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Chris Borjis
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 20, 2011 at 12:22:14 am

ya, more positive thoughts by those that have not tried it yet.



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Craig Seeman
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 20, 2011 at 2:42:55 am

My guess is everyone who claims to be "moving" to something else will also be paying the $299 to play with FCP first hand. Then you have to factor in the costs of moving many seats in a facility vs taking a couple of weeks to burn in a single seat of FCPX . . . they're going to wait and play and Apple is likely going to win them over.

When those in smaller and one person shops see the workflow efficiency improvements which may well be more readily apparent to them, will have no problem moving right back to FCP.

In 2000 I'd been using Avid for about 11 years (basically since it was released with it's initial almost unviewable compression). The first few days with FCP it was confusion about not "stepping in" and opening things in the viewer to tweak and by the end of the week it was, compositing is easier and not have to go into "modes" to move things around and, I was liking it. It still couldn't match Avid at that point but just a few years later as it matured and, at a great price point, it was easy to move . . . to FCP.

When people see how easy it is to work with 4K with Thunderbolt connected Raids on their MacBookPros or their 12 core Macs with multiple Thunderbolt cards people will "get" it. When people see that ingest doesn't mean you have to stop editing, when those still using tape ingest find they don't have to tie up the NLE so it can keep editing, they will "get" it.



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Rafael Amador
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 20, 2011 at 9:57:09 am

[Craig Seeman] "My guess is everyone who claims to be "moving" to something else will also be paying the $299 to play with FCP first hand. Then you have to factor in the costs of moving many seats in a facility vs taking a couple of weeks to burn in a single seat of FCPX . . . they're going to wait and play and Apple is likely going to win them over."
I don't think will be much problem having both apps on the same computer.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 20, 2011 at 2:27:18 pm

[Rafael Amador] "I don't think will be much problem having both apps on the same computer."

Not at all which is why I don't think the "movers" will really be moving all that much. The problem comes if/when there are hardware costs involved. If "moving" involves switching all the GPUS from ATI to nVidia, if FCP compatible cards don't work with Avid. Those costs add up. No one is going to jump unless they find FCPX a detraction from their business.

It'll be far easier to transition from FCP7 to FCPX then FCP7 to Avid or to change FCP7 systems with ATI cards to Premiere systems having to buy nVidia cards to take full advantage of Mercury.

In my experience moves are more likely happen when the costs drop, not go up. Avid people moved to FCP because it was less expensive to do that then upgrade their Avid systems.

In short, much fewer facilities will move than the grumblings we see. It'll be far easier for them to play for a bit and at $299 for FCPX, Apple understands that.



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walter biscardi
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 22, 2011 at 12:09:40 am

[Craig Seeman] "Not at all which is why I don't think the "movers" will really be moving all that much. The problem comes if/when there are hardware costs involved. If "moving" involves switching all the GPUS from ATI to nVidia, if FCP compatible cards don't work with Avid. Those costs add up. No one is going to jump unless they find FCPX a detraction from their business."

Avid has already opened up their software to AJA and Matrox external cards. AJA makes some, if not all of the hardware that runs current Avids.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the question is no longer "if" Avid will support AJA (and probably BMD) capture cards, but "when." My guess is much sooner than later.

When I have to install at least 7 copies of software and I need all my editors to be up to speed on it quickly AND all my freelancers as well, then it better be a familiar software.

When I have to interface with sound studios, post production studios, numerous independent producers, my software have to work correctly importing / exporting all media.



[Craig Seeman] "It'll be far easier to transition from FCP7 to FCPX then FCP7 to Avid or to change FCP7 systems with ATI cards to Premiere systems having to buy nVidia cards to take full advantage of Mercury."

Really? Have you looked at the Avid, FCP 7 and Premiere interfaces? They're basically the same. Heck we have have Premiere in our shop for several years now since we just buy the entire Creative Suite each year. It's nothing to simply switch over to Premiere. Looking at the Avid interface, we'll be editing immediately and figure the rest of it in less than a week.

Running Premiere with the ATI cards currently in our machines still gives us faster performance than with FCP and they work perfectly fine with our AJA Kona boards. So even if you were to just switch to Premiere and leave all your other hardware the same, you're going to get a performance boost. We have simply chosen to continue with FCP to this point waiting to see what Apple was going to release.

We'll definitely buy one copy of FCP X to play with and see just exactly what it will and will not do in terms of interfacing with other apps and the other pro features we need. However, the $995 cross grade price to Avid certainly makes that much more palatable for us, particularly with the much improved efficiency of codec handling and the really nice round trip to / from Resolve / Pro Tools and others.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Craig Seeman
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 22, 2011 at 1:41:41 am

Walter if you find the switch easy and affordable why delay to hear more from a company who's business practices you don't like and who's product may not meet your needs.

Apparently despite all that you're holding off. For some reason, not financial, not related to personal training, is holding you back. Of course maybe I'm wrong and you're already setting up your Avids or Premiere Pros.

Even if you downloaded one copy on the day FCPX arrives, you may find the interface is far more radically changed from FCP7 than either of the aforementioned NLEs. There's no point in waiting if your editors will be up to speed faster on the other NLEs.

Even if you were able to customize the interface back to something that looks like a traditional NLE, you've made it quite clear you can't securely base your business decisions on a company that secretive. This secretive behavior is not new so if it seems clear that this will happen again, sticking with FCP would seem to be a very insecure business decision. Than it makes sense for you to switch regardless of what Apple offers.

If you feel there is risk that even a single key feature that you facility depends on, is missing, why take that risk? You can switch now with confidence, having done your research, that Avid and/or Premiere Pro will meet your needs. In fact, given the 1.0 nature of FCPX, you may even find the key features are there but deleteriously buggy.

You like what Avid has to offer. You already have Premiere Pro, The costs are minimal. The personal training is minimal. You find Apple's ongoing secretive practices a risk to your business. They're offer a new product which only has a brand name in common with an old product complete with the risk of missing or buggy features. I see no reason why you haven't completed your move to Avid or Premiere since it's affordable, quick, more secure for your business's future.

Heck you could even switch back FCPX 3, two years from now if they've have everything worked out and your happy with it at that point.

Or maybe you do have some hope that Apple will be delivering a game changer which, despite the fact there will be some retraining time, will increase your company's efficiency or decrease your cost of doing business. Maybe Apple's history of success against Avid and Premiere, even as a company that had no prior experience in the Post Production industry, causes you to suspect that they're smart enough to come out with something new with enough workflow improvements, that it will continue the lead the industry.

I don't know which of the above comes closest to where you're at . . . but you're spending your time complaining rather than writing a brilliant blog post how you've switched your facility in just a week or three so that all the other businesses in the same situation can be helped by that.

If you genuinely are waiting . . . then maybe you should write about that. The risk of business uncertainty in facility management is an excellent topic . . . and it won't sound like a complaint.



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Paul Dickin
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 22, 2011 at 10:44:25 am

"It takes a worried man to sing a worried song..." Woodie Guthrie et al.

[Craig Seeman] "...FCPX 3, two years from now if they've have everything worked out "
Hi
That's about it, in business planning terms, I reckon.
Same as the old FCP - it wasn't until v2 that it became usable, it wasn't until v3 that it became fully featured, and it took the v4 rewrite to make it capable of becoming an 'industry standard'.

So FCS 3/FCP 7 (or A. or A.) will have to do for the foreseeable future until FCP X 3 or 4.1 comes along ;-)
In business planning terms Apple are likely to be secretive because there's a lot still to do.
To some extent that relies on other worldwide technical standards being updated to be fit for the 21st century - like timecode (and, as mentioned elsewhere, EDLs etc...)

Seems reasonable to me to apply old tools to old standards, yet look forward to hugely improved solutions to doing things more efficiently.

"...I'm worried now, but I won't be worried long." :-)



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Rafael Amador
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 22, 2011 at 10:50:35 am

Incertitude?
Incertitude is what I had when i jumped to FC in 2001.
I bought an skinny, gray application with very little functions and options, and from a company without any previous experience on video.
Looks like the very day FCX will be released everybody will need to take a decision that will mark the rest of their lives.
I won't start to think about this till I'm able to run FCX. FC7 still working
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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walter biscardi
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 22, 2011 at 2:09:06 pm

[Rafael Amador] "Looks like the very day FCX will be released everybody will need to take a decision that will mark the rest of their lives."

For $299? hardly. On the day it's released Apple will be able to issue a PR release that says something like "Apple shatters all download records with 2 (3, 4, 5) million downloads in a single day (weekend, week)" blah blah blah.

At $299 it makes total business sense for EVERY post production facility to one man band in the world to have a copy of FCP X in their shop. If for no other reason than to be able to bring in a project from another editor. So from a business standpoint, you'd be an idiot to not at least install one copy somewhere in your shop.

So Apple will be able to sing about the 5, 8, 10 million registered users of FCP X like it's some huge deal that so many people have at least purchased / installed it.

But a major change in the rest of our lives? Not really. You need to make a business decision based on your needs, your workflow and how much you interface with outside production companies / broadcasters. You're going to download FCP X but will you make it your primary editor right off the bat or simply have it around for testing and to interface with other FCP X editors as needed?

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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walter biscardi
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 22, 2011 at 2:04:48 pm

[Craig Seeman] " Walter if you find the switch easy and affordable why delay to hear more from a company who's business practices you don't like and who's product may not meet your needs.

Apparently despite all that you're holding off. For some reason, not financial, not related to personal training, is holding you back. Of course maybe I'm wrong and you're already setting up your Avids or Premiere Pros."


That's an easy answer. Avid does not support the AJA Kona board today. We have 6 of them here along with a BMD 3D Extreme card.

If Avid did support the AJA Kona board today, we would already have at least one copy of MC 5.5 in here to test out the workflow.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Craig Seeman
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 22, 2011 at 3:32:42 pm

[walter biscardi] "That's an easy answer. Avid does not support the AJA Kona board today. We have 6 of them here along with a BMD 3D Extreme card.

If Avid did support the AJA Kona board today, we would already have at least one copy of MC 5.5 in here to test out the workflow."


So maybe this is why competitors keep their development release time lines secret. Maybe this is also why Apple is willing to release a 1.0 product in June rather than a 2.0 product in December. If Avid knew Apple's timeline and guessed thousands if not millions would jump to them if the Kona board were supported, they may have prioritized support for that.

On Apple's side, they know there's going to be costs one way or another for people to jump. Their strategy was to make a presentation at an event (NAB) where they know those decisions are made. Their strategy is to get something out the door that's at least workable while they race to add the other features while their competitors race to support things to encourage the switch.

Apple was proactive in deciding when to shoot the starting gun. I suspect they timed it to their best advantage given the current circumstances. That's why I think they'll be up to speed by the end of the year. This is a relay race they plan on wining in stages. It explains the timing, the "secrecy" over what was/wasn't revealed, the different strategy than in the past.

We know very well they're watching the reactions online. They aren't going to fold up their post production tent and go away . . . nor will they settle for a "lesser" product. It's a strategic move with calculated risk/benefits.



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walter biscardi
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 11:48:41 am

[Craig Seeman] "On Apple's side, they know there's going to be costs one way or another for people to jump. Their strategy was to make a presentation at an event (NAB) where they know those decisions are made. Their strategy is to get something out the door that's at least workable while they race to add the other features while their competitors race to support things to encourage the switch."

We don't even know if FCP X will support hardware cards like the Kona and BMD cards. I have multiple meetings with folks at the show and the overall answer I got was "we don't know."

I did get the sense that the hardware manufacturers were talking much more about Avid than they ever did in the past. It appears Apple is going the "we're all the hardware and software you need" approach. After all they have ColorSync which will make all your monitors show color and interlacing perfectly now so why do you need those pesky external monitors and projectors to view your work? You can do it all with our laptop.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Andy Mees
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 11:57:26 am

Certainly the FCP X preview announced the integration of ColorSync into the app to enable color space managed workflow ... but I didn't see anything that suggested Color Sync now managed display of interlacing? Something else entirely surely.


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Chris Kenny
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 1:48:58 pm

[Andy Mees] "Certainly the FCP X preview announced the integration of ColorSync into the app to enable color space managed workflow ... but I didn't see anything that suggested Color Sync now managed display of interlacing? Something else entirely surely."

Display of interlaced material on progressive displays is a long-solved problem. See any non-CRT TV in the world. Or consider the fact that you could pop a DVD with interlaced video content into your Mac in 1999, and play it back without interlace artifacts with the DVD player app that shipped with Mac OS 8.5.

It's possible FCP X doesn't address this, but with a newly written engine, designed to exploit the power of modern graphics processors, it's more likely that it does. Perhaps not sufficiently to use for detecting issues with interlacing during QA, but sufficiently to cleanly display interlaced content while editing.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


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Andy Mees
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:02:30 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Display of interlaced material on progressive displays is a long-solved problem. See any non-CRT TV in the world ... etc etc "

Wasn't aware anyone was disputing that Chris. My post is in response to Walter who seems to be under the impression that ColorSync would be somehow responsible for handling this in FCP X.


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Chris Kenny
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 1:39:41 pm

[walter biscardi] "We don't even know if FCP X will support hardware cards like the Kona and BMD cards. I have multiple meetings with folks at the show and the overall answer I got was "we don't know." "

Hey, Apple didn't show Final Cut Pro exporting files. Maybe it can't export files! How will we deliver work?

Seriously, this level of paranoia about lack of support for basic features is entirely unjustified. Obviously it might take a little while for third party hardware to support the new release, but the idea that FCP X fundamentally doesn't support video output, which is what you seem to be suggesting, is completely crazy. You seem to have talked yourself into believing this is literally iMovie with a slightly rearranged interface and support for ProRes, for $299. Whatever it is, it's not that; the existence of such a product would make no sense.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:24:46 pm

I don't see a huge difference between how Apple runs things to ANY soft- or hardware developer. Some things are kept secret, sometimes you have "sneak previews" or "technology demos" - everyone does it so I don't see why people are all fired up about FCPX.

I'd love to try AVID MC 5.5 in our shop but their lack of hardware support makes that impossible. I'd love to start using Resolove in our shop, but the requirements of BM Videocards and nVidia GPU's makes it a much larger investment. Low and beyhold - the Resolve team has sorted half of my "issues" there with their new release. Can I still "trust" they will develop the product as I want? Nope, I never can and it's the same with all vendors. For now, when FCPX and possibly FCSX hits the AppStore all current FCP editors have options if the next and greatest from Apple comes as a dissapointment. Premier offers a very similar tool-set and most people using Photoshop / After Effects already owns their copy. Can we trust Adobe will keep up the race against the competition? Not at all, maybe AVID will revive in 2012 as the Final Cut off this milenium.

Use the current tools that goes your work done and don't worry to much about the future. At the moment I don't see that many "game chaining features" in AVID / PREMIER to seriously concider moving from FCP7. I also think Apple would be CRAZY to kill off it's current high-end userbase, given.. They do know how to make $ in the dinky-toy market for real and maybe their are happy to keep FCP as a "midranged" editor. Time will tell.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Andy Mees
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:46:22 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Use the current tools that goes your work done and don't worry to much about the future."

I'm sure thats a very laudable outlook Erik, but where's the fun in that ... especially in a forum intended (currently) for discussion of a "future" product? :-)


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Craig Seeman
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 4:04:41 pm

Speculation is fun.
Mental illness though should be treated.

Imaginations can run wild but if it's off the cliff it may land in a different territory.



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Andy Mees
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 4:16:16 pm

Well I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting young man. ;-) But I am certainly enjoying myself and don't intend to stop so long as all this speculation remains as entertaining as it has been so far. I'm not sure which I'm enjoying more, watching the headless chickens running amok, or the watching the self appointed arbiters of reason running around desperately trying to catch them. Wheee ... :-)


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Craig Seeman
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 5:40:02 pm

I like herding cats.
I also like that cats will tend to eat the headless chickens without much encouragement.



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Craig Seeman
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 4:01:05 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "I don't see a huge difference between how Apple runs things to ANY soft- or hardware developer. Some things are kept secret, sometimes you have "sneak previews" or "technology demos" - everyone does it so I don't see why people are all fired up about FCPX."

You are absolutely correct. It is standard practice and there are established business reasons for that practice which I've posted elsewhere and repeatedly in this forum.



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Dennis Radeke
Re: More Blogs on FCPX
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:08:45 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "Can we trust Adobe will keep up the race against the competition?"

No, you can count on us to lead. ;-) Sorry...couldn't resist.

To directly answer your question, I would point to Adobe being able to keep up and lead in the areas that most affect editors and content creators today.

In tapeless workflows, Adobe has had a leadership position for a number of years. Avid has worked to catch up and I think that's good for editors period. With FCP X, we do not know if their use of the word 'native' is in fact that, or just another spin at what FCP 7 calls native which is rewrapping or transcoding. The screenshot that people have talked about would lead some to conclude that the latter still holds true.

In integration with other apps, both Adobe and non-Adobe, again I think we've done well. Particularly the XML integration allows FCP users to drop in and out of Adobe if they so choose.

I could go on but the most important aspect of being able to confidently say, 'yes, Adobe will continue to innovate for the users' is that at NAB (when we announced CS5.5) we announced our intention to go to an bi-annual milestone release with a technology release on the in between years. What this means is that we're telling you we'll have CS6 in 2012 and presumably a .5 in 2013. I'm hoping to write a blog article on this in the near future to elaborate.

While I've probably went on rather too long, I hope this gives everyone the idea that Adobe is committed to the professional video space for the long haul and we'll continue to listen to our users to help determine our future improvements.

To that last point, we've maintained a public feature request site that we tally results quarterly. We discuss them and often implement many of them in the ensuing versions. Here's the link if you're ever interested - it applies for all Adobe products I think...

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform


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