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Shane Ross
Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 14, 2014 at 7:57:51 pm

…just in time as 3D TVs are going the way of the dodo.

http://www.macnn.com/articles/14/01/14/iphone.tech.could.change.interface.f...

Apple a bit behind the times on this one...missed the bus. The bus that ran out of gas a few miles down the road...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Darren Roark
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 14, 2014 at 9:22:59 pm

[Shane Ross] "…just in time as 3D TVs are going the way of the dodo. "

80% of Gravity's domestic box office was from 3D. When it's done that well people will still go to the theater and put on the stupid glasses. 3D isn't going away.


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Shane Ross
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 14, 2014 at 9:26:47 pm

3D in theaters...I still see. Now...how many features like GRAVITY...ANY features really...will be edited with FCX? Personally I think that with tapeless footage like RED, FCX would be a perfectly fine option. But the feature editors might balk...the studios REALLY would balk.

Only a matter of time I suppose...but knowing that a vast majority of FCX users aren't cutting 3D feature films...and 3D TV networks are vanishing, 3D TVs never took off...and 3D computer displays don't really exist...and when FCX does venture into features, it might be about 2-3 films a year...maybe... what's the point of 3D in FCX now? If features is the ONLY market for it?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Marcus Moore
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 14, 2014 at 9:42:49 pm
Last Edited By Marcus Moore on Jan 14, 2014 at 9:43:06 pm

Just like with ANY supposed Apple leaks based on patent submissions, take these with a grain of salt.

A company as large as Apple patents everything pre-emptively, but it's no indication of what they will or won't bring to market.

If you read the article, the patent was first applied for in 2010, a year before X even came to market. And while you can't infer ANYTHING from patent drawings, the iconography is certainly more 7 than X oriented.



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Darren Roark
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 14, 2014 at 11:04:07 pm

[Shane Ross] "what's the point of 3D in FCX now? If features is the ONLY market for it?"

I have been occasionally cutting 3D since FCP 6 using Dashwood's plugins. Lately it's been with a 23" HP 3D computer monitor I bought for $150 on clearance from Newegg. (You are right, they even are clearing out the cheap TVs.)

There are more indie features being cut in FCP X, along with some 3D shorts so far. This infographic on the projected budgets on the four thousand features submitted to Sundance this year alone totals over three BILLION dollars. So that's four thousand indies being made fighting for one hundred and nineteen slots in the festival. That's a lot of potential future customers who may not care what they cut with.

http://www.culturalweekly.com/sundance-infographic-2014/

Sadly I think that post converted 3D is going to be the way forward knowing how much work goes into fixing natively shot stereo pairs. Sometimes (tragically) the editors don't even know they are cutting a film that would be post converted to 3D. (World War Z as an example) Fixing 3D pairs in the NLE is going to be less of a thing.

Premiere and Avid having native 3D capabilities have that advantage. There are many low budget indies shooting in native 3D so I'm sure it's worth Apple's time to add that feature if it can sway any future 3D films away from Adobe and Avid.


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Shane Ross
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 14, 2014 at 11:40:44 pm

All I'm pointing out is that 3D distribution is dwindling. TV sets are do longer made, computer displays aren't either. No 3D YouTube, 3D Vimeo...3D DVD. So the only realm for it, besides those who ALREADY own those TVs and displays...is feature films That's a very small market...and we know, given history, what Apple thinks of the small market share.

Shane
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Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Darren Roark
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 15, 2014 at 1:12:37 am
Last Edited By Darren Roark on Jan 15, 2014 at 10:13:06 pm

[Shane Ross] "All I'm pointing out is that 3D distribution is dwindling. TV sets are do longer made, computer displays aren't either. No 3D YouTube, 3D Vimeo...3D DVD."

I completely agree with all of that here in the US. Watching 3D on a 50" TV with the glasses doesn't make the slight 3D effect you get worth the hassle is part of why it's going away in the home.

3D is even slowing a bit in Asia, but only a little. In 2012, of their approximately 23,000 digital theater screens, over 14,000 of them were 3D, the rest in 2D. The newest studies are showing that 3D is becoming less important to moviegoers over there, but only slightly. They are still making a ton of 3D films and one of the main incentives for post converting Hollywood films is that they are much more profitable than the 2D version. Especially in countries where piracy is an out of control problem, (Russia, China, India) 3D does better there as the experience cannot be replicated in the home with a bad quality bootleg.

The main reason I think it's going away is that most 3D produced in the past six years is terrible. It's either hastily post converted or poorly shot. I would prefer decent 2D over bad 3D any day and most people are getting wise to it.

I believe with this latest version Apple is going after the feature market again as they will want to sell as many Mac Tubes™ as they can. Adding 3D shouldn't be too tough for them considering a $99 plugin can do it already.



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Bill Davis
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 15, 2014 at 8:37:01 pm

Hi Shane,

Your arguments make perfect sense from the perspective of the broadcast and home living room "TV" markets - but misses that video is useful way beyond these boundaries.

I've often mentioned remote SURGERY as an example of where a system of 3D video transmission might be a true game-changer for that endeavor.

And it goes way beyond that. Think of manufacturing, real estate, aviation training, there are lots of fields which could benefit from capturing and being able to calculate or manipulate depth filed data via video recording and playback. And obviously if you have such video streams - you'll need tools to edit the content.

I agree that HOME 3D TV is very much a "niche" deal. What's not niche is thinking beyond the entertainment industry to how video might work in other areas.

In some, 3D might well be a very, very technology to pursue.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Shane Ross
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 15, 2014 at 8:53:27 pm

[Bill Davis] "Think of manufacturing, real estate, aviation training, there are lots of fields which could benefit from capturing and being able to calculate or manipulate depth filed data via video recording and playback."

Played back on what? The 3D TVs that are being discontinued? 3D computer displays with the same fate? I understand the potential of 3D in those areas, but when the ways to view this footage is going away...what's the point of shooting it?

I can see some company staying in the specialty markets for 3D TVs or displays...possibly...to fulfill those needs. A very niche market still. Even more niche than broadcast if you ask me.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 16, 2014 at 5:52:54 pm

[Shane Ross] "Played back on what?"

Likely an industry commercialized version of something like the Occulus Rift.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 15, 2014 at 9:54:19 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Jan 15, 2014 at 9:57:13 pm

[Bill Davis] "I've often mentioned remote SURGERY as an example of where a system of 3D video transmission might be a true game-changer for that endeavor.

And it goes way beyond that. Think of manufacturing, real estate, aviation training, there are lots of fields which could benefit from capturing and being able to calculate or manipulate depth filed data via video recording and playback. And obviously if you have such video streams - you'll need tools to edit the content."


Bill, you make good points about the use of streaming 3D content, this is an area that's been growing rapidly for nearly a decade. But it's gone way beyond 3D capture for 2D/3D VOD. Now, the really interesting stuff is in 3D capture and realtime interactivity. I've seen some truly amazing industry demonstrations of real shipping applications in the past five years, but I can't talk about them (unfortunately). But here are some very cool things that are being done today (mind you, this is still 2D viewing):

http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/default.aspx?id=159629

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/2010/12/27/uw-researchers-using-kinect-...

http://health.sunnybrook.ca/?s=kinect

http://www.avanade.com/advisor/kinect/pages/kinect.aspx

Back on topic, I think Shane is correct. 3D video for home entertainment is dead. 3D transmission is also dead, so I imagine only a handful of feature editors even care about being able to 3D content.

Shawn



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Thomas Frank
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 16, 2014 at 3:41:43 pm

[Shane Ross] "All I'm pointing out is that 3D distribution is dwindling. TV sets are do longer made, computer displays aren't either. No 3D YouTube, 3D Vimeo...3D DVD. So the only realm for it, besides those who ALREADY own those TVs and displays...is feature films That's a very small market...and we know, given history, what Apple thinks of the small market share."
Why you say that, 3D ist still being pushed on the market. I bet we will see another big push of 3D when 4K is ready and running in homes. Yup



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James Culbertson
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 15, 2014 at 9:54:37 pm

[Darren Roark] "80% of Gravity's domestic box office was from 3D. When it's done that well people will still go to the theater and put on the stupid glasses. 3D isn't going away."

I watched Gravity in 3D. It kind of reminds me of watching a video game.

I think I will avoid 3D for another couple of years until they improve the process to the extent that it does not distract from the actual film story.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 14, 2014 at 9:37:05 pm

Check this out:
http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=08631047&PageNum=33

It's FCP Legend!

I'm going to have to give this one a read. I'm quite curious to see what's novel in it.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Darren Roark
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 15, 2014 at 10:21:07 pm

This article in Variety today made me laugh with the timing. "3D TV: Not Dead Yet, and Getting Better" comparing it to 'the ailing old man in the “Bring out your dead” scene in “Monty Python and the Holy Grail,” who protests to the corpse collector, “I’m not dead. … I’m getting better.”

variety.com/2014/digital/columns/3d-tv-not-dead-yet-and-getting-better-1201055163/

The autostereo tvs are improving, but it's going to create a whole new set of problems with he fact that standard left right stereo pairs will need to be post converted for the new screens. It will be interesting to see what the process will be to convert content in the next two years before the first sets come out.

The 3DTV parrot isn't dead, it's just resting.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Apple patents 3D editing...
on Jan 15, 2014 at 11:14:16 pm

With all the mention of Gravity it should be pointed out that this was shot 2D and converted later. For the edit there would have been little need for 3D capability for the edit.

I think this patent was applied for when the industry got excited by Avatar plus Apple and others desire to patent everything that may or may not be possible just in case.


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