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COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

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Trevor Asquerthian
Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 9:25:57 pm

You don't usually get execs dishing the dirt quite so explicitly...

"the decision was taken to move from Final Cut Pro once Apple had decided ... they were going to move away from... the professional platform. "

"...in the end we’ve selected Adobe Premiere."

(source)

Big win for Adobe, especially in terms of concentrated R&D. Big loss for Avid, assuming there is no catastrophic failure. (Apple, I'm sure, don't care).



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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 10:39:20 pm

[Trevor Asquerthian] "Apple, I'm sure, don't care"

Why would they? It's not real football after all... :runs away:

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 11:18:05 pm

As far as I get it, large local parties are settling for premiere.
It is an open question how long everyone keeps talking about X. And what X ever was.







http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 11:38:56 pm

To what is Trevor commenting on? Where is that quote from?

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 11:55:07 pm

Click on "source" is Trevor's post.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 11:56:56 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "To what is Trevor commenting on? Where is that quote from?"

It's in the "Managing the IBC workflow" section:

http://svgeurope.org/blog/headlines/svges-football-production-summit-world-...

"I mentioned the 36 HBS edit suites: the decision was taken to move from Final Cut Pro once Apple had decided (for reasons that have yet to be explained to me) that they were going to move away from, let’s say, the professional platform. We started working with two or three different suppliers and in the end we’ve selected Adobe Premiere. And we’ve been very pleased with the work we’ve managed to do with them to come up with a system that allows us to work very quickly on-site with those who may not have worked with Adobe Premiere before. We believe they will be able to arrive at the IBC and seamlessly start work."

Shawn



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 12:44:06 am

I know nutin.

it feels it is being settled this year?

afaik sky are below the line ppro, above the line avid, beeb ww are quite seriously ppro going forward. possibly to anywhere?
also not a single commercial house of any scale in london is pursuing X.

Realistically, in terms of the timeline operation, X remains probably total bullshit as an editing system.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 1:49:55 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Realistically, in terms of the timeline operation, X remains probably total bullshit as an editing system."

I imagine there are probably quite a few people who would disagree with you on that. Me for one. But I'm just cutting advertising for movies, so what do I know...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 2:07:48 am

[Charlie Austin] "But I'm just cutting advertising for movies, so what do I know...
"


well sure, my last promo for international markets got passed by the top gear production team.
but when we start trying that kind of line, who really actually knows anything charles.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 2:54:39 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but when we start trying that kind of line, who really actually knows anything charles."

That's my point. :-) If some major network or something decides to start cutting on Vegas does it really mean anything? Nope.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Patrice Freymond
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 6:40:19 am

In 2002 the whole HBS setting was Avid, from laptops for the 14 eng teams to Symphonys at the IBC.

A few years later for the Asian Games in Doha, an operation just under the summer olympics in size, it was all tapeless EVS with Clean Edit (and a very early version at that) plus one tape based room with an old Sony 2000 for backup.

This time they are going with Premiere. Why not? But it does not mean they will stay with it the next time, or the one after that...

Patrice Freymond

Editor  Certified Trainer FCP7/X
Post Consultant

Always learning...


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Marcus Moore
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 1:42:34 pm

That's it exactly. None of these decisions are permanent or irreversible. People moved from AVID to FCP. People move from FCP to AVID or PP. In a couple years who knows which way the wind will blow.

If the way things are are the way thing will always be, then FCP Legacy would never have gained marketshare, and Premier would still the crap product it was 5 years ago.

Things change.


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Bret Williams
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 1:57:36 am

I don't know of a single person that cares what's going on in London but I'm guessing you live there so maybe you do. What is Sky and beeb ww?


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 2:04:03 am

i think the latter part is like pbs?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bret Williams
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 2:14:45 am

And Sky is news, like Fox News or CNN? I don't think anyone cares what they're using over here either. I do happen to know CNN has gone Adobe. But doesn't mean much to me. Either app takes a few weeks in the trenches to get up to speed. Until Premiere becomes the defacto standard and FCP X disappears, I think I'll save my money. I'm on the CC right now for the other apps, but I've found a few replacements for PS and AI. AE's replacement will be Motion unless I can't do something in Motion. Hoping to cut the cord in April.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 1:38:31 pm

I'm not saying you have to like it, but it's not bullshit.

It does take some getting used to, but once it's there, the fcpx timeline for video editing is quite remarkable.

Sorry, but it's true at least for me.

I am I the midst of a two week client attended promo edit and X allows a lot of ideas to be procured quickly and non destructively, and Auditions in combination with the magnetic timeline as well as "blade speed" are truly an advancement in editing design. Having secondary storyline pods to play in and try ideas without disrupting the rest of the timeline is the antithesis of bullshit. And once fcpx really starts to make sense, the "Project" moniker starts to actually make some sense, but that's probably another conversation. It fits my needs, it might not fit everyone.

Audio editing could use some help, the UI could use some refinement especially in layer selection and management, some aspects of Library aren't my favorite, but the structure and methods of the timeline are quite powerful and creative, much more so than Pr's, and Legend's clunky timeline.

For dialog, X is a layup.


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Steve Connor
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 2:14:14 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I'm not saying you have to like it, but it's not bullshit.

It does take some getting used to, but once it's there, the fcpx timeline for video editing is quite remarkable.

Sorry, but it's true at least for me.

I am I the midst of a two week client attended promo edit and X allows a lot of ideas to be procured quickly and non destructively, and Auditions in combination with the magnetic timeline as well as "blade speed" are truly an advancement in editing design. Having secondary storyline pods to play in and try ideas without disrupting the rest of the timeline is the antithesis of bullshit. And once fcpx really starts to make sense, the "Project" moniker starts to actually make some sense, but that's probably another conversation. It fits my needs, it might not fit everyone.

Audio editing could use some help, the UI could use some refinement especially in layer selection and management, some aspects of Library aren't my favorite, but the structure and methods of the timeline are quite powerful and creative, much more so than Pr's, and Legend's clunky timeline. "


Well summed up Jeremy, won't convince the hater though.

The idea that if London and LA Post houses don't use FCP X then it will die is frankly laughable. Hard for some to imagine a world outside their own particular orbit.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Shawn Miller
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 5:38:21 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Mar 27, 2014 at 5:42:33 pm

[Steve Connor] "The idea that if London and LA Post houses don't use FCP X then it will die is frankly laughable. Hard for some to imagine a world outside their own particular orbit."

I think that could be said of just about any of us... workflow, NLE, OS, creative tools in general... whatever you prefer to use in your work, there always seems to be someone willing to disapprove of your choices... :-)

EDIT: And I do mean ANY of us... supporters and critics of FCPX alike!

Shawn



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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 2:48:27 am

I find this really quaint, when people on this forum discuss what happens in the UK and US as something that's universal. Do you guys have any idea how small, even minuscule, your numbers are? The whole of the USA is a small fraction of the world, in terms of population. And the UK is even smaller.

For instance, here in India, over a thousand feature films get released. Most are very trashy, but they still need editing systems (and editors) to edit them, since it doesn't quite come out the cameras ready for theatres.

Then there's TV. Even trashier, almost nauseating. But over 300 TV channels sending out 24 hour programming in over 25 different languages. Lots of editing systems needed there too.

Through the 00's Apple India ran many a program to ensure that Avid almost got wiped out. When X was introduced 2 years ago, Apple India dithered around and did nearly nothing to promote it.

Adobe India thought if they got the top broadcasters here to adopt Premiere, the rest will follow. Just like Avid smugly did in the 00's. We know how that went. Let's see how this goes.

Meanwhile, more and more individuals - people who make movies for the 'net and for TV, are adopting FCPX. it supports most cameras natively, any newbie can edit with it. Young people just take to X, if only to rebel against us old foggies who swear by Avid. And admittedly, once they get hooked to FCP X, its hard to tell a 20 something gal/guy that Avid is a superior system. Heck, its hard to even explain how Avid works.

And we have a neighbouring country called China. They have even more people and hence (probably) more editors. Someone at Discreet told me a long time ago that there were more Smokes in China than the rest of the world put together.

So guys, sure, go ahead and report what's happening on your island, but don't make it sound like the world is your island.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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Michael Gissing
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 31, 2014 at 2:42:08 am

Thank you Neil. The self importance of the UK and US is far to often a deluded barometer. Many years ago working on a mixing desk development with Yamaha, I was told by their team that small countries like Australia often were better placed to suggest development ideas because we were less influenced by entrenched conservative thinking like engineers at the BBC. Look at what companies like Fairlight and Blackmagic have done.

For me the really big markets like China and India are where I look for trends and small countries like Australia and Denmark for innovative developments. What happens in the US and UK is rarely informative to me of where the cutting edge (pun intended) is.


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 31, 2014 at 6:33:10 am

Michael,

Thanks for 'getting' it. Are you going to NAB? I'll be there and it would be wonderful to exchange notes on trends in the 'rest of the world' of digital post.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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Michael Gissing
Re: Miaow...
on Apr 1, 2014 at 12:24:47 pm

Hi Neil,

I am at the bottom (or top) of the world in Tasmania so a long way from NAB.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 5:23:47 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Audio editing could use some help"


And that's my principal problem. While I do a lot of picture editing, I do a lot more dialog editing.

Tim


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 5:45:06 pm

[TImothy Auld] "[Jeremy Garchow] "Audio editing could use some help"


And that's my principal problem. While I do a lot of picture editing, I do a lot more dialog editing.
"


I do too. And I find editing/cheating dialog in X to be an absolute dream. You do need to do a little organization to prevent the syllable you just chopped off from jumping around, but it's not a big deal. Other than that it beats the pants off any NLE I've used. The ability to adjust clips in sample increments is more like a DAW. FWIW

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Shawn Miller
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 5:49:25 pm

[Charlie Austin] "The ability to adjust clips in sample increments is more like a DAW. FWIW"

You can also edit and adjust clips down to the sample level in Premiere and Vegas... FYI. Speaking of... I think Vegas gets the prize for being the most DAW like. :-)

Shawn



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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 5:54:33 pm

[Shawn Miller] "You can also edit and adjust clips down to the sample level in Premiere and Vegas... FYI. Speaking of... I think Vegas gets the prize for being the most DAW like. :-)"

I've heard that about Vegas, I'd like to try it but I have the wrong OS... And yes, I realize you can edit and adjust audio in sample increments in other NLE's, but, AFAIK, you can't move or trim them in the timeline in that small an increment. I can trim or move a clip in minuscule increments without leaving the timeline. I like that.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Shawn Miller
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 6:15:27 pm

[Charlie Austin] "[Shawn Miller] "You can also edit and adjust clips down to the sample level in Premiere and Vegas... FYI. Speaking of... I think Vegas gets the prize for being the most DAW like. :-)"

I've heard that about Vegas, I'd like to try it but I have the wrong OS..."


I think Lance Batchelder used to run Vegas via Bootcamp... unless I'm misremembering that, hopefully he'll correct me if I'm wrong. I just remember 'back in the day', he was one of the few Mac users on the Sonic Foundry Vegas forums.

[Charlie Austin] "And yes, I realize you can edit and adjust audio in sample increments in other NLE's, but, AFAIK, you can't move or trim them in the timeline in that small an increment. I can trim or move a clip in minuscule increments without leaving the timeline. I like that."

No... you can move, edit and trim audio on the timeline (down to the sample level) in Premiere and Vegas. Unless I'm mistaken, Premiere has been able to do this since CS4... though, I could be misremembering that too. :-)

Shawn



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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 6:34:39 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Mar 27, 2014 at 6:35:48 pm

[Shawn Miller] "No... you can move, edit and trim audio on the timeline (down to the sample level) in Premiere and Vegas. Unless I'm mistaken, Premiere has been able to do this since CS4... though, I could be misremembering that too. :-)"

No, I just messed with it, you're right. You have to switch the timeline view to Audio time units. Also, waveforms don't move with the clip until you release it if you're dragging it, which kinda sucks... But I stand corrected. Not as fluid as X, but it's do-able...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Shawn Miller
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 8:38:04 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Also, waveforms don't move with the clip until you release it if you're dragging it, which kinda sucks..."

Yes, that would be helpful. It's odd that Premiere doesn't do this, considering that Audition does.

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 6:36:57 pm

[Charlie Austin] "I do too. And I find editing/cheating dialog in X to be an absolute dream. You do need to do a little organization to prevent the syllable you just chopped off from jumping around, but it's not a big deal. Other than that it beats the pants off any NLE I've used. The ability to adjust clips in sample increments is more like a DAW. FWIW"

It's not the acutely cutting and moving. That part if good in X, it's more the UI. The audio clips are smaller than the video clips and if you make the clips bigger, then the video clips are huge. The keyframes (while better in 10.1.1) are too sensitive

Not being able to attach audio to a connected clip sometimes causes a few headaches. Not being allowed to keep the audio stacking order straight is sometimes a concern.

Audio organization needs the most work.

So it's not the physical process of the editing, it's more of the UI, which does need some work


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 6:38:32 pm

Also, not being able to slip audio separate from video is a pain, especially if that clip is a connected clip.


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Jari Innanen
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 12:39:52 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Also, not being able to slip audio separate from video is a pain, especially if that clip is a connected clip."

You can easily slip audio separately with "Open in Timeline"-command.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 3:23:41 pm

[Jari Innanen] "You can easily slip audio separately with "Open in Timeline"-command."

Absolutely. To be fair, it is a bit of a pain to have to leave the "working" timeline for that, but it's quite easy.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 3:41:02 pm

All I'm saying, it'd be great to slip components in the timeline without all the extra work.

I don't necessarily need sync markers.

Many editors would use this feature, I'm sure.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 3:53:42 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "All I'm saying, it'd be great to slip components in the timeline without all the extra work. "

Absolutely agree. Hopefully they'll add this ability...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 11:33:06 pm

Glad it works for you. But believe me I have tried very hard to do what I do and it just doesn't work for me. Too many workarounds. Given the price point I would love it to work for me but it just doesn't. There's that and the fact that every other week I read in one forum or another about a problem that is an absolute deal breaker. Such as not being able to slip the audio from the video in the cut.

Tim


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 11:55:14 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Such as not being able to slip the audio from the video in the cut."

You can, you just have to detach it first (or place another copy of the video on top with a few keystrokes).

Just think, it's make up time for not having to patch anything when adding it to the timeline.

It's the yang to the yin.

Jeremy


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 11:59:02 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Just think, it's make up time for not having to patch anything when adding it to the timeline."

That alone is worth putting up with all of X's quirks. Just throwing stuff around in the timeline without worrying about it. When I work in 7 or Pr I want to pull my hair out now. No matter how "smart" the tracks or patching is, it ain't smarter than "put it wherever the hell you want". ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 5:05:42 pm

[Charlie Austin] "No matter how "smart" the tracks or patching is, it ain't smarter than "put it wherever the hell you want"."

Charlie,

It was a real relief when I switched to FCP in 2001 and could work without patching tracks. Having worked without patching tracks for well over 10 years, I do wonder why people hang onto that particular method of working.

But to each his or her own.

Sometimes it takes switching software to challenge old methods.

Franz.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 11:55:27 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Glad it works for you. But believe me I have tried very hard to do what I do and it just doesn't work for me. Too many workarounds. Given the price point I would love it to work for me but it just doesn't."

X is not without it's uh... foibles... and of course everyone works differently, but for me, editing audio is one of the things I like most about X. I'm curious as to the kind of stuff you find not working for you. Not in a "you're wrong" way, I'm genuinely curious..

[TImothy Auld] "There's that and the fact that every other week I read in one forum or another about a problem that is an absolute deal breaker. Such as not being able to slip the audio from the video in the cut."

Obviously I can't address all the forum deal-breakers, but FWIW that last one is definitely not true. If you need to slip (sync) audio you just need to detach it from the picture and it works like any other NLE.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 12:39:55 am

[Charlie Austin] "If you need to slip (sync) audio you just need to detach it from the picture and it works like any other NLE."

is that the full detach break where you lose all sync information?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 6:11:32 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "is that the full detach break where you lose all sync information?"

If you want to slip it, yes. But if you want to slip it, it was either out of sync to begin with, or you're detaching it to cheat some dialog or something thus knocking it of sync on purpose right? Otherwise, there's no reason to ever detach it.

Actually the lack of "sync markers" was something I missed for a while. But the thing is - and I'm honestly not being glib or a fan boy here - I've realized you don't really need them. In FCP 7 or Pr etc, you do need them because, although you can link tracks to video, A/V are always separate entities, which despite ones best efforts can accidentally get knocked out of sync.

With audio components in X, you never lose sync unless you explicitly want to. In which case, I guess, you're supposed to know what you're doing. But you can't accidentally knock audio out of sync when it is, literally, attached to the picture.

I'll detach audio only if I'm going to cheat something (and purposefully knock it out of sync), or use it under b-roll type picture that it's not in sync with anyway. And If I cheat a line or something, I'll just re-attach to the pix by creating a compound clip which I can use as a source and manipulate just like any other A/V clip.

Otherwise, every bit of sync audio (generally multichannel split sources in my case) is always in sync, and available to be enabled or disabled as I need it.

Sorry for the rant. ;-) X can definitely be annoying at times, but the stuff people (who often don't really use it) obsess about - like this, like the magnetic timeline in general - are the least of it's problems. Hell, they're the best parts of it. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Herb Sevush
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 3:43:32 pm

[Charlie Austin] "If you want to slip it, yes. But if you want to slip it, it was either out of sync to begin with, or you're detaching it to cheat some dialog or something thus knocking it of sync on purpose right? Otherwise, there's no reason to ever detach it."

Yes and no. I slip out of sync on purpose, but then I often need to slip back into sync. I change my mind a lot as I edit. Most of my audio starts as sync, but then 20-40% becomes cheated, and this is extremely fluid as I refine what I'm doing. Sync becomes cheat becomes sync becomes cheat as I'm slipping audio or video constantly. The idea of doing this without sync markers in a multicam setting where the whole concept of sync is more fluid to begin with is terrifying. I'm sure there are many valid workflows within X that can handle this, but I will say to an outsider it sounds like jumping out a plane without a chute.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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John Godwin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 3:52:31 pm

I haven't tried this in multicam, but on a regular timeline you just select the clip (the video in my use) you want to resync, Reveal in Browser, then drag that clip down over the clip you want to resync to, and drop it on the clip. Then select Replace from Start and the clip and audio are there. Only takes a couple of seconds.

Best,
John


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 4:08:24 pm

[John Godwin] "Reveal in Browser, then drag that clip down over the clip you want to resync to, and drop it on the clip. Then select Replace from Start and the clip and audio are there. Only takes a couple of seconds."

I dunno how it'd work in multi cam either but yeah, If I need to do this I'll select the clip and do the same thing with the KB. Shift-F, OPTION-R. less than a second. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 4:31:43 pm

[Charlie Austin] "I dunno how it'd work in multi cam either but yeah, If I need to do this I'll select the clip and do the same thing with the KB. Shift-F, OPTION-R. less than a second. :-)"

It's is very easy, but don't forget to copy all of your effects/transforms first to paste later, and be prepared to redo any split edits and levels.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 4:02:07 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Mar 28, 2014 at 4:04:06 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The idea of doing this without sync markers in a multicam setting where the whole concept of sync is more fluid to begin with is terrifying."

Makes sense, for this type of work some sort of sync indicator would be useful. You could just add a common marker before you knock something out of sync, but I get your point.

[Herb Sevush] "I'm sure there are many valid workflows within X that can handle this, but I will say to an outsider it sounds like jumping out a plane without a chute."

lol I hear ya. And I'm not saying that X is the NLE for your workflow, it may not be But I've had the same feeling... for me it's been like jumping without a chute and then, despite being prepared to slam to earth, feeling like I can fly. ;-) Now, sometimes I'm wrong and I do slam to earth, but never too hard. So I keep jumping. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 11:54:13 am

I do a bit of doc work and also a five camera TV show. In both cases I do a lot of compressing statements (or creating statements with spare parts) via audio editing, but it is particularly important to me that the relationship between the video and the audio of a given clip is always maintained. I am not saying that FCP X cannot accomplish virtually any editorial task in some way. I'm just saying that I can accomplish what I need to faster and more efficiently with other NLE's at present. I think they are probably instances where it would be faster and more efficient. A multicamera music piece with a set audio track that doesn't not need editing would be a good example. But for most of what I do the grass in greener elsewhere.

Tim


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 3:49:39 pm

[TImothy Auld] "I do a lot of compressing statements (or creating statements with spare parts) via audio editing, but it is particularly important to me that the relationship between the video and the audio of a given clip is always maintained."

I spend a lot of time creating "FrankenDialog" as well. I prefer doing this in X, especially since I can take all the little bits I've hacked together and reattach them to the video in a compound clip so they never lose their (new) sync.

[TImothy Auld] "I am not saying that FCP X cannot accomplish virtually any editorial task in some way. I'm just saying that I can accomplish what I need to faster and more efficiently with other NLE's at present. "

Makes perfect sense. Ultimately if you (or anyone) is more comfortable working in a particular NLE than that's what you should use. All I'm saying is that doing this sort of thing in X is really easy and doesn't require workarounds or anything. It's not accomplished "in some way", it's by design. Sync is maintained unless you specifically choose to "unsync". And even if you do, it's trivial to lock it back together.

Which brings me back to the point about sync markers. I don't miss them, because my sync audio (dia.fx, whatever) is never detached from the video. If the pics move the audio does too, I don't give it a second thought. Now, I might have piles of sfx and cut music under any given shot sequence so it's not like I don't have to pay attention to sync of these connected (detached) audio when you move bits around, of course I do. Just like any other NLE. I'm really not trying to evangelize here, it's just not as big a deal as some seem to believe. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:14:21 pm

No, it's not huge deal. But it is a deal. And it's a deal that would cost me clients. Believe me, mine don't want to hear about it. Even if I could make it work in my little world, based on the company's clearly demonstrated ambivalence to workflows that don't suit its idea of the future, I have to cast a baleful eye on FCPX.

Tim


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:25:50 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Even if I could make it work in my little world, based on the company's clearly demonstrated ambivalence to workflows that don't suit its idea of the future, I have to cast a baleful eye on FCPX."

All good. I'm fortunate I guess... for all my clients know I could be cutting on windows movie maker. All they ever see is what comes out the end. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:26:40 pm

You are blessed.

Tim


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:33:16 pm

[TImothy Auld] "You are blessed."

I dunno about that... you should meet my clients. ;-)


I'm kidding of course. They are all wonderful! Particularly those who enjoy ready editors' forum posts! xoxo

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 3:30:15 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "X remains probably total bullshit as an editing system."

Ah yes, yet another incredibly professional and well thought out comment.

Apple doesn't care about the old guys, like most on this forum. And London post houses don't matter a rip either.

What I am seeing is 22-26 year olds switching from Premiere TO FCP X. The Premiere CC model sucks, and they feel the interface is shabby (I agree. It's awful, at least in my CS6.). So X makes sense to them. There's the future, not some post houses in the UK. They are just using it and don't care what Aindreas or any of us, for that matter, babble about.

This is a bigger loss for Avid.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 12:27:49 am

[Scott Witthaus] " "X remains probably total bullshit as an editing system.""

you're maybe taking that out of context, X is the furthest thing from bullshit. Someone smart said on a podcast lately that X is an impossible mix of genius and half insane. that they went for the bleachers. I do personally think the timeline is bonkers, that said - I barely qualify as an editor. I raised a point about classic alt dragging a while ago that proved to me i don't even know my arse from my elbow in the system I prefer... so there's that.

that said, what I said, half carefully was:

"Realistically, in terms of the timeline operation, X remains probably total bullshit as an editing system. "

that is a couched phrase specific only to the timeline operation. like almost everyone else I have occasional mad hankerings for the overall system provided.

they've successfully altered the file unit, the checkbox drop in swap out proxy system is a near joke in its simplicity, the native CC with power windows beggars everyone, the inspector level audio muting/manipulation control across multiple clips is zany, I can live happily with the wonky pentagram colour wheel given they have altered the fx plug stuff - and the schema for organisation and tagging is around a galaxy away from other editing systems.

I personally choose to harp on what is a peculiarly arcane timeline that verges on wilful linguistic bullshit.

I await a conscious uncoupling of audio elements to allow me to slip them separate from the video.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Steve Connor
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 9:12:42 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I await a conscious uncoupling of audio elements to allow me to slip them separate from the video.
"


Classic

Steve Connor

FCP X - it ain't going away!


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Dean Neal
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 9:52:12 am

What News production houses are using is moot to me when it comes to NLE choices.

In fact, if you are frustrated with FCP X and it's perceived limitations and you are in the TV News industry... you better take a deep breath.

It's just the beginning... simplification is coming, across a broad spectrum in our industry.

Speaking of the BBC... I enjoyed this little GEM on Smartphone Video Journalism Tips:







It's funny - a few years ago we were lacking a key 3-second overlay shot for a sponsorship promo... so... we shot it with an iPhone4s at the time.

This shot made it alongside our full XDCAM HD422 50mbit/s content that was a Nationally aired Commercial TV show that had 200,000 plus viewers!

Point is, just because telecine approaches fit our old heads snugly...doesn't mean changes won't come that may challenge our established thinking on how content will be shot, ingested, edited and then delivered.

I enjoyed this piece from an ABC shooter in Beijing a while ago:

An Australian News Shooter falls for FCP X

Major Australian Networks like the ABC are still using FCP 7... Network TEN (A company I have done a lot of work with over the years) are using AVID at the very high end in-house but News work is all done using Viz One's EASYCUT software.

This is about 'grab n' go' editing.

Even more interestingly, Australian newsrooms are going the way of many around the world...and that's multi-skilling journos to edit their own news packages...'one stop shops' as it were.

Senior editors are a threatened breed in major TV networks... and now often work as mentors to these news editors/journalists...or undertake high end creative/compositing work...or... go and work for a private production house.

It's in these trends that I can see a big future for FCP X... whether you, or I - like it or not.

However, I can tell you with authority, that all major TV networks in Australia have received and aired Nationally aired TV content edited within FCP X.

Yes, I have used FCP X, delivered content with it... it still needs development but its metadata foundations and the way it handles media points to an interesting future.

Of course, products like PPro are gathering good steam here too... I am starting to sense more acceptance however for FCP X in these parts.

Do I like FCP X? Yes I do...I can see where it's heading and does many things well already.

Things I don't like about it? Yes... colour correction is a little Mickey Mouse, however the scopes are far better now than in FCP 7... I also did not like how Apple handles the product transition from 7 to X for the industry...to say the least.

Dean Neal...


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 11:53:57 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Mar 27, 2014 at 1:00:32 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "As far as I get it, large local parties are settling for premiere."

And this is who Creative Cloud benefits. Big companies (or larger small businesses), fixed/allocated spending, and Adobe.

Adobe seems to be shunning all but the busiest of freelancers, unless of course, you're a photog and you get the $10/mo plan.


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Steve Connor
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 9:53:36 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "It is an open question how long everyone keeps talking about X"

Perhaps if you stopped first everyone else would follow?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 5:09:32 pm

[Steve Connor] "Perhaps if you stopped first everyone else would follow?"

Or maybe you should stop bullying those who disagree with X and want to express their opinions. Go to the X Techniques forum instead if you're set with it.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 5:13:05 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "[Steve Connor] "Perhaps if you stopped first everyone else would follow?"

Or maybe you should stop bullying those who disagree with X and want to express their opinions. Go to the X Techniques forum instead if you're set with it."


Miaow! lol

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Steve Connor
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 6:04:16 pm
Last Edited By Steve Connor on Mar 28, 2014 at 6:15:47 pm

[Charlie Austin] "[Gustavo Bermudas] "[Steve Connor] "Perhaps if you stopped first everyone else would follow?"

Or maybe you should stop bullying those who disagree with X and want to express their opinions. Go to the X Techniques forum instead if you're set with it."

Miaow! lol"


Indeed!

Steve Connor

Class Bully


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Steve Connor
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 6:02:04 pm
Last Edited By Steve Connor on Mar 28, 2014 at 6:03:43 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "Or maybe you should stop bullying those who disagree with X and want to express their opinions. Go to the X Techniques forum instead if you're set with it.
"


Yes, bullying, that's what I'm doing, of course, it's obvious now, thanks for pointing it out. I'll stop immediately.

Steve Connor

FCP X - it ain't going away!


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TImothy Auld
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 6:23:53 pm

I have not noticed any bullying here. I have noticed diverging opinions and people trying to understand how other people think and why. But I have not seen bullying.

Tim


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:32:29 pm
Last Edited By Gustavo Bermudas on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:33:09 pm

[TImothy Auld] "I have not noticed any bullying here. I have noticed diverging opinions and people trying to understand how other people think and why. But I have not seen bullying."

You're probably right, although the major condescending by some makes it look like it


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:37:25 pm

[Gustavo Bermudas] "[TImothy Auld] "I have not noticed any bullying here. I have noticed diverging opinions and people trying to understand how other people think and why. But I have not seen bullying."

You're probably right, although the major condescending by some makes it look like it"


There's condescension being tossed from all sides here. That's what makes it fun!

Though, as someone who primarily edits lolcat videos to post on youtube, it can be tough on me sometimes. Lowest of the low....

:-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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TImothy Auld
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:45:03 pm

I always suspected that you were the lowest of the low. Until now that was on my resume. Guess I'll have to think of another superlative for myself.

Tim


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:50:17 pm

[TImothy Auld] "I always suspected that you were the lowest of the low. Until now that was on my resume. Guess I'll have to think of another superlative for myself.
"


I win! er... Lose! crap. Guess i should get back to work.... :slinks off: :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Steve Connor
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 10:42:56 pm

[TImothy Auld] "I have not noticed any bullying here. I have noticed diverging opinions and people trying to understand how other people think and why. But I have not seen bullying.
"


Don't forget humour, that's one of the good bits as well, even if some don't quite get the jokes sometimes :)

Steve Connor

Class Bully


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 8:30:15 pm

wait - er, steve connor is bullying me with that comment? I'm offended at the very notion. Offended I say.

Christ - people would want to recall the daily rabid fireball diatribes thrown around here back in the day. I stick around prodding X out of sheer habit. This place is camomile tea these days.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Shane Ross
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 11:36:45 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Why would they? It's not real football after all..."

It's only 100 times more popular, and watched by tens if not hundreds of millions more people that 'Merican "Football."

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 26, 2014 at 11:58:45 pm

[Shane Ross] "It's only 100 times more popular, and watched by tens if not hundreds of millions more people that 'Merican "Football.""

I know. :-) I was actually in one of the first "organized" youth soccer leagues here in 'merica back in the dark ages.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Don Scioli
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 12:00:22 am

As TV's Jay Pritchard said "I like to watch a sport where something happens".


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Steve Connor
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 10:00:47 am

[Don Scioli] "As TV's Jay Pritchard said "I like to watch a sport where something happens"."

If you don't like the continuous action of (real) football then you could try watching Rugby, it's like US Football but without the TV breaks and heavy padding for the players?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Tom Sefton
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 3:03:03 pm

Yes, watch rugby. League or Union its miles better than football.







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Trevor Asquerthian
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 27, 2014 at 9:01:13 pm

Didn't mean to dis FCPx... I'd quite like someone to pay me to edit on it so I can learn it properly... No sign of that (in London) yet though.

Patrice is right that HBS (who were all FCP7 in 2010) might well go on a different tangent next time... (all the big networks in the iBC will be on Avid, again)

My main point was that these tournaments are great R&D for manufacturers.

(Listening & paying attention is key though.)

BBC, ITV & Sky (if anyone cares) are largely Avid in their main broadcast centres - with hefty investments in Interplay/Isis that is likely to keep them that way.

22-26 year olds can edit with what they like - but currently they'll need to know Avid if they want to earn much of a living working directly for broadcasters in the UK. Or LA or NY or CT for that matter.



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Eric Santiago
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 12:46:53 am

[Trevor Asquerthian] "22-26 year olds can edit with what they like - but currently they'll need to know Avid if they want to earn much of a living working directly for broadcasters in the UK. Or LA or NY or CT for that matter."

You would think but its a very BIG world out there so I wouldnt think thats the norm.

Sure Im in Canada and I dont count but we all have to make a living :)


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Bret Williams
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 1:18:42 am

20 years I've been a non-linear editor. I spent about 3 using Avid. '98-2001. But at the same time I was using media 100, FCP, Sphere, and even editDV.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 8:17:34 pm

Same here - I've made good money off of just about every NLE out there since the late 90's including Avid, Sony Vegas (my all-time fav) FCP, Premiere and even a little Edius and Avid DS and yes even FCPX.

I do tend to lean towards Aindreas camp when it comes to X, for all the uber cool features and hidden pluses, the main weakness is actually the timeline and EDITING! I think the only way for veteran Editors like myself to really learn to like FCPX is to do a major gig with it and plow through regardless of how you feel about - just pretend it's the only LE available and finish the show. By major I mean something like a TV show, high end doc or feature film - something fairly long with a busy timeline and just see how it goes. This is my plan with my next feature film - don't know if I'll make it but will try...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Bret Williams
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 8:32:01 pm

Wouldn't a doc or TV show be a fairly basic timeline? When I think complicated timeline I think corporate video where we're doing layers and layers of green screen combined with motion graphics and sometimes cheesy effects. When I think TV show I think drama and basically cuts and dissolves, but heavy on the color correction and sound design. Both of which are usually done by third parties outside of the app.

The first thing I did in X was a fairly basic piece that was going to utilize two of X's strengths- logging/key wording, and multicam. It was one of those pieces where we asked different people the same 10 questions and had to piece together a narrative with their answers. Each interview was shot with 2 cams and an external recorder. So they utilized multicam and audio syncing. And key wording the answers by question/topic and then also by favorites really opened my eyes to the power of key wording vs bins.

From there on out it was just about comfort level. And the app was buggier back then as well (2 years ago).


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 8:53:37 pm

[Bret Williams] "Wouldn't a doc or TV show be a fairly basic timeline?"

I think it's tough to generalize about anything like that, though it happens all the time, and not just here. Feature folks think TV or Advertising is simple, Advertising folks think long form is pretty basic etc etc. I've cut 30 second spots that have made the folks responsible for online/mix heads explode. And the opposite is true as well. A romantic comedy is gonna have way less going on than an epic shoot-em-up action movie. A doc about a painter is gonna have less going on that one about a world war. Or not. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 28, 2014 at 9:20:18 pm

I'm basically saying any show of 1/2 hour or longer with a fairly complex timeline. My last 2 national TV shows had a ton of compositing, flares etc with layer modes, multi-layered graphics and lower 3rds etc. plus a ton of color fx etc. I cut both in Premiere CC with no issues.

I do all my own sound design when I cut, regardless of the show type, so ease of audio editing/mixing etc is important to me. The way I cut with sound, Sony Vegas has been, by far, the best NLE for those who like working with sound and picture. FCPX is pretty cool with audio, much better than Premiere or Avid, but it can get frustrating at times when I'm build a scene with a dozen or more laters of sound fx and music...

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 11:13:25 am
Last Edited By Ronny Courtens on Mar 29, 2014 at 1:07:09 pm

Here's a typical timeline of a 20' tv-show in X. It involves green keys and multiple stacks of titles and graphics.



In all fairness the "live" audio was prepped in X (J and L cuts, audio leveling a.s.o...) and a final mix of the VO and live was done in ProTools via X2PRO (see the Final Mix clip at the bottom). In the near future the complete audio for this series will be finished right inside X as well.

This 1080p25 timeline plays un-rendered on full-spec new iMacs and MacPros without any problems, from start to end. 40 and 50 minute multicam shows involving 6 to 8 angles plus the same multiple stacks of titles and graphics also run un-rendered without any issues.

Shows like this are being cut on X on a daily basis in some of the largest European production companies. We have been doing it for nearly two years now, and I'm in regular contact with other major houses that are already doing the same thing or that are transitioning to X. Why don't we talk about this on the internet? Because not everyone gets off on going public about what gear they use. When we used Avid and FCP we didn't go public on that either. Simply because from a business point of view you need to keep a certain distance from your suppliers, and also because our clients really don't give a hoot about what their programs are being cut on anyway.

- Ronny


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tony west
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 2:21:54 pm
Last Edited By tony west on Mar 29, 2014 at 2:36:48 pm

I saw an interview with Milana Vayntrub on the web the other day. For those that don't know her she is an actor and has been doing a little youtube comedic series called "Let's talk about something more interesting" (funny)

She was asked in the interview what she cuts on and she said "final cut"
Since she has not been cutting long I took that to be X most likely.

She started doing the series to get exposure and to make money since she knew of another actor that was buying a house based on his web show.

You can see Milana on nation AT&T spots now (she's not new to TV).

She's an actor who needed to edit because she wanted to take control and do her own thing.

She's not Ronny, and doesn't want to be, but she's most likely on the same software.

That's the genius of X

It can handle the skills of a Ronny but is accessible to Milana (or a person that's not a full time editor and doesn't want to be).


I see a future where Ronny and Milana both win. And so does Apple












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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 2:47:03 pm

[tony west] "It can handle the skills of a Ronny but is accessible to Milana (or a person that's not a full time editor and doesn't want to be)."

If anyone is interested in this subject at all, you should check out Frontline's Generation Like:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/generation-like/

Jeremy


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tony west
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 2:46:38 pm

I'm a big Frontline fan : )

That's a good piece. Did you happen to notice that the little 13 year old skateboarder was cutting his videos in Legend?

Interesting


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 4:02:23 pm

[tony west] "I'm a big Frontline fan : )

That's a good piece. Did you happen to notice that the little 13 year old skateboarder was cutting his videos in Legend?

Interesting"



I did! And one of the other older guys was cutting in X.

I guess X isn't for everyone? :)


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tony west
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 4:21:35 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I did! And one of the other older guys was cutting in X.

I guess X isn't for everyone? :)
"


It might not be a case of choice.

The kid and his family were struggling $ wise

Legend was not exactly cheap. Might have been a reach for him, or like many, somebody gives you a copy of the disk (not so far out of reach). Many who make more than that kids family take free when given.

No disk for X You have to pay, and maybe he couldn't.

I have no ideal really, just wondering aloud the decisions form different people in different circumstances.

Just trying to look deeper to what may lead to certain decisions on different levels.

Even Apple in moving away from disk or the CC subscription.

X is cheaper than Legend was, but in that kids case does it help or hurt him?


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 4:27:56 pm

[tony west] "X is cheaper than Legend was, but in that kids case does it help or hurt him?"

Legend is, for all intents and purposes, free at this point. And readily available. Anyone with a little internet savvy and a torrent client can get it in no time. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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tony west
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 4:40:08 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Legend is, for all intents and purposes, free at this point. And readily available. Anyone with a little internet savvy and a torrent client can get it in no time. ;-)"

It was always free, if somebody gave it to you : )

You didn't need to be that savvy, they just give you the disk and code.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 5:08:21 pm

[tony west] "It might not be a case of choice.

The kid and his family were struggling $ wise"


No question.


"This is my living room, this is where my dad sleeps (points to bed in the living room), (points to couch in living room) I lay down there ... sometimes"

Perhaps, using 7 was mostly out of necessity (although he has sponsors and a Mac laptop, I'm sure if he wanted, he could ask one of those sponsors to buy X for him).

I'm sure that 7 is easier to "get" than X at this point, but...

Isn't it just the least bit ironic that a skateboarder was NOT using X, but rather FCP7, since X, apparently, was created "for skateboarders"?


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 5:14:28 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Isn't it just the least bit ironic that a skateboarder was NOT using X, but rather FCP7, since X, apparently, was created "for skateboarders"?"

Not at all. While young, clearly he is a professional. Why would he use iMovie Pro, an amateur NLE? I can't believe you couldn't see that Jeremy. :-p

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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tony west
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 31, 2014 at 1:06:32 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "
"This is my living room, this is where my dad sleeps (points to bed in the living room), (points to couch in living room) I lay down there ... sometimes"
"


That made me sad when he said that, and when his videos seem to devolve into almost a soft core porn
to get attention.

He was a talented skateboarder, wish it had been enough.

But a topic for another day.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 31, 2014 at 1:20:57 am

[tony west] "
That made me sad when he said that, and when his videos seem to devolve into almost a soft core porn
to get attention.

He was a talented skateboarder, wish it had been enough."


Generation Like, indeed.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 6:59:36 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[tony west] "I'm a big Frontline fan : )

That's a good piece. Did you happen to notice that the little 13 year old skateboarder was cutting his videos in Legend?

Interesting"


I did! And one of the other older guys was cutting in X.
"


Here's the irony: one of the earliest stock insults hurled at X is that it's only suited to cutting skateboard videos! In fact, there's a thread at the COW from 2004 where someone accuses Legend of the same thing -- being best suited for skateboard videos!

So it looks like the guy 10 years ago was right, that Legend is the right tool for skateboard videos. LOL


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 7:34:55 pm

[Tim Wilson] "In fact, there's a thread at the COW from 2004 where someone accuses Legend of the same thing -- being best suited for skateboard videos!"

Link please. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Daniel Frome
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 4:46:26 pm

Well...why not, right? They've used every other NLE in the past, switching back and forth, etc.

Avid is the slowest, FCPx is the fastest, and Ppro seems a pretty good middle ground of "I know how to use this" and "I can get it done fast."

If someone didn't need multi-editor sharing on an ISIS, but still needed a large talent pool to hire from, I don't really see a better option than Premiere Pro (if Avid isn't your schtick).


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Ty Vann
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 5:58:08 pm

It's nice to hear another yet professional say Apple has moved from the professional platform. That news never gets old.

Aindreas, keep preaching. You should know the Empire died long ago and no longer holds sway in these parts.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 8:59:11 pm

damn straight.

Also it should be noted that ronny courtens operates in belgium, a country that according to recent science does not actually exist, a country indeed, that hasn't had an acting government since mid 2003.

It can be little surprise that the remaining, existentially confused belgians have opted for FCPX. Adobe has entered into quiet discussions with the hard working flemish however. They apparently enjoy its brutalist, sleek interface.

** - shots fired - **

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 9:58:18 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "It can be little surprise that the remaining, existentially confused belgians have opted for FCPX. Adobe has entered into quiet discussions with the hard working flemish however. They apparently enjoy its brutalist, sleek interface."

Finally! We have evolved from NLE wars to rampant nationalism! It brings to mind a little piece titled:

"Foreigners Around the World. A Brief Survey of the Various Foreigners, Their Chief Characteristics, Customs, and Manners" by P.J. O'Rourke.

From a time when Political Correctness had not been invented. It is racist, misogynist, and offensive. You should probably not google it. Good day.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 10:30:57 pm

Dear Aindreas,

I know it must hurt you like hell that you are being proven wrong (-:

To further add to your frustration I will add that the screenshot is from an international production I edited in our post house in France, another "little, non-existing country". And concerning Belgium it seems that your knowledge of our country is as bad as your knowledge of FCP X: actually I am Flemish, and everyone knows that "hard working Flemish " like to own things, not rent them (-:

- Ronny


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 29, 2014 at 11:08:36 pm

for the love of god that was for fun.

I was playmaking. last I heard Ireland was financially quite reliant on Belgian good wishes.
I'm not directing a political tract at belgian acceptance of FCPX. Or the Flemish component.

Christ almighty. Will you not tell me you didn't actually take that seriously.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 8:16:06 am

Of course I did not take that seriously my friend. Didn't you notice the (-: ? No offense taken, I actually enjoy your Irish sense of humor.

I often hear about the "problems" between Flemish and French-speaking Belgians, especially on international media and on the internet. And every time it makes me wonder if the people who are spreading this nonsense have actually ever been in our country. Because in reality Belgians get along with each other extremely well.

The false perception of Belgium being a divided country is only fed by a minority of extremists, supported by some opportunistic politicians. Of course we have our problems, just like any other country. But all in all Belgium is still one of the better places in the world to live in today, and the ignorant statements we sometimes read about our country only make us laugh.

So you definitely have a point here: Belgians and FCP X do have a lot in common (-:

- Ronny


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Thomas Frank
Re: Miaow...
on Mar 30, 2014 at 5:22:41 am

Good editors don't brag about there software (fan boys) but about there technics! mwahahaha



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