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what are you hearing these days?

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Pam Picard
what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 3:32:06 pm

I just thought it might be interesting to do a checkpoint and see what people are hearing re: FCPX in the production world.

I myself hear a mix, many people (especially longtime editors that I have worked with for years in broadcast) are still not making the switch. These folks are now on Premiere mostly, or sticking to 7.

Agency/editing shops/indep editors are more interested and seem to making the switch (although I'd say just in the past year or so).

Curious what others might be hearing in the marketplace.


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TImothy Auld
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 3:46:52 pm

What I hear from people who use it consistently is that it's best at present for short form jobs with a fast turnaround. I don't know anyone who uses it on every job though.

Tim


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Brian Mulligan
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 4:18:15 pm

Apparently.. Final Cut Pro is now Professional.
See the twitter pic.

https://twitter.com/Jonny_Hallam/status/438287909733801984/photo/1

Brian Mulligan
Senior Editor - Autodesk Smoke
WTHR-TV Indianapolis,IN, USA
Twitter: @bkmeditor


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Bernard Newnham
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 6:01:21 pm

The BBC buys everything (nearly) at some point - it's a huge and disparate place, with lots of styles and outlets. I can't see them mainlining on X though - it's difficult enough to get people trained on traditional stuff, let alone putting something completely non-standard into the system. But I guarantee someone on the BBC staff will be using it.

B

Bernie


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Chris Harlan
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 26, 2014 at 2:52:38 am

That's hilarious! FCPXpro! I love it!


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Richard Herd
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 4:47:16 pm

[TImothy Auld] "it's best at present for short form jobs with a fast turnaround."

What does that actually mean? I don't think it's true, in the sense that X is only suitable for short form. It's true that folks are presently using for those projects because the risk is low and it's a good place to enter and familiarize oneself with the workflow peculiarities.

A guy who posts here frequently, Tony, is using it for the opposite project (long form with a long turnaround) -- a documentary. I'm inclined to agree with Tony (that) (my paraphrase) the keyword features are the most powerful organizing feature around.

X gets through the organizing process really fast, definitely faster than CS6 Premiere Pro (which has two major flaws: (1) subclips are not slipable -- can do in CC; (2) cannot toggle between native mode and library mode -- can do in CC).


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TImothy Auld
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 9:43:36 pm

Exactly what it means is exactly what I said. This is what people I know who use X consistently are telling me.

Tim


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tony west
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 10:29:16 pm

[Richard Herd] "X gets through the organizing process really fast"

Indeed Richard,

I am loving the organization of X for my doc work. I group subjects into folders and drag them in and let it tag them all.

To me, the bigger the project is (more elements to keep track of) the more I'm drawn to X

But with the doc, I'm also constantly moving huge chunks around the timeline as I discover new things.

That timeline is perfect for that.

In my town the CBS, NBC and PBS affiliates are all using X in some fashion. I see a couple of post houses that have gone Pr and one I know of that uses X and Pr


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Scott Witthaus
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 6:36:32 pm

[Pam Picard] "Agency/editing shops/indep editors are more interested and seem to making the switch (although I'd say just in the past year or so)."

I see this happening. So many people focus on broadcast and film as it's the only thing out there. There is a big world of visual storytelling outside those markets. A lot bigger world.

I see corporate, agencies (just finished introducing FCPX to a very large agency in my region. This is my fourth class of about 15 people each) and schools (I teach upwards of 90 grad students a year on FCPX) giving the software a try. One man shops like me are using it more and more and this could eventually get post houses to at least add a system or two to capture some of that potential revenue. Apple has the time and resources to make the product really good and not have to rush anything.

Quite honestly, I dont think Apple was counting on the "older" entrenched editor crowd making a huge switch. They are playing for the future. MHO.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 7:36:24 pm

[Pam Picard] "Agency/editing shops/indep editors are more interested and seem to making the switch (although I'd say just in the past year or so)."

same old line, but there is still absolutely zero in London. I get around a fair bit, and I periodically ask most people I know. Most shops are standardising on premiere cc. (CNN, SKY, Hogarth, pile of other places) - If premiere actually supplants all the historical 7 seats across corporate and broadcast, pretty soon there won't be much of a place left for X to go?

As an aside - I just got my first paid gig on premiere CC. To be fair - it really is lovely: sliding your finger up on the magic mouse to expand VA tracks is honestly something of a little dream.
And that timeline will eat literally anything. I think if I tossed a beta SP tape physically at the imac, Premiere would try and get it on the timeline.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Lance Bachelder
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 8:02:00 pm

Nice to hear that, even with your highly publicized distain for Adobe's subscription only model, that you're open-minded enough to try the software. I agree that CC is really nice, not perfect by any means, but I've used it on every paid gig I've had since last June release and find it to be the current NLE champ by far.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 8:33:10 pm

to be fair Lance, coming from 7 and using AE since version 4 - PPro CC is utterly delicious editing software. for my limited palette anyway.

I posted this on the other place on getting to use it on the current gig - I'm sitting on PPro 6 and legend until adobe make the pull to CC beyond bearable:

-

So I took a dip in the dark side on a job. Water was indescribably nice. I want premiere pro CC something rotten. Expanding VA tracks by simply running your finger up the magic mouse is a little bit erotic frankly.

Did all the things I can't do in 6 - turned on canvas edit indicators, got the marker notes onto the canvas (as well as the minted extended marker notes above the timeline we've had since AE forever), stared at the marker panel with all my notes ready to click on, turned on through edit indicators just to stare at them, played around on the timeline, really really really liked the timeline, started cutting on the timeline, really liked cutting on the timeline, pretended to be important doing dynamic trimming, generally admired all that finesse stuff they did, cut down IVs on the timeline, pancaked the timelines with the IV selects as source above the assembly using that sweet sweet adobe GUI to arrange them like two neat bricks on top of each other.

Oh Sigh. - Oh it is so so very sweeet.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Lance Bachelder
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 9:35:26 pm

Concur. I don't like the subscription-only model either, but because they've improved CC (PPro 7) so much over 6 (which I did not like or use) I can tolerate the monthly rental and chalk it up to cost of doing business... for now.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Steve Connor
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 9:57:43 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Expanding VA tracks by simply running your finger up the magic mouse is a little bit erotic frankly.
"


Didn't know that one - very cool!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 10:24:49 pm

that timeline is mad delicious at first blush. even the lovely just so semi-transparent coloured gui on the new dissolves.
It's a better FCP7 dissolve - even just given you can slide it asymmetric. The amount of new overlay display control on the canvas itself is madness.
I played with that for ages. you get type size controls for god's sake.

I also didn't go using the provided 7 shortcuts. A guy in one of the places testing it for anywhere told me that's not a great idea. fine - but not a great idea.
command K to cut said he. V is move and all that. backslash to zoom to timeline. tilde to explode the panel - which is just so nice.
apparently the premiere team is currently one of the largest running in adobe. you'd actually sort of completely believe it.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Harlan
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 26, 2014 at 2:55:26 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Expanding VA tracks by simply running your finger up the magic mouse is a little bit erotic frankly.
"


Yeah, I like that too.


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David Lawrence
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 26, 2014 at 3:15:10 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Expanding VA tracks by simply running your finger up the magic mouse is a little bit erotic frankly."

It also works with a scroll wheel!

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
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Steve Connor
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 9:00:23 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "As an aside - I just got my first paid gig on premiere CC. To be fair - it really is lovely: sliding your finger up on the magic mouse to expand VA tracks is honestly something of a little dream.
And that timeline will eat literally anything. I think if I tossed a beta SP tape physically at the imac, Premiere would try and get it on the timeline.
"


You're going to cave in soon Aindreas, Shantanu and the entire management team are just waiting for you personally to sign up, then they'll know they've won!

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 10:03:52 pm

[Steve Connor] "Shantanu and the entire"

well, particularly in the other place, we're in a sweet bubble with the fifteen of us partaking.
Narayen is wafting above the clouds.
considering some of the stuff said about him in different places, if he even suspected the like of us existed...

so let's all enjoy enjoy how staggeringly disingenuous he is again - and what we can all look forward to in terms of pricing, and his insanely voracious appetites to consume his customer's entire wallets. Good luck if you're outside the states: adobe will likely actually eat the wallet leather.







so, kindly set aside some money for your childrens welfare - because once he stabilises the subscription in 2016, the money maw will open -
and it will never, ever, ever close.


shantanyu is coming for all, I mean really all the available delicious money. And seriously kids - he wants all of it. and he has you on subscription.

so lets all enjoy that concept.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Harlan
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 26, 2014 at 2:57:38 am
Last Edited By Chris Harlan on Feb 26, 2014 at 2:58:26 am

[Steve Connor] "You're going to cave in soon Aindreas, Shantanu and the entire management team are just waiting for you personally to sign up, then they'll know they've won!
"


So Aindreas is sort of like Netflix in the Net Neutrality fight?

Or is that joke too sates-side for your consideration.


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David Mathis
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 9:31:45 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "As an aside - I just got my first paid gig on premiere CC. To be fair - it really is lovely: sliding your finger up on the magic mouse to expand VA tracks is honestly something of a little dream.
And that timeline will eat literally anything. I think if I tossed a beta SP tape physically at the imac, Premiere would try and get it on the timeline."


I am thinking about jumping in with both feet but not head first. Not sure how deep the water is or if there is a huge rock for me to get injured on. Besides the undercurrent I am not sure what might be in the water.

Looks like we have arrived at "The Twilight Zone" kids!


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Shawn Miller
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 10:46:48 pm

The bigger post houses in my town seem to be going Avid or Premiere. Almost all of the corporate folks I know are Premiere Pro, but most of them have always been PPro. A few of the agency folks I know are also switching from FCP to Premiere. When I ask why, most people say that they're going Adobe because of the integration between AE, PPro, Audition and Photoshop.

Shawn



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Chris Kenny
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 26, 2014 at 8:33:59 am

[Pam Picard] "Curious what others might be hearing in the marketplace."

As a post house providing dailies/color/deliverables, we get to see what a lot of different projects — mostly indie features — are using.

It's still almost all Avid and FCP 7. We've seen a couple of short-form projects use Premiere, but no features, nobody even really asking us about it. No features cut in FCP X yet either, although I believe we might have one on the calendar, and people ask us about it every now and then.

For projects edited internally FCP X is now our app of choice. Media Composer and FCP 7 feel archaic. Premiere feels clunky, and the CC licensing model makes it pricey enough that we don't have it on most systems. We've also started using FCP X for prepping deliverables (combining rendered reels out of Resolve with audio to output master files to lay back to tape, etc.). It has some features that make it great for this (e.g. audio roles), it's fast, and I can just set up one output after the next and hit export thanks to its background exporting.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 27, 2014 at 4:26:38 pm

[Chris Kenny] "We've seen a couple of short-form projects use Premiere, but no features, nobody even really asking us about it. No features cut in FCP X yet either"

Well, there are plenty being done. We did some stories from last years Sundance and we know quite a few for SXSW. As for major features, we've spoken about what we can say, but most people know that there are major features getting behind Premiere Pro.

It's an interesting time as we see different approaches vetted out in the marketplace. I think there is room for all.

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Ben Mullins
Re: what are you hearing these days?
on Feb 26, 2014 at 9:20:06 am

I use PPro CC, MC7, and a little bit of X. They all have their upsides (love Keywords in X) and I can happily use any of them, however Premiere is definitely my favourite. If Adobe hadn't jumped us all in the showers with their CC agenda I think there would be a lot more support for it because as an app it really is excellent. That said I think it's important to distinguish between the two groups of people who need to choose their NLE - individual editors and post houses. As an individual editor I think now more than ever it's important to know all 3 mentioned above as this will increase the number of jobs you are able to accept or apply for. If someone offers you work and you have to turn it down because you can't use the software then you're needlessly limiting yourself. Plus by knowing these main 3 NLE's you're hedging your bets in terms of which (if any) will eventually conquer all and which will eventually EOL. Of course not everyone has the luxury of being able to learn more than one NLE, but I would highly recommend it if possible.

In terms of post houses and production companies etc. their choice gets a little more complicated as they often need to replace/add more software and hardware than individuals do, plus consider wider more complicated workflows, therefore any change becomes a larger investment. As an individual editor I can't comment too extensively on this but there are plenty of people on here who can. I think what you will tend to find is people trialing new software on their own time working on personal projects until they feel confident that they can use it to a professional standard.

Hope this helps,

Ben.



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