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OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees

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Patrick Murphy
OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 1:46:49 am

Just for yuks. Here are the Oscar nominee's for "film" editing.

American Hustle - Mark Sanger
Captain Philips - Christopher Rouse
12 Years a Slave - Joe Walker
Dallas Buyer's Club - Mark Pensa
American Hustle - Crispin Struthers, Alan Baumgarten and Jay Cassidy

Any idea on what software they used? Are they all on Avid? Is this a stupid question?



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Shane Ross
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 2:01:31 am

Does it matter? The edit software used isn't what made the films great, nor what made the editing great.

But all used Avid. Wolf of Wall Street also incorporated Lightworks.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 2:33:11 am

WoWS was EDITED on Lightworks by Thelma Schoonmaker. She's always been cutting on Lightworks (after film). Avid systems were used by the assistants for media exchange with other departments. For all the rest, it was Media Composer all the way.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 2:47:27 am

Features, serial TV, Longtime editors with years of experience in drama -- Avid is still the gold standard, in part do to sheer inertia. But FCP 7 won a few years ago, "No Country for Old Men." In a few years, it may all be different. As for this forum, FCPX or not ... Why not? It should be in your toolkit. It's easy to learn and it's fun to use.

Doug D


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 2:50:09 am

Also all of the last few Fincher films were cut on FCP 7. This includes several Best Editing Oscars.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 3:24:25 am

Oops, sorry, Oliver. "FCPX is fun to use" ... I should say, "Unless you're using WAV files and OSX 10.9.2

Doug D


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 3:34:31 am

LOL

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 3:05:48 am

I know Chris Rouse. He cuts on an Avid. My guess is, its all Avid.


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 3:10:18 am

That's the case for the editing nominees. Some of the other films have a smattering of other choices. "Inside LLewyn Davis" was FCP7. Documentaries and foreign films are also an unknown. In the past, there were years where every doc nominee had been cut on FCP.

Olivet

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 3:21:46 am

[Oliver Peters] "That's the case for the editing nominees. Some of the other films have a smattering of other choices. "Inside LLewyn Davis" was FCP7. Documentaries and foreign films are also an unknown. In the past, there were years where every doc nominee had been cut on FCP."

Oh, I know. I was just speaking to what little I know about the editing Noms.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 3:22:21 am

Best Supporting Actress actually thanked her editor, Joe Walker. Cool!

Doug D


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 3:50:12 am

Steve Hullfish's interview with the "Gravity" editor.

http://provideocoalition.com/shullfish/story/gravity-co-editor-and-oscar-no...

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Rich Rubasch
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 6:19:45 pm

I believe that the AVID code for their editing software is the best, smartest and most comprehensive code ever written for non-linear editing. At the time FinalCut Pro came out, the only reason it won the battle (in many ways) was cost. We forgave its shortcomings, like media management etc. AVID was a tool you could trust to handle the numbers correctly.

I am not saying it was perfect, but to me it still stands as the best code ever written for our industry.

Bold statements, I know, but it is second to none in its robustness and solid interface by which many have tried to copy.

Not surprised the pros to whom every nuance of the edit matters use AVID.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Shane Ross
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 7:17:21 pm

[Rich Rubasch] " At the time Final Cut Pro came out, the only reason it won the battle (in many ways) was cost."

It won the battle for many many reasons. Cost was a big part of it, yes, but the fact that the Adrenaline was a piece of crap was a major contributor. That's what made me switch. Adrenaline failed on almost every level for the projects I was working on.

But adding to this, was the fact that compositing shots in FCP is much easier than in Avid (Picture in Picture, 3D Warp...all behave very oddly, and take a long time to accomplish what I can do in seconds in FCP), moves on stills is easier in FCP, no need to rely on Moving Picture, (and now the unreliable PAN AND ZOOM). A lot of the shows I worked on, and still do, incorporate a lot of stills, require a lot of compositing to be done by the editor in the Avid application.

FCP answered a lot of post needs I had...far better than Avid did.

Avid still has the most robust media management..hands down. Which is why we put up with it. But man, I had to do layering of stills and a background just last week, and it took me 2 hours to do. Something I could mimic in FCP in 10 minutes.

As a straight cutter, I love it. When it comes to doing FX inside of it...oy! And what about plugins/filters? They are very few, some are very hard to use, or they are astronomically expensive. Sapphire, the best set hands down, costs nearly THREE TIMES the cost of the Avid software itself! Unjustifiable, if you ask me.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Scott Witthaus
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 7:23:18 pm

I am with you Shane. Great post.

Even straight cutting is way slower in Avid than it was is 7 and now especially compared to X. Love Avid for some things, but as the competition gets better, faster and, yes, cheaper, I find myself using it less and less. Maybe one or two jobs in 2013.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Shane Ross
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 7:26:17 pm

I use Avid in a multiple-editor enviroment. 3-6 editors working on one show at a time...sharing the media. Plus, we are in an offline/online workflow, as we have hundreds of hours of footage in each project. If we did this with any other NLE...it would fail miserably. Even FCP 7 would task this workflow...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Scott Witthaus
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 3, 2014 at 10:05:13 pm

Yup. That's Avid's sweet spot.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 4, 2014 at 4:04:45 am

So, while all the Oscar 2014 nominee movies were cut on Avid, and probably all the top 20 features might have also been cut on Avid. Why, even a majority of the 100+ feature films made in the USA were probably cut on Avid.
Add to that, hundreds of TV shows get cut on Avid too.

Sadly though, that's probably about all that Avid is being used for. There's a huge universe outside of feature film and prime time TV in the USA. And, of course, there are a few countries and quite a few people living outside the USA.

In that larger universe, Avid is a sort of a minority, niche platform.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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Trevor Asquerthian
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 4, 2014 at 7:04:58 am

Not sure that's true - in UK now all my freelance work is Avid (was up to 50% FCP7 for a while). Doing Paralympics on avid, did Olympics on Avid, will be doing French Open & World Cup on avid (although host are adobe for that, which is interesting).

MC software is the loss leader but is essential to their continued existence.

ISIS/Interplay/Airspeed all strong products now. Used Artist Control to live mix segments - made me want to buy one. If I was stock-savvy I'd be buying Avid, there are a lot of older installations around the world that will need to pony up for upgrades in the coming years...



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Scott Witthaus
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 4, 2014 at 10:51:27 am

[Neil Sadwelkar] "In that larger universe, Avid is a sort of a minority, niche platform."

Yup. The fact Avid cuts features and reality TV (among broadcast) means nothing to most people. Avid has not been able to communicate who they are (even Hernandez admits that) and WHY new editors should choose Avid. The fact that Honey Boo-Boo was cut on an Avid means nothing to that "why" (that's a fact that would move me to use another platform immediately!).

Look at Avid Everywhere. Aimed solely at big broadcast, and Louis Hernandez stated that AE is Avid's vision and centerpiece going forward. MC and PT will be "key parts" of the Avid Everywhere solution. Loss-leader is a correct term. The company will never make money selling one-off MC seats to freelancers like me or small shops. They need big-iron to big clients. MC is a way to sell that big iron. And honestly I think Avid is making the correct moves, albeit very late, with Avid Everywhere.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Chris Harlan
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 4, 2014 at 5:25:15 am

Yeah, ditto man.


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 4, 2014 at 5:29:30 pm

Based on Avid's press release, it appears that "Dallas Buyers Club" was not cut on Media Composer. No idea what was used, though. Probably FCP 7 or Lightworks, but I'm just guessing.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jok Daniel
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 4, 2014 at 11:21:18 pm

Horses for courses. Personally I think that Avid has an undeservedly bad reputation when it comes to effects. AniMatte, Paint, 3d Warp, SpectraMatte and the tracking tools are all very useful, and way more sophisticated than any of the stock FCP7 effects (8-point garbage matte anyone?)

For the kind of work which is the subject of this thread - creative offline editorial - Avid is still a perfect fit IMHO. For all the hype about Premiere and FCP, they still suck at basic editing tasks such as trimming. I suspect that is the real reason Hollywood editors prefer Avid (and, to a lesser extent, Lightworks).


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Andrew Kimery
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 5, 2014 at 12:18:00 am

[Jok Daniel] "Horses for courses. Personally I think that Avid has an undeservedly bad reputation when it comes to effects. AniMatte, Paint, 3d Warp, SpectraMatte and the tracking tools are all very useful, and way more sophisticated than any of the stock FCP7 effects (8-point garbage matte anyone?)
"


Avid does have some very good stock FX but the application and manipulation of those FX (nesting, the FX editor, etc.,) is so cumbersome though.


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Steve Connor
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 5, 2014 at 9:36:59 am

[Jok Daniel] " they still suck at basic editing tasks such as trimming."

I'd say Premiere Pro CC is pretty close to Avid in trimming functions

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Jok Daniel
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 5, 2014 at 5:45:39 pm

[Steve Connor] "I'd say Premiere Pro CC is pretty close to Avid in trimming functions"

Yes, functionally they are pretty close. Premiere may even be more capable in some specific scenarios. But operationally Avid is still far ahead IMO. MC makes it much easier to set up a complex trim (e.g. by lassoing multiple edit points), and the live feedback on the timeline is far superior. It also makes it easier to control which trim point to monitor. Trimming in MC is a joy. In Premiere, it still feels like a chore to me.

Having said that, I'm thrilled to see Adobe making an effort in this area, and I hope they continue to improve their "editing finesse" features. As an offline guy these are the features that really matter to me, and as far as I'm concerned, Legacy's heyday were the Dark Ages for this kind of stuff.


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David Lawrence
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 5, 2014 at 8:36:03 pm

[Steve Connor] "I'd say Premiere Pro CC is pretty close to Avid in trimming functions"

I'd agree.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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Jimmy Holcomb
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 5, 2014 at 5:26:01 pm

FYI,

Here is a query for all FCP at shotonwhat.com. It is a newish database, hopefully it will grow.

http://shotonwhat.com/editing_system/final-cut-pro-editing


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 5, 2014 at 6:00:29 pm

[Jimmy Holcomb] "Here is a query for all FCP at shotonwhat.com"

I would take that with a grain of salt. A lot are correct, but some are incorrect, like "Bourne Ultimatum", which was cut on Media Composer. I'm sure, though, that there are other films which aren't on the list. Interesting resource. Thanks.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Lawrence
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 5, 2014 at 8:52:02 pm

I have word direct from the supervising editor that the Oscar-winning documentary, 20 Feet From Stardom was cut on Final Cut Pro 7.

Apparently there was an early push for Avid, but to avoid purchasing more Avid seats, they stayed with Final Cut Pro.

FCP7 works fine in Mavericks and on the new Mac Pro and is still heavily used in the doc world. Going on three years since EOL, it's still very much alive and kicking.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


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Jok Daniel
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 6, 2014 at 8:36:13 am

[David Lawrence] "FCP7 works fine in Mavericks and on the new Mac Pro and is still heavily used in the doc world."

This is really baffling to me. Why would anyone want to use FCP7 for long form documentaries? What are its key strengths in this area? Out of the main contenders, it just seems like the worst possible choice for this kind of work. What am I missing?


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Shane Ross
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 6, 2014 at 8:56:24 am

[Jok Daniel] "Why would anyone want to use FCP7 for long form documentaries?"

Because it works...very well.

[Jok Daniel] "What are its key strengths in this area?"

Moves on stills in the timeline, without the use of crappy third party apps like Moving Picture, or effects that are lacking like Pan & Zoom.

Ability to composite shots easily, quickly. Avid drags, and is very convoluted in how you accomplish this. What I can do in 10 min in FCP takes me an hour in Avid MC.

Smooth workflow with many tapeless formats, including solid offline/online workflows.

I can have more than 24 audio tracks. When you need to foly audio as many stock footage companies sell footage without audio, this helps. I've used up to 48 tracks of audio...a battle recreation scene.

Smooth color correction integration with Apple Color.

Countless small workflow nuggets that help speed things along.

BUT...mixed frame rates in FCP 7 stinks. Better by far in Adobe and Avid.

[Jok Daniel] "Out of the main contenders, it just seems like the worst possible choice for this kind of work. What am I missing?"

Missing the fact that many many of us made this work, and well. FCP saw heavy use in reality and documentary projects...so much so that Avid was losing a lot of footing in this area. FCP took over nearly half of that market. But with it now DOA, many companies are shifting back to Avid, or switching to Adobe.

Ugh...I miss it.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 6, 2014 at 1:29:31 pm

I agree with Shane's assessments. Having done quite a few doc-style long-form projects in FCP 3-7, it's still my preferred NLE. However, X has some very inviting advantages for organization.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: OT: Edit Software of Oscar Nominees
on Mar 6, 2014 at 4:08:24 pm

Don't forget price. Docs usually have tighter budgets and that's a big reason FCP originally became so popular in that genre. David's post even mentions the production didn't want to buy more Avid seats so they stuck w/FCP7.


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