layer concept still thrives?"

You can still layer as deeply as you want with connected clips. As an added bonus, if you've got, say, six title layers that conceptually make up a single clip, you can collapse them into a compound clip to eliminate visual clutter on your timeline.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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John Godwin
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 2:57:55 am

On a related note, I just managed to make a storyline / timeline with an animated background, a layer to appear behind the talent on the background, and the top layer is the talent on greenscreen. The key, btw, dropped right in and made a perfect key, as far as I can tell.

I'm not sure if I constructed this in the easiest or best way. I started with a middle layer, a video shot, then added the greenscreen layer over that, and evidently made a compound clip, which I could then place over the animated background. It all works and I can go in and do things (add titles, some effects and color correction - this is all for experimentation, not yet an actual piece) but in FCP 7 I'd start with the top layer, the greenscreen shot, and then add below it. Anyone have suggestions on how to best build something like this?

As an aside, I'm testing this on a MacBook Pro 2.6 core 2 duo with 4 gb of ram, and everything works, but it is stressing the machine and the fans are working like I've never heard them work. But it's all working, no crashes.

Best,
John


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Eddie McFly
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jul 13, 2011 at 8:45:33 pm

you can add the clip with the talent in the primary storyline, and drag to connect the background video underneath it. when you drag, it is possible to connect video clips below the primary, and audio clips above


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 3:15:18 am

Thanks Chris. That's the kind of thing of functionality that originally appealed to me in the Supermeet Demo, and the visual clutter issue you mention is important when I teach my video class to high school students. The KISS rule "keep it simple stupid" really applies there. If you throw too many layers, options, waveforms, keyframes and such at them too quickly, it can become soup. Which is frustrating to them because the kids are taking other art courses like photography and drawing, painting etc. The idea of a heads-up display of info superimposed over all the visual work they are doing can be depressing to some; it's so distracting from the visceral FEEL of the visual arts.

Doug D


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Greg Burke
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 2:29:34 am

I agree that the magnetic timeline is a "neat" Idea..but in Steve Jobs own words. "...it's 10% better, 50% worse" heheh see what i did there.

I wear many hats.
http://www.gregburkepost.com


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Hans Dampf
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 11:15:24 am

I may be wrong, but isn't the "splice in" mode in AVID almost the same like the "magnetic timeline" in FCPX?


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Craig Seeman
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:15:45 pm

I was an Avid editor for 10 years although I've gone 10 years without really using it since but there are actually a number of things that are more Avid like than FCP7 was.

The Skimmer plays more than 1 frame of audio which was something that Avid did (and FCP7 did not) although I remember Avid allowing you to change the duration in preferences and it was done with the playhead.

I vaguely remember something like that black slug inserted also being Avid like. (again I'm remember back to about 2001 so things may have changed).

Yes the magnetic time line vs using the Position command (which inserts black slug when you move something) reminds me of Avid's edit modes a bit.

There's a few other things that seem more Avid like as well.



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Reed Black
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 12:24:27 am

"I wish people wouldn't pass judgment until they really went through the program in detail. It's very different than FCP7 It's quite powerful despite its missing features, once you learn it."

I totally agree. Surprisingly, I was able to pick up the new timeline very, very fast. I was a bit confused why people were having problems with the magnetic timeline. I personally love it. But it can simply be turned off. So why all the complaints about it?

This is very, very easy to use, fast and smooth. It has all my main tools; JKL - I-in/O-out, blade tool, match source command (which can be mapped) and my favorite is the select tool. FCP7 - the "T" button. In this its a bit different and took a bit getting used to but I like it a lot. It really is a well thought out and very, very powerfully new approach to editing. The viewer (source window) I was bit annoyed by at first but after figuring out how to adjust it to my liking, I think its a very cleaver design. Look - we all know about FCPX's short comings and there are quite a few but overall as far as look and feel, features ease of use, I think its extremely powerful. And I do strongly believe Apple will add back all the features we miss. I see no benefit not to. They can have an app that's suits both the Pro's and prosumers.

Just my take.



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David Lawrence
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 1:03:54 am

The magnetic timeline is the biggest UI FAIL I've ever encountered.

Want to try something fun? Drop a clip on the timeline. Use the Position tool to move it - let's say 10 seconds on the timeline. Because maybe, just maybe, you want 10 seconds of black at the head of your show. Done that? Good. Now let's say you want to put a 1-second fade-up from black at the head of your clip. Click on the head of the clip and type command-T on the keyboard. Watch what happens. Can anyone explain WTF the thinking is here? Totally wrong behavior. Total UI FAIL.

I swear, the more things I try FCPX the more it pisses me off.



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Matt Callac
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 3:07:12 pm

[David Lawrence] " The magnetic timeline is the biggest UI FAIL I've ever encountered.

Want to try something fun? Drop a clip on the timeline. Use the Position tool to move it - let's say 10 seconds on the timeline. Because maybe, just maybe, you want 10 seconds of black at the head of your show. Done that? Good. Now let's say you want to put a 1-second fade-up from black at the head of your clip. Click on the head of the clip and type command-T on the keyboard. Watch what happens. Can anyone explain WTF the thinking is here? Totally wrong behavior. Total UI FAIL.

I swear, the more things I try FCPX the more it pisses me off."


Not a UI fail.. a U fail/Default preference fail. Go into the preferences under editing and select apply transitions using "available media" rather than "full overlap". This will keep transitions from rippling.

This just illustrates a point that people who've already decided to hate FCPX totally give up once they've hit a wall and something doesn't work like "it should". Then they just claim that it doesn't work, rather than trying to figure it out.

-mattyc


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David Lawrence
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 4:48:29 pm

@mattyc -

I just went into editing preferences and changed the apply transitions setting from "full overlap" to "available media" as you suggested. It makes *no* difference whatsoever. It sounds like you've figured it out so please tell me what I'm doing wrong here because I can't make it work.



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Matt Callac
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 7:25:07 pm

[David Lawrence] "

I just went into editing preferences and changed the apply transitions setting from "full overlap" to "available media" as you suggested. It makes *no* difference whatsoever. It sounds like you've figured it out so please tell me what I'm doing wrong here because I can't make it work."


It's still rippling your timeline?

-mattyc


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David Lawrence
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 28, 2011 at 8:40:42 pm

It really is!

BTW, I don't intend to be a hater. I want to love this thing. But I've been working with NLEs since their invention and I'm really appalled by some of the UI decisions I'm seeing. Here's a functional spec I co-authored in 1987 to give you an idea of my perspective and background:

http://www.propaganda.com/sfsu/econo.html

I'm all ears. If I'm missing something please point me in the right direction.



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Reed Black
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 12:33:47 am

Dude, I did this in like 10 seconds. LITERALLY!

1. Add clip to timeline.
2. Select clip.
3. I typed +10:00 and hit enter. Moved my entire clip ten seconds ahead. (my usual way of moving stuff in FCP7).
4. Clicked the top of the clip, like you mentioned and hit apple T and guess what, I got a nice fade from black.

I apologize if I missed something in your post but this was just like working in the old FCP7. I didn't even change the preferences.



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David Lawrence
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:28:25 am

@Reed Black,

Where does your fade begin on the timeline? Mine ripples back 50% the fade length. That is *not* what I want. I want 10-seconds of black and then fade up from black to my clip. In FCP 7, this is the default behavior. And I can easily choose transition alignment - begin on edit, center on edit, end on edit - from a context menu drop-down item. I use this stuff all the time. Please explain how to do this in FCPX.

Same with the magnetic timeline. If it's simple to turn off, how do you do this?

Thanks!



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Reed Black
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 1:52:34 am

Okay, I see what you mean now. Just do this then...

1. Add your transition 1st. BEFORE you add the black space.
2. THEN add 10 seconds of black by selecting the clip and pressing + (whatever seconds you decide.) And the clip should fade up from the START point of the transition like in FCP7.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, there's a ton of cool new features but some really dumb ones and that's one of them. I also, didn't like that to add a transition to a 2nd track you have to press cmd G (storyline - what is storyline btw and what is its function?) before adding the transition. Also, when you do add the transition, it defaults to the CENTER of the dissolve not at the top. Annoying. Sigh... apple, sheesh, I really do like what they did with a lot of the features but some things just simply are completely unnecessary. Changing the names of things, adding 2 or 3 steps where before it was 1 step, etc. I'm still pulling for this program to be what it needs to be but as stated before... Apple needs to speak up, like now.



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David Lawrence
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 4:48:52 am

[Reed Black] "1. Add your transition 1st. BEFORE you add the black space."

yes, but this is the simplest possible example. On a complex timeline it may not be possible. The bottom line is that the behavior is unpredictable and completely unintuitive.

Another example: click the head of the clip and use the context menu to select "add transition" instead of command-T. Result? Fades at the head and tail of the clip!

Re: Positioning tool - Yes, you can press P and place clips anywhere, but it's not changing the ripple-only nature of the timeline. It's placing transparent slugs where ever a gap appears. These slugs are objects on the timeline and have to be managed. I honestly don't see how this makes my work any easier.

These aren't minor quirks. To me, they're huge usability gaffes and there are a ton of them throughout the program. It's really sloppy, amateurish design. Coming from a world class UI leader like Apple, it's baffling how X got out the door. It feels like they never did any basic usability testing with actual users!

This is why so many of us are saying X is unusable for our work.



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Reed Black
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:12:12 pm

@ DAVID - "This is why so many of us are saying X is unusable for our work."

I hear you but I do believe this will change in time. When I sat down to use it, I approached it this way;

Does it still retain the basic functionality that I'm used to actually work?
Does it still use JKL? Yes.
Does it still use I-in & O-out? Yes.
Is there still a match source function? Yes. Is it mappable? Yes.
And is there still a blade tool? Yes.

These are my basic foundational editorial tools to actually create and manipulate content. Everything else is a plus and I can always build on top of these functions. This how I approach all NLE's and software in general. As mentioned earlier there is some funkiness about it that will be worked out in time. In the interim, I'll use FCP7 for my pro-work and FCPX to practice, learn, and get familiar with this new approach to editing.

Side note: I watched LAFCPUG video's last night with Larry Jordan. Dated JUNE 15 (before the release). And he said something that made me feel a lot better about all this. And that APPLE wouldn't have sent out over 20 top level people for the release of FCPX at a PROFESSIONAL event such as PRO-MEET (I think that's the name) if they didn't care about it or us the pros. He also was very, very clear that having been invited to cupertino - that Apple listens. They don't answer but they listen. He clearly warned that this is NOT READY FOR PRIMETIME. He stated this several times, and he said Apple knows this. I've read his recent write up and yes he agrees there are some very, very good things and some very very bad things but like him, I still have faith that Apple will straighten FCPX out. And all will be well again. I BELIEVE!



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Craig Seeman
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:50:13 pm

I also believe (hallelujah?).

Apple is talking to people. They are listening. The FAQ just posted is the start of a response. I don't doubt their crew at the SuperMeet was there not only to observe the response but to get informal feedback.

As someone who works with developers, I have to keep telling people that development is an ONGOING thing. It may not even be linear. While something goes out the door there's already work in progress for fixes, improvements, new features.

No company spends the time and resources to come out with something like FCPX to abandon a market segment. They hit the widest target first. The narrower (higher end professional market) isn't necessarily taking a back set, those features may be taking longer to develop. The APIs to open features to third party support has to be very thorough or changes will break that support down the road.



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Reed Black
Re: With FCPX magnetic timeline,the non-linear is linear again!
on Jun 29, 2011 at 2:03:14 am

To turn off magnetic timeline simply press "p". The function is located under the same menu as "select (A)" tool.


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