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Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?

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TImothy Auld
Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 2:58:21 am

Or does anyone have a five year business plan? Jeez. Avid (I guess this is my bet) Premiere CC? (I don't know about you but i'd really like to see these bastards fall right on their collective face.) Vegas? Well, yeah if Sony wins out. But really - FCPX? Have they operated like anything other than a corporate entity that wants to make as many $299 charges as they possibly can? They said "stay with me and we can do professional work together." And we did. And at that time there was a dialog. They haven't said one single word to me since 2011. Why, in the name of all that's Holy, should I trust Apple for the next six months, let alone the next five years?

Tim


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Gary Huff
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:13:46 am

[TImothy Auld] "Why, in the name of all that's Holy, should I trust Apple for the next six months, let alone the next five years?"

What are you saying exactly? If $300 is make it or break it to you, then don't spend the money. Stick with what you have. Simple as that.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:20:43 am

I said it pretty exactly. Can I trust this company to make software that meets my needs. Your implication that I can't afford the $299 notwithstanding.

Tim


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Gary Huff
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:54:10 am

Then don't buy it. You're the one talking 5 year business plans. Why? You act like it's an investment.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:57:55 am

It is an investment. It's an investment in where the technology is going. How do you not see that?

Tim


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Brett Sherman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 4:09:23 am

If FCP X doesn't work for you now, I'm not sure why it would in the future. I'm not sure I trust any of the companies. I think when FCP X first came out I had some question about Apple's commitment to Pro Apps. But they've consistently improved FCP X and they released the new Mac Pro. So I'm less concerned about that now. I'm pretty confident FCP X and Apple will be around in 5 years. It works for me now, so I'm sticking with it.



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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 4:25:05 am

I'm not sure that I follow your logic that if it doesn't work for me now it won't work for me in the future. I can point to many times where something didn't work for for me at the moment but the very same thing worked for me a few years down the road. And certainly you are right that Apple will be around five years from now. My question is not only will they make a product that meets my needs five years hence but are they committed to doing so. And Apple has been - for the last three years - quite mute on that subject.

Tim


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Mark Dobson
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 6:25:49 am

[TImothy Auld] "My question is not only will they make a product that meets my needs five years hence but are they committed to doing so. And Apple has been - for the last three years - quite mute on that subject."

I don't see all of the substantial software updates in 10.0 or the recent 10.1 update as evidence of Apple being mute on the subject. Whilst they keep their cards close to their chest in terms of future development they have really demonstrated commitment to FCPX.

I'm looking to be using FCPX for the next 5 years as part of my my business plan which on the technical side also includes upgrading to the new mac pro and getting new screens. To be honest I wouldn't like to have to learn yet another NLE. The few times I've gone back into FCP7 have been pretty difficult as I try and skim clips or hit W or E to add clips to the timeline. In fact if Apple discontinued FCPX I'd find someone else to edit for us.

5 years isn't really that long a period in terms of product development and at the moment everything is sliding towards 4K. And FCPX is well equipped to deal with that right now.


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Gary Huff
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 12:41:34 pm

[TImothy Auld] "It's an investment in where the technology is going. How do you not see that?"

I think you are using those words in a way that may not accurately address what you're trying to say.

What do you mean "investment"? Learning the software? If you feel that the software needs an "investment" of learning time, then you should buy it. Unless $300 is too much for you to spend to do that. If you think the price is the investment, well, that can't be it because you were smarmy about my point on that, right?

What do you mean by "technology is going"? That everything is going to the Mac OS? That everything is going to the magnetic timeline? What explicitly? 4K? FCPX isn't the only NLE that can work with 4K.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 18, 2014 at 11:07:49 pm

Explcitly: You gotta buy the tube.

Tim


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Chris Conlee
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 7:46:24 am

No, it's not part of my 5 year plan.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 8:58:53 am

Between Apple's FCP/FCPX transition, Adobe flushing a golden opportunity down the toilet with timing of CC and Avid's corporate health in question I'm not making long term plans for NLEs. In the past twelve months I've jumped between PPro, FCP7 and Avid MC (almost started a FCPX gig but it fell through) and I figure that's going to be the name of my game for the foreseeable future.

I/O hardware is less relevant, less expensive and many times it will work with all the major NLE's equally well so, unlike in days past, editors aren't really buying into a system anymore. The cost barrier is low enough that playing 'flavor of the month' is affordable so I'm going to go with what makes the most sense short term because long term is just to up in the air right now.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 11:37:38 am

It is for me. I think Apple wants to close the loop on content creation and distribution and FCPX will be part of it. Plus, it's a damn powerful piece of software created by a company that has the funds to continue strong development. I can't say the same for Avid and it's products. Last time I had a gig on MC it seemed just old and slow. Shame, really.

Plus, it's only $299.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Chris Conlee
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 5:04:18 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Last time I had a gig on MC it seemed just old and slow. Shame, really."

Interesting. What one person sees as "old and slow," another sees as mature and stable. I can't imagine doing what I do, ie: episodic television with sometimes 1,000 VFX per week in a shared environment, on anything BUT Media Composer. There's a reason why it's still used on probably 95% of all top Hollywood shows and features.

Chris


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 5:32:52 pm

You are exactly right, Chris. What you do is exactly what Avid/Media Composer is great at. In fact, I was just consulting with a colleague who is setting up a broadcast-like shared environment and I absolutely suggested that Avid was his best bet, no matter what my opinion is of the speed. But, that in itself does not make it the best choice or the best platform for every visual storyteller. There's a big world outside of LA.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Chris Conlee
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 5:43:41 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "that in itself does not make it the best choice or the best platform for every visual storyteller"

Absolutely agree. Like computers, I'm largely agnostic, believe it or not. I used Amigas for years, then D/Vision and Razor and Incite on a PC. Have dabbled with Premiere thru the years. Moved to Mac so I could use FCP 7 when I needed too. I'm currently playing with Lightworks in Bootcamp, and looking forward to the imminent Mac release, although now that I don't find myself using FCP much, I may move back to PC on my next upgrade. The right tool for the job is my mantra.

Chris


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Bob Woodhead
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 1:37:17 pm

My five-year plan has the peasants back on the steppes harvesting, and increased steel production for milk bottles (aka, tanks). World Dominance by Year 7 is a forgone conclusion.

Seriously, with the way technology moves these days, if I can't get a ROI inside of 3 years on anything but lenses, it's a poor purchase. If someone releases the BSSB (BestSinceSlicedBread) NLE on OSX, I'll drop X and switch. I do wish to stay on OSX for various reasons, but my NLE choice is what works for me, now. And after finding it wasn't an issue to re-learn the mechanics of driving an NLE (Legacy -> X), I'm not concerned if I need to re-learn again in the future.

We've had discussions here how we can't "trust" any software vendor. Inevitably they'll do what's best for them, not each of us individually.

As for my business planning, it has little or nothing to do with either software or hardware. It has to do with content and partnerships.

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
CMX-Quantel-Avid-FCP-Premiere-3D-AFX-Crayola
"What a long strange trip it's been...."


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Brian Chaffee
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 3:06:30 pm

OP:
The program seems to be awesome. You can get editing right away and work gets done fast.

You are working in both a standard editor and a composition program again, getting work done fast.

Problem is, you cannot save it unless you close the program and re-open it. Otherwise you will have to wait 15-minutes for the software to save it. Here is the question: why would anyone code the software like that? That alone speaks volumes of where apple is.

Not to mention, you could not use the software unless you had a full blown i7 iMac and even then it stuttered and, in a word, ridiculous. The new mac pro is set up for it. Years after releasing fcpx.

Bob W,
With you on this one.

Andrew,
Good assessment. PPro could have run with the ball to the TD zone, but they didn't, did they. Now why would they do that? Indeed.

Brett S.
They have constantly improved? They have constantly added back in what they took out for one. And it is still lacking. Huge.

Gary H,
Who are you? Investment: 'putting time and effort into something'. Maybe you can leave your address and we will all put together a fund and send you a dictionary.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 12:13:17 am

Lenses? Really? Lenses? What? What present lenses can capture is so far beyond what is normally projected. Lenses? Jesus? Really? Again, Jeez? Lenses?

Tim


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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 5:52:08 pm

[TImothy Auld] "should I trust Apple for the next six months, let alone the next five years?"

My question back is that if you put your trust in any company you're making a mistake.
I have very good reason not to trust Avid or Adobe either.
I do trust that Apple intends to use FCPX as part of a strategy to sell Macs.

My business model is to be nimble enough to change as companies change their directions. Long gone are the days where $100,000 plus systems getting abandoned wreaking financial havoc to a facility.



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Michael Sanders
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 6:53:17 pm

Er. FCP X has paid for itself many times over already because of increased productivity. I can give the client a better product quicker and that's already got me a couple of extra clients.

If Apple pull it and don't develop it I'll still use it over Pre Pro or Avid until it falls over or if something better comes along. If that happens in less than five years I'll be impressed.

To be fair as a one man shop my economics are different to a post house.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Patrick Murphy
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 8:31:10 pm
Last Edited By Patrick Murphy on Feb 15, 2014 at 8:33:07 pm

"My question back is that if you put your trust in any company you're making a mistake."

"I do trust that Apple intends to use FCPX as part of a strategy to sell Macs."

Well it appears that skepticism has it's limits.

With corporations, I think the best practice is to look at past behavior. Apple's track record is bad enough to raise doubts in any reasonable person. Of course Avid and Adobe are not angels, but at least their business model is narrow enough to suggest some restraint in alienating their customer base. Apple on the other hand has no such inhibitions. They could drop FCPX tomorrow and the negative impact, if any, on their corporate health would be relatively small.

Gaining true proficiency in an NLE is not a trivial task. It takes a lot of time, effort, and often additional expenses beyond just the cost of the NLE software. I think the number of editors still on FCP7 are a testament to this fact. Like it or not, the selection of your primary editing tool requires a unavoidable level of trust in who you buy it from.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 11:00:35 pm

[Patrick Murphy] "Of course Avid and Adobe are not angels, but at least their business model is narrow enough to suggest some restraint in alienating their customer base. Apple on the other hand has no such inhibitions. They could drop FCPX tomorrow and the negative impact, if any, on their corporate health would be relatively small. "

You may want to re-examine the business models of Avid and Adobe. Media Composer and Symphony are a very small part of Avid's revenues. They're a hardware sales service and support company.

Adobe could drop Premiere and it would likely not cause anyone to shift away from Photoshop, After Effects, Illustrator, InDesign, their Server software.

Maybe you just perceive them as NLE companies but they're not and in both cases it's a small part of their business.

Apple is all about commodification and dependencies and FCPX keeps users in the Apple hardware and software services eco-system.



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Patrick Murphy
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 2:47:23 pm

You're distorting what I said. Whether Avid or Adobe are NLE based companies is entirely beside the point. Also to be clear I never made that assertion.

What I did say was that the economic impact to Apple of dropping their flagship NLE would be minimal relative to what it would mean to Avid or Adobe. Frankly I'm surprised you seem to be quibbling about this point. After all Apple has already did this in June 2011 and yet it's stock price continued to rise for the remainder of the year. Are you really suggesting that Avid and Adobe could do the same without a significant negative impact on their value?

If you are comfortable with "commodification and dependencies" and other theoretical constructs about Apple's future behavior that's great. My perspective is based on past performance, not prediction. When you look at Apple in that light, partnering with them is the more risky proposition.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 4:58:04 pm

[Patrick Murphy] "Are you really suggesting that Avid and Adobe could do the same without a significant negative impact on their value? "

Yes exactly. For years Premiere had very little significance at Adobe. For many it was the afterthought or just the conduit to their other video apps and Adobe is NOT specifically a video company. You might have a look at their server business.

Media Composer itself makes very little money for Avid. It has some importance because of its relationship it Unity/Isis . Avid long ago left behind being a predominantly turnkey NLE company.

Apple is very careful about the roles different programs play in their eco-system. Sometimes very small pieces of the economic pie play a big role because of their product interconnections. Consider why Apple bothered to make a new MacPro given how little revenue it generated by itself. I doubt these are "vanity" projects. I suspect they play a role in their marketing as well as halo affect as anyone using these products probably buys several other Apple products as well.



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Herb Sevush
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 8:19:43 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Media Composer itself makes very little money for Avid. It has some importance because of its relationship it Unity/Isis . Avid long ago left behind being a predominantly turnkey NLE company."

What value does Unity/Isis have outside of it's relationship
to Media Composer?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 11:09:19 pm

[Herb Sevush] "What value does Unity/Isis have outside of it's relationship
to Media Composer?"


I do think it's important to understand who the "money making" technology is in that relationship.

I'm about to say something highly speculative but what should happen if Avid's solution is to focus on Isis, it's management utilities, services fees, and drop Media Composer and focus on working with other NLE developers with better integration. Neither Adobe or Apple have any kind of competing product.



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Chris Conlee
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 11:36:17 pm

Yeah, but it's kind of a "chicken and egg" scenario, too. While neither company has a product to compete with Isis, neither company has a product that can take advantage of Isis like Media Composer, either (user permissions automatically dealt with in shared projects, etc.) I think Avid needs both to be successful and to differentiate themselves from the competition at a certain level.

Chris


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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 3:21:22 am

[Chris Conlee] "neither company has a product that can take advantage of Isis like Media Composer"
[Chris Conlee] "I think Avid needs both to be successful and to differentiate themselves from the competition at a certain level."

Avid doesn't need Media Composer so much as a way to facilitate other NLEa to use Isis. They need to sell more Isis, not Media Composer.

I'm not sure how much R&D Avid puts into Media Composer but I could see, if the company did a shake up, of focusing resources on developing for other NLEs and allowing MC to fade. Avid makes money on hardware and they may want to focus on expanding their potential hardware sales without depending on MC and the development resources that uses.



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Chris Conlee
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 3:33:07 am

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, Craig. Media Composer has the best project sharing on the market, and the core Isis technology facilitates that. I don't see Isis being of value to other NLEs beyond the basic shared storage; but it's definitely overkill for that.

Chris


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Herb Sevush
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 11:40:53 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I do think it's important to understand who the "money making" technology is in that relationship."

If Avid decided to provide third party networking and media management it wouldn't surprise me. What would shock me speechless is if it offered those services while killing off MC. At the moment the entire value of Isis is in networking MC stations, the idea that they would kill the goose because they could maybe get more eggs somewhere else does not seem very likely. Less likely, by an order of magnitude, then Apple deciding to shut down Pro Apps.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 3:30:31 am

[Herb Sevush] "What would shock me speechless is if it offered those services while killing off MC."

One of two things could happen in that regard. Avid allows MC to wither over time while it works with other NLEs to improve integration. Avid sells Media Composer to someone who wants to add an NLE and has the business model to profit from it. No they wouldn't kill it immediately, they'd just create a framework so other NLEs can eventually do the same job as MC as far as integration is concerned. At that point they could EOL or sell MC.

Maybe not yet the best comparison but consider EditShare's business model regarding integration. It'll be interesting to see what really happens to Lightworks development over time regarding their efforts and/or open source.



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Herb Sevush
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 4:27:14 am

[Craig Seeman] "One of two things could happen in that regard. Avid allows MC to wither over time while it works with other NLEs to improve integration. Avid sells Media Composer to someone who wants to add an NLE and has the business model to profit from it. No they wouldn't kill it immediately, they'd just create a framework so other NLEs can eventually do the same job as MC as far as integration is concerned."

Let's put this another way -- why would anyone want Isis who didn't have other options. If I were looking for a networked storage system for any NLE other than MC, Avid would be the last place I'd go. Their ONLY competitive advantage is the tie-in with MC - other than that they are simply the most expensive option out there, with the worst record for customer service. Without the demand for MC's sharing capabilities in the large facility niche, Isis is dead. Separating MC from Isis when analyzing Avid is absurd. While it's true you can use MC without Isis, it is, as you have pointed out, a money loosing situation, but you can't sell any Isis units without it. The only way they grow Isis sales is by growing MC sales, which is why they will keep developing it.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Chris Harlan
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 22, 2014 at 6:19:54 pm

[Herb Sevush] "with the worst record for customer service."

I take it you've never met or corresponded with Marianne Montague. If you had, your take on Avid customer service would probably be quite different. Very specifically because of her, I rate Avid's customer service pretty high these days. And I think you'll find a lot of other Avid editors who will back me up on that.


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Chris Conlee
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 23, 2014 at 12:21:29 am

+1000 for Marianne. I too put Avid at the top of the heap with regards to customer service because of her.

Chris


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 11:42:56 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Neither Adobe or Apple have any kind of competing product."

I'd argue Adobe Anywhere could shape up to be a competing product and don't we keep hearing about code in FCPX that tantalizingly hints at some sort of super multi-editor, shared storage goodness? Would Adobe and/or Apple want to play ball with Avid and collaborate by giving access to deep hooks inside PPro and FCPX? If not, what would differentiate Avid's shared storage offerings from Promax and EditShare?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 3:38:31 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Would Adobe and/or Apple want to play ball with Avid and collaborate by giving access to deep hooks inside PPro and FCPX? If not, what would differentiate Avid's shared storage offerings from Promax and EditShare?"

Actually you point very well to Avid's potential Achilles heal. Avid can assist Adobe and Apple or one of Avid's competitors will. Avid may have to decide whether it's better for them to do R&D for other NLEs vs R&D for MC. Keep in mind that Avid simply can't continue doing what they're doing and, amongst other hardware sales, have to find ways to expand Isis sales. At this point their "differentiation" isn't doing well enough for them, it would seem. In fact, working towards multi NLE support may fend of EditShare encroachment over time.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 1:40:32 am

[Herb Sevush] "What value does Unity/Isis have outside of it's relationship to Media Composer?"

[Craig Seeman] "I do think it's important to understand who the "money making" technology is in that relationship. I'm about to say something highly speculative but what should happen if Avid's solution is to focus on Isis, it's management utilities, services fees, and drop Media Composer and focus on working with other NLE developers with better integration. Neither Adobe or Apple have any kind of competing product."

I would see that as a massive step down for Avid and for their customers.

Avid's project sharing is a core strength that stems from the fundamental architecture of their system as a whole, spanning both the NLE client and the storage. They're built for each other, and I don't think Avid would be able to offer much to anybody with only half a system that they couldn't get elsewhere.

Basically, I'm re-iterating Herb's point. You may be right that Isis makes the money, but Herb was talking about value. Why do people buy Isis? Surely it's not the Avid management utilities and service fees.

Also, I'm curious why you wouldn't consider Adobe Anywhere to be a competing solution. Are you just talking about the hardware there?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 3:46:46 am

[Walter Soyka] "Avid's project sharing is a core strength that stems from the fundamental architecture of their system as a whole, spanning both the NLE client and the storage. They're built for each other, and I don't think Avid would be able to offer much to anybody with only half a system that they couldn't get elsewhere."

And if Avid focuses on providing the tools so Adobe and Apple users can hook in, they can expand their Isis sales.

I personally have to wonder why Avid tried to cut MC prices to sale to user base that has no interest in Isis. I don't think Avid can make MC a money maker. It's the wrong direction for them. Given they have limited R&D resources in their current financial state, using that R&D to support other NLEs.

If Adobe starts to creep further into collaborative Broadcast and Cinema markets, Avid would benefit by supporting them (and FCPX if it get there eventually).



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 4:29:55 am

[Craig Seeman] "And if Avid focuses on providing the tools so Adobe and Apple users can hook in, they can expand their Isis sales."

Isn't that the other way around? Adobe and Apple would have to give Avid access to the underpinnings of their NLEs, right? EditShare and Promax, for example, keep playing a cat and mouse game with Avid in regards to project sharing. They figure out a way to mimic ISIS-like project sharing functionality and Avid breaks it with an update. They figure it out again and Avid breaks it again. And if Adobe and Apple are planing their own shared storage solutions then why would they help out Avid?

Speaking of EditShare and Promax, they have been around for years but, AFAIK, they've never officially partnered with Adobe or Apple (hence their picking up Lightworks)? What would make Avid any different? Maybe FCPX and PPro just aren't built to be used in a shared storage, multi-editor environment like Avid is so there's not much point in going down that path at all? It's easy to have multi-editors share an Avid project since the saving happens at the bin level instead of the project level. When saving happens at the project level I think it becomes much more complicated to have multiple people share the same project.

PPro, for example, can't open more than one project at a time but you can use the Media Browser to basically get read access to another project and view/copy contents as needed. Adobe's approach seems to be every editor is an island but there's built in, read-only tunnels connecting them all.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 18, 2014 at 11:12:20 pm
Last Edited By TImothy Auld on Feb 18, 2014 at 11:25:09 pm

Perhaps trust is the wrong word. I have quite a few reasons not to trust Adobe and Avid as well. But not nearly as many as I have not to trust Apple.

Tim


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 12:24:42 am

Indeed.

Tim


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Daniel Peterson
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 7:20:35 pm

For me it seems my main workhorse will be the CC (creative cloud) at least for the next few years simply because I constantly use Photoshop, Illustrator, and After Effects... and being proficient with those other 'industry standard' apps is part of my plan. But in saying that I am quite keen to also have FCPX on my system as a few higher end cinematographers I know are using it to cut their own material.

PS. I've just updated a personal website project http://www.thedigitalslice.com (currently just a survey) that I'm hoping will be useful in gathering data about who's using different NLE's... if you wanna add your data, would be much appreciated!

Filmmaker | Motion Graphic Artist
http://www.saltmedia.net
http://www.TheDigitalSlice.com (beta)


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David Mathis
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 7:35:33 pm

I am keeping my eye on Resolve for the moment. At present it is not meant to be a NLE like Avid, FCP, Premiere or any other NLE out there. It does like it could be a competitor to Smoke should it continue to go where I think it is going. That would be a great thing. Resolve is powerful, gets the job done and could very well become even better. Interesting times are just around the corner.


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John Davidson
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 15, 2014 at 10:34:21 pm

[TImothy Auld] " Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?"

Yes. So is CC. And Maya. And Logic Pro X. And Office 365 with email hosting. 4k monitors. And macs. Lots of macs. Plus, Thunderbolt RAIDs, IP over Thunderbolt, multiple RAIDs broken down between clients so that servers don't get bogged down with several people working on the same RAID, etc. More talented people are also part of the plan. The number one thing on the list is exploring new avenues of creative and challenging myself and the team to never settle for passable work.

What's not in the plan 5 years down the road? Pro Tools. Avid. PCI anything. Thunderbolt displays and monitors that aren't 4k or Retina. RAID cards. Spinning drives. Tape.

Sheesh - in 5 years FCPX will be phenomenal. I'm not saying it's perfect now, not by any means, but there's enough good stuff about it now that keeps me mostly pleased with it's progress. I think most of it's issues right now are related to 10.9.1 being a bit buggy. Very hopeful that 10.9.2 will drop this week and right the boat a bit. FCPX 10.1.2 should also help out some, but I have no idea when that will come out.

Personally I think Apple is very focused on this industry. More so now than any time in the last 5 years I'd say.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 12:43:10 am

[John Davidson] "Sheesh - in 5 years FCPX will be phenomenal."

Just in time for Apple to let it stagnate for two years the blow it up all over again when they introduce FCP 11! ;)


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Charlie Austin
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 2:49:57 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Just in time for Apple to let it stagnate for two years the blow it up all over again when they introduce FCP 11"

Which will be awesome! They can leverage all the work they're doing with biomedical sensor tech and FCP 11 will consist of a Browser, Timeline, and a Bio-Sensing Edit Hat. Just imagine what you want the cut to look like and there it is!

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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John Davidson
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 2:55:11 am

That transition looks like the editor had indigestion!

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 2:59:05 am

[John Davidson] "That transition looks like the editor had indigestion!"

LOL. You could base hiring on personality type. Hmm.. we have some action spots to cut... Hire someone angry! Need a good horror trailer? Hire a psychopath! Comedy, Hire a comedian! No technical skills required, just the proper imagination. ;-)


All freelance of course...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 3:14:07 am

[Charlie Austin] " Bio-Sensing Edit Hat."

LOL, trademark that now!


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David Mathis
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 5:57:24 am

[Charlie Austin] "Bio-Sensing Edit Hat."

Sounds like something from that movie where Christopher Lloyd plays a deranged scientist that went off the deep end.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 4:16:12 pm

[Charlie Austin] " and a Bio-Sensing Edit Hat."

Actually, I'm working with the team that's prototypying that. Its a little bit buggy when I use it, but you should see what my dog can do.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 12:35:46 am

You know - and I'm quite surprised that you guys didn't know this - but I bought and have been wearing that hat for sometime. And with that knowledge I decree that Premiere CC is the winner - uh, unless your have to use its ancillary software. OK - the I decree FCPX the winner - unless you have to deliver to broadcast (and without audio problems.) then X is the winner - or, if you don't have to use Avid Media Access, then Avid is the winner. Case closed.

Tim


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Darren Roark
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 7:17:05 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Just in time for Apple to let it stagnate for two years the blow it up all over again when they introduce FCP 11! ;)"

I did get a chuckle out of this.

FCP stayed pretty much the same for 12 years, and X is barely 2.5 years old. I think it's come a long way in such a short time.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 10:10:34 pm

[Darren Roark] "FCP stayed pretty much the same for 12 years, and X is barely 2.5 years old. I think it's come a long way in such a short time.
"


I agree that FCPX is moving right along though I'd say FCP Legend had a good 8 years ('99'-07) of solid releases before Apple let it coast. The final upgrade to version 7 in '09 was anemic at best and looking back I think it's clear the team at Apple had other priorities.


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Darren Roark
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 12:29:09 am

[Andrew Kimery] "The final upgrade to version 7 in '09 was anemic at best and looking back I think it's clear the team at Apple had other priorities."

I agree. The rumor that they had FCP 8 pretty much finished in 64bit then scrapped it at the last minute supports that statement.

It makes sense that they would make something completely different no longer having to create a GUI that makes it easier for editors to adapt from cutting film on flatbeds. (A kem was my first NLE) FCP X 10.0 is really the first version that Apple made completely on it's own since legacy FCP was bought from Macromedia.

Other than gang sync there really isn't anything I can't do using FCPX that I could do in FCP 5-7.


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Richard Herd
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 17, 2014 at 7:22:57 pm

[John Davidson] "The number one thing on the list is exploring new avenues of creative and challenging myself and the team to never settle for passable work."

That would make a perfect t-shirt 'cause it really is the hard part.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 16, 2014 at 4:00:02 pm

No. I've pretty much moved away from any thought of ever using Final Cut X professionally. I never say never, but the advantages it offers me just don't make up for the disadvantages. I can see that it is a terrific choice for a lot of people, and if the production world around me ever makes more room for it, I'll certainly reconsider. But I'm at peace about not going there, which is one of the reasons I say a lot less around here these days. The other is that I'm working my butt off. So, peace out, y'all.


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Craig Shamwell
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 18, 2014 at 2:38:38 pm

Ok, Timothy....you ask a question and give your opinions about Premiere and MC, and then pretty much discount FCPX and Apple as not really being a viable choice. You say "we did", with regards to staying with Apple....so does that mean you actually have been using FCPX then and now in its current form? And why, when asking such a question would you not include just what kind of work you do so that we can actually have better dialogue? Because it is a good question!
No one will question that Apple dropped the ball with its "Beta" release of the original FCPX. After all the flack, Apple pretty much stopped making promises. Many folks like you actually think that spending millions on developing cutting edge software and hardware, does not show a commitment to the professional editing world. I disagree. At this time, no other company has the solution Apple has with the combo of FCPX and the New MacPro. But lets take a look at what 'Professional' really means....in 2014! 15 years ago, the Pro world of Video Editing, snobbishly discounted the Web as viable Media source for the general Public. We know now that was wrong. There are companies who do nothing but create content for the Web. There are companies who do nothing but stream live events to the Web. So the paradigm as to what is Professional Video/Film Production has changes dramatically! Just because of "missing" features that may not fit the requirements of your workflow, does not make it... 'not ready' for Professional Video Production.
John Davidson has it right, in that as far as the future goes, especially in 4K production, Apple is actually leading the way!
And if you do just a little bit of research, you will see so many who have found that editing with FCPX is faster than anything out there. And what I find interesting is how many still hark on the "no tracks" aspect of FCPX. Years ago, there was a Custom Built NLE called the "Video Toaster". While it had a "gridded" editing window, it was really a trackless NLE with the ability to place any media, anywhere. That Company is now Tricaster, and they use the same "trackless" editing window...still! Do you here anyone complaining about it? No...because its so much easier! Just as it is in FCPX! So.....after all that...it would make more than sense to me to include FCPX in anyone's 5 year plan as a Professional editor, regardless of what you prefer as your favorite editor! Why? First....for 300 bucks, you can install it on 3 machines. Multi-Cam editing is as easy as it gets. Managing Media and creating movable libraries for editing on multiple computers again, saves a bunch of time. Third Party Plug-In support is better than any other NLE. Codec Support is as good as any other NLE. No one is, or can argue at how good the New MacPro is, and how fast FCPX on it! How many other computers can run multiple 4K monitors? And as a caveat, all Macs come with iMovie installed. With "O" rendering times, many professionals use it for Dailies. Its great for quick cutting and outputting direct to Social Sites out in the field. In addition, your comment on Apple wanting to "make as many $300 sales as possible" is perplexing!? Are you embarrassed by using an Editor that is so cheap? I would have paid for the new Update to 10.1. But Apple has shown a great deal of commitment by not charging(nickle and dimeing)for it. They could have made millions with a $49 upgrade fee! Instead of posting a loaded and obviously biased question with little facts about what you actually do, you need to do a little bit of research and you will see many who left Apple are taking a second look and realizing that the speed in which you can edit and distribute is unprecedented. And few occupations rival Video Editing when it comes to the saying "TIME IS MONEY!"


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Walter Soyka
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 18, 2014 at 3:41:22 pm

[Craig Shamwell] "in that as far as the future goes, especially in 4K production, Apple is actually leading the way! ... No one is, or can argue at how good the New MacPro is, and how fast FCPX on it! How many other computers can run multiple 4K monitors?"

Apple is certainly leading the way on marketing 4K...

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Richard Herd
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 18, 2014 at 6:44:59 pm

[Walter Soyka] "leading the way on marketing 4K"

Red already won that marketing effort.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 18, 2014 at 7:09:26 pm

[Richard Herd] "Red already won that marketing effort."

I'm not so sure.

Since the nMP with all its 4K awesomeness has only been out for 2 months, the fact that people have been posting Red 4K for, what, 6 years now is being washed over by a shiny, dark, tubular Reality Distortion Field that's 4,096 pixels around.

Maybe I'll start calling the new Mac Pro the MP4K. That thing should come with a 4K sticker in the box. It'd look good on people's cars.

My New Year's resolution is 4K -- what's yours?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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TImothy Auld
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 18, 2014 at 11:22:17 pm

To respond to your dense an long winded post, yes I have used FCPX in its current form (10.1) and several before that. And there things I like. And things I don't. Not the least of which is no engagement with the creative community. But also, FCPX is still, after several years, unreliable.

Tim


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 19, 2014 at 12:06:34 am

[TImothy Auld] "But also, FCPX is still, after several years, unreliable."

Well hell, here I am thinking that FCPX works just fine. There ya go. Close down this forum.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Craig Shamwell
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 19, 2014 at 6:18:30 pm

That is not true. Look at individuals like Steve Martin and Larry Jordan who are in the creative community. I have sent comments and recommendations through Apple many times having direct dialogue with its techs, in helping to improve the software. And as long winded as I may have been, my comments about Tricaster, which is high end industry standard, stand alone production stations used buy many, is still true!
And how is it any more unreliable than any other editor? FCPX rarely crashes on my Souped Up iMac. I never lose place if there is a crash. What your saying, that you can't complete a project?
Its those kind of statements that I just cannot let you make when I use this editor 3-4 times a week, creating content for Web and TV.
Sure you may like a different editor, but bashing the Magnetic Timeline like its something new (when its really not)... is just not fair, when so many use an open editing window with Tricaster and formally Video Toaster for years!!! I will agree with you that FCPX is different for sure! But unreliable, no.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 19, 2014 at 7:25:45 pm

[Craig Shamwell] " bashing the Magnetic Timeline like its something new (when its really not)... is just not fair, when so many use an open editing window with Tricaster and formally Video Toaster for years!!!"

I knew about but never used the video toaster. Can you describe a bit more how it's timeline worked, and how it handled information without fixed tracks. I don't see how the Tricaster is really relevant here, but again, if you think it is a bit more information would be appreciated.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Shamwell
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 19, 2014 at 7:59:02 pm

Sure. It was a Windows computer on steriods specifically built for the software and all of its capabilities. It was a complete capture and editing studio. Its timeline while having lines, was open! You can put anything anywhere. Slide media around the timeline and drop it where you needed. It would not move parts around intuitively like FCPX, you had to manually select a group of clips and move them or grab a single clip. You had controls of each clips behaviors and could add filters and effects to clips or multiples of clips. I only worked with it for a short time, but today's Tricaster Series of Productions Work Stations which are really robust, use the same "open" timeline workspace.
And strangely after using it, going back to FCP7 and Premiere, it didn't seem right anymore to edit with tracks.


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Craig Shamwell
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 19, 2014 at 8:00:38 pm

http://i1.creativecow.net/u-upload.php#

Here is a photo of the Tricaster editing Window.


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Craig Shamwell
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 19, 2014 at 8:03:34 pm

new00102cgpost.jpg

Ok so I am dumb when it comes to getting a pic on here!!!??
See if this works.


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Craig Shamwell
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 2:43:39 pm

I think many will agree, it's time for people to stop saying Final Cut Pro X is not a professional product. At this point it's almost become laughable. I would much rather see or hear the particular situation that people edit in that Final Cut Pro X may not be suitable for as opposed to saying that it is not a professional product. In the old days it was film or television that all editors pretty much worked in and then came Video Tape, which Porn exploited to the fullest. Seen a video store lately? Today that paradigm has changed. Producing content for the web far outweighs any film and television production. And FCPX makes the whole process clean and fast, albeit not without its quirks at times. So let's all grow up and realize that FCPX is here to stay.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 5:05:23 pm

[Craig Shamwell] "Producing content for the web far outweighs any film and television production."

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Craig. Are you saying that web production is more common, or more important?

Thanks,

Shawn



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Chris Conlee
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 5:09:51 pm

I think he's merely saying that internet content can no longer be considered "non-professional" in general. And he's right. If you're making content and you're getting paid for it, then it's professional work. There are certainly MANY projects that FCP X is the perfect tool for. There are also many projects that I wouldn't use it for. Like a carpenter's toolbox, there are special tools for special needs.

Chris


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Shawn Miller
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 5:29:56 pm

[Chris Conlee] "I think he's merely saying that internet content can no longer be considered "non-professional" in general."

Fair enough, I think I'm still a little hung up on the terms "outweighs" though. I'm still not sure if he's alluding to mass or importance. I.E. there's more content on the web, vs web distribution is more desirable. :-) Also, if most paid web content originates from traditional post production workflows, how is FCPX better positioned to produce content bound for that medium?

Shawn



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Steve Connor
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 5:53:33 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Also, if most paid web content originates from traditional post production workflows"

What do you define as traditional?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Charlie Austin
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 6:03:04 pm

[Steve Connor] "What do you define as traditional?"

You know, making a work print, taping together your cut, having the negative conformed, etc. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Craig Seeman
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 8:32:26 pm

[Steve Connor] "What do you define as traditional?"

You know, like CMX 3400 controlling 1" machines to a hardware encoder for web of course.



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Shawn Miller
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 8:34:53 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Shawn Miller] "Also, if most paid web content originates from traditional post production workflows"

What do you define as traditional?"


Maybe traditional is the wrong word. How about standard? My point is that the web content that most people are paying to see, is for the most part, films and shows which were originally produced for broadcast, theatrical and DVD/Blu-ray distribution. So I was curious to know what this meant:

[Craig Shamwell] "Producing content for the web far outweighs any film and television production."

Again, is the web more relevant for the majority of working editors...? is web content more important in the grand scheme of the editing universe...? is television and theatrical distribution irrelevant now that we have the web...? help me out here. :-)

And if this is all true, what makes FCPX a better choice for producing this kind of content?

Shawn



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Charlie Austin
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 5:59:58 pm

[Chris Conlee] "Like a carpenter's toolbox, there are special tools for special needs."

How dare you post a rational reply on this forum?! :-) You are correct, of course. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Craig Shamwell
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 6:04:18 pm

No not all! FCPX is great for Web Producing because it's so fast and media friendly! But there are those who discount this section of producing as not professional! When there are those making a good living only producing for the web. I so wish I could work on films but I may never have a chance to do that, who knows?


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Shawn Miller
Re: Is FCP X part of your five year business plan?
on Feb 21, 2014 at 8:38:59 pm

[Craig Shamwell] "No not all! FCPX is great for Web Producing because it's so fast and media friendly! But there are those who discount this section of producing as not professional! When there are those making a good living only producing for the web. I so wish I could work on films but I may never have a chance to do that, who knows?"

Ah, I see. I completely understand, 90% of what I produce is for web and intranent too. :-)

Shawn



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