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It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

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Aindreas Gallagher
It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 3, 2014 at 9:16:39 pm

The king is dead... no wait..

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2014/01/a-year-in-software-releases/

"57 releases for Final Cut Pro X apps, including two new apps: Producer’s Best Friend and Change List X, with the rest being updates.

But there were also 13 updates to our various Final Cut Pro 6/7 apps.
Our Final Cut Pro 7 apps are selling in roughly the same numbers as they did before the release of Final Cut Pro X.
For us, Final Cut Pro X and Premiere Pro, have been additional business.



I mean come on that is insane - great news for hodgetts as he has three businesses to tend to, but seriously? Isn't that mental? its 2014 for gods sake. the thing hasn't been updated for half a decade.

cue scene:

the universe, pleading arms wide: come on, look, please? it's been EOL for nearly three years, the quicktime foundations are falling apart, it can address 2.5 GB of ram for gods sake. what are you playing at?

improbable number of editors across the globe: you can sod. right. off. mate. she is staying right here on my little dock. don't test me.

seriously - hands up who has taken FCP7 off their dock?

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Shane Ross
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 3, 2014 at 9:56:57 pm

I still use it. I have clients still cutting on it, so I use it when onlining. And I still use COLOR too...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 3, 2014 at 10:25:02 pm

[Shane Ross] "And I still use COLOR too..."

the only part of me that cheered when FCP went down was the part that never bothered to learn Colour. I always felt bad not having learnt it.

cutting a brand film thing on 7 the last and next week.
six seasons and a movie for 7.







http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Al LeVine
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 3, 2014 at 10:48:49 pm

I cut animated shows for a network.

Our biggest shows are still cut and finished in Final Cut 7, but all new shows are getting started in Premiere CC.
I usually have both applications open at the same time.

Final Cut X doesn't seem to work well with the RADIOPLAY -> ANIMATIC -> ANIMATION workflow. We tried. We failed. But the transition from 7 to CC is slowwwww. Can't just do it overnight.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 3, 2014 at 11:43:11 pm

[Al LeVine] "Final Cut X doesn't seem to work well with the RADIOPLAY -> ANIMATIC -> ANIMATION workflow."

yeah, in as far as i was ever taught, I got taught the particulars of a radio edit for structure and timing? goes to quite a few things? more short form my way.
although the thing I'm at is at animatic stage at the mo. please god the client buys it.

I'm not saying that you can't in X (honestly) - but really and truly to god, all I want to see at the outset is a horizontal tracked timeline that contains clean, david lawrence style, universal time and logical vertical space to stack in.

that does it for me personally - it can go all kinds of places from there.
i'm not personally madly keen to initially meet secondary storylines, connected clips, auditions, roles and all the other zany kids.

I can do without it.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Daniel Frome
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 4, 2014 at 10:44:17 pm

Guilty.



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Jack Zahran
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 8, 2014 at 7:08:42 pm

What are the pain points to implementing this workflow in FCPX? (From what I can tell, Key frames will show on the timeline with the Animation Editor open and there is a built in Time code generator.)


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Christian Kinnard
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 4, 2014 at 5:13:08 pm

The rare Community reference... well played.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 5:23:12 pm

got to love it. thank god harmon is back.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Andrew Richards
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 3, 2014 at 10:51:54 pm

I was chatting with my editor friends at a New Year's party and FCP7 is very much alive an kicking all around DC. It sure looks like back in the day when there when all those old Power Mac 9600 Avids plugging along as FCP3/4/5 was coming into its own.

I thought by now we'd at least know which way the wind was blowing.

Best,
Andy


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Gabe Strong
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 3, 2014 at 10:59:10 pm

I can't stand subscriptions, so my way forward to a 'familiar' style editor is blocked. Because of
this, I have 3 NLEs on my computer FCP 7, CS6, and FCP X. I use them all, depending on
the project. Still am best when using FCP 7 as I just know how it 'thinks' and how everything
works in that suite of software. I have no plans to get rid of it anytime soon either.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Steve Connor
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 3, 2014 at 11:08:42 pm

[Gabe Strong] "I can't stand subscriptions, so my way forward to a 'familiar' style editor is blocked."

It's a shame because CC would be a very easy transition.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Chris Harlan
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 4, 2014 at 4:53:01 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "seriously - hands up who has taken FCP7 off their dock?"

Ain't taken it off the dock, BUT… I just got a new Macbook Pro and I've pretty much decided not to put it on there. Avid and CC are already there. Both are really fast on it. Still, I have it on three active machines, and I expect to continue to use it, occasionally, for some time to come. I still like to version promos on it, as I've built up some very solid shortcuts over the years. But with this new Macbook pro, I did finally have the "ah, here at last" moment. Avid and CC for me.


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nick ring
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 4, 2014 at 6:34:07 am

Similar, but different here. I was provided a new rMBP by work and installed FCPX on it. First computer in 8 years that hasn't had legacy FCP automatically installed on it. There are computers with 7 and Premiere available to me, but I haven't needed to use either. So far so good.


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Neil Patience
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 4, 2014 at 12:24:27 pm

Still in my dock and I still use it albeit less than I used to. I did my first freelance FCP7 edit in a few months just before Xmas so it is slowing down but still way from dead. Avid seems to largely have taken up the slack around here (London)

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv

8 Core MacPro, Kona 3, Tangent Wave, Mackie Universal Symphony 6.5 or MC V 7 with Symphony option. FCP7, Color, Media creation and conversion. Adobe Encore DVD creation and authoring.
i7 2.7 Gig MBP (non retina) 16Gigs Ram Blackmagic Monitor Mini Symphony 6.5 or MC v7 with Symphony option FCP7
7TB raid 5 fibre storage.


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Herb Sevush
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 4, 2014 at 9:19:59 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "seriously - hands up who has taken FCP7 off their dock?"

Still using it as my sole editing system. I'm planning on switching next spring, but the way forward is not clear yet. Even after the switch I need to have access to 7 for at least another 3 years for legacy projects.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 1:05:03 am

Not on my dock, but still in my applications folder. But with none of the supporting apps in the FCP Studio suite. No Compressor, Soundtrack pro or DVD Studio Pro.

Just FCP7 -- there to open and XML export 10+ years of legacy projects when needed.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
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Herb Sevush
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 1:49:30 pm

[David Lawrence] "Just FCP7 -- there to open and XML export 10+ years of legacy projects when needed."

What are you editing with now ?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 5:24:42 pm

He's a premiere man. Actually are you still lawrence? 6 I find a bit annoying, although I'm a pretty basic editor really.

I have strong, strong CC urges. almost jonesing at this point.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 7:00:31 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "He's a premiere man. Actually are you still lawrence? 6 I find a bit annoying, although I'm a pretty basic editor really."

Yep. I switched to Pr CS6 and haven't looked back since.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I have strong, strong CC urges. almost jonesing at this point."

Me too! - it's so good and so tempting. But I'd rather put up with the annoyances then pay rent to Adobe. Still waiting to hear about an exit strategy. Remember how they said they were working on "tweaks" to the rental plan to deal with our concerns? Still waiting...

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


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Steve Connor
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 7:17:08 pm

[David Lawrence] "[Aindreas Gallagher] "I have strong, strong CC urges. almost jonesing at this point."

Me too! - it's so good and so tempting. But I'd rather put up with the annoyances then pay rent to Adobe. Still waiting to hear about an exit strategy. Remember how they said they were working on "tweaks" to the rental plan to deal with our concerns? Still waiting...
"


What if they don't change the model just the cost?

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 8:08:18 pm

[Steve Connor] "What if they don't change the model just the cost?"

The problem is exit strategy, not cost. Tweaking the price isn't enough.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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Steve Connor
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 8:10:57 pm

[David Lawrence] "[Steve Connor] "What if they don't change the model just the cost?"

The problem is exit strategy, not cost. Tweaking the price isn't enough."


So what if they don't offer one? hard to believe they won't but it's certainly a possibility

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 8:30:39 pm

hard to say - if they're going to do anything you'd think they'll do it in the first two quarters of this year. Past that they're probably over two million and they might just try to run all the way to the end of 2015 and see about getting 3.5 to 4 million subscribers they forecast - on current terms.

Photoshop and AE are effectively feature complete at CS6 and I own that. Although if something like the warp stabiliser or the 3D camera tracker turned up in AE that would complicate things.

It's really Premiere - the consensus seems to be if FCP installs don't turn into Avid installs, they'll turn into premiere installs. That is presuming FCP7 ever dies.

If they really look like they're hellbent on it I'd maybe start a single app subscription for premiere later this year.

that said I'd be extremely nervous getting into bed with CC on any level. they are reports everywhere of it interfering with CS6 installs - and the CC apps themselves can be extremely temperamental.

I wouldn't feel at all good getting into it. Also the support is beyond a bad joke. Its pretty obvious they are running it as a non-existent service.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Dave Gage
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 9:48:48 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Also the support is beyond a bad joke. Its pretty obvious they are running it as a non-existent service."

That's been my experience with the Adobe Connect support. I thought T-Mobile support was the worst, not anymore. Escalating doesn't seem to help much either.

...and my credit card info got stolen because of them. I got a letter that stated that fact with no apology present or "hey, how about a couple of free months."


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Walter Soyka
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 2:07:50 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Photoshop and AE are effectively feature complete at CS6 and I own that. Although if something like the warp stabiliser or the 3D camera tracker turned up in AE that would complicate things."

Ae CC has a couple big features as well as a lot of little features that are huge improvements over CS6 for everyday users: C4D Lite and CINEWARE, Refine Edge and Refine Soft Matte, improvements to the Warp Stabilizer, the mask tracker, detail-preserving upscale, property linking, snapping to layer features, spring-loaded folders, automatic creation of folders for image sequences.

Ae is 20 years old and it's pretty mature, but development is still very active.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 2:53:25 am

Hey Walter, yes i know about the stuff you referenced, I follow AE pretty closely - I just don't care about them. Not the way I care about the warp stabilizer and the 3d camera tracker.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 8:55:01 pm

[Steve Connor] "So what if they don't offer one? hard to believe they won't but it's certainly a possibility"

I figure Pr CS6 will work for me for at least two more years. By then it'll be 2016 and the real CC numbers will be in. Even if Adobe hits their 2016 subscriber targets (a pretty steep bar IMHO), they're still way behind in revenue. They can't keep bleeding money forever. So once they the natural ceiling on subscriptions, how will they increase revenue?

1) They can raise prices on existing subscribers.
2) They can do fire sale give aways to try to lock in new subscribers.
3) They can try win back millions of customers like myself who refuse to rent software.

Maybe they'll do some combination of the above. I'm willing to wait and see. It's absurdly easy for them to fix this once they decide they want to.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


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Richard Herd
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 5:26:17 pm

[David Lawrence] "they're still way behind in revenue. They can't keep bleeding money forever. "

Heard this a few times now. It doesn't seem to square with the stock price (which opened the year 2014 at $58.06)? How, in your view, is this working out -- the stock price continuing to rise and they're losing revenue?


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 6:16:52 pm

[Richard Herd] "Heard this a few times now. It doesn't seem to square with the stock price (which opened the year 2014 at $58.06)? How, in your view, is this working out -- the stock price continuing to rise and they're losing revenue?"

Wall Street is a casino. Stock price often has nothing to do with revenue or profit. Look at Amazon for example - Wall Street's been cutting them slack for years as they lose money:

http://nyti.ms/1cwp73l

I think the exact same thing is happening with Adobe right now. But I predict the difference is that Wall Street will be much less patient with Adobe. As soon as Wall Street decides Adobe's subscription-only model is a bust, they'll bail. We'll have to wait a couple more years to see what happens but this is my prediction.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 7:36:13 pm

[David Lawrence] "We'll have to wait a couple more years to see what happens but this is my prediction."

Originally it was 6-months, now it's a couple of more years, then what? "Wait a decade, it'll happen."


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 10:05:09 pm

[Gary Huff] "Originally it was 6-months, now it's a couple of more years, then what? "Wait a decade, it'll happen."

I've always said this is a long game. 2016 is based on Adobe's publicly stated long-range targets.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 3:01:40 am

[David Lawrence] "2016 is based on Adobe's publicly stated long-range targets."

And if they make those targets?


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 4:16:27 am

[Gary Huff] "And if they make those targets?"

And if they don't?

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
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Richard Herd
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 11:38:03 pm

[David Lawrence] "Wall Street is a casino"

And who is the house, regarding NASDAQ: ADBE?


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 1:39:29 am

[Richard Herd] "And who is the house, regarding NASDAQ: ADBE?"

Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. NYSE: GS

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 6:50:11 pm

[Herb Sevush] "What are you editing with now ?"

Premiere Pro CS6. I really like Premiere Pro CC but I won't rent my everyday tools.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
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Mitch Ives
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 5, 2014 at 11:16:08 pm

[David Lawrence] "Premiere Pro CS6. I really like Premiere Pro CC but I won't rent my everyday tools."

You're a member of a very large club...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Craig Alan
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 6:36:28 am

Really bad in Ed circles cause there is never a sure thing about funding or when or if it will be approved. So all of a sudden you can't operate your post lab cause the rent wasn't paid? Apple had a yearly plan for all their software for ed but you got to keep your last version and when you paid the rent again the renewal was backdated to when they were due or if too much time had past you paid the 10% first time fee again. It worked well when there was a major upgrade that others had to pay for in mid-year. Since apple stopped charging for the updates they owe us a refund pro rated to when they stopped charging. Really they should have refunded the whole amount since i didn't gamble on getting updated for 1/2 year. But the point is that is one rental model.

I understand Apple wanting every one to have the latest version software that will only run on the newer computers since they sell computers. What's Adobe's logic?

I think it would be very enticing to buy the lasted version with a bonus of free upgrades for a year. Maybe a discount if you sign up in advance. And if people keep using their software they get what they get now. If folks want to opt out they are free to and keep their last version.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 4:11:56 pm

[Craig Alan] "So all of a sudden you can't operate your post lab cause the rent wasn't paid?"

If you couldn't pay the "software" rent, does that mean you also couldn't pay the electricity? Can't run your post house if your power is turned off.


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 4:36:05 pm

[Gary Huff] "If you couldn't pay the "software" rent, does that mean you also couldn't pay the electricity? Can't run your post house if your power is turned off."

Weak argument. Accounting departments don't consider software a utility.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 4:55:06 pm

[David Lawrence] "Weak argument. Accounting departments don't consider software a utility."

No, the argument is sound because it's about not having enough money to not pay the monthly fee for Creative Cloud.

Are we really trying to argue that someone would have the money for their electricity and not have the $50 per month for the software? What if we're still on the perpetual license model and you are offered a decent job putting the finishing touches on a Premiere CC project. Let's say you're on Production Premium CS5. Would you rather pass on the job instead of paying $2700 to upgrade to a mythical version of Production Premium CC, or $70 for a CC subscription for one single month?


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 5:17:14 pm

[Gary Huff] "No, the argument is sound because it's about not having enough money to not pay the monthly fee for Creative Cloud.

Are we really trying to argue that someone would have the money for their electricity and not have the $50 per month for the software?"


Wrong, Gary. Re-read @Craig Allen's post:

[Craig Alan] "Really bad in Ed circles cause there is never a sure thing about funding or when or if it will be approved."

He's not talking about cost. He's talking about how funds are approved and allocated in the department's yearly budget. Typical accounting does not treat software like a utility; no matter what Adobe wants you to believe. It's especially problematic in edu where budget for new software is never guaranteed year to year.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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facebook.com/dlawrence
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Richard Herd
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 5:32:24 pm

[David Lawrence] "problematic in edu where budget for new software is never guaranteed year to year."

Also bad to update software in the middle of a semester, when hundreds of students are working on a project. Edu software updates happen between semesters. What this means, I think, for labs is it reduces the CC incentive. Frequent (and awesome updates) are not really useful.

I have definitely noticed media students buying their own CC to finish projects "at home" (or really anywhere) rather than the post lab. Doing a bit of math, Adobe can take the hit from universities buying CC for 20 stations, if the student body is buying a license (and many many many are).


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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 5:39:30 pm

[Richard Herd] "I have definitely noticed media students buying their own CC to finish projects "at home" (or really anywhere) rather than the post lab. Doing a bit of math, Adobe can take the hit from universities buying CC for 20 stations, if the student body is buying a license (and many many many are)."

Most of what I did in school I took home because the edit lab only had the cheapest Media100 license, which meant color correction tools weren't included (save for Brightness/Contrast).


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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 5:41:08 pm

[David Lawrence] "He's talking about how funds are approved and allocated in the department's yearly budget. Typical accounting does not treat software like a utility; no matter what Adobe wants you to believe. It's especially problematic in edu where budget for new software is never guaranteed year to year."

He mentioned both "Ed circles" and then editing labs with departments. There are two different ideas there, unless only editors worth talking about work in a post-facility.

Of course, the post-facility I deal with routinely at the moment is on CC.


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Craig Alan
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 6:39:45 pm

Any student who seriously wants to engage in any learning takes the projects home with them in one form or another. And yes I believe that its to the benefit of computer companies to get students used to a certain platform and software because it will increase the odds of it becoming their platform.

I'm not saying a well managed educational system wouldn't include money to properly budget a program including keeping their computers and technology up to date. But at many sites at all levels the funding is just not there. And even when it is in theory, it is not in practice. It is put together piece meal.

You need to apply. It needs to get approved. Sometimes it goes through; sometimes it does not. Once it goes through, it needs to be spent in x amount of time. Some of it goes back into a pot for next year. Some of it is gone forever. If you take a tour of high schools and colleges you will find computer labs which are used for editing that do not have enough stations, have obsolete computers, have older software, have computers that are not optimized for the task at hand, etc. Just the same, students get introduced to the discipline. It was very common a few years back for schools to have a site license to an adobe suite. Mostly underused because most teachers have no idea how to use the software or do not have access to computers with them set up to take advantage of them. Or it was not built into the curriculum. But they were bought.

The cloud model is less popular. Personally I am still on the fence. On the one hand I think FCP X is more than adequate for students producing student projects and getting exposed to the editing process. But it is the least like other software they might like to start learning if they want to "take it home with them". All the innovation on the primary storyline was fine. But the way connected clips work is really different. Its just strange to have different basic functions work for different components of the timeline. I'm not saying its better or worse but its different and there are a lot of programs editors need to learn. Audio, color correction, other NLE programs all use tracks. I considered AVID but felt the initial learning curve was too steep - I'm talking about the browser and how it interacts with the finder on a Mac. You could just not hit the ground running with newbies to get them excited. Also there were those concerns as to its financial health. That left FCP X and Adobe. The adobe suite was very tempting. The cloud model was a deal killer. Yeah I'm only one example but its not an uncommon consideration. Even at home I would love to have the suite so I can use photoshop and after effects. But if I decide to go in a different direction I can't open my old projects? I could stop using ms office today and could open my old office projects in other programs. Adobe needs to assure us of that. And for ed circles allow us to use last year's updates until funding is available. We'll buy in again when we need to and when we have the funding. If we have 3 year old computers that are not powerful enough for the 2016 update we'll stay with 2014 update that is still working great.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Mitch Ives
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 6:24:42 pm

[Gary Huff] "If you couldn't pay the "software" rent, does that mean you also couldn't pay the electricity? Can't run your post house if your power is turned off."

Your question is theoretical, but I'll give you a real world example... even before CC. One Friday on a deadline, all of a sudden all the Adobe apps refuse to open. The message was that my trial period had ended. I didn't have a trial period, I had the purchased CD, complete with serial number. It didn't care, and any attempt at reinstalling said that I had already used the install. I couldn't uninstall it. I couldn't do anything and neither could Adobe. Their eventual solution (some days later) was to use the "challenge answer" workaround. Bottom line, it never was fixed... just patched with gaffer tape and bailing wire.

In the meantime, I had to go to another post house and borrow a suite to finish the project. You'll excuse me if I tell you that your faith in Adobe is seriously misplaced. Being screwed once was enough... I will never give them a chance to do it every month.

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 7:35:14 pm

[Mitch Ives] "You'll excuse me if I tell you that your faith in Adobe is seriously misplaced."

And I could probably find scores of stories where people had to borrow a machine because their Mac Pro or MacBook Pro went down and they weren't able to get a replacement in time.

Even under AppleCare.

But you put your trust in Apple apparently.


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Steve Connor
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 6, 2014 at 8:34:58 pm

[Gary Huff] "And I could probably find scores of stories where people had to borrow a machine because their Mac Pro or MacBook Pro went down and they weren't able to get a replacement in time.
"


Yup, hardware failure and being locked out of your own software are EXACTLY the same

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Mitch Ives
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:13:45 am

[Steve Connor] "Yup, hardware failure and being locked out of your own software are EXACTLY the same
"


Seriously? No they aren't. I have several machines. Adobe problems affect all installs.

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:17:53 am

[Mitch Ives] "[Steve Connor] "Yup, hardware failure and being locked out of your own software are EXACTLY the same"

Seriously? No they aren't. I have several machines. Adobe problems affect all installs."


I think Steve's being facetious. At least I hope he is! ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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Mitch Ives
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:34:51 am

[David Lawrence] "I think Steve's being facetious. At least I hope he is! ;)"

You're probably right... he has a dry sense of humor. I was too tired to notice that... apologies...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Steve Connor
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:19:26 pm

[Mitch Ives] "[David Lawrence] "I think Steve's being facetious. At least I hope he is! ;)"

You're probably right... he has a dry sense of humor. I was too tired to notice that... apologies...
"


Sorry it's a British thing.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Mitch Ives
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 6:10:09 pm

[Steve Connor] "Sorry it's a British thing."

Yes, and since I'm half Irish and the other half Scottish (or British depending on who you believe) I should have caught that...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 3:03:06 am

[Steve Connor] "Yup, hardware failure and being locked out of your own software are EXACTLY the same"

The end result is the same.


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Steve Connor
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 9:08:11 am

[Gary Huff] "[Steve Connor] "Yup, hardware failure and being locked out of your own software are EXACTLY the same"

The end result is the same."


As it would be if your Windows PC broke down, your Linux machine broke down, aliens invaded, etc etc

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 1:52:43 pm

[Steve Connor] "As it would be if your Windows PC broke down"

Not really, because one can easily hop over to Fry's and buy a replacement part.

Unlike if your GPU goes out on your new Mac Pro.


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Steve Connor
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:09:33 pm

[Gary Huff] "Not really, because one can easily hop over to Fry's and buy a replacement part.

Unlike if your GPU goes out on your new Mac Pro.
"


Which has SO much to do with Mitch's original point.

Steve Connor

There's nothing we can't argue about on the FCPX COW Forum


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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 8, 2014 at 12:22:42 am

[Steve Connor] "Which has SO much to do with Mitch's original point."

Well, Mitch's original point was that Adobe's activation process went screwy on him. Yes, it sucks. But would you support Adobe just removing all of that all-together? Because that's how to fix that issue.

All anti-piracy measures will screw legitimately paying customers. You either deal with it when it happens or you remove it entirely.


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 8, 2014 at 12:53:02 am

[Gary Huff] "All anti-piracy measures will screw legitimately paying customers. You either deal with it when it happens or you remove it entirely."

Some anti-piracy measures are worse than others. Adobe's are by far, the worst in the entire software industry. And BTW, they do absolutely nothing to stop piracy.

http://bit.ly/1bP3xn6

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 8, 2014 at 2:25:49 am

[David Lawrence] "Adobe's are by far, the worst in the entire software industry. And BTW, they do absolutely nothing to stop piracy."

So they should just take them all out, right?


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David Lawrence
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 8, 2014 at 6:39:33 am

[Gary Huff] "So they should just take them all out, right?"

Your words, not mine.

I think when they treat their customers with a bit more respect, their customers will respect them.

That starts by not trying to force an unwanted business model on millions of former customers who want to give them their money.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums


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Mitch Ives
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 2:12:27 am

[Gary Huff] "And I could probably find scores of stories where people had to borrow a machine because their Mac Pro or MacBook Pro went down and they weren't able to get a replacement in time.

Even under AppleCare.

But you put your trust in Apple apparently."


Bogus comparison. Most of us have more than one machine. I have four available Adobe stopped on both machines it was registered on. See the difference?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Gary Huff
Re: It. Will. Never. Ever. Die.
on Jan 7, 2014 at 3:10:02 am

[Mitch Ives] "Bogus comparison. Most of us have more than one machine. I have four available Adobe stopped on both machines it was registered on. See the difference?"

Yes, you're rich enough to afford 4 machines.


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