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Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...

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Daniel Peterson
Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 1:30:05 am

Hi all,

As the title suggests, I'm seeking some further input on a new website NLE survey I've created http://www.thedigitalslice.com/

Deciding what NLE to spend your time, money and resources on is a tough question and I'm hoping this will be a useful tool into the future as all results are publicly viewable (http://www.thedigitalslice.com/results), updated constantly and can also be filtered using the filters at the top of the results page... giving much more meaning to the data. I'm also planning to expand the site in the future as time and finances allow.

Thanks for any input!!!

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A new NLE survey, help me gather data!
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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Gary Huff
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 4:36:30 am

Wouldn't your time be better spent doing a project in each NLE you have available to you and then deciding which one you personally like best?

I fail to see how this survey translates into a "resource". I don't see, say, a Vegas user deciding to switch to Mac just to use FCPX because it has a high percentage on some web survey.


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Daniel Peterson
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 5:10:07 am

Hey Gary, good question, appreciate your thought.

So basically, the website is evolving (still in Beta) from my personal challenge of deciding what NLE to purchase and focus on... as the amount of time (I'm sure you can appreciate) spent mastering the software over the years is massive. I'm not sure everyone has the time or money to trial each NLE available, that would be the most ideal way, but its almost impossible to gain a good understanding of the software without using it over a longer period of time. I certainly didn't, and still don't have time to do that at this point.

The main challenge I found was that there are a myriad of opinions but lack of data, so if this gains some data and helps others gain more information about who uses what NLE's, than I believe it will be a helpful resource. Of course this survey can't, and never will, represent the complete picture, but the more people that submit info the more accurate it will become.

The aim is not to isolate one as better than the others, but give a better break down of who's using what, which is why the filters at the top are important... for example, independent filmmakers may prefer to use one software whereas Motion graphics artists may prefer to use another, knowing that info when making a decision about which NLE to focus on is very helpful, and I'm yet to see any similar data (though I'm sure it does exist somewhere).

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Daniel

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A new NLE survey, help me gather data!
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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Jason Porthouse
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 11:28:50 am

One thing - why the 2000 cutoff? I've been using Avid since '95 at least, so a bit arbitrary. Also why not have some subjective input too, and maybe a quesiotn asking what type of work you'd do on each NLE - for instance I have a definite preference for FCPX or 7 for short form work, and anything involving effects, but am less concerned with what platform I'm on if it's a traditional documentary. Then things become much more even in terms of pros and cons.

Without some sense of why editors like which NLE, or what genre they're working on, you're not getting any useful information IMHO. Only numbers, which are fairly meaningless.

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.



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Daniel Peterson
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 12:20:37 pm

Hey Jason,

Thanks for thoughts, glad you took some interest in the site. Will keep the 2000 limit in mind. Collecting subjectively entered data was part of my original plans, it isn't too hard to collect, but after some discussions became aware that collating and displaying it in the results is a bit of a challenge.

For the moment I've tried to keep it simple... constrained to the general fields that people work in (3D, cameraman/DOP, Editor, Independent filmmaker etc etc.) which I think still gives a good sense of the skill-set used or required. My understanding is that most people will be aiming in one of these general directions. Will keep all this in mind though as I am aware that there can be a lot of cross-over between professions... being a filmmaker, editor, motion graphic artist and amateur animator myself.

Cheers
Daniel

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A new NLE survey, help me gather data!
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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Gary Huff
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 1:11:44 pm

[Daniel Peterson] "So basically, the website is evolving (still in Beta) from my personal challenge of deciding what NLE to purchase and focus on... as the amount of time (I'm sure you can appreciate) spent mastering the software over the years is massive."

But really it's not. The amount of time that is heavy is learning a NLE for the very first time. After that, if you cannot easily translate your knowledge over to what is pretty similar across the board for all of them, then you're initial attempt did not actually lay a foundation, but instead was focused on the minutiae of a particular package.

It took me two projects, both short form, edited in FCPX for me to grasp it. It took me two because the version of FCPX at the time (either 10.0.5 or 10.0.6) wasn't up to the task for what I wanted to do (green frame bug was one killer). However, once 10.0.9 rolled out, and now (especially) 10.1, I am up and running and routinely switch back and fourth between FCPX and Premiere CC, with the only casualty being the V and A keyboard shortcuts that I occasionally get mixed up.

[Daniel Peterson] "The main challenge I found was that there are a myriad of opinions but lack of data,

Lack of data? Have you even looked into the subforums on here of different NLEs? Seems like some decent activity in most of them. Otherwise, all you're talking about is a simple poll result, which is hardly helpful.

[Daniel Peterson] so if this gains some data and helps others gain more information about who uses what NLE's, than I believe it will be a helpful resource."

Again, should this be a popularity constest? Let's say that most camera operators prefer FCPX. Is that reason enough for a camera operator to come to the site and say, "Hey, I need to buy FCPX!" even if, all things considered, they might rather work in Premiere?


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Daniel Peterson
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 1:56:43 pm

[Gary Huff] "But really it's not. The amount of time that is heavy is learning a NLE for the very first time. After that, if you cannot easily translate your knowledge over to what is pretty similar across the board for all of them, then you're initial attempt did not actually lay a foundation, but instead was focused on the minutiae of a particular package.
"


Haha, gee, you guys don't come across very positive, but still... appreciate the thoughts flying here.

I used the word 'mastering' here for a reason, I would be very impressed if you've mastered any NLE from 2 projects (unless of course they are feature length), happy to be wrong, but I'm sure others like me have spent a lot longer getting a real grasp and understanding of all the inner workings a NLE offers (Let alone linking in after effects or motion5, normally years of learning before you get ahead of the curve.)... happy to be wrong...

[Gary Huff] "Lack of data? Have you even looked into the subforums on here of different NLEs? Seems like some decent activity in most of them. Otherwise, all you're talking about is a simple poll result, which is hardly helpful."

I think you might have missed my point... I agree there is loads of valuable info buried in these forums (depending on the source, haha), but opinions are one thing and numbers are another. Forums serve a different purpose, compared to a survey, they're... 'a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.'...

[Gary Huff] "Again, should this be a popularity constest? Let's say that most camera operators prefer FCPX. Is that reason enough for a camera operator to come to the site and say, "Hey, I need to buy FCPX!" even if, all things considered, they might rather work in Premiere?"

Its more about discerning the trends... but if I was looking into becoming a camera operator, for me personally it would be very helpful to know that other camera operators prefer to use FCPX (if that is the case)... at the moment I can't see how having any extra insight into other peoples preferences can be a bad thing.

Like I said, appreciate the thoughts and will keep working on it taking all this into consideration.

Cheers
Daniel

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A new NLE survey, help me gather data!
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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Bret Williams
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 1:05:37 pm

Seriously? You'd think you'd know how to spell Premiere by now.


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Gary Huff
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 1:12:23 pm

[Bret Williams] "You'd think you'd know how to spell Premiere by now."

But the ads at the bottom of the page are ROCK-SOLID!


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Bret Williams
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 1:13:49 pm

I let him slide that the app is also called Final Cut PRO.


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Daniel Peterson
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 2:00:18 pm

[Bret Williams] "I let him slide that the app is also called Final Cut PRO."

Haha, thanks Bret :)

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A new NLE survey, help me gather data!
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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Daniel Peterson
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04:52 pm

[Gary Huff] "But the ads at the bottom of the page are ROCK-SOLID!"

Not compare to the ads on this page! Hahaha

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A new NLE survey, help me gather data!
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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Bret Williams
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 2:24:41 pm

This site gives out free information. Yours is asking for information. Just seems a little disingenuous and like link bait when you have ads.


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Daniel Peterson
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 25, 2014 at 2:54:16 pm

[Bret Williams] "This site gives out free information. Yours is asking for information. Just seems a little disingenuous and like link bait when you have ads."

Ah, sorry if it came across that way Bret. I was merely pointing out that most sites have ads. Truth be told... I was told by a friend that a site without a 'business plan' is probably a waste of time...I see his point, but the survey is the focus, which is why the ads are at the bottom....

the free information is here... http://www.thedigitalslice.com/results

...or alternatively someone could pay $6K to buy these other results... http://www.reportlinker.com/p01056004-summary/Analysis-of-the-Global-Video-...

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A new NLE survey, help me gather data!
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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Gary Huff
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 26, 2014 at 2:53:11 am

[Daniel Peterson] "Truth be told... I was told by a friend that a site without a 'business plan' is probably a waste of time"

I believe any attempt to start a business from a simple poll result is a waste of time.


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Daniel Peterson
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 26, 2014 at 3:56:37 am

[Gary Huff] "[Daniel Peterson] "Truth be told... I was told by a friend that a site without a 'business plan' is probably a waste of time"

I believe any attempt to start a business from a simple poll result is a waste of time."


Haha Gary, thankfully my plan is not to start a business from a simple poll (but seriously why bother with the taunting?)
To make things clear, I'm already running a full time business in film, motion graphics and vfx. I love it and look forward to the projects I have lined up for the year. This is a small part of a few side-projects I finally decided to try (rather than not try). In the end I respect your opinion and think your simplest solution is to ignore the site and move on.

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A new NLE survey, help me gather data!
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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Jason Porthouse
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 26, 2014 at 5:18:29 pm

TBH ignoring it and moving on is probably good advice. But one thing - don't come asking for feedback then get snarky when the feedback isn't what you'd like...

I for one would value real-world testimony from editors as to how they best use the tools at their disposal. Really all NLEs are pretty capable, and affordable to most pro editors nowadays - so it's not the $100K question it was ten years ago, where buying in to the 'wrong' system would cost you dearly. Now it's more nuanced that that, and not one tool is right for all people - jobs, even - so some more touchy-feely stuff would paint a far more valuable picture.

Oh and one other thing - re the whole ad stuff - you've collected data from respondents (email) in order to see the results - why did you need to do that? Does smack a little of address harvesting, and may make people suspicious. Not an accusation, just a nod to the perception of users and how that might impact on results...

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.



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Daniel Peterson
Re: Seeking further input on a personal NLE website project...
on Feb 27, 2014 at 1:48:40 am

Hey Jason, appreciate the thoughts...

[Jason Porthouse] "TBH ignoring it and moving on is probably good advice. But one thing - don't come asking for feedback then get snarky when the feedback isn't what you'd like..."

I do appreciate feedback and was not meaning to be snarky (I guess that's always the problem with forums, emails etc.. it's hard to convey tone)

[Jason Porthouse] "I for one would value real-world testimony from editors as to how they best use the tools at their disposal. Really all NLEs are pretty capable, and affordable to most pro editors nowadays - so it's not the $100K question it was ten years ago, where buying in to the 'wrong' system would cost you dearly. Now it's more nuanced that that, and not one tool is right for all people - jobs, even - so some more touchy-feely stuff would paint a far more valuable picture. "

This is a good point, and I fully agree, having real world examples is very valuable and was actually part of my original plans, but time got the better of me. So I started with the simpler path of a survey.

[Jason Porthouse] "Oh and one other thing - re the whole ad stuff - you've collected data from respondents (email) in order to see the results - why did you need to do that? Does smack a little of address harvesting, and may make people suspicious. Not an accusation, just a nod to the perception of users and how that might impact on results..."

Thanks for this feedback, I need to clarify this... the results are publicly available for viewing regardless of whether or not you've done the survey http://www.thedigitalslice.com/results You have the option to opt-in to an email newsletter or update that I may send in the future, user's have a choice to tick the box or not, I can assure you there is no 'address harvesting'... I'll try work out a way to make this clearer on the site.

Cheers
Daniel

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta) - A NLE survey.
http://www.SaltMedia.net


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