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FCPX user interface responsiveness

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Aindreas Gallagher
FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 18, 2014 at 9:34:11 pm

Some people have mentioned it can be an issue, but this seems pretty stark.

https://vimeo.com/86859858

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Charlie Austin
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 18, 2014 at 10:06:59 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Feb 19, 2014 at 10:57:40 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Some people have mentioned it can be an issue, but this seems pretty stark."

It seems so... And I'm seeing it too, though not as badly as the video example, on my work system. Oddly, on my little macbook air at home, it runs ridiculously responsively. Admittedly, not the same type of project, but it's like night and day.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 18, 2014 at 10:44:42 pm

My test is working on native HDV footage, and occasionally some AVCHD.

I don't optimize because of the time and the storage demands, since this is documentary and I immediately throw out 90% of the material, looking for the "moments." THEN the selects can be optimized, proxy etc.

So working with the raw Long GOP is a good test. MBPr 13", i7, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD -- in other words, their max package on the little laptop. Should be similar to your Air I think.

Thing rips along fine on single timeline, up to 30% connected clips and all audio detached, double-tracked, EQ effects added. Even with titles over the top, a little slow to render but then moves just fine.

But put just TWO of those clips in a multi cam and try to work, it all falls apart. Convert over to proxy, and it it's fine again.

The SSD working with external drive (2TB or 4TB RAID, FW-via-TBolt adapter) seems to make a big difference, as this is already better performance than my theoretically faster 2012 iMac.

Doug D


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 12:50:11 am

I still find it to be much less beach ball prone than earlier versions. Sometimes things seem to lag a bit, but not beachball.

For instance, I can modify audio channel information much more easily (turn on and off components, and name them) for 80 clips much faster than before. That process would certainly cause a beach ball.

The same media on the same SAN over an Ethernet connection on a new retina MBP runs a bit better than a 2009 MacPro connected via Fibre. I am waiting patiently for JetPacPro.

I feel like these lags are waveform and thumbnail creation. If I find some lag, I usually trash those caches, and the next time they rebuild, there's much less lag.


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Oliver Peters
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 1:05:25 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I feel like these lags are waveform and thumbnail creation. If I find some lag, I usually trash those caches, and the next time they rebuild, there's much less lag."

On my most recent project, working the event browser in the list mode was largely useless, because it was very slow in writing waveforms and the thumbnail when I selected any given clip. It was faster to work in the filmstrip (icon) view, because once all the clips were populated, you could quickly move from one clip to the next.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 1:53:19 am

Not sure how this fits into the sluggishness spectrum, but... (long post)

I have a large project, which is to say several hundred clips in an event in the library. Video is Red files, 5k, 23.98. All footage has proxies, generated from within FCP 10.1.1 (some files generated as far back as 10.0.9). Audio files are .wav. Audio & video made into synchronized clips for editing. No problems marking and synching the files (other than cursing the DP for not shooting an audio guide track on the Red, so I had to synch them all manually -grr!).

Finally started editing. Using Proxies. MacBook Pro 15" retina. 16 gig ram. mid-level CPU. Not the latest, but one rev back. Files on G-speed, Raid 0, via fibre card in a Sonnet Echo PCI to Thunderbolt box. Viewer on 2nd computer screen via HDMI. USB audio in/out.

For the first time with FCP X, I'm getting fairly regular beach balling. Doing a lot of trimming, especially expanding audio to overlap, then collapsing back. Beach balls mostly when doing the audio stuff, especially if I move fast. Actual behavior: start to pull the end of the clip, nothing happens, audio often plays a frame or two repeating for a couple of seconds, then the beach ball, then everything catches up and is fine. Total time elapsed, less than 10 seconds. (Which seems like an eternity when I'm trying to finesse a cut.) Then all is well for at least several minutes. Then, seemingly at random, the lockup & beach ball again. Rinse and repeat for several hours.

Tried keeping the inspector window closed and changing timeline view to minimize video on the clips. No effect that I can detect. Haven't tried switching to the simplest timeline view yet. Working with viewer on main monitor (default setup) doesn't seem to help.

Interestingly, I sometimes see a lag in the video, almost like dropped frames stuttering, but very slight and not consistent. That shouldn't be happening using proxy video in best performance mode.

None of this is fatal, just irritating. And my system has been very well-behaved up to this point, even using the broadcast out (Kona 3 in that same PCI to Thunderbolt box). Don't remember if I upgraded to Mavericks or if it was already installed- did the first generation Retina 15" come with ML or Mavericks?

Thoughts?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 2:24:18 am

First thing to check is what the format of your timeline and the frame buffer the Kona are set to.

If theres a mismatch in settings, things can get really choppy. You have to turn off the A/V output, change the Kona settings, then turn on A/V output.

What are they set to?

(go cubbies)


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 2:40:38 am

Hi Jeremy.

Not using the Kona card on this, as I'm still saving my $$ for a sweet FS monitor and it's not worth borrowing a broadcast monitor for the initial edit. So I'm just putting the viewer on the second monitor. (FWIW, I've never had problems with X and the Kona, as long as the latest driver was installed.)

The footage is 5k, and the timeline is set based on the first video clip. So I know my format and frame rate are correct. And I'm working strictly in proxy mode, as the MBPro chokes on the Red raw files, (at least at 5k).


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 2:47:07 am

[Jeff Markgraf] "And I'm working strictly in proxy mode, as the MBPro chokes on the Red raw files, (at least at 5k)."

Can you blame it? :)

[Jeff Markgraf] "Not using the Kona card on this, as I'm still saving my $$ for a sweet FS monitor and it's not worth borrowing a broadcast monitor for the initial edit. "

So under the "Window" menu, A/V output is unchecked, is that correct?


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 2:51:50 am

Well...I'm still at work, so I can't check until later. I would assume I unchecked it, 'cause I'd have to be a numbskull to have A/V on if I'm not using it. But then I've been known to emulate Curly on many an occasion, so.. (nyuck, nycuk!)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 3:01:16 am

[Jeff Markgraf] "Well...I'm still at work, so I can't check until later. I would assume I unchecked it, 'cause I'd have to be a numbskull to have A/V on if I'm not using it. But then I've been known to emulate Curly on many an occasion, so.. (nyuck, nycuk!)"

Me too! You might as well pull the Thunderbolt cable on it.

If that isn't it, write back. There's other things to check, too.


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 6:25:03 am

Well, that would have been too easy. AV is off. So that ain't it, kid, that ain't it. (Bonus points if you get the reference.)

Can't pull the TB cable, since I need the PCI card cage for the Fiber raid card. Maybe I'll try setting the tim line to something easy like HD and see if smooths the odd video stutters.

Anyone else want to weigh in on the audio Tourette's and the beach balling?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 2:18:08 pm

That's the next suggestion, work in an HD timeline.

Also, run a disk speed test on your hard drive to make sure it's not a disk performance issue.

Your Proxy media is somewhere around 2.5k. Even though it's a low data rate, it's still pushing a lot of pixels around.

Also, try switching to better performance and double check your are, in fact, in proxy mode.


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Justin Crowell
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 5:16:53 pm

I just want to weigh in here to say that I'm seeing similar things to what the video is showing. The most frustrating is dragging a clip in from the browser and having to wait for the timeline to figure out what's going on. I love FCPX's timeline, but I can't stand that lag.

FWIW, I have a similar machine to the one in the video (i7 Sandy Bridge with adequate throughput from a raid).

Editor, Producer, DP
JustinCrowell.com


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Nicholas Kleczewski
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 7:19:39 pm

I too can attest to the slugish responsiveness. Granted it takes me working on a fairly complex project, but nothing any nle couldn't handle in the past.

I bet others would agree, but you can almost feel it incrementally get slower with every new edit decision, effect, compound clip (still the worst offender)

I don't know if it's related to the database style that FCPX is built on but it's like FCPX is engineered to juggle some exact number of balls at once. Stay under that magic number of balls and it's a blazing fast experince. But the minute you add even a single ball over that limit the whole system collapses and the juggler is sweating bullets keeping up with what's falling from the air.

I've mentioned this before, and I'm speaking totally ignorant of how fcp is really juggling all this info at once, but I wish there almost a conveinence vs performance slider you could change based on the needs of a new project.

30 sec simple spot? Slide to full conveinence mode and sail right through it. Editing a 30 min show with tons of footage, effects etc? Slide to performance mode, lose some of the thumbnails, waveforms etc on the fly but get fcp7/avid user interface responsiveness back.

I've literally lost hours on projects adding up all those little half - 2 sec pauses on every decision. It can be quite a soul crushing experience.


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 20, 2014 at 10:28:20 pm

Quick update, Jeremy.

1. Changing timeline to HD had no effect. Just puts a render bar over everything.

2. Definitely in proxy mode. Better performance is selected when looking at original footage, but as noted above, I can't use original at 5k on the laptop.

3. The freezing/beach-balling is almost definitely related to trimming. Especially trimming too fast.

4. I may try using the system audio card instead of the Kontrol-1 USB audio interface I've been using for the last couple of years. I've noticed some odd audio behavior since X. Maybe there's a conflict somewhere.

Thanks for troubleshooting with me. Anyone else is welcome to weigh in.

Jeff M.


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Justin Crowell
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 20, 2014 at 10:30:58 pm

If there is a conflict, I'm wondering if it might show up in the Console. Maybe you should try and leave that open while you work?

Editor, Producer, DP
JustinCrowell.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 20, 2014 at 11:39:36 pm

[Jeff Markgraf] "2. Definitely in proxy mode. Better performance is selected when looking at original footage, but as noted above, I can't use original at 5k on the laptop."

I haven't worked with 5k Red proxy footage in FCPX. When you open a Proxy file in QT, what pixel size is it?

[Jeff Markgraf] "3. The freezing/beach-balling is almost definitely related to trimming. Especially trimming too fast."

What's your disk speed and is the Library on your system drive or GSpeed? Wherever your library is, that's where your proxy files are. If you don't have the latest SDD Retina, that might be your bottleneck. That also relates to your answer of question 2.

[Jeff Markgraf] "4. I may try using the system audio card instead of the Kontrol-1 USB audio interface I've been using for the last couple of years. I've noticed some odd audio behavior since X. Maybe there's a conflict somewhere."

In the Applications > AJA Utilities folder there's a conflict checker. Try running it with the Kontrol-1 plugged in.

Jeremy


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Mitch Ives
Re: FCPX user interface responsiveness
on Feb 19, 2014 at 7:43:00 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I still find it to be much less beach ball prone than earlier versions. Sometimes things seem to lag a bit, but not beachball."

I'd agree with that. I do have slowness in some areas and it's quicker in others. I haven't bothered to track it scientifically, but it's definitely experiencing some slow downs here and there...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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