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Buggy Wuggy

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tony west
Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 4:01:32 pm

The 10.1 update for me has been a stability nightmare.

It's laggy on the simplest edits, beach balling all over the place.

When I look around other forums there is a lot of frustration about this from people using X on different work stations and across the board complaints about how flakey it's been acting.

There are little annoying things like the thumbnails for projects showing up blank here and there.

Almost every topic on the techniques forum since the update seems to be about bugs.

I guess I'm just curious why there is not more talk or frustration abut this topic on this forum.

One of my favorite things about X has been how fast I could get things done with it.
With this update, that' gone.


I don't see how anybody who is actually doing projects on X 10.1 day in and day out is not seeing this.

New features are all well and good but it doesn't help me while I'm watching the spinning ball.

Sorry guys, I'm just ticked off : /


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 4:17:53 pm

My experience so far has been very good. I upgraded to 10.1 as soon as it was out, and after upgrading projects and events I kept working full time on two important current projects, that by the way should be quite difficult for my machine to deal with, with a dozen libraries open at the same time, each containing multiple events and hundreds of clips from many years of shooting, all without transcoding but dealing with original AVCHD and HDV files. I found the new version to be faster and more stable, with much less spinning beach ball showing on the very same projects. It does get a bit slow and less reactive after some hours of editing, but less than it used to be with the previous release.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy
early 2008 MacPro, BM Intensity Pro, early 2008 iMac, 2011 MacBook Pro, FCP7, FCPX, OSX 10.8.3


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Steve Connor
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 4:24:47 pm

Did you do a fresh install of FCPX? is the problem on new or upgraded projects? I had a similar issue on an upgrade install but it went away after a fresh one.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 4:45:33 pm

I agree with Steve.

There seems to be a lot of weird things happening with upgraded Mavericks installs.

Performance wise, this update has been great for me, even on the same hardware.

I used to get many more beach balls and stalls, now I don't.

On brand new hardware, performance is even better.

At the very least, a few folks around here have said that creating a new user has helped with oddities. It's worth checking out and relatively easy to do.

Or, taking the time to build a Mavericks system from a fresh install will serve you better in the long run, if it hasn't been done already.

Also, be sure App Nap is off.

Jeremy


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Gary Huff
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 5:01:17 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Or, taking the time to build a Mavericks system from a fresh install will serve you better in the long run, if it hasn't been done already."

I am on nMBPr with Mavericks (which came installed), and 10.1 has been okay, but I'm currently working on a project that is largely XF codec from the XF305, and it's performance is lackluster at best. I constantly have to render every time I do anything, even as simple as using a text overlay effect from FCPXs built-in effects. Very annoying.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 5:18:25 pm

I would optimize the media. That codec is the perfect candidate for it.


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 8:02:27 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Also, be sure App Nap is off.

Jeremy
"


Thanks for this heads up also Jeremy


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 7:55:45 pm

[Steve Connor] "Did you do a fresh install of FCPX? is the problem on new or upgraded projects? I had a similar issue on an upgrade install but it went away after a fresh one.
"


I have had the problems on old projects and new ones. I'm gonna take your advice and try a fresh install.

Fabrizio is running the same machine I am and it's smooth for him so I should be able to get the same results.


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Greg Penetrante
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 5:06:08 pm

Tony,

My sympathies to you, man. But FCPX 10.1 has been like a rocket to me since the update. I used to launch CS6 and now I look forward to working with 10.1. This is on a Mac Pro 2008. Multicam used to dog slow and now it flies. Even my clients have seen much improvements in their speed and workflow.

Something else must be amiss with your install or hardware. Try working with projects on a different drive to see if that makes a difference, As Jeremy suggested try a fresh install...

best regards,
Greg



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Bret Williams
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 5:25:26 pm

I'm still looking for all these bug reports. Solid as a rock for me. I see a few posts that are corrupt Mavericks user folders , but that's a mavericks thing. Lots of those because people were forced to update I guess. Lots of issues with people screwing media management up because they didn't read the release notes, white paper, or Hodgett's or ripple training's article(s).


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 8:06:22 pm

[Bret Williams] "Lots of issues with people screwing media management up"

Bret, wouldn't this pertain more so to updated projects that you were brining over from the last version?

How could this explain a fresh new project started in 10.1?


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Bret Williams
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 12:52:57 am

Sure. Where are all these bugs ? I'm looking through the posts.


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 5:07:16 am

Here are some folks talking about the same thing I was


"FCPX 10.1 Very slow on iMac and lots of spinning beach balls"


https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5691549?start=45&tstart=0


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Bret Williams
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 2:44:00 pm

I looked through that and there appeared to be two issues being repeated.

1. People have merged all their projects and events into one big library because they don't understand 10.1 media management

2. They have a corrupt user folder from the Mavericks install.

Neither are FCP bugs.


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 4:50:18 pm

[Bret Williams] " People have merged all their projects and events into one big library because they don't understand 10.1 media management"

Bret,

What is the official quantity/size limit for timelines and media in FCPX libraries?

Franz.


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Bret Williams
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 5:15:11 pm

How would I know? Probably depends on your RAM, your processor, etc. But I'm reading about a lot of spinning beach balls where people have just installed 10.1 and let FCP X upgrade their entire library of events and projects into one huge project. I think it's pretty sad that Apple didn't run us through some specific procedure to link specific projects to events and make them into libraries. But it seems fairly obvious one of the reasons for libraries was that Apple was unable to get it to perform well enough when all your projects and events were loaded at the same time, so that's why they came up with their own idea to replace event manager X. Along the way they threw in the ability to keep the media managed externally to better facilitate sharing and keep duplication to a minimum. But in the Apple way, to have the upgrade itself describe this and assist you in all this would be some sort of admission of defeat, so they just upgraded all the projects and events (on a per drive basis) to one big library. Probably making the problem worse because before people were using event manager X to to mount and unmount. Now they're just loading them all.

I think the reason they got rid of scrubbing projects was part of the problem too. Memory/resource hog. Neat trick though. But the fact that you had to actually highlight a project before scrubbing was always a tell tale sign to me that they were trying to limit just how much was loaded in memory.

In Premiere or legacy you certainly wouldn't even dream of opening all the projects at once. Any nle would likely bog down. Throw in X's unique thumbnails and scrubbing which all has to get cached into RAM or somewhere and it's a bigger problem. My events show as a single thumbnail for each clip or list view. And I don't use any thumbnails in the timeline FWIW.

My mavericks is an upgrade, and I had problems with my user folder with 10.0.9. I created a new user and all was well. Then the upgrade to FCP X 10.1 went effortlessly.

It seems there is definitely an issue with user corruption in the mavericks upgrade, which is why a clean install of mavericks is a sure fix. But for me a new admin user worked fine.


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 5:55:01 pm
Last Edited By tony west on Jan 14, 2014 at 3:06:27 pm

[Bret Williams] "But I'm reading about a lot of spinning beach balls where people have just installed 10.1 and let FCP X upgrade their entire library of events and projects into one huge project."

this is not what I did, and I didn't really have problems updating my older projects.

What frustrated me enough to write this post was I was working on a new project.


New Library

New footage

New project

Nothing to "upgrade" So I don't know what upgrading an old project has to do with my New project.

As I started working on the new project the edits were slow and laggy

I'm not saying that people didn't do what you described I'm just saying that's not what my specific problem was. (while I did link you to folks complaining about a different problem of lagging )

Started working again this morning on a snapshot project. It was spinning. Looked back at the project that I took the snapshot from and it played fine. hummmmmmmm

Quit X, copied the Library to another drive and so far both projects are fine.

Not sure why one project played fine and the other didn't. They are using the same media.


I have been on X since the beginning and have never had a problem with updates in the past.

People are talking about clean installs and that's great,

just saying.............I never bothered with a clean install in the past and never had a problem so if this update *requires* a clean install that would be a first for me.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 6:06:03 pm

[tony west] "just saying.............I never bothered with a clean install in the past and never had a problem so if this update *requires* a clean install that would be a fist for me."

This is also the first FCPX that has required a new OS before you could even install it.

Mavericks, even in non FCPX users, seems to be happiest with a clean install.

Clean installs are never fun, but the AppStore and Creative Cloud makes things a lot easier.

Plugins, third party extensions, etc, are the harder parts.

For the most part, from what I have seen and read, FCPX 10.1 performance is better pretty much across the board.

If there's something feels different with your system after moving to 10.1, and FCP 10.1 is running worse than 10.0, I'd take a look at trying a clean install.

It sucks, but it might be worth it.

Jeremy


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 6:21:19 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This is also the first FCPX that has required a new OS before you could even install it."

Good point J


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Bret Williams
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 6:26:26 pm

Did you try a new user yet? That seems to accomplish the same thing as a clean install. I forget, did you update to Mavericks at 10.0.9 or just recently with 10.1?


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 14, 2014 at 1:38:59 am

[Bret Williams] "Did you try a new user yet? That seems to accomplish the same thing as a clean install. I forget, did you update to Mavericks at 10.0.9 or just recently with 10.1?
"


Sorry Bret I have not had a chance, I got called into work today. I appreciate your help and tips though brother.


I did update to Mavericks and that seemed to go OK, then I updated to 10.1 after organizing my folders.

My snapshot projects seems to be still working fine now since I copied it to another drive.

I do like that snapshot feature BtW


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Jack Zahran
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 10:28:40 pm

In the Apps/Utility folder, start the program called Console. Select the Clear the Display button. Then start FCP X 10.1. Each time a beach ball starts, go back to Console and select the "Insert Marker" button.

Save a copy of the Console message list using the "File-Save a Copy as..." option.

Feel free to post the console log. I'd be happy to analyze it for you.


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 14, 2014 at 1:40:20 am

Hey thanks Jack

Awesome : )


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David Mathis
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 6:17:03 pm

Smooth sailing here. The only real issue I have encountered is a long render time for the Boris CC film effect. Everything else goes much faster. Noticed the same thing in Motion as well so it could be the effect itself or I am missing some setting.

I find that 10.1 is much faster, more responsive and much more stable. Motion does have its occasional moment but seems to improved there as well.

I will say that Final Cut Pro launches must faster than Premiere Pro even thought about. Of course being on an older version might be why this is.


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David Powell
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 12, 2014 at 7:10:25 pm

Been having the same problem, the timeline indicator gets stuck every time I back it up on the transport and try to go forward. Its like a one second delay, making trimming a nightmare. I think writing and trading preferences helps. Why this is always necessary with fcp is a mystery.


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tony west
Re: Buggy Wuggy update
on Jan 12, 2014 at 11:33:09 pm

OK, thanks to Jeremy's tip I turned off that App Nap and so far it's running a lot better.

It seems crazy to me that could have had that much of an impact on the performance.


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Dave Gage
Re: Buggy Wuggy update
on Jan 12, 2014 at 11:42:10 pm

[tony west] "OK, thanks to Jeremy's tip I turned off that App Nap and so far it's running a lot better.
It seems crazy to me that could have had that much of an impact on the performance."


Wouldn't ya think that maybe in the in the next release, 10.1.1, that Apple would have this off by default for this app. I'm still at 10.0.x, but have already read numerous times where people have had this problem in the new Mavericks/10.1 combo. Was this ever mentioned in the White Papers or a similar release by Apple?


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Bret Williams
Re: Buggy Wuggy update
on Jan 13, 2014 at 1:22:13 am

I have app napp off for After Effects too, but the other night I had a 4 hr render going. At 3 hrs my system went to sleep and the render just paused. WTH? I've been using AE since 1996 and the computer should never go to sleep when it's cranking out a 7 core render. Seems like it's pretty busy!


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Oliver Peters
Re: Buggy Wuggy update
on Jan 13, 2014 at 1:51:12 pm

I've generally updated all OS changes, but after doing a completely clean install with Mavericks, I'm a convert to the school of thought that says you should do a clean install with every full 10.x update. There's just a lot of stuff that gets rearranged in the new OS version, leaving a lot of orphaned files scattered throughout your system.

I realize that this isn't always practical. As I posted before, I did a Mavericks update on a Mac Pro and FCP X 10.1 still had some issues. These were fixed by trashing the contents of the User Library/Preferences/ByHost folder (make sure you get any lock files). This fixed the issues I was having.

So far on two different Mac Pros (1 clean install, 1 update install) FCP X 10.1 has been pretty solid. The only issues I see are the persistent stickiness in going between the event browser and the timeline and sometimes not having the viewer correctly latch onto the right source. This has always been there. Otherwise, a major improvement for me.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Buggy Wuggy update
on Jan 13, 2014 at 4:58:04 pm

[Dave Gage] "Wouldn't ya think that maybe in the in the next release, 10.1.1, that Apple would have this off by default for this app. I'm still at 10.0.x, but have already read numerous times where people have had this problem in the new Mavericks/10.1 combo. Was this ever mentioned in the White Papers or a similar release by Apple?"

That would mean Apple would have to issue white paper for every app it makes.

I think there is still onus on a user to tune their system.

The energy saving preferences have changed a bit in Mavericks systems with newer hardware (the Control Panel has different options with new vs old hardware). The Energy Saver Panel is one of the first places I visit when setting up a new machine. I have always done this, Mavericks is no different.

There's no way that Apple can guess what each user's needs and power requirements will be, so they put on a lot of the power saving options to save battery life. We, as "power users" have to undo a lot of those.

App Nap does not have it's own control panel, however, so that one has to be learned the hard way. I happened to learn just be reading from other people's experiences with it.

Here are some other power saving technologies Apple is employing in Mavericks: http://www.apple.com/osx/advanced-technologies/

Jeremy


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Dave Gage
Re: Buggy Wuggy update
on Jan 14, 2014 at 5:18:07 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "That would mean Apple would have to issue white paper for every app it makes.
I think there is still onus on a user to tune their system."


For something like App Nap which clearly can affect higher end programs with rendering/ long Saves/Exports, something should be mentioned somewhere. There could at least there could be a one-time nag screen that pops up the first time you launch FCPX (and even Compressor and Motion) suggesting you turn off the "App Nap". Imagine all the less sophisticated first time users with a new computer and constant beach balls thinking that this Apple editing program is really slow and sucks. This couldn't be done for any apps that Apple doesn't make like the CC Suite, but it would be nice for their own programs.

[Jeremy Garchow] "App Nap does not have it's own control panel, however, so that one has to be learned the hard way. I happened to learn just be reading from other people's experiences with it."

Maybe it should have a control panel so that it could be globally turned off if desired by a user trying to tune their system. I learned about App Nap like you did. But, I gave up years ago being an early adopter, so I'm taking notes now and hopefully when I get to upgrade time, it won't be too bad.

Dave


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Keith Koby
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 2:10:37 pm

We haven't found anything wrong with fcpx - just trying to master the new world of mavericks on the san...

As a matter of fact, we're finding nice "bug" fixes. One huge issue for us in the past was the lack of text formatting information support in fcpxml in the past. Happy to see that fixed. It's a great way to pass graphic builds between editors as a starting point for new projects. Making compound clips and distributing them in an xml is better than motion generator templates in some ways (contain audio and you can trim, not retime, trim compounds, and I don't need to install the generator in ~/Movies/whatever...).

One thing I do miss is scrubbing through projects in the project library. I wish that "closed" projects could be scrubbed in their new event home.


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Rhett Murphy
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 13, 2014 at 1:51:49 pm

When I initially upgraded to Mavericks, FCPX 10.0.9 was sluggish -- very sluggish. After pushing live projects through their edits, I did a clean install of Mavericks (I'm on a Mac Pro with an SSD for OS and apps) before upgrading to FCPX 10.1. Was a bit a work, but things are fast and smooth. No problems and happy.

Rhett Murphy
REDWHOOSH PRODUCTIONS
BALTIMORE, MD


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David Mathis
Re: Buggy Wuggy
on Jan 14, 2014 at 1:25:49 am

Same here. I also like the ability to hide projects I do not need to see directly inside the software. I expect this software will improve even further. Current version seems much more responsive and stable. I did a clean install just to head off any gremlins that decide to create chaos, so far everything is working like it should.


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