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The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC

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Steve Connor
The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 8:35:55 pm

I haven't used Avid for quite a few years and I'm interested to see what the real differences are between the trim options between it and Avid.

Could someone who knows Avid very well enlighten me please?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Bill Davis
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 8:44:12 pm

Interested in why you think you'll get better advice here than in the Adobe or AVID forums?

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Steve Connor
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 9:10:09 pm

[Bill Davis] "nterested in why you think you'll get better advice here than in the Adobe or AVID forums?"

Because I think this forum has the best mix of Editors that work across different types of NLE, is that OK?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Bill Davis
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 9:52:28 pm

[Steve Connor] "Because I think this forum has the best mix of Editors that work across different types of NLE, is that OK?"

Look, I wasn't trying to push this. Just honestly curious why nearly 3 years after the launch, A board "branded" with the FCP-X moniker is still where people come for the serious NLE discussions - even those that SPECIFICALLY exclude FCP-X from the mix. It's kinda interesting. That's all.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Steve Connor
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 10:30:22 pm

[Bill Davis] "Just honestly curious why nearly 3 years after the launch, A board "branded" with the FCP-X moniker is still where people come for the serious NLE discussions - even those that SPECIFICALLY exclude FCP-X from the mix. It's kinda interesting. That's all.
"


Nothing interesting about that at all, despite the branding, this particular barn is an community of people whose opinions and experience I respect a lot, there's lots of discussion on here that isn't directly related to FCPX and it's a good place to ask questions.

Plus the fact I may have wanted to develop this discussion into a broader one about the shortcomings of FCPX in the Trimming department.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Craig Seeman
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 9, 2014 at 4:57:19 pm

... or in other words, FCPX is the NLE that all others are now compared to whether explicit or implicit. ;)

Can anyone imagine questions like this being posited on a Vegas or Edius forum?



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Andy Field
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 10:06:44 pm

[Bill Davis] "Interested in why you think you'll get better advice here than in the Adobe or AVID forums?"

Because the forum says FCPX or Not....not "we'll only tolerate FCP X comments" Forum

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Michael Hancock
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 10:34:23 pm

Just dove into Premiere Pro CC again to play with their trim mode a bit more before I typed this up, to make sure I was remembering everything correctly. Here's why I prefer Avid's trim mode to Premiere (and I may be wrong about how Premiere handles some of this - still getting really familiar with it).

1. Go to next edit/previous edit and enter trim mode in one keystroke. Avid has this function, I can't find it in Premiere. This is incredibly helpful when I'm stringing out a rough edit and want to start cleaning stuff up, or when I'm making J and L cuts. I can use the keyboard to activate the tracks I want, then use the keyboard to move up and down the timeline to select an edit point and activate trim mode in one keystroke to start tightening things up.

2. Activate trim mode, activate track with keyboard. In Avid, if I have V1 and A1 activated in the track panel and enter trim mode it will activate trim on V1 and A2. I can use the keyboard to activate track A2 and it will automatically add the trim to the nearest edit on that track (which is usually the edit I want). I tested this in Premiere and it doesn't honor new track activations with the keyboard. I edit with the keyboard as much as possible so I really miss this feature when using Premiere.

3. Select Trim A/B/AB via direct keystroke. In Avid I can map "Trim A Side", "Trim B Side", "Trim AB Sides" to the keyboard, so I enter trim mode and immediately choose what I want to do. I can't figure out how to do this in Premiere, directly. I can cycle the different trim modes, but I can't go directly to one via one keystroke. I hope I'm wrong on this one. I'd rather hit one keystroke than cycle 5 times just to trim B side of an edit.

4. This one is subjective and may not make sense, but I find selecting trim points in Avid to be much easier and more solid than in Premiere when using a mouse. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but in Premiere it feels like I have to click more than once to select a trim point if I'm not exactly in the right spot, whereas in Avid I can click generally close to the trim point and it immediately selects it. This makes setting up asymmetrical trims or multiple edit point trims much faster to set up in Avid.

Those are the top four things that I notice between Avid and Premiere when it comes to trimming, and for me it comes down to keyboard commands to quickly select what I want and responsiveness of the interface. Avid beats Premiere in these instances.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Dennis Radeke
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 8, 2014 at 12:32:10 pm

At a basic level, our goal was to go from 'worst to first.' Can't say that we've done that for all users but we've certainly heard from many Avid editors that our trimming is at least very decent for them. Like most things in our NLE world, it is almost always somewhat subjective to your way of working! That said, we support keyboard + mouse style trims, asymetric trims, multi-select trims, etc.



[Michael Hancock] "1. Go to next edit/previous edit and enter trim mode in one keystroke"

Up/Down arrow when in the trim mode.

[Michael Hancock] "2. Activate trim mode, activate track with keyboard."

"T" key will enter you into trim mode. Always encourage users to enter the keyboard shortcuts and type a word like 'trim' to look for available shortcuts

[Michael Hancock] "3. Select Trim A/B/AB via direct keystroke"

Honesty is the best policy - not sure what you mean by this one so will assume that we don't have it.

[Michael Hancock] "
4. This one is subjective and may not make sense, but I find selecting trim points in Avid to be much easier and more solid than in Premiere when using a mouse."


I agree on this one to a point. THis is the one preference in Premiere Pro that I would have different. If you go to preferences>trim and check the top box, I find the trimming modes to handle and switch the way you expect. My opinion but when I show most people they agree.

Hope this helps,
Dennis - Adobe guy


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Michael Hancock
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 8, 2014 at 1:47:32 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "Up/Down arrow when in the trim mode."

Sweet. Thanks. I'd still like to see the option to consolidate the two actions, so I can just hit (for example) Shift+S and it goes to the next edit on the selected track and enters trim mode at the same time. Seems minor, but the keystrokes add up throughout the day.


[Dennis Radeke] ""T" key will enter you into trim mode. Always encourage users to enter the keyboard shortcuts and type a word like 'trim' to look for available shortcuts"

I have this mapped to Shift+T, but that's not my complaint. My issue is that once you're in trim mode, toggling tracks selections on and off is ignored by trim mode. It doesn't select the nearest edit point on newly activated tracks for trimming. Example: Put media on V1 and V2 with cut points on top of each other. Activate just V1 and enter trim mode. It selects the edit on V1. Now toggle V2 on - nothing happens. It should select the edit on V2 since I'm in trim mode and have activated another track. Since it doesn't, I have to use the mouse to select the edit point, which is cumbersome. And if I have V1 activated, enter trim mode, then deactivate V1 (thereby having no tracks active) it should dump out of trim mode and remove the trim selection on the clips.


[Dennis Radeke] "Honesty is the best policy - not sure what you mean by this one so will assume that we don't have it."

My mistake on this one - you guys do have this option, kind of. It's "Select Nearest Edit as Trim In" and "Select Nearest Edit as Trim Out". It seems to default to yellow trim, which is good (I can't find a way to activate in directly to red trim with the keyboard). However, there's no shortcut option for "Select Nearest Edit as Roll Trim". If you use "Select nearest edit as Trim In" first, then want to roll trim you have to toggle through all the trim modes (or use the mouse). Lots of extra keystrokes.


[Dennis Radeke] " If you go to preferences>trim and check the top box, I find the trimming modes to handle and switch the way you expect. My opinion but when I show most people they agree."

I'll check this out. Thanks for pointing it out.

Premiere has come a long, long way in its trimming capabilities and it's getting really close. But these are the small but important things that keep me from putting it on the same level as Avid. Looking forward to seeing how you guys continue to advance it.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Jok Daniel
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 9, 2014 at 7:26:35 pm

Also: during trimming operations each track displays its own little "mini playhead", making it easy to see what's going on at a glance.


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Keith Hamm
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Nov 2, 2014 at 10:04:23 pm

One of the features I'm missing most from Avid, and my custom FCP setup, was JKL trimming WITHOUT entering trim mode. Maybe I'm missing something but in Premiere when you have A, B, or A/B trims selected in the timeline you can't use the trim many or JKL without being in trim mode. This is a bit annoying for quick and simple trims within the timeline. You can only trim with the mouse within the timeline which for many of us coming from other NLE's this is quite a design flaw.


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Oliver Peters
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 9:05:08 pm

With MC...

You can lasso a whole stack of edit points and simultaneously trim them all with one action - either using the trim window or simply dragging in the timeline. You can have single-sided-trims on a set of cuts, but they don't all have to be on the same side of the cut. The trim window permits trimming using JKL functions. The trim window will display 4 frames in slip & slide. The trim window can also display a 6-frame view for transitions - in/middle/out frame of the A & B sides of the transition. You can adjust pre/post-roll times in the trim window. The trim preview can be looped and you make adjustments on-the-fly.

The fast transition tool retains the last values entered. For example, if you did a custom 30-frame dissolve that started 12 frames before the cut, that value is remembered the next time you use the tool, until you change values. Like with FCP 7, you can select a range and apply a single transition to all the cuts within that range with one action.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Hancock
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 9:33:20 pm

In addition, if you do a particularly complicated trim (say asymmetrical trimming on multiple layers) and you go back to editing but need to make some further adjustments, you can ALT+TrimMode and it will remember your most recent trim setup. This alone can save a ton of time when you're fine tuning a complicated edit.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Chris Harlan
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 8, 2014 at 11:01:18 am

[Michael Hancock] "In addition, if you do a particularly complicated trim (say asymmetrical trimming on multiple layers) and you go back to editing but need to make some further adjustments, you can ALT+TrimMode and it will remember your most recent trim setup. This alone can save a ton of time when you're fine tuning a complicated edit.
"


Ah! Thanks. I didn't know that one. That's cool.


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Neil Goodman
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 9, 2014 at 12:18:16 am

[Michael Hancock] "In addition, if you do a particularly complicated trim (say asymmetrical trimming on multiple layers) and you go back to editing but need to make some further adjustments, you can ALT+TrimMode and it will remember your most recent trim setup. This alone can save a ton of time when you're fine tuning a complicated edit.
"


learn something new every day. Thanks for that !


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 9:57:28 pm

[Oliver Peters] "You can lasso a whole stack of edit points and simultaneously trim them all with one action -"

at the risk of exposing my serious level of ignorance - can't you do the same with an altdrag in ppro cc - in that it activates all the edit points for edit trimming stuff? at least for dragging and keyboard nudging? I randomly came across that using it the last two weeks - i couldn't think of anything intelligent to do with it, but I did repeat the action a few times. mess about with it a bit.


[Oliver Peters] "The trim window permits trimming using JKL functions. The trim window will display 4 frames in slip & slide."

I could be wrong again - but ppro cc more or less has this now right - the four up and dynamic jkl? again i poke at it with the monkey stick - but I'm sort of sure that lot is there now?

Also there is a thing - ppro cc has a feature i half adore - when you go to drag and vertically reset the video component of a VA clip - it does not bounce the audio component down the audio track as a mirror move like in FCP7 - presumably someone will tell me I could have always done that in 7, and I'm a moron, but well, if there was, I never knew... but PPro views a drag vertical reordering of video as its own thing. its nice.

there is something of a halfway house to X i find in the way ppro treats audio as a lozenge in its world, and video as a lozenge in its world. ppro does seem to view them as two kingdoms.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Shields
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 7, 2014 at 10:46:04 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "[Oliver Peters] "You can lasso a whole stack of edit points and simultaneously trim them all with one action -"

at the risk of exposing my serious level of ignorance - can't you do the same with an altdrag in ppro cc - in that it activates all the edit points for edit trimming stuff? at least for dragging and keyboard nudging? I randomly came across that using it the last two weeks - i couldn't think of anything intelligent to do with it, but I did repeat the action a few times. mess about with it a bit.


[Oliver Peters] "The trim window permits trimming using JKL functions. The trim window will display 4 frames in slip & slide."

I could be wrong again - but ppro cc more or less has this now right - the four up and dynamic jkl? again i poke at it with the monkey stick - but I'm sort of sure that lot is there now?"


Yep. You can do that in PP CC



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Oliver Peters
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 8, 2014 at 2:38:19 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "can't you do the same with an altdrag in ppro cc - in that it activates all the edit points for edit trimming stuff?"

No. At least not like in MC. With MC if you drag the mouse from the blank space above a track and lasso around a stack of cut points, you are switched into the trim mode and these cut points are activated. In Premiere it selects the clips you've touched, but doesn't place you into a trim function.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "but ppro cc more or less has this now right - the four up and dynamic jkl?"

Yes. Correct.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Also there is a thing - ppro cc has a feature i half adore - when you go to drag and vertically reset the video component of a VA clip"

If I understand you correctly, that was copied from FCP 7. Option+arrow up. Just disable linking. MC can also do this, though not in as simple of a way.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 10, 2014 at 7:56:26 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Mar 10, 2014 at 7:58:01 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Aindreas Gallagher] "can't you do the same with an altdrag in ppro cc - in that it activates all the edit points for edit trimming stuff?"

No. At least not like in MC. With MC if you drag the mouse from the blank space above a track and lasso around a stack of cut points, you are switched into the trim mode and these cut points are activated. In Premiere it selects the clips you've touched, but doesn't place you into a trim function."


I think Aindreas may have meant cmd+drag... ctrl+drag on the PC selects all edit points and activates the trim window... press "t" to toggle between that and the program monitor while keeping the edit points active. :-)

EDIT: I assume it works the same way on the Mac version.

Shawn



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Bret Williams
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 8, 2014 at 5:13:51 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Also there is a thing - ppro cc has a feature i half adore - when you go to drag and vertically reset the video component of a VA clip - it does not bounce the audio component down the audio track as a mirror move like in FCP7 - presumably someone will tell me I could have always done that in 7, and I'm a moron, but well, if there was, I never knew... but PPro views a drag vertical reordering of video as its own thing. its nice."

Just option click and drag. Premiere uses a modifier to do the reverse if I remember correctly. But you're right. It's better that it's the default in Premiere the way it is. When I'm moving the video up for compositings sake, why would I want the audio to move down? Always thought that was the annoying default.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 9, 2014 at 5:22:08 pm

you'd think I would have option dragged footage in 7 once in the last thirteen years stabbing at it like a monkey, but, well, apparently no. - bangs head gently on table - .

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Rich Rubasch
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 10, 2014 at 12:38:10 am

I loved the memory on trim amounts. Trim plus 2, then just hit return over and over and get two more each time. Miss that one.

Lots about Avid I miss. Will see what they have to say at NAB.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 10, 2014 at 12:49:03 am

One of the things Avid has done very well - and in ways much better than any other NLE - is those types of invisible functions. For example, where the cursor goes after you complete an action. Or the fact the numeric values are stored. Advance +2:00 and hit enter. The next time you hit enter, it uses this stored value. Or transition values, like a custom 27-frame dissolve that starts 5 frames before the cut. The next dissolve you apply, those values are held.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: The differences between trimming in Avid and Premiere Pro CC
on Mar 10, 2014 at 9:19:34 pm

Yes....The Invisibles. Wasn't that a movie? Well, if it was it was edited on an AVID.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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