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tony west
update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 1:55:52 pm

I have not had anymore lag problems since I copied my library to another drive and started working off it.

That's the only thing I did different and not one beach ball since (I also turned off that App nap).

Still not sure why the one project could not play from there but I have to conclude that particular problem was with my equipment and not with the 10.1 update.

Well, I started a post going off so I wanted to update you guys.

Thanks for the help everyone offered.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 2:47:21 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Jan 17, 2014 at 2:47:35 pm

Thanks for the update, Tony.

What kind of a drive was it?


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tony west
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 3:01:09 pm

It's a G-Tech drive.

Using the FW-800

I have had it for maybe a year and half I think.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 3:15:49 pm

Are you using an Apple Thunderbolt adapter?


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tony west
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 4:34:30 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Have you upgraded to 10.1.1 yet?"

No, not yet


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tony west
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 4:33:40 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Are you using an Apple Thunderbolt adapter?
"


No I'm not


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 4:51:17 pm

Why? Does the Tbolt to FW adapter cause any known issues?

Doug D


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 5:34:56 pm

I find the Apple adapter to be a little slow.

I have a Belkin TBolt dock coming and I am going to compare the speed of that fw800 vs the Apple fw800.

Although, for mobile work, usb3 is probably going to become more normal for me.

I was doing transfers at 133 MB/sec the other day and USB3 seems to be rather ubiquitous.

Jeremy


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 5:58:04 pm

Thanks, Jeremy. And this discussion is not even OT, as using FCPX inevitably pushes you to modern Macs with Thunderbolt, even though you may have a dozen FW drives on the shelf, full of footage!

Re: USB 3, I was told the one downside was the fact that it's not full duplex, so while great for a read OR write, less than perfect for constant read/write that happens during editing.

This is something I don't entirely understand. If you have projects, events AND media on same external, maybe an issue. But if your external is simply for original/optimized media, isn't that read-only? Does location of your render files completely alter the equation, since they are being written while simultaneously reading original media?

I am assuming a single FCPX user, external drive with media. Where do you keep projects/events library, relative to original or optimized media?

Doug D


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Lance Bachelder
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 6:30:49 pm

You were told wrong about USB 3 - it is full duplex - meaning bi-directional transfers at full speed just like firewire and unlike USB 2 and earlier.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 6:39:19 pm

Thanks, Lance. That is good news, especially for the cheap on-the-road set-up, e.g. a MBPr 13" with FCPX installed, an iPhone or DSLR, or even a little HandyCam ... and a cheap USB 3 portable drive, for quick shoot-to-edit-to upload to Vimeo or YouTube..

This is obviously the low-end use of FCPX as discussed often on this forum, and it works well, especially when I take my high school students on location for a quick lesson.

Doug D


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Bill Davis
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 8:38:33 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "This is obviously the low-end use of FCPX as discussed often on this forum, and it works well, especially when I take my high school students on location for a quick lesson."

That's silly. Sure you can do great "low end" work in X. But you can also do VERY high end work in it as well.

I regularly use my mobile system for pretty high level corporate communications projects and can as easily work with RED and Alexa sources as stuff from an iPhone via X's kick ass Optimized and Proxy workflows.

I'm heading to LA next weekend for the FCPXWorks tech demos and expect to learn more about how some in Hollywood are migrating to on-set scene logging and digital dailies using FCP-X. I doubt the examples I'll be watching of X in use on big budget movie sets will be particularly "low end."

The week after that, I'm backstage at yet anther large professional conference processing HD footage for the iMag systems via FCP-X then giving them the content for delivery to a global audience in near real time via the web.

Not much of the stuff I'm around that X works superbly for seems particularly "low end" to me.

After all, given a great word processor, whether you're writing a grocery list or a technical white paper is kinda irrelevant.

What matters is first does the word processor work reliably - second and most important - can you write!

YMMV.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 8:59:56 pm

Gee Bill, you're feeling defensive today. I am NOT a critic of X and do NOT accuse the app of being suited only for low-end use. I hope everybody uses it and makes the NYU Tisch film school look silly by abandoning FCP.

My point was regarding the use of USB3 portable drives as part of a quick & dirty mobile setup. This has been working for me on my teaching and post-to-vimeo projects, which qualify as "low end" compared to the Red and Alexa workflows you're talking about.

That doesn't mean I am dismissing X or relegating it to hobby usage; it just means my example of using USB3 drives is admittedly a light-duty one, and I cannot speak for using those drives for high data rates. I've never tried it.

To paraphrase Leslie Nielsen, "Don't call me silly." :-)

Doug D


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Bill Davis
Re: update
on Jan 18, 2014 at 12:58:45 am

Doug,

Look, I didn't write your post, you did.

Here it is in full....

"Thanks, Lance. That is good news, especially for the cheap on-the-road set-up, e.g. a MBPr 13" with FCPX installed, an iPhone or DSLR, or even a little HandyCam ... and a cheap USB 3 portable drive, for quick shoot-to-edit-to upload to Vimeo or YouTube..

This is obviously the low-end use of FCPX as discussed often on this forum, and it works well, especially when I take my high school students on location for a quick lesson.

Doug D"

I think it paints a crystal clear vision of X as a tool.

The word-cloud of your post would include cheap, cheap again, low-end, and high school students - pretty much the space that iMovie still exists to address. You may not "think" about X that way - but you did write about it that way.

And as such, I think it mis-represents FCP-X as a tool pretty seriously in a forum where people come to learn about it. .

I can easily believe that misrepresenting it wasn't your actual intent. But it was the effect of the actual words you wrote, IMO. And so I tried to correct the record that will live in this thread long after we've all forgotten about it.

Simple.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: update
on Jan 18, 2014 at 5:01:42 am

Bill:

You're right, I didn't mean to misrepresent X for people who come to the forum un-initiated. Sorry about the cloudiness of the word-cloud.

We have discussed using X with high school students in the past. This IS a low-end application of the app, in that they don't introduce pro cameras and don't output to an audio team, an effects group and so on. And it is usually cheap, in that the school has cheap cameras, and most students like to work with phones and cameras they have at home. And my discussion was about how THAT whole set-up works well with inexpensive USB 3 pocket drives, which many students happen to have access to.

In other words, these kids needn't be intimidated by endless web forums on Canon C300s and C500s, $20K zoom lenses, Creative Suites, Avids, Resolve and Thunderbolt RAID. In fact, they can start out with the family DSLR or their phone, a $300 pro editing app, a laptop and a USB3 drive ... and get professional-looking results.

But I NEVER meant to suggest X should exist only in that space. I would never denigrate X. It is the full-on pro app we all love. It is my favorite and only working NLE for pro documentary work.

Many students have seen and used iMovie, and can't wait to get away from it - the free app for "my Dad's home movies." They all want to work in FCPX BECAUSE of their perception it IS a pro app. Students come back from Christmas proudly showing off the copy of FCPX they received as a gift, now installed on their laptops, so they can shoot and edit away from class and really make progress.

I am happy to be giving them a relatively painless entry into an app that can take them all the way to professional work, if they so desire.

Speaking to the forum topic "FCPX or Not" -- I love X for the robust, pro app that will handle 4K, SAN, broadcast and feature work ... but can also work out of the box, out of a back-pack, with a friendly interface and structure that allows future filmmakers to dive in and create, from day one.

I tell them that unlike iMovie, they won't grow out of X, they will grow up and IN to its full potential.

Doug D


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Steve Connor
Re: update
on Jan 18, 2014 at 8:22:12 am

Doug, I think most people understood what you were saying and it wasn't a classification of FCPX as a low end tool.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Bret Williams
Re: update
on Jan 19, 2014 at 8:31:03 pm

My little toshiba usb3 drive reads 110mb/sec. Most of my others are in the 60-80mb/sec range. 110/mb sec is in the same territory as my esata graid, and better than fw800 easily. It wasn't that long ago we were editing DVCproHD 720p24 off FW400/800 and thought that was awesome.


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Douglas K. Dempsey
Re: update
on Jan 20, 2014 at 3:34:11 am

Cool. I've been using GRaid Mini with Tbolt-to-FW adapter and doing alright, but interested in specific Toshiba drive you're using. Pocket-type drive or larger?

Doug D


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Bret Williams
Re: update
on Jan 20, 2014 at 4:14:30 am

Cheap little plastic 500gb usb3 drive from costco. One day I ran it and a bunch of other drives through bmds speed test app and it consistently got 100-110. Not sure if I'd do any editing on it for long. Not sure about the durability of those things. But much faster than even my Lacie rugged 1tb usb3/esata model, or the WD or g drive. I found these old screen shots. I kept them because I remember how much of a difference the little toshiba was. And it was like 80 bucks or something a year ago. The other drives were pretty consistently less as you see. Fluke maybe?





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Jeremy Garchow
Re: update
on Jan 20, 2014 at 5:08:37 pm

Here's what I am getting from the OWC enclosure. They also make smaller 2.5" versions as well.

(image)



Jeremy


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Bret Williams
Re: update
on Jan 20, 2014 at 5:19:33 pm

Here's the NewerTech Guardian USB 3 setup as mirrored. So it's really just a single USB 3 drive. I've seen it get 170 before it was now half full. I've got 2 Seagate 3TB drives inside. Not their high end ones. I just use this enclosure to for iPhoto, iTunes, and project archives. I'm on a late 2012 iMac with all the upgrades and 32gigs. This enclosure has everything but thunderbolt. It has FW800, FW400, eSATA and USB 3. Love it. Never a problem.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: update
on Jan 20, 2014 at 5:25:46 pm

I think we can all agree that USB3 is doing pretty well!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 6:49:54 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "You were told wrong about USB 3 - it is full duplex - meaning bi-directional transfers at full speed just like firewire and unlike USB 2 and earlier."

Ah ha. Good to know.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 6:49:33 pm

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "Re: USB 3, I was told the one downside was the fact that it's not full duplex, so while great for a read OR write, less than perfect for constant read/write that happens during editing."

I've always heard that USB is no good either, and USB and Macs up until this point has been a pretty dubious connection. The intel USB3 implementation seems to be pretty good, fast, and different than shitty Apple USB2.

I've been testing it with mobile editing on a new laptop, and it does just fine with 1080 to 4k ProRes/XAVC.

[Douglas K. Dempsey] "I am assuming a single FCPX user, external drive with media. Where do you keep projects/events library, relative to original or optimized media?"

I keep certain Libraries on the boot drive (which is the Apple PCIe SSD) and some on the external drive, it really depends on what i need to do.

When I'm at the studio and editing SAN, everything is on the SAN, nothing is on the boot or external as I copy it all back to the SAN (or have a dupe set of media on the SAN and copy the Library and relink).

Jeremy


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Kannan Raghavan
Re: update
on Jan 20, 2014 at 1:04:44 am

Hi Jeremy. Just curious, what USB3 drive are you using for your edits?

Kannan Raghavan
The Big Toad Films Pte. Ltd.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: update
on Jan 20, 2014 at 1:20:30 am

I have an OWC enclosure with a combination of Seagate and Western Digital drives.

Usb3, FireWire 800, and esata all in one swappable rig.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/1394/USB/EliteAL/eSATA_FW800_FW400_...

DITs in my area use these a lot and have had great success with them in the field, and they connect to all manner of machine.


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Mitch Ives
Re: update
on Jan 20, 2014 at 6:55:06 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Douglas K. Dempsey] "Re: USB 3, I was told the one downside was the fact that it's not full duplex, so while great for a read OR write, less than perfect for constant read/write that happens during editing."

I've always heard that USB is no good either, and USB and Macs up until this point has been a pretty dubious connection. The intel USB3 implementation seems to be pretty good, fast, and different than shitty Apple USB2.

I've been testing it with mobile editing on a new laptop, and it does just fine with 1080 to 4k ProRes/XAVC."


That stems back to the way USB was initially designed. Using an oversimplification, USB moved data in "Buckets" while FW was a continuous stream. That's why FW was preferred. Anyone using early USB drives experienced the inconsistent delivery of higher demands of video. Great for backing up files though.

Obviously USB has improved, and USB3 is seriously useful. Being bi-directional (as Lance pointed out) is just one of the reasons...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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tony west
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 6:43:27 pm

Also just a heads up, the drive I moved the Library to is one of my mac pros internal drives and things are fast and snappy.

I'm thinking from now on I might start all new projects on my internal drives until I upgrade my computer.

I have been cutting my doc on a LaCie fw-800 drive to this point with no problems.

That's kind of why the G-tech drive threw me.


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Bret Williams
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 8:38:12 pm

Well your internals are sata. Probably 120mb/sec. Fw800 is 70mb/sec. But even so I'm not sure why you were getting beach balling.


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Bill Davis
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 8:45:40 pm

Pure speculation - but 10.1 (and 10.1.1) seem to me to be working just like X always has in a sense.

I load up the new software. There's a day or two of things being slow and delayed. Then over maybe a week, things start working faster and faster and smoother and smoother.

I wonder if X works with a lot of caching and lookup tables that make the things you do most often - faster - as you do more of them. Kinda like how the web watches your patterns and caches the most visited websites and stuff, making your web browsing snappier when you're using your frequently visited sites.

It IS a database after all. The ability to move "frequently used data" into higher priority caches seems like a no brainer in a design sense.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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willy pimentel
Re: update
on Jan 17, 2014 at 6:14:22 pm

We have four drives unusable.. Two were repaired and returned. I just gave up

Willy Pimentel
Motion Graphics Editor/VIz Artist/Trio/Camera Director - Univision NY
Macbook Pro 2011 thunderbolt/ TBolt Display/ 2 SSD Hds /Lacie Tbolt


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